I am trying to determine what ride height, shock rebound stiffness, Toe and camber would be best for the street/track. I have the ground control coilover conversion kit with 450#/550# springs, Grond control race camber/caster plates, Koni SAs and Dinan swaybars. I essentially have a 1995 E36 M3 with 325i body panels. (I know I do not have an M3 but everything under the car came from an M3 so it is easier to say I have an M3 to people that do not know me)

Front Camber - 2.5*
Rear Camber - 2*
Front Toe In - 1/16"
Rear Toe In - 3/16"
Front shocks - full stiff
Rear shocks - 1/4 turn from full stiff
Front ride height - -1.5"
Rear ride height - -1"

Do these sound like good numbers? Or does anyone with the same/similar setup have different recommendations?

Thanks in advance

Here you go:

Awesome!
Thanks

Oh and height:

With shortened struts OR camber/caster plates: 13"F & 11.75"R

With shortened struts AND GC camber/caster plates: 12.25"F & 11"R

With stock strut length and stock upper mounts: 13.75"F & 12.25"R

Right now I'm @ 13/11.75" but I might go down to 12.5/11.25"

front toe: i like 0 to 1/8" out
koni sa: i heard full stiff is bad

Oh and height:

With shortened struts OR camber/caster plates: 13"F & 11.75"R

With shortened struts AND GC camber/caster plates: 12.25"F & 11"R

With stock strut length and stock upper mounts: 13.75"F & 12.25"R

Right now I'm @ 13/11.75" but I might go down to 12.5/11.25"

Numbers are measured from the center of the wheel (hub) to the lip of the fender.

Is this for autoX or track?

I would not run the damping at full stiff, or any more than half turn from full stiff. I had a similar setup and was running the front at 1 to 1.25 turn from full stiff and the rear at 0.75 turn from full stiff.

If you have the coilover conversion kit which uses the stock strut housing you won't have that much travel. I wouldn't lower too much or you'll be on the bump stops a lot. I had the extra extra short struts (running 440 lbs in in the front) and was still getting into the bumpstops in roads similar to Page Mill (in Palo Alto). For smoother surfaces you should be ok.

Is this for autoX or track?

I would not run the damping at full stiff, or any more than half turn from full stiff. I had a similar setup and was running the front at 1 to 1.25 turn from full stiff and the rear at 0.75 turn from full stiff.

If you have the coilover conversion kit which uses the stock strut housing you won't have that much travel. I wouldn't lower too much or you'll be on the bump stops a lot. I had the extra extra short struts (running 440 lbs in in the front) and was still getting into the bumpstops in roads similar to Page Mill (in Palo Alto). For smoother surfaces you should be ok.

I have the stock struts but the camber plates raise the plunger (i guess thats the term) about an inch compared to the stock strut hats. I think I should be okay lowering up to 1.5". I shortened the stock bump stops 3/4" when I had the H&R sport springs. I plan to get real bumpstops after my next track day on the 19th.

Why not full stiff? It doesn't seem overdamped. I'm no expert though.

I just talked to Tony at TC Design in Milpitas, CA and he said, "do what I did to your brother's car." My brother just got his supercharged '95 M3 adjusted today. I suppose I'll post what the numbers are when I have a chance to measure. I can measure and be relatively accurate because my driveway is perfectly flat. :)

Also, my brother says he has 500#/600# springs but they feel much stiffer than my 450#/550# springs. Is there any way to determine the spring rate from the numbers on the springs? (I haven't tried to decipher them yet.)

My brother has:
Front driver's height - 12 7/8"
Front pass height - 12 3/4"
Rear driver's height - 12"
Rear pass height - 12 1/4"
Front camber both sides - 2.35*
Rear camber both sides - 1.35*
*I took all measurements with the car parked in my driveway forward and reverse. For ride height, there was only about 1/16" difference between each of the measurements.

I didn't measure the following:
Front Toe in - 1/16"
Rear toe in - 3/16"
Shocks are adjusted somewhere in the middle - it seems underdamped to me.

My brother is rubbing a bit on his rear driver's side even after getting the fenders rolled because he just put 17x8.5 Kosei's with 255/40/R17 RA-1 tires on his car. Would that be because the rear driver's side is a quater inch lower than the passenger side?

Also, he got his car corner weighted. So, it makes sense for the front driver's side to be 1/8" higher than the passenger side. But, it doesn't make sense that the rear driver's side is a 1/4" lower than the passenger side.

Assuming the car's weight is distributed equally on all of the wheels but the driver's weight is not, I would think the height numbers would look as follows:
Front driver's height - 12 7/8"
Front pass height - 12 3/4"
Rear driver's height - fractionally greater than the rear passenger side
Rear pass height - 12 1/4"

I am assuming that most of the driver's weight is distributed to the front driver's side and the rest of the driver's weight is to the rear driver's side wheel.

