Another failed F1 driver sell out and is slated to go to NASCAR.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/39665/

I guess you go where you get paid.

I would imagine he is okay with this decision. You'd think that he rather race Cart, DTM .....or LMP cars or something....

Granted racing anything is fun and as much as I hate NASCAR if you gave me a 800hp nascar I would have a great time and no doubt it would be exiting to race inches from each other at 200mph. But I rather watch paint dry than watch nascar on TV or in the stands. But in the end it's got to feel like a step down to go from traveling all over the world being in the world's attention and world press. Sampling women from every continent and other F1 "perks".....To traveling around in a tour bus in the american south and having drunk fans that have been tailgating all morning waiting for you to crash into each other.

I dunno I guess I'm just bitter about loosing another talented roadracing driver to big corporate oval racing money. Leave all the oval racing to the guys that grew up watching, living and breathing it.

We all now Vettel has talent (he finsihed 6th in indy right?) but now that he's in the turd that is the torro rosso car he's not getting 6th anymore is he? I believe he qualified behind Liuzzi again today in turkey.

Speed was always outperforming Liuzzi, while I'm not a Speed fan I think that in a good car he could be a consistent top finsher.

So in sum RIP Scott Speed since I don't watch nascar I don't think I ever see him again unless it a crash highlights reel on sportscenter.

Man, NASCAR is great and I wish him HUGE success!

The more road drivers that go to NASCAR helps to legitimize with with those that think it is not a sport!

I think that it certainly shows the difficulty of the sport looking at the so-so results from people like Montoya and Almendinger (sp?).

Just another viewpoint! =)

To traveling around in a tour bus in the american south and having drunk fans that have been tailgating all morning waiting for you to crash into each other.

A tour bus? More like personal jets and helicopters to get you to and from the track. Sure, once you get to the track you probably have your 2 million dollar motorhome waiting on you to live in while you're there...but it's hardly like travelling around on a tour bus. Speed isn't going to ride around to races in the back of the team rig sipping moonshine with his crew chief like you saw in "Days of Thunder".

As for the fans, from what I hear, your description isn't that far off the typical LeMans 24 crowd in Europe. Rednecks all over the world enjoy racing, even F1. Just because you always see TV coverage of celebs and beautiful people at F1 races in the paddock/private areas doesn't mean that everyone in the crowd is the same.

As for the fans, from what I hear, your description isn't that far off the typical LeMans 24 crowd in Europe. Rednecks all over the world enjoy racing, even F1. Just because you always see TV coverage of celebs and beautiful people at F1 races in the paddock/private areas doesn't mean that everyone in the crowd is the same.

NASCAR brings a significantly lower income crowd to its races. Just go to one, or look at the advertisers in F1 vs NASCAR.

Montoya and Almendinger may not be doing so hot, but that just goes to show that talent isn't as big a factor in NASCAR.

And mother of God it is boring to watch.

Whatever, I don't care it takes skill.

I don't enjoy watching it on TV

I don't care for watching it in person.

I'm not a fan.

So it makes me feel better to make fun of people that like it by calling them rednecks. AT least I'm truthful.

I don't see how road racing drivers going to nascar legitimizes the sport. If anything it's an insult to the guys that are oval only guys by saying that.

Doing almost anything at a high level of expertise against 40 other people takes skill.

I for one wouldn't mind if Nascar disappeared completely.

Obviously this is not going to happen. I just hate how it dominates the american motorsport landscape. In print, TV and popular knowledge.

It just pissed me off that a sport that takes most skill of all motorsports and the most popular worldwide motorsport of all, World Rally Racing doesn't even exist here in the US in print or TV.

I think F1 is like watching Ballet and Nascar is like watching WWF.

Im not saying it doesn't take skill and isn't hard. Just saying I think it's crude and It doesn't appeal to me.

F1 like Ballet can be boring at times I'll admit. I'd still rather watch a ballet performance any day than a WWF match. Likewise regardless of who's driving nascar I'd take a boring F1 race over nascar any day.

I know I'm clearly in the minority here in the USA.

To each his own I just hate too see a talented dancer switch to wrestling is all.

In my view if I was a nascar fan I'd rather watch a guy maned Ricky Bobby or Dick Trickle herd a nascar around the oval than dudes names I can't pronounce like Aryton Senna, GIlles Villenueve, Patrick Depailler, Jacques Laffite, Räikkönen or Heikki Kovalainen ???

It's kinda like watching Mikhail Baryshnikov be Hulk Hogan tag team partner in a WWF cage match.

NASCAR brings a significantly lower income crowd to its races. Just go to one, or look at the advertisers in F1 vs NASCAR.



That's more to do with the positioning and branding of the racing "products", not so much the crowd itself. NASCAR positions itself as racing for the working man while F1 positions itself as, well, aristocratic.

And it seems to work pretty well if you look at the salaries and merchandising deals the NASCAR guys get!

Whatever, I don't care it takes skill.

