Hey fellow e21 nuts. I got a garrett turbo and manifold that is set up for 7 pounds and specifically for the m10. I am pretty clueless about what the rest of the install will entail. I'm basically just looking for the stock turbo thing, not wild or rowdy, just an extra 50hp. Can I just run a pipe from the turbo to the throttle body if there is no intercooler, or do I need the turbo intake as well. (As I said I'm cluleess)I know I need to figure out how to make the cold start injector come on under boost, but I'm not sure how. Is that pretty much it, just bolt on and connect the lines? Do all turbos need to have oil lines running to them and if so whats the best way to do that? I'd basically just like to simulate the Century setup if possible. If anybody could give me some pointers or point me towards some resources I'd sure appreciate. THX

Guess my board surfing skills need work

Usually You'll get a lot better e21 specific info here. There are a lot of guys here with turbos.

Do you plan on running K jetornic still?

If so you will need to route the outlet of the air plate to the compressor intake of the turbo and then route the outlet of the compressor to the intake manifold. You can run without an intercooler, but I wouldn't recommend it. Turbos need an oil inlet and drain line, and maybe even coolant lines depending on what type of garrett turbo you have. Inlet line can be tapped from the oil filter. The outlet must drain straight down from the turbo and into the engine above the oil level, so your option here is to either tap a fitting into the lower side of the engine block or weld a fitting onto the oil pan. You also have to remember that as the engine hits boost fuel requirements go up. On a cis system this extra fueling is done by lowering the control pressure using a vaccum/boost sensing warm up regulator ( I believe these have an extra fitting on the top of WUR for a vaccum line. You might also want to considering upgrading the fuel distributor, the stock one may have problems at 7/8 psi without another injector installed. Search around on the e21 board and you will find jrcook's setup, which is a perfect example of a well built CIS turbo car. Doug (uberpanzer) has a century turbo kit and is a good example of what can be done with the stock system. Good luck!

..Phew I don't want to even count the amount of grammer mistakes I have in that paragraph.

Also don't forget about gauges and a wideband 02 setup, those will really help with tuning. I'm sure you'll get more than just 50 hp gain at 7 psi.

Thanks, yeah I started reading over there and realized I was in the right spot after all. So I'm back begging for knowledge. Anybody know the best way to go about retarding the timing.? I want my fifty extra ponies. Thought you guys might like to check out what I snagged for $350. It ain't pretty, sure hope it works, any thoughts or opinions as to how to go about installing it on my stock m10 320is greatly appreciated. Like I said before I'm no pro mechanic and I know next to zip about turbos. Thanks again:buttrockhttp://i9.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/aa/c7/8c15_1.JPG

That's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. I think I read I can use the WUR off an audi 500turbo and the fuel distributor off a volvo 240? I am going to look all that stuff up, thanks again.

BTW Nice ride, dig the blacked out wheels.

Thanks man, sadly I sold them awhile ago for some bigger bbs ones that I still haven't finished.. haha. I'm no expert either, just go through and read the various turbo setups that have been done for e21s and other bmws. I learnt alot over the past year just looking at various setups done in the forced induction section and on e30tech. Yes you can use a audi WUR and volvo 240 turbo fd, infact that;s probably the best way to go.

I definitely got a little research in my future (understatement), that's ok I like it. it always pays off in the end. I just got done looking at cooks car, that's not a bimmer anymore, thats a scrimmer. Holy crap. It sounds like your right, I read 7psi gets him 180 somthin at the wheels. I could live with that easily. actually that would be pretty nutty/fun. As for th audi wur and the volvo fd, that's got my name all over it. There's probly close to twenty 240's at my local pick and pull at any given time. Now I just need to figure out which cars had intercoolers and I'll be turboed fr less that 500 bucks. I feel like I'm stealing:devillook:buttrock

Thought you all might enjoy checking out the other photo. Anybody got one similar, I'd really love to check out a couple pics if you do.http://i4.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/aa/c7/8c33_1.JPG

Here's what is getting the turbo. file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/HP_ADM%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg

http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa247/320ispolaris/?action=view&current=armouredsaint.jpg

I guess I could have saved some time/space by checking the FAQ. Thanks for the write up JR

Which is the best one to get?

looks like the guys are steering you in the right direction. There are 4 of us (to my knowledge) that are running CIS turbo setups, and each setup is different.

looks like a decent sized turbo. With the top mount it should be much easier to route your inlet pipe from the AFM and your charge pipe to the intake. Getting my charge pipes to run the way they are was a ballet/juggling act that took alot of planning and time.

