Hello everybody. Heres the deal i have a BLACK 2002 Bmw 540 and i have swirl marks on the car. I think the cause of it is because my friends father used an old rag to dry the car. Now how can i take the swirls out without harming the paint.

Use a UDM or PC. This is the safest method of swirl removal; working by hand simply won't do the trick.

A rotary is also a safe tool so long as you know how to use it and will yield better results faster, but again, you have to have experience. The UDM or PC can just be picked up by any average joe and not have to worry about harming the paint (that is unless it is an old single stage paint from the 60s or something of the sort).

Sorry man im a newb, whats UDM or PC. I think its a buffer but is it a special buffer??

A PC is a Porter-Cable random orbit polisher. Usually a 7336 or 7335.

A PC with the appropriate pads and polishes can remove swirl marks by removing clear coat to the lowest level of the swirl. In other words, you remove the surrounding material until the material is all at the same level.

I have no idea what a UDM is. I'm sure Wolf Strong will post the answer.

UDM is the "Ultimate Detailing Machine".
It's pretty new on the market, but I think it's a bit more powerful than the PC.
It's pretty much the same thing as a PC, but I've heard its a bit better too.
I might pick up another PC, or even the UDM, but I'm not too sure lol...
Here's more info on the PC
http://www.autogeek.net/poca746varap.html
Here's more info on the UDM
http://www.autogeek.net/udm-ultimate-detailing-machine.html
Good luck!

-Randy

It will take you two or three days if using a PC to get rid of swirls and you still won't be happy with it.

You need heat to remove the swirls and the PC just doesn't generate enough heat to smooth out the swirls.

You should contact a detailer who knows how to use a rotary buffer and have them take care of it for you, otherwise you can seriously screw up your paint.

The UDM is nearly the same as the PC, I've heard it is a bit heavier though....obviously not enough difference to warrant me going out and getting one.:embarrasm

It will take you two or three days if using a PC to get rid of swirls and you still won't be happy with it.

You need heat to remove the swirls and the PC just doesn't generate enough heat to smooth out the swirls.

You should contact a detailer who knows how to use a rotary buffer and have them take care of it for you, otherwise you can seriously screw up your paint.

The UDM is nearly the same as the PC, I've heard it is a bit heavier though....obviously not enough difference to warrant me going out and getting one.:embarrasm

Wrong, it wont take long for a PC to get rid of swirls and you dont need heat to smooth out swirls. :rolleyes

Get a PC to start out with. A rotary is great to have when you get more experienced.

Buy swirl remover?

A PC or UDM will most definitely take out swirls if used with the right pad and the right product. I did my girlfriend's black Mitsubishi (had what I would call moderate swirls) in about an hour or so, using the UDM, and it looked great.

Since we're on topic... and this doesn't hijack the thread, but merely contributes.

I'm in the market for some new swirl mark removers... what brand/product would you all recommend?

Thanks.
-Dan

It will take you two or three days if using a PC to get rid of swirls and you still won't be happy with it.

You need heat to remove the swirls and the PC just doesn't generate enough heat to smooth out the swirls.

You should contact a detailer who knows how to use a rotary buffer and have them take care of it for you, otherwise you can seriously screw up your paint.

The UDM is nearly the same as the PC, I've heard it is a bit heavier though....obviously not enough difference to warrant me going out and getting one.:embarrasm

Absolutley correct. All a PC does is round off the edges of a swirl leaving it a bit less reflective of sunlight. A pc simply does not have enough power to remove it completely. For that you need a rotory, especially on black cars.

A PC or UDM will most definitely take out swirls if used with the right pad and the right product. I did my girlfriend's black Mitsubishi (had what I would call moderate swirls) in about an hour or so, using the UDM, and it looked great.

What most likely happened was you filled the swirl with what ever you topped it off with. Those same swirls probably reappeaered after the first washing.

Since we're on topic... and this doesn't hijack the thread, but merely contributes.

I'm in the market for some new swirl mark removers... what brand/product would you all recommend?

Thanks.
-Dan

That depends on the severity of the swirls. There are a ton of good products available from 3M

Absolutley correct. All a PC does is round off the edges of a swirl leaving it a bit less reflective of sunlight. A pc simply does not have enough power to remove it completely. For that you need a rotory, especially on black cars.
Hate to burst your bubble, but that is EXACTLY what a rotary does. A rotary just does the job faster and is able to work with harder paint, whereas a PC is not able cut through extremely hard paint. German clears tend to be soft, whereas an American clear from the 90s-present will be EXTREMELY heard (especially Ford! They have VERY hard clears).

in my experience, the E36 clearcoat is so damn harder than the rest of the other car makes'.

Hate to burst your bubble, but that is EXACTLY what a rotary does. A rotary just does the job faster and is able to work with harder paint, whereas a PC is not able cut through extremely hard paint. German clears tend to be soft, whereas an American clear from the 90s-present will be EXTREMELY heard (especially Ford! They have VERY hard clears).


Nice to see someone else who knows what they are talking about. :buttrock

Not true. A rotory cuts through the clear coat and eliminates the swirl when the right compounds and pads are used. This is why you have to be careful. PC's don't create enough heat. They are safer to use but useless in "eliminating" the swirl.

Not true. A rotory cuts through the clear coat and eliminates the swirl when the right compounds and pads are used. This is why you have to be careful. PC's don't create enough heat. They are safer to use but useless in "eliminating" the swirl.
Then explain how you can have a swirl free finish without polishing/waxing with a PC.

