Im just wondering where is a good place for someone to look to begin to start a racing career. Im currently 20 and have a fairly limited budget due to being in the military but racing is seriously the only thing i want to do when i get out in 3 more years. The only racing experience ive had so far is about 5 years of racing R/C cars when i was younger cause parents wouldnt let me get involved in karting and probably about 50-60 laps on nurburgring in my 325I. But seriously for someone who doesnt make a ton of money and have a ton of resources to get started where should i try and start making a name for myself?

You have no chance. Money, connections, natural talent, and a young start/experience. You need all of them and a ton of at least one.

This is my goal too, however I've been racing for 10 years and have been around it my entire life and I still don't have any prospects. I'm typically not one to kill dreams, but racing for a job is more desirable than becoming a A list actor. I suggest that if youre serious, go to a 3 day skip barber. You will get a SCCA racing license and the instructors will tell you if you have any talent or not and if you're really good they will set you up with a team immediately. (I.E. Juan Pablo Montoya)

I will definetly go to skip barber as soon as i get back into the states i currently have 1 year left overseas then ill be stationed in florida which should make it a bit easier to get around and start doing some scca races and such. IF i hadnt of joined the air force id at least be sponsored in drag racing right now but i had to sign that damn contract and lose out. Plus drag racing is fun but i prefer road course racing over it big time.

Well the skippy HQ is in Sebring. Couldn't find a better place to try it out.

Where to start? The key isn't where...the key is when. It's VERY rare for someone to make a career out of racing while getting such a late start just like in any other highly competitive sport. How many guys pick up a basketball at age 20 and make it into the NBA?

I gave climbing the racing ladder a shot back when I was 21 and found myself racing against 18 year olds with 10+ years of experience. After a couple years, the money and time ran out...had to get a real job. The "good" news is that, unlike other sports, you can still become a VERY successful professional sports car driver later in life...you just probably won't be someone who makes their career at it. You'll have to create a career that gives you enough $$ and free time to break into racing...with enough money and enough talent, you may end up getting your rides and expenses paid for, or maybe even getting paid to drive.

For another story, check out Treadstone above...he seems to be a younger guy who has been racing for 10+ years, obviously has some $$ based on his list of cars, and hasn't made it as a professional.

Im just wondering where is a good place for someone to look to begin to start a racing career. Im currently 20 and have a fairly limited budget due to being in the military but racing is seriously the only thing i want to do when i get out in 3 more years. The only racing experience ive had so far is about 5 years of racing R/C cars when i was younger cause parents wouldnt let me get involved in karting and probably about 50-60 laps on nurburgring in my 325I. But seriously for someone who doesnt make a ton of money and have a ton of resources to get started where should i try and start making a name for myself?

Go find a quarter midget or a worn out late model dirt car. Find your local 1/4 or 3/8 mile dirt track (provided you actually live in the states and are just stationed in Deutschland). and run. That's probably your closest real chance at making a career racing.

-Charlie

you can still become a VERY successful professional sports car driver later in life...you just probably won't be someone who makes their career at it. You'll have to create a career that gives you enough $$ and free time to break into racing...

Unfortunately (for guys like me, who started in their late-20s), this is very true. I've seen the money that gets spent by individuals to do well in professional series. I quickly realized I'll probably never race professionally.

your best bet will be rally more than track, especially in germany. If you really want to get into track, you can start by running in one brand serie (like the clio cup in germany), budget is not "that" bad and if you win a championship after the second or third year, you can find some sponsorship and race in a slightly higher level. But basically you'll have on year to learn, a year to succeed, if you fail, you're done.
oh and forget single seater to expensive.
A good friend of mine now racing in the US paid $1.8M to race in GP2 last season and he only had the budget for 1/2 season. The year before minardi offered a driving seat in F1 for $4.5M. He almost dropped it all last year because he couldn't find a seat in a single seater series, altough he had loads of offer to drive in porsche cup serie and the likes. He had all the right connections to start with, his dad own a gokart track and a kart manufacturing facility, used to race himself so got him very good seats earlier on in his career but still, in more competitive series, if you don't have money you're not gonna win.

