I live up in the Northeast, so I have to take into account what's going to happen during the winter if I end up getting my E34. So for those of you with experience, how are they? I know that BMW's don't have the best snow rep. to begin with, but if you slap on a set of good snow tires, can you make it through some big storms?

personally? I don't know. But I do know that many here make it work...

Example #1

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u120/e34ntoys/DSC00914.jpg

EDIT: thanks kessler for the great picture!

If you cant drive your car in the snow with a decent set of snow tires the issue isnt the car. I used to drive my 400hp 944 in the snow. I know a guy who tows his snowmobile with his Z06.

Hmm well I live in Canada so if I cant get around i dunno who could. I run blizzacks and have never had an issue

I never had a problem back in PA. Now that I am in DC I take public transportation or walk when the roads are nasty. The city really makes life easy.

Since 2003, after selling my 4x4 Ford F150 truck, I mount dedicated snows (Michelin Arctic Alpins) and have not had any difficulty...in fact...I HIGHLY recommend dedicated snow tires. I've driven in everything a Great Lakes winter can throw at you and my 95 Touring (w/ASC+T, too) handled every situation better than I ever could imagine.

I doubt I could plow through a field in the Touring like with the truck...but on ice/snow/sleet covered streets, parking lots, and driveways...plowed and unplowed...salted or fresh powder...snow packed, drifted, or piled high...she hasn't let me down yet (thanks to the tires and the traction control).

Winter driving is not so much about "if" the car can "handle" the weather (as long as it is in good mechanical condition)...but about having the proper tires mounted on the car for the type of conditions it will face. As I've stated before...you don't wear flip flops to lay miles of asphalt, nor do you run the 50 yard dash in 5" platform shoes...you don't where Hush Puppies to go fly fishing in the river, nor do you go rock climbing in fuzZy soft bottomed house slippers. In none of the previous situations presented would you consider something wrong with your feet & legs if you DID wear the type of shoes indentified in each situation...but you would obviously recognize that the failure was in the foot wear NOT being appropriate for the condition you were using them. :D ;) :D

Don't be duped by "all-season" tires being the compromise when you have to drive in severe winter weather. Their compromise... is that "all seasons" usually fail to excel at the extreme ends because it has to compromise by trying to handle everything. I have Kumho ASX all seasons that I use for only 3 seasons...in my situation...they can handle those 3 seasons well pushing around a car with a 6-banger engine...and do all right up to about 1" if I get caught in an early or late snowfall. But true winter conditions...they must go and that's when the Arctic Alpins take over. :buttrock

consider checking out sites like www.tirerack.com and www.discounttire.com and read the reviews or take TireRack's tire decision guide to give you a list of tires that fit your specific location, driving conditions, driving style, and cost etc.

I had Blizzaks on for the bilzzards we got this last winter here in Denver. I never got stuck!!!!!! I was soo happy. I was passing stuck SUV's left and right. I have a some good pics that I took while driving. I will post them when I get home.

Just out of curiosity...would I make a difference if you had the 540 versus the 525? Would the 525 be easier because it has less power?

Yes, the lack of torque does make it easier to drive in a "normal" fashion. But both have equal potential for fun. Generally, I dont know how ASC responds, but BMW's DSC is the worst traction control I've ever had the displeasure of driving with.

Just out of curiosity...would I make a difference if you had the 540 versus the 525? Would the 525 be easier because it has less power?

In the case of the 540 vs the 525...the better performance will probably fall on the side of the 540. But NOT because the engine has more or less power...but the technology involved with the tranmission and ATC (adaptive transmission control) in the e34 V8 models (530i/iT/540i).

Where as, a 525i/535i equipped with ASC/ASC+T would also have an advantage over the same models that aren't so equipped...the 530i/540i also have ATC (came standard starting in 1994 model year) which will also detect severe winter weather conditions like low traction conditions and automatically choose winter mode which (in milliseconds) will put the car into 2nd gear starts and quicker upshifts to lessen wheel slippage in low traction conditions to prevent fishtailing (basically lessening torque). Now, the 525i/535i can do this too...but it has to be manually done by the driver.

