Hello to all.

I have some questions regarding my 97 850ci. I want to upgrade just about every part in my engine and would like to get close to 1000hp out of it. I live in Chicago and need a good place to take it. Any suggestions would be great. Or any ideas. I don't know were to begin with this so i figured to try here to start. Thanks so much

:eek: What tranny do you plan on using to hold that kind of umph?

Twin turbo. It will cost you an absolute fortune (id guess at least 30K) though as AFAIK no kits are available yet, either you or a shop will need to engineer one, including the ECU programming. Even after all that id be surprised if you could get more than 800BHP from it. Of course you will need uprated tranny and final drive not to mention brakes.

http://www.bilforumet.no/prosjektforum/142822-e-30-big-bmw-e34-v12-twin-turbo-550-twin-turbo-prosjekt-flere-filmer.html
http://youtube.com/watch?v=J_6OedKNUX8&mode=related&search=

My 2c, if you want an engine with 1K BHP, the M70 is not the best candiate in terms of value. The head and camgears are a pretty basic design its SOHC for a start with no VVT of any kind. The M70 V12 was designed to be smooth and deliver decent torque, not high peformance. I think if you want 1K BHP from an M70, you may need to look into having heads heavily modified or custom built Big, big bucks.

I would look for performance parts for the E30 325 but you have the newer M73 V12 motor so best of luck. The others have a good point in that it would cost way to much to do, probably more than $10k.

You will not pull 1000HP out of an M70 850 engine

The two questions that come to mind about 1000 HP from either an M70 or M73 V12 are:

For how long would you like to make this much HP --time in minutes would be OK :)

And how much are you willing to spend for those few minutes?

The last big HP V12 story I remember involved Lots of forced air and nitrous and lasted for only a few 1/4 mile runs before total meltdown of the motor.:(

here's an interesting thread, and its about the CSI:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-18599.html

I have a couple of contacts for manufacturing a 4 valve head and an increasement to 6.0liter on the S70 engine. The cost would be approx $50-70000-, for the initial engine and less for the following... Not sure indivdual trottles will give you any advantage as this is more an issue on high reving low volume engines. But the whole design of the S70 is torgue not HP, so I'm sure if you increase volume and RPM the intake should be changed.

Even the dinan8 is a mere 500BHP, the key is the torque.

you can only make about 650 reliable horsepower IF done right and it will last IF treated right..........hell, even the McClaren couldnt come close to 1000.........

For instance, I found a complete kit for individual throttle bodies for the M20 that do bolt on, with the correct chips, to the M70 v12 for an additional 80hp per side on the M20 and the M70 has a suffocating problem breathing at the top end so it may even add more power depending on the quality of the test motor. If I can count that would mean I would gain 160hp or more from just a simple bolt on application if the company's claim holds up, raising the power close to 460bhp.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::D

Then these pistons (http://www.vacmotorsports.com/cgi-bin/view_item.pl?item_id=485) with a 11 to 1 compression ratio, whichever one can run still on pump gas, should raise the power even more dramatically just tuning would be a bitch.

Except that the M70's "suffocating breathing problem" is in the head and not the intake manifolds the throttle bodies might help but not that much. If it was that simple I know a couple of hundred people that would have done them on their 8's already.

Except that the M70's "suffocating breathing problem" is in the head and not the intake manifolds the throttle bodies might help but not that much. If it was that simple I know a couple of hundred people that would have done them on their 8's already.

Correct. Also the problem is not at "Breathing in" but at "Breathing Out". Believe me I tried to maximize the NA power of the V12 within my budget and got about 500 and I am at 10.5:1 compression using custom forged short skirt pistons. It is possible to get a 650HP NA but that will involve getting the 4 valve head from the McLaren and the total cost will be around $45K including labor. But that is out of my Budget. I can easily get 600+HP using a Supercharger and Aftercooler setup around $10K.

Except that the M70's "suffocating breathing problem" is in the head and not the intake manifolds the throttle bodies might help but not that much. If it was that simple I know a couple of hundred people that would have done them on their 8's already.

The major problem that I can see is mounting the two throttles onto those ITBs because they are tamper proof and you would have to make either a bracket or jerry rig them on.

Correct. Also the problem is not at "Breathing in" but at "Breathing Out". Believe me I tried to maximize the NA power of the V12 within my budget and got about 500 and I am at 10.5:1 compression using custom forged short skirt pistons. It is possible to get a 650HP NA but that will involve getting the 4 valve head from the McLaren and the total cost will be around $45K including labor. But that is out of my Budget. I can easily get 600+HP using a Supercharger and Aftercooler setup around $10K.