I don't enjoy watching it on TV

I don't care for watching it in person.

I'm not a fan.

So it makes me feel better to make fun of people that like it by calling them rednecks. AT least I'm truthful.

I don't see how road racing drivers going to nascar legitimizes the sport. If anything it's an insult to the guys that are oval only guys by saying that.

Doing almost anything at a high level of expertise against 40 other people takes skill.

I for one wouldn't mind if Nascar disappeared completely.

Obviously this is not going to happen. I just hate how it dominates the american motorsport landscape. In print, TV and popular knowledge.

It just pissed me off that a sport that takes most skill of all motorsports and the most popular worldwide motorsport of all, World Rally Racing doesn't even exist here in the US in print or TV.

I think F1 is like watching Ballet and Nascar is like watching WWF.

Im not saying it doesn't take skill and isn't hard. Just saying I think it's crude and It doesn't appeal to me.

F1 like Ballet can be boring at times I'll admit. I'd still rather watch a ballet performance any day than a WWF match. Likewise regardless of who's driving nascar I'd take a boring F1 race over nascar any day.

I know I'm clearly in the minority here in the USA.

To each his own I just hate too see a talented dancer switch to wrestling is all.

In my view if I was a nascar fan I'd rather watch a guy maned Ricky Bobby or Dick Trickle herd a nascar around the oval than dudes names I can't pronounce like Aryton Senna, GIlles Villenueve, Patrick Depailler, Jacques Laffite, Räikkönen or Heikki Kovalainen ???

It's kinda like watching Mikhail Baryshnikov be Hulk Hogan tag team partner in a WWF cage match.

Excuse me sir. Can you pass the Grey Poupon?:stickoutt


Don

I seam to remember Shumi being the highest payed sports figure in the world. maybe it was #2 after tiger woods.

I do remember he made $80,000,000 a year. $40,000,000 of that straight salary.

Highest paid Nascar driver Jeff Gordon ranks far from 2nd place Shumi at number #23 on forbes annual highest paid athletes list with $19.3 million. Jeff's accumulated total earnings...$52.3million. Less than Shumi made in a year from endorsemtns alone.

Earnhardt Jr. just our ranked Jeff with $20mil.

There is simply no comparison between the budgets of F1 teams vs. Nascar or Salaries of the drivers.

This is no question there is more corporate money tied into and made from F1 than Nascar.

F1 envolves sponsors, fans and money on a global scale.

Nascar mostly a American market.

Roush(nextel cup) was asking anywhere from $12-$15 million to sponsor Jeff Burton's #99 ride, then I guess you could run the whole start grid on Ferrari's annual pasta budget...


F1 Magazine 2003 budgets (Keep in mind these are 2003 figures!)



Engine budgets $931,000,000
$185,000,000 Williams
$175,000,000 Ferrari
$150,000,000 Toyota
$140,000,000 McLaren
$110,000,000 Renault
$105,000,000 BAR
$ 24,000,000 Sauber
$ 18,000,000 Jordan
$ 15,000,000 Minardi
$ 9,000,000 Jaguar


Operating the cars at tests $260,800,000
$88,000,000 Ferrari
$48,000,000 Williams
$29,100,000 McLaren
$24,700,000 Toyota
$22,000,000 BAR
$19,800,000 Sauber
$14,600,000 Renault
$ 7,500,000 Jaguar
$ 3,700,000 Jordan
$ 3,400,000 Minardi
Team salaries $194,000,000


$41,400,000 Ferrari
$32,300,000 Toyota
$30,300,000 McLaren
$24,000,000 Williams
$16,500,000 Renault
$12,800,000 BAR
$12,700,000 Sauber
$10,600,000 Jaguar
$ 8,800,000 Jordan
$ 5,300,000 Minardi


Operating the cars at races $187,300,000
$28,500,000 Ferrari
$22,500,000 Toyota
$20,800,000 Williams
$19,200,000 McLaren
$19,000,000 Renault
$18,200,000 Sauber
$17,600,000 BAR
$17,000,000 Jaguar
$16,000,000 Jordan
$ 8,500,000 Minardi


Research and development $173,000,000
$35,000,000 McLaren
$21,500,000 Toyota
$20,300,000 Williams
$20,000,000 Ferrari
$16,900,000 Renault
$16,500,000 BAR
$15,400,000 Jaguar
$14,600,000 Sauber
$12,600,000 Jordan
$ 200,000 Minardi


Driver salaries $132,000,000
$44,000,000 Ferrari
$24,000,000 BAR
$20,000,000 Williams
$13,500,000 McLaren
$ 8,000,000 Jordan
$ 7,500,000 Toyota
$ 6,800,000 Sauber
$ 6,200,000 Renault
$ 1,500,000 Jaguar
$ 500,000 Minardi


Wind tunnel operating costs $93,600,000
$15,100,000 Ferrari
$12,900,000 McLaren
$12,200,000 Williams
$11,600,000 Toyota
$10,400,000 Sauber
$10,100,000 BAR
$ 8,000,000 Renault
$ 5,500,000 Jaguar
$ 4,500,000 Jordan
$ 3,300,000 Minardi


