My niece: 350z with Stillen stage 3 kit blower and intercooler, about 412 at the flywheel.
I have a stock E21. I have a mind to send the engine to Top End Performance and do the $3900 for a full performance rebuild, but have them hold the compression at 8.1, so I can turbo at around 15-20 psi.

I don't care if the engine only lasts 5k miles. I have to beat my niece at all costs, but I have to do it in my "Old fashioned" E21. There is family blood at stake, it runs the thickest, and the most angry.

It is these rivalries that are the most heated. I don't know why. I don't mind if my friend beats me in some 74 Camaro, but I just can't tolerate the snide inconsideration from my niece. I'm an old fart, but I run hard and am still vengeful. ;)

My 510 is ITC class, and about 140hp. It's for racing, but she gives it no credence. It's full race for its class, and she just sneers. She is putting a bottle in the 350z. This girl has NO respect for real corner-turners. (grrrr.)

I need to stack the deck for a serious non-stock vicious smack-down. And I have to do it with my 25 year-old car. Nothing would make me grin wider, or make me sleep more sound.

I've seen people's videos of 20 lb boost climbing to 140 mph like a monkey going up a tree.

It staggers me to see that.

I want that. And I'll pay what it takes to do it.

And this is never intended to be a fair fight.

That in mind; If the M10 can't be made to do it, tell me what engine can be dropped-in to make this dream possible.

Just suggest everything like money is no object.

Cause when it comes down to it, I'll eat PB&J instead of steak to get my results if I have to.

Sometimes you just gotta get your goals.

*** So the question: Should I bother with bumping-up the M-10, or should I drop in another engine? ***

Can the M10 be made fast? Via turbo or nitrous or uranium or whatever?

Some of you people out there have some scary E21's. Please tell me the truth. Can that engine, in that car, be made into a nuclear furnace?

Otherwise I'm left with trying to drop a Chevy 350 in my ailing 914. I only have the 914 cause my dad left it to me. Trust me, it sux. Stock, school busses leave it behind. :(

If there could be ANY car that I would put a nuclear power plant in, it's the E21. Just to turn heads.

Tell me if it works.

peace. :)

Ek

step a, give me the 914, there's one in my family, and I need to do what you're doing.
step b, m20 swap, turbo it, and go for the 900hp mark.

first off, let me just say that I like the way you think.

I'm guessing that her 350z is pretty fast if she can drive it. High 12's maybe? I don't know how heavy they are, but you definately have the advantage there. What you need to aim for is a better power to wieght ratio than her and then give yourself a healthy margine for error. Find out how much she wieghs, and figure on your e21 wieghing about 2400 lbs. Lets say she weighs 3200 lbs, so 3200 lbs/412 hp = 7.77 lbs/hp. So then 2400 lbs /7.77 lbs/hp = 309 hp.


So you might as well shoot for 400 hp to seal the deal. In an E21 I would say it will take well over 300 hp to hit high 12's. I'm pushing about 220 at the fly right now at 7 psi and ran a 14.3 in the 1/4. Good and Tight is pushing about 420 at the fly in his m10 powered e30 318i and has run a 12.6. I think he's boosting at around 26 psi to hit that kind of power.

If money is no object and your ultimate goal is white knuckle 3rd gear tire roastin' acceration, you can swap in any engine you want and get those results. I think that if your point is to destroy her with your 25 year old car then the motor should also be period correct so throw out the m50 or any M engine, it would cost much more to get the power you're wanting with newer tech. I would suggest a turbo m20 or even better, turbo m30 (m102 from the old 745i).

400 hp is easy with a turbo m30, but you'll also have to upgrade the rear diff as the e21 diff will taco at the first stomp of the throttle.

If you're not into the purist, period correct bmw thing, the best bang for your buck engine swap is the LS1 and 6 spd tranny. It will of course require a lot of fabrication but will make your e21 blazin fast.

ls1 +e21 =smokeinfast:buttrock

350Z's are fun:)...blown is even more awesome...they are very sick cars for the money

BMW wise, you'll need forced induction, weather it's an M10, or M20

My buddy owned a 04 stock 350z. We swapped cars and bs'd each other all the time on back roads with long 1/4 plus mile stretches. My 320 modded for autox with high comp 1.8L running a 288 cam and weber 38 could barely keep up even though I could drive better than him. Matter of fact following him hard was how I spun my #3 rod bearing the second time lol.
Now in the E30M3 with a few mods I was always on his tail until I pull a slick pass on him:D. The fun days.

