Hi,

I ordered a new car from a bmw dealership, and i'm wondeirng what's the best thing to do with my 2002 325xi.

edmunds.com lists National base price for trade-in of 13,041, and adding in my options & mileage etc, it comes out to 16,100 -- for dealer trade-in (private party=17,700, dealer retail=19,500).

The salesguy of the bmw dealership tho showed me some website with "dealer auctions" and said a 2002 325xi can yield at most 11,000. Why the discrepancy? I thought edmunds is trying to collect trade-in values as accurately as possible? Or is the dealer just trying to screw me big time? He also didnt ask for options/mileage/etc at all...

Also, a second question: Is selling private party good? A friend of mine cautioned me that if you sell private party its hard to sell it "as is", becuase if there is some fault a few months down the road the buyer can sue you and you may owe the repair?

Please, share your trade-in experience with me.

Hmm I've never trade in before but from what I've heard, if you trade in with the dealer, you can't negotiate the price of the new car that you're buying. They usually take the trade in for more, well that's what happened in my brother's case. He had a '98 accord and he got it for 3k more than what edmunds said for the trade in value but he can't negotiate the price of his new bmw. That's what I know about trade ins, hope it helps.

I've bought and sold about 15 cars in my life, and it is hard to get Edmunds or Kelley Blue book or NADA. Use that as a starting point and go down from there until you sell it. Also, selling a car "as is" is pretty standard. It's not a house, it's a car, and you aren't responsible for how reliable BMW made it (unless you unsafely altered something). People can sue for anything, but I've never heard of that before.

Tell them what you want. I want 13K for my car and the car at 1,500 above invoice. You have nothing to lose if they don't take the offer.

Hmm I've never trade in before but from what I've heard, if you trade in with the dealer, you can't negotiate the price of the new car that you're buying. They usually take the trade in for more, well that's what happened in my brother's case. He had a '98 accord and he got it for 3k more than what edmunds said for the trade in value but he can't negotiate the price of his new bmw. That's what I know about trade ins, hope it helps.
Not true, make sure you don't let them screw you on that, those are 2 separate transactions. I'd negotiate the deal on the new car 1st, lock that down, then negotiate the trade-in. Now granted if you get a good deal on the new car, they will try to screw you on the trade-in, but still it is easier to see what you are getting that way. They will try to play tricks to make you think they are giving you a goo deal by increasing tradein value but in fact you might have lost money. Put a range for yourself for the new car (say 1500 below retail) and negotiate that, then put a range for your trade-in (say 13-15K) and negotiate that. If you don't like the trade in deal, sell it privately, but you know you still got the deal you want on the new car. However be prepared to wait a while to sell it privately and be ready to deal with idiots test driving your car. If you are not comfortable with that, just take the loss and trade it in for a lower value. You do get some tax savings with the tradein so you might want to take that into consideration.
However, do yourself a favor and negotiate and nail down the new car price 1st.

Dealers will give you more for the trade in to make you feel better but not on the new car. Lets say there is a 5K profit to work with, that's about all they can do between them both.

Go to a CARMAX and get a quote to see how far off they are. You are trading it in at the dealer so it doesn't matter what the auction price is, they should be able to sell it on their lot.

Sounds to me like he's quoting auction base price, not how your car with it's options is going for at the auctions.

A smart thing to do if you can is to take your trade-in out of the new deal, it just adds another layer of complexity to the deal for them to play shell games with.

I made my deal without the trade-in, because really what they give you for trade in should have nothing to do with the price of the car. Then I asked for an offer and my SA went to the same information you're talking about, to see what they're going for at auction, and told me between 12,500 and 12,900. He called around to several dealerships who sell my make of car to see what he could get for it and they wouldn't offer more than $11,500 because 'it was a value model', which wasn't the truth, I had package 1 but they were just quoting without options.

Long story short, go to CARMAX if there is one in your area and see what they can give you. They were closest to Edmunds for me, offered 13k and it took the trade in completely out of the new deal.

Lets say there is a 5K profit to work with, that's about all they can do between them both.
This is what makes me mad, and what I mean by shell games. Introducing a trade-in means extra profit for the dealer, there's some risk but chances are they'll make at least a little money off of that trade-in. It shouldn't mean that the profit has to be split between the two cars. Instead, they act like they can give you a fair trade-in value but they have to cut out your discount on the car or increase your interest rate to make up for 'money lost on the trade', then they go sell off the trade to another dealer with a markup or to a private party for thousands more.