Travel and accommodation $86,600,000
$18,000,000 Ferrari
$13,000,000 McLaren
$12,000,000 Toyota
$ 9,300,000 Williams
$ 7,900,000 BAR
$ 7,500,000 Renault
$ 6,800,000 Sauber
$ 5,300,000 Jaguar
$ 4,500,000 Jordan
$ 2,300,000 Minardi


Corporate entertaining and catering $62,850,000
$12,200,000 Williams
$ 9,700,000 Ferrari
$ 8,900,000 McLaren
$ 7,200,000 BAR
$ 6,700,000 Renault
$ 6,300,000 Toyota
$ 5,600,000 Jaguar
$ 4,300,000 Sauber
$ 1,600,000 Jordan
$ 350,000 Minardi


Car manufacturing costs $19,250,000
$4,100,000 Ferrari
$2,700,000 McLaren
$2,000,000 Toyota
$2,000,000 BAR
$1,900,000 Sauber
$1,500,000 Jordan
$1,500,000 Williams
$1,400,000 Renault
$1,400,000 Jaguar
$ 750,000 Minardi

Total $2,141,100,000

$443,800,000 Ferrari
$353,300,000 Williams
$304,600,000 McLaren
$290,400,000 Toyota
$225,100,000 BAR
$206,800,000 Renault
$119,500,000 Sauber
$ 79,200,000 Jordan
$ 78,800,000 Jaguar
$ 39,600,000 Minardi

in nascar?

08/01/00
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/wood.htm

"budgets topping $10 million, and by next season, some could be flirting with the $20 million mark."

That wouldn't even pay for alot of the yearly salaries for alot Backmarker F1 drivers. jarno Trulli makes $12 million.....

Nascar/Nextel/Busch/ is basically a spec series and travels "locally" while the season consists of more races than F1 it still doesn't compare cost wise to draging your whole circus around the world like F1 has to do.

It's common sense that F1 is more costly than nascars. F1 scope is much wider therefore so are the driver salaries........

If all I cared about was the money and I had a choice I rather be in F1 than nascar.

There is exponentially way more money in F1 spent in all areas.

...and at least in F1 there is some trickle down technology for the manufacturers to use in thier passenger cars. Nascar is still stuck with carburetors and solid axles. Not much trickle down for the manufacturers involved in nascar. More of a marketing effort than engineering effort in nascar. There is 0 tie-in to real product like there is in sports car racing.

NASCAR positions itself as racing for the working man while F1 positions itself as, well, aristocratic.

That's very true. It's why I made the analogy of Ballet and wrestling.

...but that said, I'm a working man, always been. Don't come from money and never had much of it. In fact most of brazil and many other 3rd world countries were F1 is a huge sport are far from high brow crowd. Most of the people that are F1 fans in brazil are dirt poor......

I think your quote could be fixed by saying "NASCAR positions itself as racing for the N.AMERICAN working man while F1 positions itself as, well, GLOBALLY aristocratic."

F1 thinks they are the best and it's definatly a stuck up sport I agree but I have to say I think rally drivers still posses the most skill in any motorsport form. Please don't ask me to choose between F1 and Rally. That's like asking me to choose between Eva Mendes and Jessica Alba.


anyways.....

im glad he went to nascar. i never liked the guy and im glad hes not contaminating my other favorites series'. u can expect a ton of pressure on him in nascar and will suck.

I do agree with you, Stealthauto, i never understood why Nascar is so popular in your country - all the cars are the same, there is no automotive progress whatsoever and they go around the same oval for like 100000 times, and if it happens to rain, the race is postponed or something like that:rofl

Europe too has it's "stock car challenge", the ETCC, recently renamed WTCC - but it really is no similarity between Nascar and WTCC

i also agree that WRC drivers are among the best in the world - it's amazing to watch them driving with 200km/h on roads that are not much wider than their cars, between trees, buildings, rocks etc.... simply amazing

RIP Scott Speed :(

The lowest team Super Best Friends who is a back runner spends more money a year..

That doesn't matter really...

The ONE issue I have with F1 is the drivers are blamed too much and it seems like everyone EXCEPT for the team owners/leaders understands this. Let us examine vettel. 6th at Indy in a BMW... back of the pack in a Red Bull. He will run there all year. I guarantee you put Hamilton in speed's car... he gets 10th place at best... maybe a COUPLE 7th or 8th for some points. He would NOT be getting pole and he would NOT be winning races. F1 kills off drivers faster than anywhere else and it is hard for a fan to understand. Scott has talent. You don't get a ride in F1 without talent. Don't the owners understand their car is not equal and 1/2 his DNFs were car malfunctions that could never be proved to be scott's fault?

I just don't get it

And Nascar sucks

im glad he went to nascar. i never liked the guy and im glad hes not contaminating my other favorites series'. u can expect a ton of pressure on him in nascar and will suck.