So, the same snow tires driving in the same conditions but one on a 525i/535i...and the others on a 530i/540i...the V8s may even perform better...and that's only from the more advanced technology built into the cars. But either would handle and perform much better with dedicated snow tires mounted.

Yes, the lack of torque does make it easier to drive in a "normal" fashion. But both have equal potential for fun. Generally, I dont know how ASC responds, but BMW's DSC is the worst traction control I've ever had the displeasure of driving with.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one...ASC/ASC+T/DSC in my opinion is great technology and has saved lots of good drivers and "not so good" drivers from wiping out their cars and/or their lives and passenger's lives, too.

Not that "nanny" technology is the end all to be all...there are times that it should be shut off...and deep snow is one of those time (which it also states in the owners manual). Another situation that can get you going in no direction fast is on a slippery incline.

ASC/ASC+T/DSC all incoporate engine throttle reduction. In those times that motoring can become unstable and falls within the paramenters for engine throttle to be reduced...it will do so to help regain traction. for instance, if you are on a steep incline and the wheels begin to spin, engine throttle will be reduced in an attempt for the slipping wheel to regain traction. But the incline needs more power to overcome gravity so as you try to propel the car forward by giving it more gas, and the wheels continue to spin...the engine throttle will also continue to be reduced...thus going no where...stuck on the incline.

Thus the reason for the traction control OFF button! :D Some situations don't become better because of the technology but most understeer/oversteer/lost traction situations do.

Just my .02 :stickoutt

I find that the E34 is quite well balanced and therefore easy to drive in poor weather conditions. I've not driven in deep snow with it, but I have dealt with several relatively severe ice storms and haven't had any problems. Both of my E34's have been 535's and I've found that with a light foot on the throttle combined with good tires and common sense will get you through.

....
Just my .02 :stickoutt
While I can agree with a TON of what you're saying. The BMW DSC has a tendency to force the car into an extreme understeer situation 99/100 times. The reduction in throttle, the rear braking and the timing changes make their DSC cars a complete PITA to drive, ESPECIALLY in deep snow. The only traction control I need is my right foot. And while I agree, it's great for some people, I've spent enough time sliding cars around that I'd prefer to know I can get in the throttle and point the car where I need to with my foot rather than needing it in a situation only to have the car tell me "no"

While I can agree with a TON of what you're saying. The BMW DSC has a tendency to force the car into an extreme understeer situation 99/100 times. The reduction in throttle, the rear braking and the timing changes make their DSC cars a complete PITA to drive, ESPECIALLY in deep snow. The only traction control I need is my right foot. And while I agree, it's great for some people, I've spent enough time sliding cars around that I'd prefer to know I can get in the throttle and point the car where I need to with my foot rather than needing it in a situation only to have the car tell me "no"

The E34 in the USA doesn't have DSC...only ASC (1991-1992)...then ASC+T (1993-1995)...DSC which involves both front and rear axles didn't make it to the 5 series until the e39. Just an FYI for those following along but are not quite sure what all is involved in ASC+T/DSC...here's a link that describes it in more detail: http://www.bmw.com.au/script/technology/technology.asp?id=26

Again, ASC/ASC+T is supposed to be turned off in deep snow. :)

I think we are really on the same page with just some slight differences...but for most people who probably don't have your driving skills...they are probably better served by traction control.