Somebody linked the edmunds.com article where they put a mole into the network.

The bottom line is if you have the knowledge you can't be taken for things. Do the research, come in with print outs, and stick to your guns. Sometimes they just need to get rid of a car and work it out.

When I leased my Touareg, I learned a lot. The first time we looked at them they wanted about $800/month. By the time I drove home, it was $516/month. All by waiting and knowing they needed to sell the car.

Maybe list your car for 15-16K and try selling it. It's not as "hard' as people make it. It's just time consuming.

Maybe list your car for 15-16K and try selling it. It's not as "hard' as people make it. It's just time consuming.
Indeed it is time consuming and sometimes frustrating because it seems used BMWs are idiot magnets for some reason, people somehow assume BMW owners overprice their used cars and want to get it for 20% off what you are asking for, then they realize they can't really afford it, they just go for the test drive then make up lame excuses. In any case, the effort may be worth it because you'll get a closer number to what you want/what the car deserves.

Don't forget to negotiate the options.

It's a zero sum game to the dealer. A dealer has so many things to work with in selling a new car to try and make its profit: sale price, fees, financing, extended warranties, accessories, etc. If it comes down "too much" in one area, it will try to make it up somewhere else. This works well for a dealer when a customer is focused on less than all of the factors (e.g., buyer thinks he got a great deal by getting $800 over invoice, but doesn't realize he paid $300 in fee mark-up and 1% mark-up on the financing).

A trade-in just adds one more factor for the dealer to use in making its profit, and it can be a huge factor. If the dealer gives you more for your trade, it will not come down as far on the sale price of the new car (and, of course, all the other factors are in play, too). Just like many dealers try to work a deal off monthly payment, many dealers try to work a deal off of "net different"- i.e., the difference between what you are paying and what you are getting for the trade-in. Usually when a dealer does that, it is difficult for the buyer to know exactly what he is really paying (in sale price and fees, etc.) and what he is really getting for his car. This, of course, is exactly what the dealer wants- a confused customer, which is much easier to make money off of than a focused and fully informed customer.

In order to make sure you get a good deal (or at least understand the deal you are getting), you need to negotiate every component of the deal (sale price, trade-in, fees, financing, etc.) separately, and don't let the dealer talk you into "mashing" everything together.

Fortunately, my dealer doesn't play these games. When I went in to order my new car, my CA asked me whether I wanted to work down from MRSP or up from invoice. I said up from invoice, she pulled out the dealer's invoice (which, of course, I matched against the invoice I got off the forum), and away we went. We also went through every fee and the financing end of it. It was really a piece of cake, which is a function of (1) my doing my homework before going into the dealership, and (2) my dealer not being "one of those dealers."

Edmunds advises that you don't even discuss a trade-in until you've finished negotiating for the new car. If the dealer asks if you have a trade-in, just say that's something you can talk about separately. Despite what he might say, it has absolutely nothing to do with the new car you're trying to buy from them so tell them you'll discuss that as a separate transaction. PK08 is right...if you let them make it another factor in the deal, it will become another source of profit for the dealer.

Basically the dealer is selling you a car for above its value. Meanwhile, you're selling him a car for below its value. Guess who's making all the profit.

Read this from Edmunds. "Confessions of a Car Salesman". It's long but well worth your time when you're talking about a $35k+ transaction.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

Your post sounds like one I would have posted a week ago. I had a 2002 325i with Premium PKG, and Sports PKG. Edmunds, KBB and other sites appraised my car between 15 and 17,500 thousand. I would have been happy to get $15,000. When I went to the dealer, they told me not freak out but the best they could give me was in the very low $13,000.

I listed my car on Craigslist and had two very interested parties but only would give me between $13,500 and 14,000. I sold it for $14,500 and although I felt uncomfortable to sell my car for what I perceived to be a real low price given its great condition, I felt that it was better than trying to trade it in at some dealer.

I negotiated a price of $38,000 for an 07, 328i with Premium, Sports, and Xenon without any added cost other than TL and saved myself a headache.

The morale of the story? It is a pain in the rear to sell a used car but it is worth it not having to give free money to a dealer.