All your post are so angry...

I think you need to seek some help... everything is just so angry.

Just as was said above, F1 is getting to the point where if you don't have a ride with Mercedes or Ferrari, you are doomed for F1-death. The smart drivers understand this and are moving on. There are more politics in F1 then racing. Yes, its the fastest series in the world. Yes, the car are technological masterpieces. But look at Indianapolis last year with the Bridgestone/Michelin fiasco, all dealing with a simple 'inserted' chicane. Look at Mercedes/Mclaren threatening to fire both Alonso and Hamilton because they can't get along. Alonso's head is so high on a pedestal that he can't understand that there are rookies that can beat him. Then you have drivers like Ralph Shumacher who can't achieve top 10's, but are receiving $31mil per year. Its all politics, but because we are American's, all we see are the races.

NASCAR is different in every way. There are tons of politics, but rather then from NASCAR directors to the drivers, its team to team politics. That makes it interesting when driving 'celebrities' are punching each other after a race. I hate the series as much as anyone in America. I go to every non-NASCAR race that I can (ALMS, CCA's, Speed GT and WC, etc). I hate watching Nascar on TV, as its just as boring. But at the end of the day, there are no politics. Case in point - Montoya at Watkins Glen. He was slated to be a top runner because of his experience. Blew an engine, started dead last. Worked his way to the front. Gained the lead, and just to have fun/piss off the other drivers, he would hang the ass-out of every turn having fun. Wind Tunnel on Speed has his in car radio, and he was laughing and carrying on the entire time. Have you ever heard an F1 driver do that? No, they live in secrecy, drive, then go back to their secrecy. Look what happens when Kimi Raikennen goes out and party's with his friends, said stupid things on TV, and just has fun; F1 nearly disowns him. They let him drive because he's good, but every commentary from F1 officials is of how much of a disgrace Kimi is to the sport of F1.

I will amend two things though - one is that watching Nascar on road courses is probably the most entertaining thing of my year. They are only 90 lap races because it takes a caution every lap to finish the race. The guys are spinning left and right, locking up the brakes at every turn, over-revving every downshift (Dale Jr. admitting he was toying with 10-11k rpms), etc... Then when they introduced the 'Car of Tomorrow' or whatever, they slapped a splitter on the front and an APC spoiler on the rear. Whats not to be entertained.

Second I will admit that every sporting event, including ALMS, etc...I am typically drunk or drinking. It makes it 100X more enjoyable when your in a happier state. It also relieves any fright of flirting with the Pirelli and Michelin girls.

Wes

P.S. If you could make $20 million touring the world, with no family life, no freedom, and have to race in a series where everyone is .010 sec difference...or make $15 million, get a jet, partial team ownership, a say in exactly what happens with your car, and the ability to be home every week, party like a rockstar, etc...what would you take?

P.S.S. - When I was in Italy this summer, they had a channel dedicated to WTCC (formerly ETCC). That has to be some of the best, most enjoyable racing I have every seen. BMW 320i's sliding around, ripping off mirrors on chicanes, nailing turns like I have never seen before, while still using a standard 6-speed manual. Has to be some of the best racing I have ever seen in my life. I download every race highlight that I can find that is somewhat understandable.

Yah. It is sad. Get in a good car or get out.

Look at Vettel in Turkey... Points in Indy with BMW...

close to dead last with another team. Vettel in a Mclaren... would podium sometime this year :)

Yah. It is sad. Get in a good car or get out.

Look at Vettel in Turkey... Points in Indy with BMW...

close to dead last with another team. Vettel in a Mclaren... would podium sometime this year :)

So since Speed was way better in an STR than Vettel has been, one might say that in a BMW he's in the points regularly? MMMmm dunno.

Cars are different, drivers are different, people are different. Teams like STR, Jaguar, and other low budget teams will never do well in F1. They are essentially a season or two behind the top runners. But since McLaren and Ferrari can only have a couple drivers each, the competition is very tight so there is little room for advancement.

I hope Speed does well in Nascar. With the new drivers hitting the scene, I think the series will become more enjoyable. They have already added more road courses to try to appease everyone, up to 4 now. If only they wouldn't call the wing'ed new car the 'car of tomorrow'. Its the car of last decade.

car of last decade....hahaha, that made my day, and a pretty sucky day too since today was the first day of classes.

Which are the 4 road courses that Nascar is visiting this year?

[QUOTE=Brad @ evosport;10444223]I think that it certainly shows the difficulty of the sport looking at the so-so results from people like Montoya and Almendinger (sp?).
QUOTE]


Sheesh, Montoya is only in the lead for Rookie of the Year!!:lol

Just as was said above, F1 is getting to the point where if you don't have a ride with Mercedes or Ferrari, you are doomed for F1-death.

and how many teams have a chance to win a NASCAR title exactly out of the 46 or so cars? :confused

and how many teams have a chance to win a NASCAR title exactly out of the 46 or so cars? :confused

8-10 cars have a chance...