The cheapest and easiest way to retard timing is with a volvo 240t ignition canister. If you're going to use a volvo 240t AFM and FD it will require custom mounting, I don't think it will fit in the stock location on the 80-83 e21. I would also recommend the volvo 240t WUR over the audi 5000s. I have both, and the volvo unit is a little easier to hook up due to the shape of the vacuum ports, plus the control pressures were already tuned to work well with the 240t FD.

If you're staying with a low boost setup, an easier option might be to run the stock FD on the earlier 2.0L AFM to give you better air flow. Then you can keep things right where they are.

I hit 188 rwhp (220 bhp) set at 7 psi but my wastegate is too small to hold it at 7 psi, so I was getting boost creep up to 10 psi above 5500 rpm. So really that was 188 whp at around 10 psi. I'm now set to 12 psi and hit full boost below 3000 rpm. It hits hard and I have wheel spin in 2nd gear on my sticky Azenis rt-615's. :evil2

Right now I'm at the point where I'm out of fuel, and I have my system pressure bumped up 10 psi over stock (well, stock volvo, that is..) and I'm running a porsche 911 turbo fuel pump. At 12 psi I start lean out at 6k, but that's ok for now, I'd rather have the power at a lower rpm and just shift earlier than turn the boost down and wind it to 7k. Once I get a wideband setup I will tinker again with fuel pressure and larger mercedes injectors and see if I can get more fuel out of my system. I like the obscurity and old school factor of k-jet enough that I don't want to go efi yet.

As for afr, I'm currently running a narrow band which isn't really good for tuning. It's more like a dummy light, it tells me enough to know if I'm gonna be in trouble or not.

You will probably get a little more than 50 hp on 7 psi, but there is more to it than just boost #'s. I also have a 2.0L, ported/polished head, mild cam, no fan, lightened flywheel, and a LOT of planning went into sizing the turbo, designing and fabbing the intake plumbing and exhaust to keep restriction to a minimum. I think there's a lot of power to be had in the details. I ported and port matched the turbine inlet to manifold, downpipe, compressor inlet and outlets, throttle body, intake manifold, and even spent a lot of time porting the air flow meter to maximize flow.

basicly what JR said will work, if you cant find the part, you can always go with the MSD Boost Timing Retard, i think its about $180.00 (when i bought it) and it works. If you are going to stick with low boost you wouldnt need an IC, but it would be a good idea so the motor runs cooler and the charged air is cooler resulting in more power.

I have run 15psi on the CIS system and the car didnt run so good, i think the cut off point for the system would be 12psi, anything after that, it is hard to control timing.

Also, dont forget to add a BOV, or you wont be happy.

Thanks for the wisdom guys , I hope I can tap into your experience a bit more when it get everything bolted on an into the tuning phase. I thought I read somewhere that I don't want a BOV but rather just a bosch bypass valve. There was a reason but I can't remember off hand what it was. I 'd love get the cool sound of a BOV but I don't want to sacrifice anything for it. I think I'm going to try to get the motor to run reliably before I start tinkering with it too much, I'd like to stick with lower gains anyway, because from what I read the stock clutch won't do the job although I did just have the diff rebuilt so that should hold up for awhile. Like I said, I'd just like to be able to hang with a neon let alone a 911 for now. So, the turbo WUR, a baypass valve, an intercooler, volvo turbo retard canister, a set of charge pipes, and run the oil lines and that about covers it? Thanks again for your input.

Man that car is sick. The more I look at your site the more I want to copy what you've got going. Only problem is i don't want to disassemble the car like you did. Too much down time, and my shop situation is shaky. I'll just bolt up and do the disassembly thing later. Anyway was wondering what clutch you are running. I'm thinking of swapping in a 2 liter short block that's left over from one of my 02s. It's got a lightened 228mm flywheel and a sachs HD clutch already on it, good enough? I've heard tell of toasted clutches under boost. It's kinda why I wanted to stay on the mild side for now. What are you running? Thanks for the help.

