i looked at sears, and there are 4+ different models from craftsman. i am confused.

i am totally ignorant of this item. where is the best place to buy it and which one would be recommended ?

best
--hikmet

What range do you want?

Most common is the 10 to150ft-lb. Good for most tasks including tightening lug bolts.

Craftsman is reasonably priced and of good build quality.

The best is Snap-on with Armstrong, Mac, maybe Proto,

then there are the ones that sell for $15 or $20 that feel like they're lubricated with sand.

Micrometre style is best with click-stop. Stay away from the beam
type. Very difficult to read at angles which result in parallax.

I have the Craftsman 10-150, and as Balthazarr stated, it's great for most tasks.

I once heard that you want to torque something down in the middle of a wrench's range. As you get to the two extremes of the scale, the wrench is less accurate. And when you use the upper extreme too much, it can damage the wrench and make the wrench less accurate over its entire range.

So get whatever wrench (or wrenches) that well cover the torques for which you'll be using it. I like Craftsman because I can just go to Sears and buy it (or exchange for a new one, because of the lifetime guarantee on most of their tools)

balthazarr, I don't know what range I want. I want to be able to use it for most of the DIY things on my car.

btw, what's 'Snap-On' ? is that a brand or type of wrench ? how can I find out if the item is a micrometer or beam style ?

C///M; I read on one of craftman's that it has 90 day warranty for exchange against faults, after that a generic 1 year warranty whatever that means. How do you know they are lifetime guaranteed ?

best
--h.

The 10-150 should do just fine for most things. I think I only required more when I did my coilover install.

Snap-On is a brand. If the torque wrench has a thing that looks like a ruler stuck to it, and a needle that moves, it's a beam type. If you have to set a torque before using it (usually by twisting a knob at the butt-end), then it's the other kind.

Not all Craftsman tools have a lifetime warranty. Some things (I've forgotten which ones) are considered disposable.

Here's a quote directly from the Craftsman website (note the asterisk in the first line; that's for certain tools that don't carry the warranty):


Hand tools so tough, they're guaranteed forever.*
Did you know that the first Craftsman hand tool we sold back in 1927 is still under warranty today? So are all the hand tools we've sold since. That's what is known as having confidence in our quality. As the Craftsman Unlimited Hand Tool Warranty clearly states... If any Craftsman guaranteed forever hand tool fails to provide complete satisfaction, return it for free repair or replacement. Period.

Here are some things that you need to decide:

- The torque range needed. Note that there are ft-lb and in-lb (and 1 ft-lb = 12 in-lb). Usually 10-100 ft. lb. is a good range for most things. In my opinion, the greater the range of the tool, the less accurate the tool will be.
- Type of torque wrench. Beam type (not very accurate) or micrometer click-stop type. Click-stop is much more accurate. I would not recommend a beam-type for engine work.
- Drive size. 1/4", 3/8", or 1/2". I think that 3/8" is the most universally used. You can also get a 3/8" -> 1/2" adapter, if you need to use 1/2" drives later.
- Brand. Snap-on might be the best, but they are also VERY expensive. When I bought a tool chest, I went to check out the Snap-On products and was blown away by how expensive they were (in the thousands of dollars!).
- Most good auto supply shops (CarQuest) and home supply stores (Home Depot, Lowes, etc.) carry them.

I got a Husky 3/8" 10-100 ft.-lb. click-type torque wrench at Home Depot for about $55 and have used it many times (http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=NAVIGATION&CNTKEY=market%2fpg_zip_code.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@1144853700.1045424606@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdjadchigllgekcgelceffdfgidgmn.0&search_text=torque%20wrench&DRC=4)

I would suggest that you wait until you need it for a specific project before you go and spend the money. If you bought one now, and then need a different one later, you might be a little upset.

Go buy a craftsman...if it ever breaks...bring it to sears and they'll give you a new one no questions asked.

i personally like the husky one that can be found at home depot. i had the 3/8 craftsman and it pissed me off because of it's small range. the husky's less expensive than the crastman as well and it comes with a nice little case.

Craftsman t-wrenches are not guaranteed for life.

There is a disclaimer on the Craftsman site and specifically names t-wrenches as having a 1 yr guarantee.
If you can wait, try ebay.
I puchased a Snap-on TQFR 250C for $92.00 including S/H with a range of 40-250 Ft-lbs.
A Mac for $72 10-80ft-lbs and an Armstrong for $46 50-250 in-lbs.
All in excellent condition and the Armstrong was never used.
Matco and Armstrong are owned by Danaher Corp.

The first two aren't as expensive or well known, but sell for well over $125 each.
The Snap-on took about 6 weeks to win, but well worth the time
Best known brand and coveted.
As with anything on Ebay, do your homework. Ask questions.
Got to manufacturers' sites.

:)

Originally posted by Balthazarr
Craftsman t-wrenches are not guaranteed for life.

There is a disclaimer on the Craftsman site and specifically names t-wrenches as having a 1 yr guarantee.


Well, damn. So there we've found one of the exceptions to their lifetime guarantee policy. Sorry about that; I figured that the wrench itself would have come with the same disclaimer attached to it somehow.

Yeah, i was disappointed they limited the coverage to wone year.

I bought and used their in-lb wrench and it's of a decent quality.