LOL i'd like to have your budget. I'm still putting the money together to get to 450hp

LOL i'd like to have your budget. I'm still putting the money together to get to 450hp

When you get the budget togather.....Lower the compression and mount an S/C and run higher boost. I am slowly adding HP. I started out at 450, then slowly added items to increase it like CDA, Plasma Booster, More custom programming, Lower temp Thermostat, etc.

Some days I wish I was still in California and closer to the Performance shops like VF Engineering. I would have kept my 840. A friend of mine just got a VF S/C on his 540 and has about 410BHP with 6 PSi. He will be manually tuning it to run 10 PSi which should give him around 500BHP. The problem is that he will need to get special HG and HG Studs, etc.

A related thread from a while ago. (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=531845&highlight=M70+head)

When you get the budget togather.....Lower the compression and mount an S/C and run higher boost. I am slowly adding HP. I started out at 450, then slowly added items to increase it like CDA, Plasma Booster, More custom programming, Lower temp Thermostat, etc.

Some days I wish I was still in California and closer to the Performance shops like VF Engineering. I would have kept my 840. A friend of mine just got a VF S/C on his 540 and has about 410BHP with 6 PSi. He will be manually tuning it to run 10 PSi which should give him around 500BHP. The problem is that he will need to get special HG and HG Studs, etc.

I know a guy who has a supercharger on his 740i he is running 11psi with a vf supercharger and water methanol injection I believe that is what I am going to do to i will add a multilayer HG and arp studs but with the water methanol I should run 10-11psi safely. the guy i mentioned uses 11psi on his daily driver. with stock hG and HG studs never had an issues had the setup for over a year at 11psi ve


sometimes I think i should get a v12 also did i tell you my new mechanic is the one who worked on all the dinan twin turbos. I mean he did the actual installs etc.

What can you do with 1000hp that you can not do with 550-600hp ???

It is really just to say that you can do it and that is a nice round number, plus 1000hp is the new 6 or 7 hundred hp goal.

Personally though, now I think it would cost way to much to achieve that much power and not be worth it. It would take individual throttle bodies, cams, heads, low compression pistons, (optional shelves to bore over), headers, massive turbos pushing lots of boost, a great inter-cooler, and finally a shit load tuning. I wish my pockets were that deep.:rolleyes

The only thing that I think could scupper 1000bhp from a turbocharged M70 is the heads.. I am just not convinced they could flow enough air.

The bottom end is available with forged crank etc and sleeved to 6L and my turbos can flow 450bhp each side so slightly bigger than mine would be enough.... completely new intake system would be needed but I may be doing that myself anyhow, but for 1000bhp you'd need bloody good heads and the M70 ones just can't be modded to flow well.

However its all theory to me as while i have the bits to do it, i havn't finished the car its going in... also i can't really exceed 700ftlb anyhow (due to my transaxle limit) and one problem i am confident i will have is that torque will exceed bhp so dreams of 800+bhp are pointless to me anyhow.

you have done a beautiful job with your car. Where did you get the body kit? and the brakes?

About the only car that I know of that produces a real 1000 HP is the Bugatti Veyron -- last I looked it was for sale at $1.4 Mil.

That said, there have been some really good email threads in the forum that lists all the things that you can do to increase HP in the 840 / 850 series, all for a lot less than $1.4 mil! I have driven the 850 modified to about 500 HP -- very doable, and it's a different beast. I have also driven the twin turbo once offered by Dinan (no longer offered through) which is an amazing car!

About the only car that I know of that produces a real 1000 HP is the Bugatti Veyron -- last I looked it was for sale at $1.4 Mil.

That said, there have been some really good email threads in the forum that lists all the things that you can do to increase HP in the 840 / 850 series, all for a lot less than $1.4 mil! I have driven the 850 modified to about 500 HP -- very doable, and it's a different beast. I have also driven the twin turbo once offered by Dinan (no longer offered through) which is an amazing car!

skyline...supra...hundreds of thousands of NHRA cars

skyline...supra...hundreds of thousands of NHRA cars

+ 1200 HP Corvette,
1700 HP Viper


Just search Youtube.

skyline...supra...hundreds of thousands of NHRA cars

with 600+hp shot of nos and lots of other power adders like that. Ever seen one that can make it and last? No, beause there are non. I have yet to see any of those cars that are worth a squat much as is. Skyline is WAY over rated, supra ways a TON and was built as a sports car, not a drag car. How about 1000hp street car that can still handle? Don't think so.

But, on the other hand, NHRA 1000-2000hp, don't they sound good going down, well, the fiew secounds it lasts, then you can't hear much for a fiew hours, lol.

About the only car that I know of that produces a real 1000 HP is the Bugatti Veyron -- last I looked it was for sale at $1.4 Mil.

Also the Koenigsegg CCX-R produces 1018 horsepower on E85 Biofuel and even Top Gear reviewed the CCX which makes 800 horsepower so there are lots of things that are over, under, and close to that amount of power.