Both do the same job, the PC is safe due to its random, and indirect drive system. Put too much pressure on the PC, and you will notice that it bogs down and stops rotating. A rotary is a direct-drive system that will not bog down, which is where the danger comes into play.

I believe you have a misconception about what 'swirls' really are.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/wolfstrong/detailing/Image28.gif

You will notice the small 'scratches' and the big scratch. The big one, since has gone past the clear coat, would be something you need touchup paint for. The only way to 'remove' a swirl is to level the surrounding area to the bottom of the scratch. Considering that a PC WILL get a swirl free finish if you have the patients, then that would mean they do the same thing. The PC WILL generate heat, but heat isn't what removes swirls. Swirls are taken out with the polish that you use, and the PC/Rotary are used to work the polish in (and with diminishing abrasives, break them down). While both can do this, the PC, not being a direct drive system like the rotary, doesn't have the power to work in/break down the more aggressive compounds.

I REALLY hope that clears it up for you. Rotary is just a faster more efficient and more effective way to do the exact same thing the PC does!

Hate to burst your bubble, but that is EXACTLY what a rotary does. A rotary just does the job faster and is able to work with harder paint, whereas a PC is not able cut through extremely hard paint. German clears tend to be soft, whereas an American clear from the 90s-present will be EXTREMELY heard (especially Ford! They have VERY hard clears).

I agree with Blink, the only E36 I polished was a silver M3. That clear was as hard as maybe a vette, well close anyway.

Heck the first time I polished my E38 with a PC, I had about 15 hours over a few days into it. So that one was not soft either.

Scale of 1-10, 10 being the hardest clear.
Audi/VW have very hard clears. 10
The corvettes C5 and C6 are rock hard. 10+
Silver E36 M3 9
calypso red E38 7-8
Black 01 Expedition and I would rate it a 5-6 out of 10.
Red 03 F-250 and I would also give that a 5-6.
04 Black Porsche TT very soft 3
Black F430 very soft as well 3
04 Dodge durango 6

I do read that the Jet? black newer E90s are very soft.

Then explain how you can have a swirl free finish without polishing/waxing with a PC.

Both do the same job, the PC is safe due to its random, and indirect drive system. Put too much pressure on the PC, and you will notice that it bogs down and stops rotating. A rotary is a direct-drive system that will not bog down, which is where the danger comes into play.

I believe you have a misconception about what 'swirls' really are.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/wolfstrong/detailing/Image28.gif

You will notice the small 'scratches' and the big scratch. The big one, since has gone past the clear coat, would be something you need touchup paint for. The only way to 'remove' a swirl is to level the surrounding area to the bottom of the scratch. Considering that a PC WILL get a swirl free finish if you have the patients, then that would mean they do the same thing. The PC WILL generate heat, but heat isn't what removes swirls. Swirls are taken out with the polish that you use, and the PC/Rotary are used to work the polish in (and with diminishing abrasives, break them down). While both can do this, the PC, not being a direct drive system like the rotary, doesn't have the power to work in/break down the more aggressive compounds.

I REALLY hope that clears it up for you. Rotary is just a faster more efficient and more effective way to do the exact same thing the PC does!

Perhaps if you have all day to wear down the swirl and you use a filling type polish you will effectively "hide" the swirl, but you won`t completly remove it. With a black car you need to remove them, and a PC will not do it. I have been succesful in removing all but the deep scratces on your graph with my rotory. Notice I said remove not fill. So that said, I respectfully disagree with you.

Well, I'll chime in with my $0.00000002 (after taxes).

I've removed light swirls with a pc and the correct pad/product combo. Here's a black Porsche before and after and it took the better part of a day to complete.

Before:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/Totoland/Other%20Cars%20Detailed/PorscheDoorScratches.jpg

After:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/Totoland/Other%20Cars%20Detailed/PorscheAfterThreeQtrRear.jpg

That said, it can be done but will take a long time.

A rotary will speed up the process because of the power and heat generated by the tool (with the attendant care taken).

530i Quarter swirled

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/Totoland/July07_BMWs/530i_QtrPanelSwirls.jpg

After compounding but before polishing/glazing

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/Totoland/July07_BMWs/530i_QtrPanelSwirlsCompounded.jpg

So, both tools will do the job. Safely goes to the porter-cable and experience goes to the rotary.

Hope that helps you.

Toto

I agree with Blink, the only E36 I polished was a silver M3. That clear was as hard as maybe a vette, well close anyway.

Heck the first time I polished my E38 with a PC, I had about 15 hours over a few days into it. So that one was not soft either.

Scale of 1-10, 10 being the hardest clear.
Audi/VW have very hard clears. 10
The corvettes C5 and C6 are rock hard. 10+
Silver E36 M3 9
calypso red E38 7-8
Black 01 Expedition and I would rate it a 5-6 out of 10.
Red 03 F-250 and I would also give that a 5-6.
04 Black Porsche TT very soft 3
Black F430 very soft as well 3
04 Dodge durango 6

I do read that the Jet? black newer E90s are very soft.
Also remember colors will vary the paint hardness as well. A white or silver tends to be MUCH harder than a black/blue/red. There are many variables that come into play here, so generalizing is the best we can do. In reality, the only way to truly know is to get right into it.

You will find that while yes, the PC takes much longer, it will still REMOVE defects. You do not need to fill them in to get a flawless finish. Thank you Totoland for posting those pictures.

I will not respond anymore off of this debate; if you guys want the facts, then go do it yourself because there is only so much you can read and learn without taking action.