The same thing exist as F1. Some owners have 6 cars and can use the data from 6 cars to see what is working and what is not. Certain drivers carry sponserships that equal big money and that means they can win. It is the same as F1. Not every car can win the championship.

8-10 cars have a chance...

The same thing exist as F1. Some owners have 6 cars and can use the data from 6 cars to see what is working and what is not. Certain drivers carry sponserships that equal big money and that means they can win. It is the same as F1. Not every car can win the championship.


exactly my point. I am not really a follower but it doesnt seems to me like 8 car in nascar can win the title, T. stewart, J. johnson, J. gordon, then???

In F1 this year you have 4 car running for the title out of 22 cars, seems to me more competitive than Nascar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NASCAR_champions#NEXTEL_Cup

92 was the last time a "self owned" car won

Hendricks/Gibbs/Childress are the McLaren and Ferrari of Nascar. Pretty much you drive for them or you don't win.

Yates car from 99 would be like BMW winning.

Roush will prolly come on strong over the next couple years as they have a good amount of cars and good money :)

exactly my point. I am not really a follower but it doesnt seems to me like 8 car in nascar can win the title, T. stewart, J. johnson, J. gordon, then???

In F1 this year you have 4 car running for the title out of 22 cars, seems to me more competitive than Nascar.

Nah

I don't follow it either but I see enough sportscenter to know what is going on

Childress has like 6 cars
Hendrick's has like 6 cars
and the other top teams have like 4 each

They could all win...

RIP Scott Speed :(

soo true.. the only place they can show off is a road course.. everything else is a waste of time... sorry to see this happen...

Wow - silly me, here i was thinking Hendrick and Childress only had 4 cars in top flight (Sprint cup). Oh well...I'm getting old so I must be missing the two extra ghost teams.

Now lets see, since the turn of the century - Nascar champions (Winston, Nextel cup):
Jimmie Johnson, Tony Stewart, Kurt Busch, Matt Kenseth, Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, Bobby Labonte.

F1 champs since 00:
M.Schumacher, F Alonso.

F1 Constructors (team) champs - Ferrari, Renault. Can't recall all the Nascar teams since i don't keep up, but i know there's Hendricks, and Gibbs, and i think Busch is Rousch so that's three right there...

so F1 and Nascar are on par when it comes to suspens then. while it's being sold as this ultra competitive serie.

I've been to a couple rallies, to F1 and to a Nascar race. There's something to be said about 40 screaming V8's flying by you, and sitting down in one spot and being able to watch the whole race. Nascar is cool. Dont hate on it until you've been to a race. This Brit I was BS'ing with at the airport said it best..."F1 is a bunch of overpaid playboys." He was more interested to hear about Nascar than to talk about the Rally I just went to. Just goes to show, you always want what you cant have.

I've been to a nascar race at california speedway...........meh. It's definatly better live but it still sucks.

I've been to champ car race there as well and that still sucked.

ovals suck.

8-10 cars have a chance...

The same thing exist as F1. Some owners have 6 cars and can use the data from 6 cars to see what is working and what is not. Certain drivers carry sponserships that equal big money and that means they can win. It is the same as F1. Not every car can win the championship.

But . . . . but . . . . its a SPEC series! Everyone is EQUAL :rolleyes

Nascar blows.

Might as well be driving himself in circles...

Oh wait......:whatmiss

I want to see a real rally :(

I want to see a real rally :(
you wont be disappointed...WRC is king, but the NY / Maine / PA rallies are fun. Check Rally America's site for one near you! :buttrock

Which are the 4 road courses that Nascar is visiting this year?

Watkins Glen and Sears Point for the Nextel Cup guys and Watkins Glen, Montreal, and Mexico City for the Busch guys.

I've been to a couple rallies, to F1 and to a Nascar race. There's something to be said about 40 screaming V8's flying by you, and sitting down in one spot and being able to watch the whole race. Nascar is cool. Dont hate on it until you've been to a race. This Brit I was BS'ing with at the airport said it best..."F1 is a bunch of overpaid playboys." He was more interested to hear about Nascar than to talk about the Rally I just went to. Just goes to show, you always want what you cant have.
those "overpaid playboys" are the best drivers in the world, everyone sees the F1 as the pinnacle of motor-racing.

I don't think that you've been to a F1 race, and i don't mean Indianapolis - i mean tracks like Monaco, Nurburgring, Spa or Monza only the you will realise just how spectacular F1 is...... compare that with driving in circles with 30 yo cars:lol

those "overpaid playboys" are the best drivers in the world, everyone sees the F1 as the pinnacle of motor-racing.