Does anyone have any comments regarding anything I have mentioned?
Again, TIA.

I think I am going to do 12 3/4 (-1")and 11 1/2 (-3/4") for my ride height. Set the front toe in to 1/16" with camber at -2.5* and adjust the camber to -3* when I go to the track. That will also give me a little toe out for the track. I'll set the rear camber to -2* and the rear toe in to 3/16" and just leave it there.

I'm not sure about the shocks yet. I guess I'll have to play around with that.

I have the stock struts but the camber plates raise the plunger (i guess thats the term) about an inch compared to the stock strut hats. I think I should be okay lowering up to 1.5". I shortened the stock bump stops 3/4" when I had the H&R sport springs. I plan to get real bumpstops after my next track day on the 19th.

Why not full stiff? It doesn't seem overdamped. I'm no expert though.

The raised "plunger" doesn't affect the amount of compression travel you get, only how much your struts will droop. To be honest, I'm not sure how much stack height reduction you will get from the camber plates. Take a look at:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8798049&postcount=24

The stock strut hat (setup to run with GC coilovers) looks to have about the same stack height as a camber plate setup (Motorforce). The Motorforce upper spring perch allows the bump stop to sit about 0.5 inches higher, so you are less likely to be on the bumpstop, but in terms of coilbind, it appears to be pretty similar to the stock strut hat.

As for the Konis at full stiff, from that I have seen in dyno charts and personally experienced, they start acting funny. After a compression stroke, the are momentarily underdamped. It will feel as if there were an additional oscillation after a bump.

My brother has:
Front driver's height - 12 7/8"
Front pass height - 12 3/4"
Rear driver's height - 12"
Rear pass height - 12 1/4"
Front camber both sides - 2.35*
Rear camber both sides - 1.35*
*I took all measurements with the car parked in my driveway forward and reverse. For ride height, there was only about 1/16" difference between each of the measurements.

I didn't measure the following:
Front Toe in - 1/16"
Rear toe in - 3/16"
Shocks are adjusted somewhere in the middle - it seems underdamped to me.

My brother is rubbing a bit on his rear driver's side even after getting the fenders rolled because he just put 17x8.5 Kosei's with 255/40/R17 RA-1 tires on his car. Would that be because the rear driver's side is a quater inch lower than the passenger side?

Also, he got his car corner weighted. So, it makes sense for the front driver's side to be 1/8" higher than the passenger side. But, it doesn't make sense that the rear driver's side is a 1/4" lower than the passenger side.

Assuming the car's weight is distributed equally on all of the wheels but the driver's weight is not, I would think the height numbers would look as follows:
Front driver's height - 12 7/8"
Front pass height - 12 3/4"
Rear driver's height - fractionally greater than the rear passenger side
Rear pass height - 12 1/4"

I am assuming that most of the driver's weight is distributed to the front driver's side and the rest of the driver's weight is to the rear driver's side wheel.

Does anyone have any comments regarding anything I have mentioned?
Again, TIA.

All those ride heights are based on corner weighting. So, every car will be somewhat different.

Jay

I am trying to determine what ride height, shock rebound stiffness, Toe and camber would be best for the street/track. I have the ground control coilover conversion kit with 450#/550# springs, Grond control race camber/caster plates, Koni SAs and Dinan swaybars. I essentially have a 1995 E36 M3 with 325i body panels. (I know I do not have an M3 but everything under the car came from an M3 so it is easier to say I have an M3 to people that do not know me)

Front Camber - 2.5*
Rear Camber - 2*
Front Toe In - 1/16"
Rear Toe In - 3/16"
Front shocks - full stiff
Rear shocks - 1/4 turn from full stiff
Front ride height - -1.5"
Rear ride height - -1"

Do these sound like good numbers? Or does anyone with the same/similar setup have different recommendations?

Thanks in advance

Ditto on the 325/M3. My car is almost identical. I also run the LTW splitter/wing (replicas) and the JTD full undertray.

Thanks guys for the advice! :)

The raised "plunger" doesn't affect the amount of compression travel you get, only how much your struts will droop. To be honest, I'm not sure how much stack height reduction you will get from the camber plates. Take a look at:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8798049&postcount=24


I think there was a misunderstanding...I know it doesn't affect the smount of spring travel. I meant the shock plunger will be at a stock ride height level if the car is lowered by 1" because the plunger is raised by the camber plates ~1". Right? Hopefully I explained it correctly this time.

I would not run the damping at full stiff, or any more than half turn from full stiff. I had a similar setup and was running the front at 1 to 1.25 turn from full stiff and the rear at 0.75 turn from full stiff.

Is this for auto-x or street driving?

