Any input.

Thanks

Not that I'm aware of. There are only a handful of examples of high output V12 engines, with turbo or super chargers. Dinan did some turbo charging a long time ago with the 7 and 8 series but they do not offer this anymore. Not that a old Stevie can't be bought but as a std. item it no longer exists. Motronix Motorsports in Toronto Canadia has done a 7 and 8 with twin superchargers. But I have a feeling Dave doesn't have everything all worked out in his retrofit because he won't reply to my emails regarding his progress. I wanted to know if they sold kits or even if he had it all worked out, which I doubt. He said in a bimmer.org/e31 post they were only making about 5psi boost on the 7. can't remember on the 8 but it was a little more. Mostly what rich people do is either send their car to Dinan or Korman and have the 6 liter stroke job done on it. In Europe you have more choices between who you want to oversize the engine but it's the same idea. The largest one I've seen were a 6.2 liter MVR and a 6.3 Koenig. But the results have not been higher in any case than 500bhp. Korman chalked that one up. The V12 top end of RPM seems to be 6500-7000 depending on who chips your EML. The M73 5.4L V12 engine is not the engine of choice to soup up because apparently the Motronic Software is unchangeable according to Jim Conforti. That's why his chips only go for the M70/S70 engines. S70 being the M motorsport engine used in the 850CSi. But it only has 378bhp stock. The 3 big things to get you to 405 are exhaust, Jim C chips, and extrude honed intakes along with stock air filters. No CAI with a K&N. Jim C did a test run of 4 850's back in the fall of 99 and they found the stock air filters actually decreased output. A stock 850 with the above 3 mods outproduced as stock CSI. A CSI with the above 3 mods ran about 450bhp with 300 rear wheel hp. See the charts of Seans and Steve C's car @ turner motorsports Jim C charts.

Now if you want more install the CSI camshafts, port and polish the heads and you get a little more, but then you have to pay Jim C to fly to your car and make a set of custom chips for the exact mods your doing. Strangely the CSI doesn't use larger valves. So a motivated person could open up the intake and exhaust sizes by 2mm and get even more. But now the cost per hp is going up steeply. The McLaren F1 6.0 liter V12 gives you about 620hp but it's a completely different engine, same with the LMR race cars.

I'm working on a solution with a single charger to run both banks. But as all R and D projects they take time.

Guy Simpson

Guy, Thanks for all the info.

Right now I have the Dinan engine and tranny chips. I also have K&N CAI's, but you think I should put the stock intakes back on? Do you have any recommendations on exhaust and extrude honed intakes, the Dinan is a little pricy.

I'm not looking to spend big money on my daily driver thats why I'm looking into a NOS kit. My mechanic recommended two 100shot kits for a 2.5 motor, one for each bank.

Brian

My last post was indeed confusing on the air intake issue and one statement clearly contradicted what I was supposed to be conveying. The 4 850's test with JC, had 2 cars with K & N replacement elements in the stock air boxes. Stock paper elements made more hp than the K & N. I don't know the particulars of why and probably they don't either, just a simple cause and effect test. So now everyone uses stock paper elements for e32/e31 V12 applications. No one has moded their car to make a ram air intake chamber with a K & N or CAI that I've seen. It would interesting to look at your setup.

If your CAI is truly isolated in it's design/plumbing, and it brings in cold air and not air which is coming through the radiator, leave them in. That should be very good. Some people just hang a tapered K & N off the inlet of the MAF sensor and think they did good. Wrong.