What's your best time from bridge to bridge at the ring? I have been there a few times myself, best time of 9.16s, once in the safety barriers. My friend did it in 8.37 with my car, after 5 laps, that's the kind of talent you'll be required to have.

Karting, karting, karting!!!!

Cheap seat time, good competition.

nowhere up when you are 20 and your racing against guy much lighter than you so it will take a lot to be competitive unless you're 110lbs

well its always good to know racing is just as bad as trying to get into politics in the states you need to have money and connections. Im currently not even stationed in germany any more im stationed on a little island in the azores for 12 more months then ill go to pensacola florida for my next base. Guess racing will just have to remain a hobby for me that i can only afford to do once a year or so specially since i have to get rid of my 325 when i leave here cause its a euro spec. thanks for the insight guys i really appreciate it.

I don't see how its IMPOSSIBLE. For example take F1, a driver starts out at around 8-14 years old, and it takes them 10 years to make it form karting to F1. In theory couldn't the OP be racing F1 by the time he's 32?

And speaking of Skip Barber. He didn't start racing til he was 22. Same with Paul Dana who went on to race in the IRL before his untimely death.

I wouldn't say its impossible jwf1999 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/member.php?u=48486), but it will be extremely hard. You're gonna have to make it your life to have a shot at it, and you're gonna have to work 10x harder than anyone else. Also you'll need the money, through sponsors or a 9-5 job, bank loan, whatever. But if you want it bad enough you'll find a way.

yea ill do the best i can i work about a 9-9 job atm being military and dont get paid crap so gotta do what i can.

forget about making it to f1. your chance is in sports car racing, i have friends who get paid respectively for spec miata racing. they get paid because theyre extremely good though.

Win the lottery!!!!!

Thee pieces of advice-

old Chinese saying, "The 2nd best time to plant a tree is today, the best time is 10 years ago"

Another wise piece I read on another board- "Do you want to race or just drive fast around a track, they are very different things"

The old classic- "How do you get to a Million dollars racing cars? Start with 2 Million"

Read the book: Fast Guys. Rich Guys, and Idiots

I didn't start racing until I was 31.

I wasn't overly fast nor was I rich.

I'd do it over again in a heartbeat.

I don't see how its IMPOSSIBLE. For example take F1, a driver starts out at around 8-14 years old, and it takes them 10 years to make it form karting to F1. In theory couldn't the OP be racing F1 by the time he's 32?

And speaking of Skip Barber. He didn't start racing til he was 22. Same with Paul Dana who went on to race in the IRL before his untimely death.

I wouldn't say its impossible jwf1999 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/member.php?u=48486), but it will be extremely hard. You're gonna have to make it your life to have a shot at it, and you're gonna have to work 10x harder than anyone else. Also you'll need the money, through sponsors or a 9-5 job, bank loan, whatever. But if you want it bad enough you'll find a way.

i will go out on a limb and venture to say that there will NEVER be a debut f1 pilot from the united states at age 32. In fact the only american driver out there right now that has a slight chance in f1 is marco.

im 15, but i cant really get into karting. How does a young'n like me start? Theres Maine indoor karting near me, and me and my dad are trying to get there.

i will go out on a limb and venture to say that there will NEVER be a debut f1 pilot from the united states at age 32. In fact the only american driver out there right now that has a slight chance in f1 is marco.


lol at scott speed, what a bad racer... but hes in F1 so hes better than all of us.

lol at scott speed, what a bad racer... but hes in F1 so hes better than all of us.

A bad racer? There's no question that he's an excellent driver. A F1 word champ? Probably not, but he's still one of the top racers in the world.