My advise is if your going to do it with an M10 is start with a stroker. Use a 2L crank or 2.3L crank and rods from and S14 M3 motor. Build a turbo monster on one of those platforms and you'll reach your goal. It will take some serious dollars if your having someone build it for you.

M20 same principal, but you'll get there much easier for even more money.

BTW if her 350 doesn't have them, get the same size wheels and tread all around. That and good brake pads were the only thing we changed that transformed the car. Stock wheels on 04 models were staggered 17x7.5 front and 17x8 rear. We used a second set of stock wheels to have 17x8 all around with 245/45/17 MX kumho rubber. What a difference to sling through the corners.

Looking on the web seems that the 350z has a curb weight between 3200 and 3339lbs depending on were you look. Add the blower, intercooler, etc and she is probably pushing upwards of 3300 lbs dry. Personally I would gut your 320 down to bare essentials. Loose most the interior, dump the diving board bumpers etc. Start light. Guys in the E30 crowd are pushing 300 hp out of mildly turboed M20's pretty easily. M20's aren't too hard of a swap - I would choose one that running Motronic 1.3 (87 or newer). There are some guys I've seen on the boards running low 12's with turboed M20's. Your could run an eta bottom end (with a diesel crank), stock eta pistons and an 885 head. This will give you a pretty low compression ration (high 7's?) that you could really crank the boost up with.

Another question is can she drive? I've taken the Chevelle to the track and consistency isn't as easy as you would think. Especially putting power to the ground in higher HP cars (Chevelle is 423hp and not easy to get a smooth launch).

If you want to stick with the M10, yes they can be made to be monsters, thats what i am going for as i dont want to do a swap.

If some money was an issue, do a swap (M20, M30) and turbocharge that.

I would stick with the M10, turbo it and strip the car down. If you choose the M10 route shoot me a pm I have some turbo parts available.

good & tight has the plan, go with that...

ken

I agree, M10 can do the job AND still keep your weight balance nice for the turns. Stripping weight is also key. Last I checked I was down to 2200 lbs from 2650 lbs (about, that was one of the BMW figures somewhere). 450 lbs is nothing to laugh at, unless a door has gone missing. You haven't said yet whether you are going to keep a full interior or not. But even with interior, there are plenty of ways to ditch the weight. Pull all of the AC, put in lighter (and more supportive) seats, get at least 15in wheels that are light, minimum 7in wide, although 8in would be nicer. As mentioned, ditch the diving board bumpers. If you fear the cops on this one, get the Korman Fiberglass front valence/bumper piece. It is crafted from a mold made with a euro bumper installed on a car, so when painted correctly it LOOKS like you have a bumper. Rear I managed to find an e30 rear plastic bumper adapted to fit the e21. Basically you need to cut a small section out of the middle for it to be the right width, and then weld the e30 bumper mounts onto the e21 bumper shocks (modified to fit together). This saves a TON of weight and keeps you looking legal (and makes the car look a bit cleaner too). There are other tricks here and there, we may need to get that thread unburried or started again.

Engine. I say turbo the M10, but I'm biased. As jrcook pointed out above, you need to make between 300-400 hp to take her. You won't need AS much torque (less car weight to get rolling), and less torque will also give you more problems getting the power to the ground AND launching. So a high strun 4 banger is a very sensible option. The M10 block is very boost capable, with stock internals. I am currently running a 1.8L K Jet M10 with a Century Turbo kit. I'm seeing between 5.5-6 psi and think now the car is running about where it should be, AFR wise. I haven't dyno'd it yet, should be somewhere close to 150hp at the flywheel. My exhaust manifold and turbo are FAR from efficient. If I lived in almost any other state I would have gone with better versions of both, which are easy to get (Top End and some company in Europe that jbob has dealt with have better manifolds). Turbo tech has come a LOOONG way since my kit was designed, so it is easy on the same boost now to get closer to 200hp. Once you start upping the boost, things get fun. The head should be able to take it, although if you have the money to spend on Top End building a motor for you, it would only help the M10 to live longer AS you are running 20psi or more. As mentioned, look at what good&tight is doing. If you can get those numbers even in a 2400 lbs car (ie still some interior items), you'll kick her butt up and down the 1/4 mile and probably beyond.