The e32 isn't a big draw for aftermarket stuff and we have to work harder to obtain what we need. Exhaust is now limited to Supersprint cat back, Racing Dynamics Euro catless or catback, and MK motorsport euro catless or catback. Triflow nada, Scorpion, nada Based on past e36 board comments I would not go with Remus, Borla, Ansa. Don't know what a Mozart is. RD and MK are the only suppliers of headers. I have a set of RD ss headers but I'm concerned they won't fit. The ASC+T hydraulic pump and steering mess looks like it's in the way but I'll know sometime in the next couple of months.
My RD system complete cost 1600 inc shipping, headers, catless piping, center muffler, rear muffler. Sounds very nice and a real noticeable diff from 1500 on up. It's been getting louder with useage and now from 3000 on up it has a nice rumble. All Dinan does is rip open a brand new muffler, take some guts out and puts it back together and charges up the rear for it. RD's look exactly like stock except are in 2 pieces, there is a joint between the center muffler and rear muffler, and are made in Italy. My system is the older aluminized steel. Newer cat back systems are all ss and more money. MK's system is all ss, costs lots and looks a little strange but I know it would work very well.

Extrude honed intakes take about 6-8 weeks and 800.00 going through extrude hone. If you like the aluminum finish make sure you specify or they will come back black.

Since you already have the chips leave em in. Once you get the exhaust system (cat back) and honed intakes, you should be running above 378bhp. Like I said after that comes the camshafts, and headwork. The heads although good flowing can be opened up 2mm on the intakes and exhaust to get even more. The CSI used the same valves as the stock engine. Go figure.

Since your car is pre 92 you have a much higher diff than me causing you to lose hole shot. 92 and later came out with the 3.64 LS diff. Your probably at 3.15 or lower. This will make a huge difference in accelleration. Dinan makes a 2400rpm hi-stall converter which would give you better launch if you stage the car first. But once rolling there is no effect. It just allows you to go 500rpm above stock stall rpm with the brakes on hard so when you let go and floor the throttle, your off the line perf increases. If you have another 1000 it's something to consider.

If you proceed with the NOS system post here and on both bimmer.org e31 and e32 sites with pics to show what your doing. the e31 board will love that. They have more gearheads than we do on the e32 board.


Guy

Hey Guy
I getting My 750 back today, after having a 200 shot of NOS installed. I'll post some pics and dyno results as soon as I can.

Here is a link to a supra forum about my M3. kinda funny.

http://www.supraforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=12&t=000048

So where are the pictures? You've had me waiting for a week now. I'm getting sleepy. Also where did you inject the gas to the engine?

The mechanic is waitng for two parts to arrive, which should have been here last Friday. All I need is a Y connection to tie the two tanks together, and a 12" extention because the hoses the kits came with reached floor of the trunk and stopped about 10" too short of the tanks. I'll stop by the shop on my way in to work in the morning and take a few pictures and post them.

The Engine is a little dirty, but what do you think.


http://www.imagehosting.net/images/brian8513/all.jpg

Very nice indeed!!! I can't wait until I hear more about how it runs. Thanks for posting on the e31/e32 boards for others to see. Why is there a limit switch on the throttle motor? Do you have system schematic of the NOS system. Not having been around one before I'd like to see one if you have it. Email it to guysimpson@go.com. Nice to see a 7 with BBS RKII's on it. When I was wheel shopping it was one of 5 finalists. I didn't get those and always wondered what it would have looked like. Are you going to dyno just to see what the numbers are?:D

Does it run yet? ".....need the info"

I need to refill the tanks. The mechanic used most of the NOS up testing it out. I will fill them up saturday and take it straight to the dyno. The mechanic thinks it will out run my M3 on the highway.

Just how long are you supposed to be able to run continuouly on NOS? Did the mechanic have anything to say about how it has run so far? I hope you have good cheap tires. This way you won't feel so bad about leaving so much rubber on the pavement in parrallel streaks. :eek:

Guy, I think this could be faster than my SC M3. I sent you an email earlier today. I thought I would get betweeen 10 & 13 1/4 mile passes out of the bottles but after looking at the NOS site it might be closer to 17 & 20. I have a 85 shot to each bank instead of the 100 shot. Here is a link inside the NOS site with some Q & A's.



http://nosnitrous.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/NOS/qa.html