As for your desire to go racing...indoor karting is not what you need to be doing. You need to get out there in a competitive karting class racing against real competition.

You will get a SCCA racing license and the instructors will tell you if you have any talent or not and if you're really good they will set you up with a team immediately. (I.E. Juan Pablo Montoya)


LOL. Get a clue... JPM's dad paid his way for a long time before anyone knew who he was.

No one will 'set you up with a team immediately' just because you have some talent...

well its always good to know racing is just as bad as trying to get into politics in the states you need to have money and connections. Im currently not even stationed in germany any more im stationed on a little island in the azores for 12 more months then ill go to pensacola florida for my next base. Guess racing will just have to remain a hobby for me that i can only afford to do once a year or so specially since i have to get rid of my 325 when i leave here cause its a euro spec. thanks for the insight guys i really appreciate it.


I say don't ever give up on what you want to do. You never know what connections will come along sometime. Maybe its rare that a 20+ starting out in racing gets a good paying seat...but it has happened and who says you can't be one of those guys?

lol at scott speed, what a bad racer... but hes in F1 so hes better than all of us.

actually no, hes not in f1.

LOL. Get a clue... JPM's dad paid his way for a long time before anyone knew who he was.

No one will 'set you up with a team immediately' just because you have some talent...

JPM was discovered in america, granted his dad got him that far but money only goes so far. nice attempted flame. you wont touch me on racing, son.

actually no, hes not in f1.

hey you're right.

JPM was discovered in america, granted his dad got him that far but money only goes so far. nice attempted flame. you wont touch me on racing, son.

You've got it the wrong way...talent only goes so far. Money can take you all the way. You can all the talent in the world and not make it where you want to go, but with enough money, you can make it where you want to be without having top talent.

You should probably bother to understand where the opinions of someone like Vitolo come from before you start throwing down challenges about your supposed driving skill. There are multiple posters on this thread who have spent time in various levels of the karting and open wheel ladder. The idea that a Skippy instructor is going to see your talent and "set you up" with a team is LAUGHABLE. If a Skippy instructor knew someone who was looking for a driver, the last thing he's going to do is tell his student about it. Now, if you're a Skippy student with $$ who wants to go racing, you can probably get the instructor to hump your leg without any problems. If you had a Skippy instructor try to set you up with someone, you can guarantee that it was because the Skippy instructor saw a way to ride your back into a seat for themselves. People don't just decide to teach others to race for the joy of teaching...they do it so they can make connections to further their own racing career.

JPM was discovered in america, granted his dad got him that far but money only goes so far. nice attempted flame. you wont touch me on racing, son.

LOL. JPM came from a Diplomatic family. Pablo Montoya spent alot of money to send him to Europe in the mid 90's to race F3000. Williams 'discovered' him long before you first saw him wearing Target colors; He was testing F1 cars before Champ cars, son. He'll get a laugh when I tell him what you said though..

If you take anything from this thread, let it be this: The best talent to have in racing is a wealthy father, because it's a sport based on the golden rule... the one with the gold makes the rules.

Listen to Watts if you want to 'skip' learning the hard way.

People don't just decide to teach others to race for the joy of teaching...they do it so they can make connections to further their own racing career.

Actually thats exactly what happened to me. All I had was family higher up the ladder who are respected. The kid that taught me is already in a paid seat, with nothing to gain from me.

Start with karting. Im in ICC shifters. If you start going to the nationa stuff and place good theres always that oppertunity. A lot of drivers are picked from karting and move from there.

the thread starter is too old but there is a good opportunity in the red bull drivers search.

the thread starter is too old but there is a good opportunity in the red bull drivers search.

Shame that concluded about three years ago. Even if it still existed, it was very political.

Any other suggestions?

List of people to be banned from the Pro Motorsports forum:

1) BETO
2) Treadstone





lol @ Marco in F1...

Shame that concluded about three years ago. Even if it still existed, it was very political.

Any other suggestions?