I don't think that you've been to a F1 race, and i don't mean Indianapolis - i mean tracks like Monaco, Nurburgring, Spa or Monza only the you will realise just how spectacular F1 is...... compare that with driving in circles with 30 yo cars:lol
Think what you'd like, I never said anything bad about F1. I was only telling you about a conversation I had with a Brit sitting in an airport diner about motorsport. They appreciate NASCAR overseas, more than you know. And yes, I have been to a "real" F1 race. I was in Montreal for the last year of the V10's. I will however beg to differ, that the best drivers in the world are in fact Rally drivers :buttrock

Think what you'd like, I never said anything bad about F1. I was only telling you about a conversation I had with a Brit sitting in an airport diner about motorsport. They appreciate NASCAR overseas, more than you know. And yes, I have been to a "real" F1 race. I was in Montreal for the last year of the V10's. I will however beg to differ, that the best drivers in the world are in fact Rally drivers :buttrock

Don't feed the haters. You will always be wrong and they will always be right. Thank god they can use the excuse of "nascar" as to why road racing sucks in the US. Otherwise, they'd have no one else to blame but themselves...and they certainly wouldn't do that.

Don

The more road drivers that go to NASCAR helps to legitimize with with those that think it is not a sport!

I think that it certainly shows the difficulty of the sport looking at the so-so results from people like Montoya and Almendinger (sp?).

Just another viewpoint! =)

They are going for the money, plain and simple. Nothing to do with the form of racing. Montoya is hampered by an inferior car, once that car is good (a few times this year) he finishes close to the top. Do I think it is because Juan is such a great driver? Not on ovals. It seems to me you are just along for the ride on the ovals if you car isn't working. It has x amount of grip in those long corners and that is all it has. On a roadcourse, there are more variables and a driver can do all sorts of things to adjust to an ill-handling car.

I still think a good World Challenge Touring Car race or Euro DTM and Touring Cars is by far the best racing to watch. Very short races; closely matched cars, tons of passing and in the case of DTM, insane machines.

Looks like Jack Villeneuve is driving a Craftsman Truck next season, with some Cup races thrown in the mix. All the F1 drivers are jumping ship...Nascar must really suck :lol

Um, Jacque Villeneuve is not driving in F1. He was fired for sucking.

Don't feed the haters. You will always be wrong and they will always be right. Thank god they can use the excuse of "nascar" as to why road racing sucks in the US. Otherwise, they'd have no one else to blame but themselves...and they certainly wouldn't do that.

Don
uhhh..... i'm german - i can't be guilty for your inability to build cars or have a decent motor-sport

i don't want to be a hater, it's just what 99% of the non-americans think about Nascar

Um, Jacque Villeneuve is not driving in F1. He was fired for sucking.
that's a former world champ you're talking about, who drove a BMW no less! blasphemy! :evil2

uhhh..... i'm german - i can't be guilty for your inability to build cars or have a decent motor-sport

i don't want to be a hater, it's just what 99% of the non-americans think about Nascar


who cares what non-americans think? :evil2


....in all seriousness... I'm the idiot getting up on saturday and sunday mornings at 7am to watch F1 :buttrock

All the F1 drivers are jumping ship...Nascar must really suck :lol

Uhhh . . . Montoya didn't have anyone who'd hire him, and Villenueve was fired in the middle of the season. Both are out because they were sucking.

NASCAR is not stealing F1 drivers who are jumping ship- it's taking F1 has-beens.

uhhh..... i'm german - i can't be guilty for your inability to build cars or have a decent motor-sport

Inability? Hardly. Different market is more like it. That's like me saying Europeans are unable to build trucks. :rolleyes WTF is your point?

As far as motorsports; champ car owns F1 in every way except for the technology of the cars, which is not behind by much. If champ car ran different chassis it would be infinitely better than F1.

Uhhh . . . Montoya didn't have anyone who'd hire him, and Villenueve was fired in the middle of the season. Both are out because they were sucking.

NASCAR is not stealing F1 drivers who are jumping ship- it's taking F1 has-beens.
my sarcasm is being lost on you people :(

you wont be disappointed...WRC is king, but the NY / Maine / PA rallies are fun. Check Rally America's site for one near you! :buttrock

I used to watch WRC religiously till speed killed it off!!!

Inability? Hardly. Different market is more like it. That's like me saying Europeans are unable to build trucks. :rolleyes WTF is your point?

As far as motorsports; champ car owns F1 in every way except for the technology of the cars, which is not behind by much. If champ car ran different chassis it would be infinitely better than F1.

It owns it in every way except technology? So then it doesn't really own?

Proof of this statement?

As far as motorsports; champ car owns F1 in every way except for the technology of the cars, which is not behind by much. If champ car ran different chassis it would be infinitely better than F1.

did you just really typed that?? :rolleyes
Yeah, sure exept for technology! and remind me what an F1 car is all about? :confused oh yeah, technology and a bit of drivers. and even on the later, F1 owns champ car. is you want to compare champ car it would be more like GP2 ;)

Inability? Hardly. Different market is more like it. That's like me saying Europeans are unable to build trucks. :rolleyes WTF is your point?