You can use a bov, I'm planning on using one off a dsm.

Anyway was wondering what clutch you are running. I'm thinking of swapping in a 2 liter short block that's left over from one of my 02s. It's got a lightened 228mm flywheel and a sachs HD clutch already on it, good enough?

You will be fine with the 228 mm clutch, especially if it is an HD clutch. It should handle anything you throw at it if you're staying with K-jet. The guys at Metric Mechanic tell me that clutch will hold 225 ft-lbs of torque stock. They say the 215mm clutch only holds about 155 ft-lbs stock. I ran a stock 215mm clutch for awhile and it started to slip in 5th after a few weeks. Now I'm running a TEP (who is supplied by clutchnet.com) 4 puc clutch disc with a stock pressure plate. If I could do it over again I'd go with the 228mm flywheel but I invested in the lighted fly before I turbo'd this thing.

I didn't really tear much down to turbo my car. I just pulled the oil pan to drill & tap the turbo drain and install a crank scraper, pulled the oil filter housing to drill & tap the oil supply line, and swapped a modified intake manifold on to use my e12 528i 65mm throttle body. The head and block I left untouched from my original engine build in 2000. The rest was all just homemade tubing.

For a BOV I used a 1st gen DSM blow off. It is set up to recirculate just in front of the turbo compressor and works great. They are cheap (<$50), and are excellent quality. Don't worry about the sound it makes, worry about how well it does its job... either way with my intake setup it makes plenty of blow off noise for me...

You should definately think about to 2.0 short block too, especially if it has flat top pistons. It will lower your compression to about 8:1. If you have the piano domed pistons I dont' think it will fit with the 1.8L head without some machine work.

A by pass valve and BOV function the same way, they let the charged air escape when the throttle is close. The only difference is that a by pass re-routes the air back into the system.

What you might have read is for current cars like the Audi turbo, saab etc that come with a turbo. The reason you need a "by-pass valve" is cause the ECU is programmed to have that charged air back into the system. If you put on a BOV (atmospheric meaning the air just escapes into the air and not back into the system) the car will run rich in between shifts because the extra air is not going back into the system.

For our cars it doesnt matter because we dont have ECU's, so you can either go with a BOV to vent atmosphericly, or re-route it back into the system. I have mine atmospheric.

In regards to the clutch, i also upgrade to the 228mm a week after i installed the turbo cause i was slipping from second gear on, and that was with a stock clutch.

You better be shooting flames when you shift if you're venting to atmosphere. Shoot, mine's done it a few times and I'm recirculating :flamethro

You better be shooting flames when you shift if you're venting to atmosphere. Shoot, mine's done it a few times and I'm recirculating :flamethro

Nope, not shooting flames at all.

I didn't really tear much down to turbo my car. I just pulled the oil pan to drill & tap the turbo drain and install a crank scraper,

You should definately think about to 2.0 short block too, especially if it has flat top pistons. It will lower your compression to about 8:1. If you have the piano domed pistons I dont' think it will fit with the 1.8L head without some machine work.

What about tapping the oil drain into the front timing cover? Easier to get at.

I do really want to put the 2L in it. thing is the block has the forged JE 10:1 pistons in it, which definitely have some serious domes and are unusable for this project. Basically unusable on anything but race fuel for that matter. So I'll need to swap pistons at the very least. Plus I might as well rebuild the cyl head while I'm at it cause I think it needs valve guides. Funny how costs ad up isn't it?

I'm thinking I'll just bolt it up with the simplest system actually making a minimum of power so the clutch will hold up for awhile and then build a dedicated turbo block out of the 2L as funds allow, yet still being able to run the turbo in the mean time and pass a couple cars on the freeway. It's got nothing from 50-80.

Doesn't having a BPV help keep the turbo spooled up rather than wasting that pressure by venting it too the atmosphere? Lessening the lag. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to shoot flames in between shifts. It's good for scaring old people and little children. I keed.