She will have a couple of things on you. Traction, assuming she has a decent diff. If you don't have one, get a LSD for your car, period. there is no way around this, it helps tons for the initial launch, not to mention in the corners. She also will have better aerodynamics. This isn't AS crucial until you are getting higher in speeds. If the run goes for more than a 1/4mile then this is where her slick lines and higher power will creep up on you.

Just for reference I raced a Dinan E39 M5, he claimed he dynoed a little over 400whp. Raced him from a roll and a dig the outcome was the same, from a 3rd gear roll I was a car ahead before shifting to 4th. From a dig I actually let him get the jump but still steam rolled by him in 3rd, I was only running 19psi at the time.
If you can lighten up the car a good amount like mentioned you wont need a great deal of HP to beat the Z.

Just for reference I raced a Dinan E39 M5, he claimed he dynoed a little over 400whp. Raced him from a roll and a dig the outcome was the same, from a 3rd gear roll I was a car ahead before shifting to 4th. From a dig I actually let him get the jump but still steam rolled by him in 3rd, I was only running 19psi at the time.
If you can lighten up the car a good amount like mentioned you wont need a great deal of HP to beat the Z.

Awesome.

OT, what exactly is done to the motor? anything internal? turbo specs.

I love the M10, its just so strong and take a beating, that im planning on keeping it and making it a monster.

Awesome.

OT, what exactly is done to the motor? anything internal? turbo specs.

I love the M10, its just so strong and take a beating, that im planning on keeping it and making it a monster.

2.0 crank & rods w/91mm JE pistons, total seal rings
318i head, 294 regrind cam, SS valves, double springs, stock rockers.
ARP head studs, Cometic MLS head gasket
My custom turbo manifold with TO4B turbo.
Stock 318i intake w/M30 throttle body, 550cc low impedance injectors.

The block has some other tricks that i've done to it but the main thing is putting the engine together just right. I've built quite a few of these engines and know what works best.

2.0 crank & rods w/91mm JE pistons, total seal rings
318i head, 294 regrind cam, SS valves, double springs, stock rockers.
ARP head studs, Cometic MLS head gasket
My custom turbo manifold with TO4B turbo.
Stock 318i intake w/M30 throttle body, 550cc low impedance injectors.

The block has some other tricks that i've done to it but the main thing is putting the engine together just right. I've built quite a few of these engines and know what works best.

What management system r u running?

What management system r u running?
Megasquirt w/EDIS

Dont forget the brake upgrades to go with it! It's borderline irresponsible to up the power to these proportions and not do a lot of work on the stopping power!

John

Megasquirt w/EDIS

I'm looking at this same setup more and more each day. Where can you get a fuel injection harness to connect the ECU to the Ford EDIS and to the Injectors?
:buttrock

I would say go the turbo route with an m10.

M20s can be built as strokers turbos to make serious power, and there are some 2.9 turbo m20s putting down well over 300 hp.

Its your choice..hope you have deep pockets....

zbmwguy,
MegaSquirt is DIY, just look at the wiring diagrams and wire it up yourself. If you want plug and play with tech support go with SDS...

ken

Thank you for all the tips. I'm convinced now to keep the m10 and build it up. I like keeping the car light.

I'm going to throw out the rear seat, and ditch the A/C (which doesn't work anyway).

It was Good & Tight's video that I had watched. That was the first spark in my eye that this little car could be made to go fast.

I'm not rich, but I can spend money. I already bought some 15" Alpinas off eBay (over a week ago, when is this guy going to ship?!). 7" in the rear with 205 40's should be decent grip.

I've looked into a quaife LSD, and that's probably next at around $12xx bux. I'm looking for some bargain to jump into my lap, so the hunt isn't going quickly. Side note: Everything I read says the E21 is a dog to race in SCCA, yet they make a Quaife for it, and NOT for my 510? WTF? My 510 has a welded diff, and I'd REALLY rather have a quaife. But heck, I still can't even find a subaru LSD R160 diff in this darned town.

The bumpers are going in the trash. I hate them. I already talked on the phone to Korman, and they said $425 for the front spoiler... DAMN, that's an expensive piece of fiberglass!

I've already learned that those three magical letters - "BMW" - seem to make EVERY part I have to buy about twice as expensive. I paid $46 bux for a glove box handle. My god...