Your post sounds like one I would have posted a week ago. I had a 2002 325i with Premium PKG, and Sports PKG. Edmunds, KBB and other sites appraised my car between 15 and 17,500 thousand. I would have been happy to get $15,000. When I went to the dealer, they told me not freak out but the best they could give me was in the very low $13,000.

I listed my car on Craigslist and had two very interested parties but only would give me between $13,500 and 14,000. I sold it for $14,500 and although I felt uncomfortable to sell my car for what I perceived to be a real low price given its great condition, I felt that it was better than trying to trade it in at some dealer.

I negotiated a price of $38,000 for an 07, 328i with Premium, Sports, and Xenon without any added cost other than TL and saved myself a headache.

The morale of the story? It is a pain in the rear to sell a used car but it is worth it not having to give free money to a dealer.

+1

I'll never trade-in a vehicle unless i'm either ridiculously rich (billionaire) or I'm in such a rush that my life depends on trading it in. The #1 reason people trade in their car is because they're too lazy to post ads, fill out paperwork, etc... For the comfort and ease of trading a car in, they give away thousands of dollars.

Never trade a vehicle in. Common sense should explain why. Sell it outright, craigslist or ebay will work just fine and you'll get what you want.

Your post sounds like one I would have posted a week ago. I had a 2002 325i with Premium PKG, and Sports PKG. Edmunds, KBB and other sites appraised my car between 15 and 17,500 thousand. I would have been happy to get $15,000. When I went to the dealer, they told me not freak out but the best they could give me was in the very low $13,000.

I listed my car on Craigslist and had two very interested parties but only would give me between $13,500 and 14,000. I sold it for $14,500 and although I felt uncomfortable to sell my car for what I perceived to be a real low price given its great condition, I felt that it was better than trying to trade it in at some dealer.

I negotiated a price of $38,000 for an 07, 328i with Premium, Sports, and Xenon without any added cost other than TL and saved myself a headache.

The morale of the story? It is a pain in the rear to sell a used car but it is worth it not having to give free money to a dealer.

The only reason a trade CAN be a good thing is if the difference between what you could sell the car for, exceeds what the trade difference between the trade value and cost of the car. In most states (if not all), they can only tax you on the difference between the trade value and the new car cost. So, if you got more than the lost tax advantage, you did well. If you only got a little more selling it, but did not cover the tax savings, you didn't. If for example the dealer had given you the $16K you thought your car was worth, you would have saved whatever the tax rate is on $16K. In Florida, that would equal $1,120. So, you need to factor in the tax advantage as part of your calculation, not just what they offered in trade vs. what you could sell it outright for. I'm not sure I'm explaining this too well though.

The morale of the story? It is a pain in the rear to sell a used car but it is worth it not having to give free money to a dealer.


I ordered a 335i a month or so ago and once I had the deal on the new car I asked the dealer what he would give me on my 02 530i, the dealer said he would consider my trade closer to the time when we did the lease paperwork. I knew that I was going to get screwed and tatoo'd on that deal so before I went to the dealer I took my car to CarMax. Trade in ranged from $14k to $17K for the mileage. They offered $16.5k
The dealer said he could maybe give me $12k. I laughed at him and showed him a similar one on his lot that he is asking $24k (at least 3k overpriced) and said he must be nuts if he expects to make that kind of profit. I didn't even give him a chance to counteroffer me, and would rather put the car in storage than give the car to them.

I didn't have the time or energy (new baby and busy work/travel schedule) to sell it on my own for maybe a thousand or two more, so instead I sold it to Carmax.

Dealing with trade is why I am thinking I am going to stick with leasing cars from now on. Tired of dealing with the dealers and or people that think ever person selling a car is in distress. Sold my 993 a few months ago and I think I had to back out of the deal a time or two before he understood that I did not have to sell the car and if he asked me for one more penny off the price I would not sell to him at any price. People!

Dealing with trade is why I am thinking I am going to stick with leasing cars from now on. Tired of dealing with the dealers and or people that think ever person selling a car is in distress. Sold my 993 a few months ago and I think I had to back out of the deal a time or two before he understood that I did not have to sell the car and if he asked me for one more penny off the price I would not sell to him at any price. People!
+1, my 1st car selling experience and could be my last. Really sick of dealing with people and my time also costs money. The dealer offered 2K (allegedly through a 3rd party since they don't carry 10 yr old cars on their lot) and I know I can get 6-7K for it as is! I will keep trying to sell it above 7K till winter hits.