When i had my cis turbo, 1980 vw rabbit truck, i kept it real simple. Callaway manifold, t04, simple charge pipe directly to the throttle. Didnt use an intercooler, no additional injectors, no volvo parts. Put a blitz BOV on after blowing the intake piping off a few times. Didnt have to drill to get oil, there was already a factory plug you can take out and get it from there. As for the drain i just bought an oil pan from vwturbo.com that came already fitted with the drain i needed.

I ran 7psi and it really woke the car up. At about 5500 rpm, it started breaking up. It was prolly running out of fuel from the stock rabbit FD. I just wanted to keep that car simple because it was my dd. I wish i still had pics of it

Doesn't having a BPV help keep the turbo spooled up rather than wasting that pressure by venting it too the atmosphere? Lessening the lag. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to shoot flames in between shifts. It's good for scaring old people and little children. I keed.


When u release the air, the air is gone and thats what help keeps the turbo spooled, the quicker the air is gone, the less air is stalled. Again, the BPV re-routes the air into the the intake man, (where there is vac.) so either way, a BOV or BPV wont help keep the turbo spooled anymore or less. Also, my car has never shoot flames in its life.

For the CIS system, either BOV or BPV will work just fine, the results will be the same :)

BoostedE21: Thanks for the clarification. I've got maximum boost on order so once i read that the ignorant questions should get less :)

ProjectP: I wish you had pics too, those caddys are cool. Did your calloway manifold resemble mine in the pic? I have no idea who the manufacturer was, guess it doesn't really matter just curious.

anytime, good luck with everything and if you have anymore questions, just ask :D

Hey Boosted I was surfing around and found a 83 alpina 320 on the LA Craigslist for a $1000. Epsilon wheels, needs a battery Noticed you were in So Cal. I'd go grab it in a heartbeat if I was down there. Thought you might like to know. Later :D

Hey Boosted I was surfing around and found a 83 alpina 320 on the LA Craigslist for a $1000. Epsilon wheels, needs a battery Noticed you were in So Cal. I'd go grab it in a heartbeat if I was down there. Thought you might like to know. Later :D

really, ill look it up.thanx

ProjectP: I wish you had pics too, those caddys are cool. Did your calloway manifold resemble mine in the pic? I have no idea who the manufacturer was, guess it doesn't really matter just curious.

Yea my callaway manifold was like that one, it was a basic cast low mount turbo manifold. Only thing i didnt like was it was a low mount right against the firewall, kinda a pain to work on.

Sorry I hadn't seen this earlier, but it looks like everyone else has you in the right direction so far.

So, I'm running about 5.5-6.0 PSI, stock everything. I still have the stock retard canister on as well. The car has had some issues with the turbo, although some have worked themselves out, possible ignition issues I think Daryl may have resolved for me at Fest (loose plug wire :( ). I am running about 14.7:1 AFR at idle (once warmed up) and about 12.2:1 on boost. This is according to the AEM AFR gauge I've got, very nice unit, I HIGHLY recommend it. It is installed in the manifold in place of the factory O2 sensor for now. Factory sensor controls nothing, just has an idiot light on the dash. Newer cars (esp OBDII) would be hard pressed to run correctly without the factory sensor intstalled. ANYWAY, Here (http://www.dcsports.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67) is a link to the gauge I've got, I'm pretty sure I got it a lot less than this. But it comes with everything you need, the Wideband O2 sensor, gauge, wiring, etc. All you need to do is install the gauge and the O2 sensor and run the wires. Might need to get a bong welded onto the exhaust to stay legal with the factory O2 sensor, which I will be doing once I replace my exhaust piping in the next 6months or so. This will help you figure out if you are running too lean or rich, and then figure out what parts you should be looking at. I was in the same boat, too many fuel parts and not enough info to know which ones I needed. This gauge is telling me I'm not going to blow anything up yet, although there is still some room for improvement. Although you are going to be running a bit more boost than I am currently by the sound of it...

Clutch - I'm running a HD clutch, I can't remember if it is 215mm or 228. I also got mine from Top End, who said this was fine for a NA M10 (which mine was at the time). I'm not sure if it is going to live a long life now though, esp if I keep launching it off the line at autoX's. The throw-out bearing is making some evil noises, I'm hoping this will survive another year but who knows. My own fault for upgrading to a turbo AFTER doing the clutch...although I was never planning on it before it dropped in my lap.