I understand that to people who drive M5's, Supras, 240's, STI's, Evo's and yada yada... it's a weird concept to want to beef up an ancient E21. I'll end up spending $7000 on a car that I would never be able to sell for more that 3k (unless it looked like Blitzed's gold masterpiece).

But that is something that I love. 20+ year old vehicles that suddenly jump-up and school the modern sleek street screamers. I believe that if these old but beautiful cars don't get proper respect, then you have to TAKE it like a baseball bat to the knees.

You know... I almost bought a '93 RX-7 when this E21 fell into my hands. I keep wondering what my life would have been like otherwise. I guess I would have ended-up on a different forum. :stickoutt

Thanks again for the tips. You have all helped me a great deal. :)

Gotta love your training wheels!

Good luck!

Some girl just talked some stuff in my ear...

So for what it's worth, I'll relate it:

"Hon, you never bought any car just so you could sell it."
"So you're OK with me dumping silly kinda bux into this?"
"I could say no, but we both already know that it wouldn't matter. You're going to spend your last cheeseburger to put some new do-hickey on the car. You always do that. I don't like it, but I accept that it's what you are going to do. Just don't waste your money. And if you are going to make it fast, then make it fast. And when it is, I get it for Thursday night to show off to the others. I also get sick of the "My guy has a Corvette" bunch. Gimme something that really shakes walls. And don't let me down. You think you are the only person on the planet that wants to drive fast? Trust me, I could use some smack-down action too."

"You play cards!"

"And we talk about your private parts and compare cars too. When it comes to the car, don't let me down."

"Wow... That just sounds so... wait...! My private junk is a let-down???"

"Not yet, hon, you're a beast and I could never think of another man."

"Cause, that really sounds like you're just feeding me what I want to hear. Are you futzing with me? I may be drunk, but I'm not stupid! Well, OK... I might be stupid too."

"If you make that silly little car able to beat Christine's 350z, I'll do you so you won't be able to walk straight. Just make me able to beat Sarah too."

"You play cards with Sarah. Wait... WHAT??? Her C6??? Are you insane? Why do you want to race that? I thought you liked her?"

"She took all my money at Bridge. She has to die. Or lose. Something. I'm sorry you had to see this side of me."

"Wow... Its just that it's a little car..."

"OK, mister "I have a race, and can't visit the kids cause I will lose points!" Now you pay back. Can you make the Camry fast?"

"I don't think even God could make the Camry fast, and he has some real pull with the vendors..."

"Then make something fast. That crappy Porsche, a 510, the 320, anything. I want a fast car or you will die old and alone."

"What? Shut up! You're being silly!"

"And your shitty cars. I want to get some clout, Mr Man. I married a man who can't beat some lawyer's wife's car? You suck!"

"Now you're just being mean. I can do it, but we might have to cut out the tanning beds..."

"Funny".

"Ok, but this means I get to spend. I mean REALLY. You let me dump some REAL money on the car. Like a shovel of money right onto the engine. Okay?"

"Will that make it beat Sarah's Corvette?"

"Um.......... Um............ Okay, there are LEVELS to performance... and..."

"You're ducking the subject."

"Well... Really... I'm looking to kill some civics. And maybe a 350z another Evo I know of. You don't know what your asking when you say "Kill the C6". It's like this WHOLE other animal..."

"So all your engine stuff really doesn't matter, does it? Can you do it or not?"

"I COULD try plutonium in the gas tank..."

"I know what Plutonium is, and that's just you trying to be funny. Can you beat her Corvette?"

"Um... No?"

"Ugh! I don't know why you EVER bother to spend all this money to make these silly cars faster, and you can't even beat Sarah!"

"She has a C6 for Christ's sake!"

"Whatever. Her car is fast, and all the money you dump into your car won't beat it. I think you should give up and sell that car, and get something faster."

"Faster? but... I LOVE the 320. Really. It's a neat little car. I love it. Please say I can keep it!"

"Will it beat her Corvette?"

"What the hell WILL? No. No it won't. But I didn't spend 86 grand either!"

"Phah!"

"Fuckin woman don't realize what love is..."

Gotta love your training wheels!

Good luck!

Nobody noticed that before.

Thank you.

And to let you know, it is the absolute final solution to the body roll in the corners.

No, it's not Photoshop. I really built it up as a mock-up from my boss's kid's old bike stuff. You can get your face 10 inches away, and it still really looks like it's bolted to the car. It's just wonderful. :D

Peas, love, and good doses.