I didn't know full stiff was "bad", you learn something new everyday. Right now I have full stiff on the front and 1/2 turn from full stiff in the rear. I've attended a couple of auto-x events and thought it was adequate but would like some more experienced insight.

I'd also like to know how to properly adjust my GC sway bar endlinks..

Here's my suspension setup:
GC Coilovers 450/525
H&R 28mm front sway bar, stock 20mm rear
x-brace, strut brace, GC RSMs, PF RTABs

AHuff, pics would be great.

The '95 I bought seems a bit low in front vs. the rear so I am going to take those measurements.

Is this for auto-x or street driving?

I didn't know full stiff was "bad", you learn something new everyday. Right now I have full stiff on the front and 1/2 turn from full stiff in the rear. I've attended a couple of auto-x events and thought it was adequate but would like some more experienced insight.

I'd also like to know how to properly adjust my GC sway bar endlinks..

Here's my suspension setup:
GC Coilovers 450/525
H&R 28mm front sway bar, stock 20mm rear
x-brace, strut brace, GC RSMs, PF RTABs

You just adjust the endlinks till there's no preload...aka you can attach both endlinks to strut housings when the car is on the ground without having to jack one side up.

AHuff, pics would be great.

The '95 I bought seems a bit low in front vs. the rear so I am going to take those measurements.

I just put mine at 13" and 12" and the rear looks and feels too low. It may seem low because I had the raked H&R sports in previously.

pics - maybe in a couple days when i get the camber set correctly in the rear and the toe adjusted.

I just put mine at 13" and 12" and the rear looks and feels too low. It may seem low because I had the raked H&R sports in previously.

pics - maybe in a couple days when i get the camber set correctly in the rear and the toe adjusted.

If you have 13" F, then you should have 11.75" R. The rear will look lower because the wheel arch is much shallower than the front. So it appears as if the rear sits lower then the front.

If you have 13" F, then you should have 11.75" R. The rear will look lower because the wheel arch is much shallower than the front. So it appears as if the rear sits lower then the front.


Yeah I know...but the rear looks lower than when I had the H&R sports. The rear with GC C/O should be a little higher than the H&R sports, right?

Assuming BMWpowere36M3's numbers for stock ride height are correct, then with H&R sports I would have been lowered to 12.25" and 11.25". I'll have to check my numbers, but I think I was at 12.5" up front and about 12" in the rear which tells me that stock numbers should be more like 14" and 13".

I suppose I'll give Tony a call to confirm.

FWIW...
I took it to TCDesign to verify my setup. I ended up doing 13" front, 12" rear, 3deg front, 2.5deg rear, 1/16" toe-in front and 3/16" toe-in rear. They said that was a really good comprimise between street and track use.

The Dinan swaybars I have, I had set at full stiff up front and full soft in the rear. I was understeering a bit on the track so I am going to go full stiff in the rear next time out.

The shocks are at 1/4 turn from stiff up front and 1/2 turn from full stiff in rear. I think that feels pretty good. It could go a little stiffer in the rear but it is a pain to adjust.

The Dinan swaybars I have, I had set at full stiff up front and full soft in the rear. I was understeering a bit on the track so I am going to go full stiff in the rear next time out.
I'd bet that you'd be faster not by stiffening the rear bar, but entering turns a bit slower. Have you been to the track with TCDesign's setup yet? Tony is a magician...

I'd bet that you'd be faster not by stiffening the rear bar, but entering turns a bit slower. Have you been to the track with TCDesign's setup yet? Tony is a magician...

Yes, I just went yesterday up at thunderhill. I was using all of the front tires but I was still about 1/2" from the edge of the rear tires. The rears are 255/40/17 on 9" wheels and the fronts are 245/40/17 on 8" wheels. I am trying to compensate for the staggered setup by stiffening the rear bar. If my understanding of swaybars is correct...by stiffening the rear bar, more force is applied to the outside rear wheel than previously was applied. That may or may not allow me to use more of the rear tire but it will help with my understeering. My brain says it will allow me to use more of my rear tire. Hell, I don't know. I'll just try it.

Anyway, I went to the driving school and the couple instructors that rode with me said I was doing a good job. They didn't say I was entering the turns too fast (I did enter 14 a bit too fast and offline a couple times but I resolved that issue). Although, they could have just been trying to be nice. They did, however, check me off for running solo (I did that a couple sessions) and to advance to the B group next time. So, I don't know, maybe I have the basics down and just need to smooth out the rough edges. The main thing I know I was doing wrong was early appexing a couple turns at the beginning of the day. I more or less fixed that by the end of the day though. The next thing I am going to work on is downshifting to 2nd more smoothly.

Well, I don't know what my point is? I guess I'll try entering more slowly but I really don't think that was the issue. Thanks for the advice.