Intercooler - They are great, they help tons, esp if running more boost, but aren't a deal-breaker on a lower boost set-up. If you are wanting to run 7psi though, this MAY be the way to get it done while still using mainly the BMW factory CIS bits instead of a ton of the Volvo stuff. Worth looking into, after you get your new book of course.

Passing cars on the freeway. HEHE!!! You're going to be SOOO happy once you've got this set-up going. If that is one of your main concerns, you'll be very pleased. 5th gear 50-80 is a night and day difference. And there are still 2 lower gears to use if you want. :D

Ok, i have been doing alot of reading on boosted e21s and i have kind of a dumd question, what is all this talk about k-jet and CIS? is this the stock injection system that you are talking about? Is there and easier way of boosting an m10 via using a different system like EFI? Apoligies for digressing like this.

Ok, i have been doing alot of reading on boosted e21s and i have kind of a dumd question, what is all this talk about k-jet and CIS? is this the stock injection system that you are talking about? Is there and easier way of boosting an m10 via using a different system like EFI? Apoligies for digressing like this.

Yes the k-jet ie CIS system is the mechanical fuel injection.

This system isnt hard to boost if you want to run low psi, but once you get up to about 12psi+ thats where you will find that tuning the system is not that easy.

In regards to the EFI, yes you can get a system such as the SDS EFI and convert it. You would have to take out all the old fuel injection and get proper parts for installing the EFI.

Boosted: did you check that Alpina?

Uber: Yeah I been getting treated quite well. The other boosters have been quite helpful to say the least. As for the 02 sensor not doing anything , that's pretty cool, no need for a second "bong":lol, but seriously I thought it had something to do with the lambda, who needs it eh? I'm definitely going intercooler though. I figure I'll be safe to run without an A/F gauge that way. I basically just want to cobble things together in the short term and then get all the parts for the 240hp monster as funds allow then transplant it complete. You think I could get by with just the intercooler and the retard canister? Your car looks like it earl scheib doger blue, that's cool. You should get some coil overs though, that thing is rolling big time, and you would smoke just about anybody at an AX. I had em on an 02 and it was planted flat.4 bangers DO rule, you got that right. Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up.:round

Yeah i e-mailed the guy for pics and nothing yet.

Boosted: did you check that Alpina?

Uber: Yeah I been getting treated quite well. The other boosters have been quite helpful to say the least. As for the 02 sensor not doing anything , that's pretty cool, no need for a second "bong":lol, but seriously I thought it had something to do with the lambda, who needs it eh? I'm definitely going intercooler though. I figure I'll be safe to run without an A/F gauge that way.
The Lambda system does do something, it adjusts afr under part throttle conditions and it will give you better gas mileage and cleaner running. What Doug means is that you don't need it for the car to run well if the mixture is adjusted properly. At WOT the lamda system is shut off for max enrichening through the frequency valve (what the ecu uses to control mixture), so it won't hurt power to have the system operational.

I would not recommend running without at LEAST a narrow band AF gage ($50) and maybe even a stand alone knock sensor. An intercooler will not make up for those or make up for poor tuning. If you're lean or your timing is advanced too far, the motor is going to suffer, intercooler or not.

I believe there are wide band systems that can send an anolog signal to the ecu and send a wide band signal to the wide band meter at the same time, using the same 02 sensor. This eliminates the need for 2 O2 bungs.

Thanks JR, I was going to read about that in my Probst book, cause after I wrote that I started thinking about it and remembered reading something to the effect of what you have written. I just hadn't gotten around to it. I see what you mean. OK, so I'll need to factor in the A/F gauge and a knock sensor into the project budget you have any recommendation on which knock sensor to get?. Last thing I want is to go through all this work and destroy the motor simply because it wasn't tuned right. As for the 2 bungs I was going to ask about that but you beat me to it. (wish maximum boost would show up) Thanks again.

Here is the link to the knocksense (http://www.viatrack.ca/)

If you're looking for a good wide band setup that also sends a narrow band output to the ecu, check out the plx m-300.