Ek.

lol your wife is awesome:buttrock

OK, with enough money you CAN beat a C6 Vette. Straight line and corners. You're talking at least 400hp at the wheels (possible from the M10, but not cheap) and full coilovers with meatier sways, better brakes, less weight...etc etc. It can be done, for less then $86K, and people will be shocked and amazed (well, folks that realize what has been done).

...get ready for some great nights in bed man!

hahah, man, your wife is cool. If getting laid for rest of your life depends on beating a C6 vette, then you better make it happen. Is it a z06? I sure hope not...

This of course ups the bar considerably. Now you're talking low 12's high 11's in the 1320, right? You very well may just have one of the fastest e21's out there when you're done.

You COULD do it with the m10, but in my opinion an m30 is going to be your better optiong here, it will be much easier to hit those numbers and will be more reliable in the long run. It will take over 25 lbs of boost for an m10 to hit 400 hp. I would build a strong 3.5 to 3.8L m30 and boost that at about 15 to 20 psi. Shoot for 500 hp to give yourself a little margine for error.

OK, with enough money you CAN beat a C6 Vette. Straight line and corners. You're talking at least 400hp at the wheels (possible from the M10, but not cheap) and full coilovers with meatier sways, better brakes, less weight...etc etc. It can be done, for less then $86K, and people will be shocked and amazed (well, folks that realize what has been done).

...get ready for some great nights in bed man!

for serious? Cause I have an idea I was gonna spend on...

Cut out the front side grills, ditch the inner headlights, and put sequential intercoolers where the grills were. There's this place that will build intercoolers to your own measurements - I forget now, cause I'm about to fall over, and then.

THEN!

Re-rout the windshield water-spritzer system to turn into a water "misting" system just under the top front lip of the hood (bonnet, whatever). I expect ambient intake temps to be quite low. Call me crazy?

If I build it first, I invented it. If it's been done before (Like every good idea in the world has), I'll just be another guy using water mist to cool stuff.

Ambient air temp out here is 110 Fahrenheit. That's how hot it is outside. We use "Misting" sprayers over the awnings of taco stands to cool off the customers. If I do it on my intercoolers, I'll be cool as Elvis.

Or something else cool. Is Vanilla Ice still cool? Golly, he was my hero!

Ok, maybe not...

But the water mist thing is going to happen. I'll let you know how it works, if someone else doesn't do it first. ;)

Peas.

Ek.

hahah, man, your wife is cool. If getting laid for rest of your life depends on beating a C6 vette, then you better make it happen. Is it a z06? I sure hope not...

I THOUGHT it was the lawyer guy, but I have been corrected: It's the black Z06 of the telecommunications guy. My boss already raced him and lost. :(

He was in our shop one time with an ailing Laptop, I accidentally noticed a strange cylindrical bulge protruding in the back of his pants, and said, "Um, sir, you have a strange, something poking in the back of your pants... Do you need to use our facilities?"

"Oh! That! No, it's OK. I just happen to accidentally produce $1000 rolls of $100-dollar bills out my ass at random occasions. I'll take care of this in the restroom. No worries!" :D

*later*

"And there are no side-effects?"

"Nope! I just flush the outer $100 bill cause it's kind of soiled, and the rest is ok. Sometimes I run out of pockets though. That can be a problem..."

"I.... Yes... Sometimes too much money can be a real burden. Or so I have read... and dreamed..."

"Welp! Gotta go crap more money! Fix the laptop, K?"

"Of course.... Nice car, BTW..."

"Which one?"

"The one outside..."

"Oh yeah. It's really fast too. A nice bit of fun."

He's a really nice guy and all, but when my personal revolution finally happens, he will be first against the wall.

*sigh*.

"Tokyo Drift" is not the greatest movie, but when the guy said, "first time I beat some rich kid, I felt really great!" (or something like that). I said. "Gosh. This is the best movie ever made!"

:rofl: your wife is funny.

If you are wanting to make those kind of numbers, your best bet would be to do a motor swap. Yeah the M10 could be built up for that, but you'll just be throwing money away as it can be done cheaping with a motor swap.

I would say get an M20 or M30..hell, if you wanted get a M50 or S50 and supercharge/turbo those motors and you'll atain those numbers much easier.