As far as motorsports; champ car owns F1 in every way except for the technology of the cars, which is not behind by much. If champ car ran different chassis it would be infinitely better than F1.
by trucks you mean.... cargo trucks... like Mercedes-Benz, MAN, Scania, Renault, DAF, Volvo, Iveco?
My point is that americans are known for building POS cars, with only few exceptions

ohh and Champ Car is so far from F1 in every single point, the fact that the Champ car champion migrated to one of the worst teams in F1 says it all...

from the technology point of view - top F1 teams invest over 100 million dollars per season in the engine alone, not to mention aerodynamics, drivetrain etc... i dont' know how much Champ car teams invest in their cars, but i seriously doubt that their budget comes close to one third of F1's

i don't want to look like an european douche, but you need to do something about your motor-sports, all that "all cars are the same" shit, stops technology advancement in the car industry

It owns it in every way except technology? So then it doesn't really own?

Proof of this statement?

The series management is way better. The rules are better. The actual racing is better. The qualifying is better, the tire compound rules F1 stole came from champ car, the aero rules are way better. The FIA bitches that it needs more passing and less aero, meanwhile its raising the front wing (which makes following cars more susceptible to wakes).

did you just really typed that?? :rolleyes
Yeah, sure exept for technology! and remind me what an F1 car is all about? :confused oh yeah, technology and a bit of drivers. and even on the later, F1 owns champ car. is you want to compare champ car it would be more like GP2 ;)

Uhhh, the fact that most F1 races involve one guy starting on pole and leading the whole race with passing happening on 10tgh place and above, means Champ car is a better RACING series.

by trucks you mean.... cargo trucks... like Mercedes-Benz, MAN, Scania, Renault, DAF, Volvo, Iveco?
My point is that americans are known for building POS cars, with only few exceptions

Pickup trucks. Europeans don't make great pickup trucks, do they? Maybe its because, I dunno, they don't drive them?

ohh and Champ Car is so far from F1 in every single point, the fact that the Champ car champion migrated to one of the worst teams in F1 says it all...

from the technology point of view - top F1 teams invest over 100 million dollars per season in the engine alone, not to mention aerodynamics, drivetrain etc... i dont' know how much Champ car teams invest in their cars, but i seriously doubt that their budget comes close to one third of F1's

The development for the chassis is actually close to what one F1 team spends. That's why the new cars run pretty close to what F1 does. The difference is that, as a spec series, the cost is shared, so the teams don't individually pay those costs.

i don't want to look like an european douche, but you need to do something about your motor-sports, all that "all cars are the same" shit, stops technology advancement in the car industry

Advancement stops? Maybe in Europe. R&D all stopping because of a race series doesn't make any sense. Manufacturers are going to spend cash on it through whatever means available - racing or otherwise. Do you really think BMW develops road car technology by spending 500 million on F1 compared to spending 500M on the 3 series?


F1 is complete shit without the exorbitant technology, and the FIA wants to get rid of that anyways, mostly because green European wankers are whining about C02 levels they can't even link to cars . . . The rules are absolute bullshit and it'd be better off if it were managed by champ car.

The rules are absolute bullshit and it'd be better off if it were managed by champ car.


You mean the same Champ Car that just had a race canceled for lack of sponsorship?

WRC Rally Mexico was the best time I've ever had watching any motorsport.

Worth every penny I saved for the trip....

GO MASSA!!!!!!!!!! :buttrock:buttrock:redspot:redspot

NASCAR SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!:embarrasm:(:embarrasm:deadhorse :
:withstupi

i don't want to look like an european douche, but you need to do something about your motor-sports, all that "all cars are the same" shit, stops technology advancement in the car industry

I think you have confused what RACING actually is. Spec series have terrific racing, and close racing is what is entertaining. The purpose of a spec series is to have close competition, not advance the car industry.

I watch F1 for the technology, the actual racing is horrible 99% of the time.

Why do some of you retards think F1 drivers just wake up one day and forget how to drive?

Nascar has better racing. After 3+ hrs they have more than an entire F1 field of guys who are challenging for the lead on the last lap! Just because the cars suck mean they are easier to drive. If anything it's the other way around...

Speed is/was/always will be an F1 driver. No one can take that away from him, but it will be nice to see him make some big bucks at home.

And contrary to what people may think, Vettel taking his seat is the best thing that could have happened to him.

Nascar has better racing. After 3+ hrs they have more than an entire F1 field of guys who are challenging for the lead on the last lap! Just because the cars suck mean they are easier to drive. If anything it's the other way around...


Which is why I can't understand why they race the first 2 hours and 50 minutes. There will be a yellow with four laps to go for marketing. There is lots of passing because it isn't hard to do and a pass rarely means much given how the races pan out.