:lol

:lol
hey Tom, good luck tomorrow! I was watching the live timing and you were putting in some quick laps in the last practice.
Jake

Also depends on what your definition of "pro" is.

Some racers fill out their race weekend schedules by working as instructors at high performance driving schools during the week (at locations like Mid Ohio, Laguna Seca, etc). Others work as test drivers for manufactures during the week. They spend a lot of time on planes going from gig to gig. They are professional drivers who have a well rounded resume of driving experience. You could say that their weekend racing pads their week day resume.

One guy I know spent 4 weeks in Italy working for Rolls Royce. They were doing print and video of one of their new cars. He drove the car from location to location for print shoots, and drove the car in the video shoots. He also teaches high performance driving, and has driven in the Grand Am Cup.

Nothing like having a rich connected family though.

I was in this same boat when I was 18, I was debating giving up all I know here, my family, my friends, my job, and picking up to leave to the U.K. to make life out there and try to do some racing overseas. I am not rich, I do not have an unlimited budget, so I know it would have been really hard.

I was young and naive but somehow talked myself into some sense. I was raised by a single mom, I have no money coming from mom or dad to pay for racing, so my ticket is whatever I pay for. I was trying to keep my dream alive when I realized I would have to make a choice, risk giving up my future for a chance at a payed racing career or try to just race on a pro level on my own ticket.

I was in contact with a few drivers who race professionally in a paid seat, they go wherever the sponsors take them. I had one of them send me a whole bunch of literature on what pro drivers really do, its not all just racing. You have to offer more than just driving. The sponsors like to use the drivers to do PR stuff too, lunch's etc. You have to show your sponsors you can make their $ worth it.

-----------------------

Honeslty though I don't even know if racing professionally is even worth it. I know quite a few pro's who compete in paid seats, and ones who pay for themselves to compete and it seems like either way you are spending so much more effort to be on that level. On race day I am sure nothing can match that feeling you have competing in front of fans and getting recognition, but there are few who make it there on their own without having help financially, or having family who are already involved in professional motorsports.

At one of the more recent events I was at I was talking to Tommy Kendall and another driver Nico who both have competed in pro racing series and they both said if you can make a good living and pay for yourself to race with partial sponsorship for parts etc. then that is the way to go. Getting a paid seat (driving expenses) alone is hard enough to get, but getting paid to drive as well without bringing anything to the table is pretty hard considering there are 100's of drivers with the talent and some of them bring lots of money to the table and do not need to get paid.

For myself I have embraced that with all the politics and money involved in professional motorsports it might even be better just to keep it as a hobby and race in the smaller series for the FUN of the sport! Just because you are not competing in the professional series, does not mean you can't be competetive professionally. I will be satisfied if I can get myself to be competetive on a professional level, no matter what series or racing I am doing.

I want to keep it fun! Remember, if someone else is paying the bills, they make the rules. Find a way to pay your own bills racing and you will enjoy it alot more than you would if you do it under someone elses dime.

List of people to be banned from the Pro Motorsports forum:

1) BETO
2) Treadstone





lol @ Marco in F1...

hey hotshot, explain to me why marco tested with BAR and Gil really liked him? not to mention I have family pretty high in the business who have their ear to the ground. AND I just happen to know Michael and Marco from karting when I was a kid. I know more about f1 than you care to take in. stop trying to flame people because you dont know anything bro. give it up, people said the exact same thing when I told everyone in june that bourdais was going to f1.:nono

Shame that concluded about three years ago. Even if it still existed, it was very political.

Any other suggestions?

Yeah, I got pissed off when I was one month too old to qualify for it so I never looked it up again or payed attention to it. I'll bet they will start it up again now that allmendinger and speed are flops. my error

Back to the original subject.
Yes, you can still have a career in racing. But as you have heard it might not be as a driver. There is always a need for support crew. You won't be buying a house in Malibu next to Brad and Angelina however...