The cheapest and easiest way to hit those numbers is to just do an LS1 and 6 speed swap. Don't even crack the motor open, just drop it in, do a cam, headers and dual 3" exhaust, intake and custom tune and you'll easily be making over 400 reliable hp with bogs of torque.

Of course, then you'd fighting fire with fire. there is a certain satisfaction that would come knowing you're fighting fire with a much smaller, older, obscure, one off squirt gun.

Areyou calling the M10 or the M30 a squirt gun? :stickoutt

I guess compared to the LS1, either of them would be.

OK, C6 vs Z06 are totally different. At that point I would have to agree, turbo M30 would be the way to go. Screw the newer motors, if you are going for shock and awe factor, it is SOOO much more humbling to get shut down by a single cam inline 6 than a twin cam. ...at least in my mind it is. :D

The better way to do THIS (M30 turbo motor) is to get a Motronic M30B35 out of the later 535i cars and get one of the kits for it. There are a few on the market. If you can't find one in your research, I'm sure I can track down the ones I've seen. These motors in the US are making over 500hp on pump gas. You just need to make the modifications to the front of the car to mount it (and make sure it still handles to your liking, so attached as far back as you can stand), and the mods to the driveline and the brakes to handle the extra power. The car will be a fair bit heavier, but this is only going to matter in the braking and handling departments.

Oh, and why do you think my car looks the way it does? It REALLLY pisses off guys here in the local BMW CCA chapter when my little beat up old ass POS car (they don't even like to call it a BMW) beats their $65K M3 (before mods) around the course. The worse it looks, the more pissed off they are.
:buttrock

Yahoo! Two of my Alpina wheels came in today!

But only two? I checked the FedEx tracking, and even though all four were picked up at the same time, two of them are still in Phoenix.

I guess they got randomly screened for "radial profiling". (ducks):stickoutt

So I Wiki'd about intercoolers, and found out that the idea of spraying water over them was invented about a thousand years ago, and people even spray Nitrous on the OUTSIDE of them for cooling. What's next, liquid nitrogen?:eek:

I found that Spearco site again that can make custom intercoolers, and decided to do some photoshop work to see how my idea would look.

So this is my artist's mis-conception in photoshop.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Mr_Ekshin/320i/Photoshop_FMIC1.jpg
And it looks like ass. :(

So I wondered what they would look like if I could paint the fronts black...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Mr_Ekshin/320i/Photoshop_FMIC2.jpg

I know that it loses some efficiency with black paint on the front, but I want it to at least look decent.

It would be fed from the turbo, into the left, a cross tube behind the center grill to the right, and then back to the intake.

Let me know if this idea has any merit. and feel free to tell me I'm an idiot if this idea is pointless.

Oh, and I looked into an LS-1 swap. I read it weighs like 435 lbs, if I recall correctly, I want my car to turn corners, as well as be quick. Also crate LS-1's are around $8000. That's over the sensible budget for speed, when I gotta sacrifice my cornering. I've planned $7000 to build, boost, and bolt-on lots of fun stuff, and think I can get more for my money that way. I've been convinced now to use the M10.

And I'm not seriously wanting to beat any Z06 beast. (just don't tell anyone I said that, cause I get to spend all my $ as long as that's "THE PLAN") ;)

I just want to kill a certain 350z that's big fish in our small pond, and then maybe get some honor back from some very unkind civics.

well its definately an interesting idea, but it is not ideal for performance. You can fit a much larger singler intercooler back there that will be hidden by the grill and will work much better. Plus you don't have to spend a ton of money, I bought my little 12x12 intercooler on ebay for $110.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c58/jrcook320/Turbo%20Project/Turbo275.jpg

I ran the charge pipes between the frame rails and it was a very tight fit, but I think you could fit a 12x18 back there if you ran your charge pipes further out through the fender wells (the factory even cut holes for you) and back into the engine bay.

I assume you are going for the sleeper look so you can pull up in your e21 without them suspecting anything, right? Let them think its still bone stock and blow their doors off.

well its definately an interesting idea, but it is not ideal for performance. You can fit a much larger singler intercooler back there that will be hidden by the grill and will work much better. Plus you don't have to spend a ton of money, I bought my little 12x12 intercooler on ebay for $110.

I ran the charge pipes between the frame rails and it was a very tight fit, but I think you could fit a 12x18 back there if you ran your charge pipes further out through the fender wells (the factory even cut holes for you) and back into the engine bay.