The biggest thing that sticks out in my mind is when ASC+T makes me grateful because... when making turns out onto a street that is slicker than what you expect...the engine throttle reduction reacted much quicker than I ever could. The little light on the dash started flashing and the engine throttle was reduced prior to my ever "feeling" the rear end almost break loose...the ASC+T reacted fast enough to keep the engine from revving which would have brought the rear end around...and instead of making a 90 degree turn out into the intersection...I probably would have done a 180 or 360 degree donut! :lol

In the winter...I want that....perhaps if it was dry or I was on a track...I wouldn't. But again, traction control can be shut off. :) And we should also remember that this thread was about snow tires and winter driving...performance driving by an experienced driver is a whole different ball park. :D

EDIT: :lol just noticed that I'm conversing with a Buffalo/Rochester NY resident about WINTER DRIVING!!! I must be NUTZ! We can get some bad stuff here...but I know when I've been out ranked!!! :lol

.....but BMW's DSC is the worst traction control I've ever had the displeasure of driving with.

That's because it's NOT traction control.

;)

........make their DSC cars a complete PITA to drive, ESPECIALLY in deep snow.......

This is why the manual tells you not to use it and they provide a button to turn it off on those situations.

Also, the system is designed to cause severe understeer. you are a lot safer hitting something head on then using the side of your car to go through that pole. It's serving a purpose.

As far as E34's in the snow...... why don't you buy an AWD E34?

That's because it's NOT traction control.

As far as E34's in the snow...... why don't you buy an AWD E34?

Do they make such a thing?

Why would I want AWD? I hate AWD. It make people into extremely poor drivers and isnt fun. I stated for a fact that I had no experience with ASC, only DSC.

EDIT: :lol just noticed that I'm conversing with a Buffalo/Rochester NY resident about WINTER DRIVING!!! I must be NUTZ! We can get some bad stuff here...but I know when I've been out ranked!!! :lol
I wondered how long till someone made a comment on that :rofl

Do they make such a thing?

not in the USA...in Europe, BMW offered a 525ix and 525ixT

Do they make such a thing?

The only one is the 525ix. Google it.

Driving a 540 that doesn't have TC can't be entertaining or hair raising; depending on your perspective.

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool02/48/91/09/B0/E1/7C/11/DA/A0/B5/5E/B6/48/8D/A9/AF/oma/10/2951E7708F2F11DB988A54A74A623DEE.jpg

Heres mine in the winter:
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3884/aimg0358bn5.jpg

As you see, snow isnt a problem :)

Why would I want AWD? I hate AWD. It make people into extremely poor drivers and isnt fun.

You must not of had a good experience or something...how does AWD make people into poor drivers? A 911 Turbo doesn't make anybody a poor driver, Audis don't win tons of races because of shitty driving, and I'm sure there are pleanty of people out there who would love to drive a WRC car simply for the fun factor.

I can understand how you can look at cars like the ford fusion and think that AWD is just to keep bad drivers from crashing, but those cars are a joke and a disgrace to the better AWD cars. Even you said you like the ability to point your car in the direction you want by a touch of the throttle when sliding, what do you think sliding in performance-oriented AWD car is like?

I've had both AWD and FR cars in the snow, and I even had my E34 up the the fog lights in snow a couple times. Through my experience I've come to dislike any form of traction control and I disable my ABS in the snow as well. The only way to have complete control over your car is to control it yourself.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p26673f36acf8f19a29267b897bf1b6ea/e92e1c78.jpg

You must not of had a good experience or something...how does AWD make people into poor drivers?

The only way to have complete control over your car is to control it yourself.
Your last line is DEAD on. However, I'll address the first bit about AWD to be a bit more specific. I am in NO WAY refering to rally, AWD is king in that arena. My comment is more directed towards track oriented driving. The amount of people who had potential to become decent drivers but have become frankensteer/pig fisted/chop steering idiots with 0 or 100% throttle input because of Evo's and WRX's disgusts me. Modern AWD on pavement can make ANYONE look like a hero it's really destroyed the skills of some drivers, and made others think they have some.

My second winter, first without my 4wd Pathfinder.