Again, touring car racing in short sprint format has no equal in terms of racing excitement. EG

http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1130057838&channel=932744381&lineup=-1

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1946203968228263536&q=dtm+1990&total=6&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I like watching F1, every once in awhile a race will break out. Actually, this is the first year where there is actually some interesting racing going on....as far as I'm concerned the Schumacher / Ferrari "era" sucked. I like touring cars too, unfortunately Speed doesn't show much. BTCC was great, with the big Volvo wagons and the Audi Quattros before they were banned. Those were the days. As far as Nascar is concerned...I cant stand to watch for hours on end....its a much different experience live. On TV, Its like a basketball game....you only need to watch the last 5 minutes

You mean the same Champ Car that just had a race canceled for lack of sponsorship?

Who gives a flying fuck? A sponsor is lost and all of a sudden the competition and close driving is gone? :confused Bourdais and Dutchboy have been neck and neck all season. Doorbos passed the entire field at San Jose for the win. A week after that, Hamilton started on pole and won the race. There was one position change in the top 5 from beginning to end. Heidfeld, who isn't an amazing driver or anything, was passed on track for the FIRST time all SEASNO just 3 races ago. Yeah, that's exciting racing! :rolleyes

American RACING is better than anything else out there in terms of ACTUAL RACING. That means passing, having lots of drivers in the mix for titles and wins, lots of action on the track etc. You get rid of Indy, and run 3-4 different chassis in Champ car and it'd kick the shit out of F1 in racing and even in technology considering the rules wouldn't be overburdening and infringing. I guess that' the European way, right? The FIA is like European socialism for motorsports.

Most of F1's "action" happens in the tabloids :rofl OMG - Hamilton said he didn't like Alonso's green panties!!! *tee hee*

If I weren't an engineer there's no way in hell I'd give a shit about F1. I watch it purely for the Aerodynamics and the engine noise. F1 is a parade. A cool one with some nifty engineering, but a parade nonetheless.

BTW, Alpine torque: They have something for advancing the car industry . . . it's called "the car industry."

American RACING is better than anything else out there in terms of ACTUAL RACING. That means passing, having lots of drivers in the mix for titles and wins, lots of action on the track etc.


Umm......what about DTM and BTCC/ETCC/WTCC? Lots of action there......There even some epic scraps in GP2.


.........and if you want to watch a nascar race with corners, watch the Australian V8 Supercar series. That's pretty much "Roadracing Nascars"......

Ovals still suck.....and so does nascar. ;)

Umm......what about DTM and BTCC/ETCC/WTCC? Lots of action there......There even some epic scraps in GP2.


.........and if you want to watch a nascar race with corners, watch the Australian V8 Supercar series. That's pretty much "Roadracing Nascars"......

Ovals still suck.....and so does nascar. ;)

Where are you watching these? I'd love to see more of them (other than sh*tty youtube vids), along with JGTC (or whatever its called now), but none of those are on TV often as far as I can tell.

ALMS, Rolex, Koni Challenge, SWC...yep, US racing sucks, eh?

Bet there are more passes in the first 5 minutes of a SWC race than there are in an entire season of F1.

If you haven't been to a professional Nascar race, i suggest going some time. the wrecks get pretty cool, thats about it, but it's definitely an experience that i would recommend.

people are talking about ferrari and mclaren running away from everyone else. makes me wonder how long youve been watching f1. in the 90s williams couldnt be stopped and everyone was saying the same thing. you never know what team will be in the chase. last year mclaren didnt win a race and renault couldn't be stopped. thats the reason its interesting, teams never dominate for more than a few years. bmw is coming on very very strong and next year i strongly believe they will win races and possibly the next year have a shot at the constructors. but dont be so ignorant to think mclaren is the team to beat. ferrari will always be there because they spend so much money but there will be teams that charge their way back up. teams to watch for next year will be williams, renault and bmw. BAR has a chance to return as well.

Speed has his first test and will be racing on Oct. 5th

read all about it.....
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/09/26/speed-enjoys-first-nascar-test/


I loved to read his observations. Funny stuff! Read the article.

He must feel like he got demoted late at night. From all the glitz and glam of F1 to ..... well you know....

F1 to Arca, that's a pretty big change. I wonder if Red Bull didn't have any opportunities for him in IRL or Champ or if Speed really wanted to do stock car. Oh well either way, maybe we'll see him in nextel some day.

F1 to Arca, that's a pretty big change. I wonder if Red Bull didn't have any opportunities for him in IRL or Champ or if Speed really wanted to do stock car. Oh well either way, maybe we'll see him in nextel some day.

NO ONE has any opportunities in IRL/Champcar. It's a dead-end street.

Inferior car yes, but when he's flying to the races in his own helicopter I think that will ease the pain. :lol3

But will Speed have to trade in his Austrian girlfriend for Becky Sue from the Sip and Dip?
Then again those country girls can be a LOT of fun:devillook

Villeneuve too - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/7018540.stm

F1 to Arca, that's a pretty big change. I wonder if Red Bull didn't have any opportunities for him in IRL or Champ or if Speed really wanted to do stock car. Oh well either way, maybe we'll see him in nextel some day.

Montoya did the same thing: ARCA, Busch, then Cup.

That's true, I forgot he started out in arca. Oh well, at least it's not hooters pro cup, if that still exists.