I assume you are going for the sleeper look so you can pull up in your e21 without them suspecting anything, right? Let them think its still bone stock and blow their doors off.

Holy cow! My mind is changed! You found that for $110? It's massive! Though I probably won't find the same deal you did, can you tell me the brand/make of that intercooler so I may start hunting?

My idea would also have had more lag I think. And fitting everything behind the stock grill and keeping the stock headlights is what I want.

Thanks much! Now tell me what intercooler that is please? :)

I assume you are going for the sleeper look so you can pull up in your e21 without them suspecting anything, right? Let them think its still bone stock and blow their doors off.



that is my plan

you might also want to look into water-methanol injection. the thread was bumped up here fairly recently...
Jake

I actually know alot about how water/methanol was used on WWII planes. I've also read a bit about how it is used on cars.

I won't go there, because I already want to spray water OVER the intercooler.

Because that will also cool the radiator. I've already gone low on water twice. It's so darned hot out here.

One extra water system better be enough. Two would be just crazy. That is for the next tuner in the list. I won't bother with twin water systems. :)

Oh, and I looked into an LS-1 swap. I read it weighs like 435 lbs, if I recall correctly, I want my car to turn corners, as well as be quick. Also crate LS-1's are around $8000. That's over the sensible budget for speed, when I gotta sacrifice my cornering. I've planned $7000 to build, boost, and bolt-on lots of fun stuff, and think I can get more for my money that way. I've been convinced now to use the M10.

And I'm not seriously wanting to beat any Z06 beast. (just don't tell anyone I said that, cause I get to spend all my $ as long as that's "THE PLAN") ;)

I just want to kill a certain 350z that's big fish in our small pond, and then maybe get some honor back from some very unkind civics.

Just a heads up about the LS-1

1: the LS-1 (aluminum block chevy v8, 350cid) are slightly (50~ lbs IIRC) heavier than the S14 in the E30 BMW M3. When you consider that an LS-1 has twice the power and torque output as the S14, not to mention the strong aftermarket parts community backing the chevy 350 for the last eighty billion years.... you have a potential powerhouse.

an M30 swap with a turbo would do the same. You could probably pull the entire motor/trans/rearend etc from a 5/7 series out of a junk yard for under a thousand and spend the rest of your budget on internals and FI. I'm pretty sure with a few thousand at your disposal you can work a 400-500hp m30 via turbo.

If you swap to the M/S50 you're going to be looking at spending almost the entire amount on the motor alone which will still leave alot to be desired speed wise (and wont smoke a vette...)

The other choice would be to stroke, chip and turbo the m10 and run alot of boost.


Another note concerning weight:

Carbon fiber/fiberglass body panels (hood/trunk.) ? Do they make them for e21? In my e30 there is an absolute CHRIST-LOAD of foam/fiber matte/trunk tar/sound deadening/etc, another thing to look into. Only downside is your car will be noisy as.. well, just noisy.. It's cool to have a stock looking car mash on everything and everyone ... =/

If you're looking for cheap power that has huge potential, the LS-1 is the best way to go. PERIOD. Why are you looking at crate motors? Buy a used motor and trans for $2000. With nothing more than a cam, headers and exhaust you'll be making over 400 hp on an otherwise stock motor. It will be absolutely bulletproof. Parts are cheap and more plentiful than buttholes in prison.

If you install the motor properly it will handle just fine. They don't wiegh much more than an S14 which is basically just a DOHC m10, and it will set further back in the engine bay than any straight six since its shorter. Redmist (pete) over on tricord has his entire LS-1 mounted behind the strut towers with some heavy firewall massaging.

Lets face it though, any e21 with 400 hp is going to be a handfull going around corners, no matter what the wieght distribution.

Search ebaymotors for intercoolers, plenty of various sizes and configurations new for about $100 or so.

ken

Holy cow! My mind is changed! You found that for $110? It's massive! Though I probably won't find the same deal you did, can you tell me the brand/make of that intercooler so I may start hunting?

My idea would also have had more lag I think. And fitting everything behind the stock grill and keeping the stock headlights is what I want.

Thanks much! Now tell me what intercooler that is please? :)
sorry, I don't remember the seller on ebay anymore. Others like it should turn up for cheap. Mine is an 11x12 x 3" with 2.5" inlet/outlet.