But back to the M70: I had my head specialist Mr B take a look at the stock heads and he openly laughed with the idea of those making a thousand horsepower even with an extensive port and polish job plus anything else he could think of. Also I showed him the M20 heads and he said that he thought that it could be possible to make over two thousand horses with those heads on the V12 if you could make it work. Then after an unofficial test fit we found that they could just work but there is the problem of them having a back so that would have to be machined to reverse them.

Just some thoughts we tested out with nothing better to do in a motor head school.:buttrock

+ 1200 HP Corvette,
1700 HP Viper


Just search Youtube.

Ahmed303,

What size wheels do you have? Any front Pics of your cars (almost ground level).

840ways to C :redspot

with 600+hp shot of nos and lots of other power adders like that. Ever seen one that can make it and last? No, beause there are non. I have yet to see any of those cars that are worth a squat much as is. Skyline is WAY over rated, supra ways a TON and was built as a sports car, not a drag car. How about 1000hp street car that can still handle? Don't think so.

But, on the other hand, NHRA 1000-2000hp, don't they sound good going down, well, the fiew secounds it lasts, then you can't hear much for a fiew hours, lol.

mkIv supra weights 3500 lbs...weigh a ton? bout the same as a m3
and it can't handle? you know how successful it is in road racing?
BTW, here is a 1000hp skyline
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xx6hDiJSmo0
just because it cant be done in a bmw, doesn't mean it cant be done in any other cars
oh btw Hennessey twin turbo viper..etc

mkIv supra weights 3500 lbs...weigh a ton? bout the same as a m3
and it can't handle? you know how successful it is in road racing?
BTW, here is a 1000hp skyline
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xx6hDiJSmo0
just because it cant be done in a bmw, doesn't mean it cant be done in any other cars
oh btw Hennessey twin turbo viper..etc

I'm not defending BMW, I just now got my first. I've seen lots of extreme HP cars, problem is, there is TOO much power to make it truly fun to drive and streetable. I thaught the supra was closer to 4k? The ones I drove before felt pretty heavy, and I'm told they are alot heavier then they feel. The supra was not even the best road racer of the group to come out of japan. Personaly never seen it have much success in anything but drag racing.

Ahmed303,

What size wheels do you have? Any front Pics of your cars (almost ground level).

840ways to C :redspot


I believe those are Hartge's, look 19 from here. Am I right?

Yes. Those are Hartge Classics. 19" with 8.5 front and 9.5 rear. The tires are Pirelli P-Zero Rosso. the staggered setup is245/35-19 front and 285/30-19 rear. However I will be going to a 295/35-19 for the rear in the next replacement cycle. That is probably max I can go and still maintain the ration so that I will not get the ASC-T error.

Yes. Those are Hartge Classics. 19" with 8.5 front and 9.5 rear. The tires are Pirelli P-Zero Rosso. the staggered setup is245/35-19 front and 285/30-19 rear. However I will be going to a 295/35-19 for the rear in the next replacement cycle. That is probably max I can go and still maintain the ration so that I will not get the ASC-T error.


Very Nice!

Front Chin & Wheels are next for me!

Looking a The Tire Rack for the 840ci/850! Their website provides the largest Rear set-up as 275/30/19 9.5s for 8 series. You and others prove that this is not the case.

I am looking at a wheel set-up of

245/35/19 8.5
275/30/19 9.5 or 285//30/19 9.5

Thanks,

840ways to C :redspot

I run a 295 rear tire on an 11" rim with no rubbing issues...

I run a 295 rear tire on an 11" rim with no rubbing issues...


Do you have a Close-up Pic of the rear view showing diameter of the wheels to the car?

Thanks,

sure............send me your email address...

Very Nice!

Front Chin & Wheels are next for me!

Looking a The Tire Rack for the 840ci/850! Their website provides the largest Rear set-up as 275/30/19 9.5s for 8 series. You and others prove that this is not the case.

I am looking at a wheel set-up of

245/35/19 8.5
275/30/19 9.5 or 285//30/19 9.5

Thanks,

840ways to C :redspot


Hi just chiming in i fit 19x10's rear on my 95 840ci lowered on H&R with bilsteins an no issues with rubbing I have a 20et

just buy a 450 stroker or something like taht and put a supercharger on it... i'd imagine you could make about 800-900 hp out of it

Hi just chiming in i fit 19x10's rear on my 95 840ci lowered on H&R with bilsteins an no issues with rubbing I have a 20etI have the same et with 20' wheels and no problems.

holy shit this car is in laurel?!! thats not so far from me :drool:

holy shit this car is in laurel?!! thats not so far from me :drool:


Yup! Swing by sometime.