On 50% Michelin Energy MXM4s:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/Georgia4Runner/Bimmer/IMG_1462.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/Georgia4Runner/Bimmer/IMG_1457.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/Georgia4Runner/Bimmer/IMG_1454.jpg

See the hill in the background? I made it up that, full throttle going 2 mph. Took about 10 minutes. OMG, scary stuff.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/Georgia4Runner/Bimmer/IMG_1429.jpg

No ASC+T here either, and I have an open diff.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/Georgia4Runner/Bimmer/IMG_1428_edited.jpg

personally? I don't know. But I do know that many here make it work...

Example #1

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u120/e34ntoys/DSC00914.jpg

EDIT: thanks kessler for the great picture!

You bet...


These cars do AWESOME with some snow tires and ok with some All seasons mounted on 15" wheels. The 18's don't do so well, but its cool to limp out on them to take pictures. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/kesslerbmw/new/IMG_8473Large.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/kesslerbmw/new/IMG_8488Large.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/kesslerbmw/My%20cars/DSC00886.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/kesslerbmw/My%20cars/DSC00920.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/kesslerbmw/My%20cars/DSC00928.jpg

I put some studded snows (Cooper WeatherMasters) on mine. They worked superbly in the few storms that we had up here.

Here's a quick pic of the car before I put the snows on, the 17's were really fun in the snow,haha.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c76/CobraClutch2012/DSC01345.jpg

Your last line is DEAD on. However, I'll address the first bit about AWD to be a bit more specific. I am in NO WAY refering to rally, AWD is king in that arena. My comment is more directed towards track oriented driving. The amount of people who had potential to become decent drivers but have become frankensteer/pig fisted/chop steering idiots with 0 or 100% throttle input because of Evo's and WRX's disgusts me. Modern AWD on pavement can make ANYONE look like a hero it's really destroyed the skills of some drivers, and made others think they have some.

What does that have to do with what w are talking about? We are discussing AWD cars and driving them in the snow. Not taking an AWD E34 to the track. the AWD in an E34 is not designed for track performance. It's not performance oriented AT ALL. It's there for safety. It's there to help in low traction situations. LIKE SNOW.

get your head out fo your ass. You sound like some young punk who seems to think that since he did a doughnut at some point in time he is an all knowing race car driver.

It is obvious that you know nothing of what this thread is actually about.

Rob yeah, ok you've got me pegged :rofl

If you'll notice, the discussion had already gone off topic about AWD before that post you quoted.

It's Not About Having You Pegged. It;s About Calling Out How You Are Acting. Two Different Things.

Let's Just Agree To Disagree.

In winter I ran on Pirelli A210's when I lived in Toronto. I drove from Toronto to Calgary, Alberta and back on them one winter and the car was great. I would think that in snow a narrower tire would be better because it focuses the weight into a smaller area. I think it always comes down to driving style and sensibility.

I also had the block heater installed. It more that paid off when I was in Alberta.

To bring up the matter of studded tires....Those probably do amazing in the snow. how are they in terms of road noise and such, and what are the limits with the months of the year you can use them?

^^^ awsome pics kessler! I would love to get some shots like that but honestly i have this DEEP fear of salt they put on the roads. I refuse to drive any nice car on a salted road due to what happend to my shelby dodge in my sig. The floor boards rotted out and now have to replace them. I have driven my 540/6 in the snow when i first purchased it (2 times), winter 05-06 and had blizzak ws-50's on my stock 15's and it performed awsome. I prefer not to use ASC in snowy conditions, i feel that any type of traction control is a PITA but thats my opinion. With proper throttle control you can pretty much drive anything in the snow with a good set of tires imo. My 5.0 stang with bald ass rear tires was a diff story though lol :help
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/Shelbyzt2/Picture249.jpg

To bring up the matter of studded tires....Those probably do amazing in the snow. how are they in terms of road noise and such, and what are the limits with the months of the year you can use them?

In terms of road noise they are pretty loud, but they weren't too bad. Its something you definitely get use to though. In MA you're allowed to have them on Nov. 1st - April 30th. I believe CT is Nov.15 - Apr. 30.