Yeah, I got pissed off when I was one month too old to qualify for it so I never looked it up again or payed attention to it. I'll bet they will start it up again now that allmendinger and speed are flops. my error

Don't count on it. Speed and Allmendinger are FAR from flops - Red Bull will still help them with all of the money they've spent bringing them up.

Not to mention they have some good Junior Team members in the ranks. Guys like John Edwards, Robert Wickens, and now Daniel Morad will all get good backing. Colin Fleming was also a substantial investment with alot of talent. Farming new drivers with a search is not gonna happen again for a long, long time.

And Bordais going to F1 was no surprise... his manager was trying to buy a piece of the STR team dude. Talk to your sources to see how much money Seabass brought...

Not to mention they have some good Junior Team members in the ranks. Guys like John Edwards, Robert Wickens, and now Daniel Morad will all get good backing. Colin Fleming was also a substantial investment with alot of talent. Farming new drivers with a search is not gonna happen again for a long, long time.
don't forget Patrick Long. He's a factory Porsche driver now, and has won at Le Mans (twice, maybe more), Spa, and has an ALMS driver's title.
Jake

don't forget Patrick Long. He's a factory Porsche driver now, and has won at Le Mans (twice, maybe more), Spa, and has an ALMS driver's title.
Jake
He's also consistent in the Ruby Tuesday DP Porsche in Rolex.

He's also consistent in the Ruby Tuesday DP Porsche in Rolex.
yeah. I wish they would go to a different chassis. The Porsche motorsport head said that they are doing all they can with the powertrain, so the problem isn't on their end.
Jake

patrick long is very good. however the red bull drivers search was designed to produce a successful american f1 driver. it failed

patrick long is very good. however the red bull drivers search was designed to produce a successful american f1 driver. it failed

Red Bull made the mistake of putting Speed in the STR seat instead of RBR. He should have had Coulthard's seat if he was going to produce any results, otherwise he didn't stand a chance in the Minardi he drove for the last <2 years.. but you can't blame him for taking what he could get because it's more than most will ever accomplish. F1/Europe is not kind to american drivers to begin with... it takes some thick skin to put up with the off-track bs. When youre familiar with the territory, it changes your perspective of what a good job he did especially considering the health problems he dealt with on top of everything.

I can vouch that many well-respected drivers here in the US who were not compared against the same barometer as he would not have done nearly as well.

This is my goal too, however I've been racing for 10 years and have been around it my entire life and I still don't have any prospects. I'm typically not one to kill dreams, but racing for a job is more desirable than becoming a A list actor. I suggest that if youre serious, go to a 3 day skip barber. You will get a SCCA racing license and the instructors will tell you if you have any talent or not and if you're really good they will set you up with a team immediately. (I.E. Juan Pablo Montoya)

I did a three day racing school and out if 16 people nobody could touch me. The head instructor did pull me aside at the end and said he was impressed with my speed and I should do well if I ever choose to race. One thing he did not do was refer me to a team. I'm sure I am not good enough(yet) but that sanario was never mentioned during the three days.

When finances and time allow I think spec Miata is for me. Cheap race car and fairly even playing field.

I did a three day racing school and out if 16 people nobody could touch me. The head instructor did pull me aside at the end and said he was impressed with my speed and I should do well if I ever choose to race. One thing he did not do was refer me to a team. I'm sure I am not good enough(yet) but that sanario was never mentioned during the three days.

When finances and time allow I think spec Miata is for me. Cheap race car and fairly even playing field.

I suggest talking to some of the good drivers out there and find out how much time they put into their career. Like anything else, you have to do it all of the time to hone your skills. Like we all know, that doesn't come cheap. If you are really that good, you have to do some soul searching and determine if you want to go down the path of a driver. It takes sacrifice and a lifestyle change. The odds are not in your favor and as long as you understand that, you'll do just fine.

Spec mazda is a somewhat cheap and good place to start