Then i returned it because I thought the colored numbers would fade.
Solid wrench in any case. :cool:

thank you guys for the info. I will buy it when I need it. Probably when I order a x-brace, it would be the time I need it.

best
--hikmet

A lot of guys have picked up their t-wrenches at Home Depot just because of the warrantee. I know some Sears stores will exchange the torque wrench no questions asked, but I wouldn't rely on it. With precision moving parts I guess it costs more to make than a screwdriver.

My wife bought me an S&K wrench for xmas. I haven't used it yet...but I'm hoping to tomorrow :)

My Sears torque wrench came apart. Sears (rightly so, it is in the disclaimer) would not give me a new one. I now have a 200+ ft/lb clicker that I use for wheels. Just about everything else falls into the range that is covered by my beam type wrench.

http://www.sears.com/data/product_images/tools/large/00944978000-dlv.jpg

This type of wrench will never go out of calibration as long as it is not abused. It is not quite as convenient as a click type, but it is less expensive, and usually more accurate. If you do buy a click type, don't go cheap. This is one area that skimping is not so good.

Have fun!
Bernman

Originally posted by GPappas

- The torque range needed. Note that there are ft-lb and in-lb (and 1 ft-lb = 12 in-lb). Usually 10-100 ft. lb. is a good range for most things. In my opinion, the greater the range of the tool, the less accurate the tool will be.


I just thought of something. A 10-100 lb-ft torque wrench is not a wide enough range. The BMW-specified torque for our lug bolts is 100lb-ft, and you don't want to use a torque wrench at either extreme of its range...

Originally posted by C///M
I just thought of something. A 10-100 lb-ft torque wrench is not a wide enough range. The BMW-specified torque for our lug bolts is 100lb-ft, and you don't want to use a torque wrench at either extreme of its range...

i torque lugs to 74 lb-ft...that's the value listed in bentley, anyhow.

only time i've ever needed a larger wrench than 150 lb-ft is for doing spindle nuts and axle nuts. the torque spec on those is something like 220 lb-ft for the M3. i was able to borrow a huge wrench for that work, but still had to buy the large sockets...

Apparently BMW changed the torque spec to 100ft-lbs. I still tighten mine to just over 75. Seems to be ok...

I tighten lug bolts to 82 ft-lbs.
Why...? Just cause it felt good.

This was before the new spec. I think 100 ft-lbs is a little too tight.
:az:

hmmm, the M3 E36 FAQ states that proper lug nut torque is 100 Nm, which translates to 73.8 ft-lb. Where do you get the 100 ft lbs?

New spec that was discussed months ago on this board.

Search for Lugs torque or equivalent.

new spec does not seem to apply to all bimmers. i will continue to torque my lugs to 74 lb-ft.

I was one of those who picked up a 10-100 Husky torque wrench. Good price, range, and comes with a case. Also, here are BMW's torque specifications:

All, except E53 (X5), E65 (745Li), E66 (745i) including R50/R53 (Mini Cooper) is: 120Nm +/- 10 (89 ft lbs)

E53 / E65 / E66 is: 140 Nm +/- 10 (103.7 ft lbs)

Cheers

Negative! Beam type are less accurate. You may be confusing that type with the DIAL indicator type. The dial type wrenches are usually the most accurate. Typicaly 2-4% of full scale. Clickers are also available in the 2% range but typicly 4%. I dont think I have seen a beam type rated better than 6%.

For those who like to torque their lugs higher than spec, remember this. If you exceed a bolts elastic tension range, you will eventually have bolt failure. This could even happen while driving down the road. You may want to look into what the max torque spec for those bolts is. Also the thread strength of the hubs must be taken into consideration. Specs are made for a reason. Not just because someone pulled a number out of thin air.


Originally posted by Bernman
http://www.sears.com/data/product_images/tools/large/00944978000-dlv.jpg

This type of wrench will never go out of calibration as long as it is not abused. It is not quite as convenient as a click type, but it is less expensive, and usually more accurate. If you do buy a click type, don't go cheap. This is one area that skimping is not so good.

Have fun!
Bernman

One thing that hasn't been said is that technique is important when using a torque wrench. With a click-type torque wrench, you need to pull slowly, smoothly, and steadily to get anywhere near an accurate reading. Some of us got together to play with a calibrated, electronic torque meter, to see how accurate our torque wrenches really were. We found that the jerk-it-till-it-pops method of using a clicker wrench caused huge amounts of overshoot - the arm couldn't stop in time when the wrench clicked. We were recording something like 10-30 lb higher readings than the setting on the wrench (80 ft/lbs). When we used a slow, smooth pull, we would be right within the rated tolerance of the wrench.

Out of the wrenches, the Craftsman and Husky wrenches did OK, typically within about 5% of the reading. The Snap-On, Mac, and Proto wrenches that we tried were a little closer, maybe 1-3% off across the scale. I have two identical S-K 1/2" wrenches, one that I've taken care of (it's in my toolbox), and the other that I throw in my tire trailer, and use solely for tire changes. The one that I treated well was almost dead on - only a pound or two off across the scale. The one that I didn't take care of was about 10 pounds off across the scale.

Just for grins, we tried a few of the el-cheapo made in China Harbor Freight $9.95 specials. One was over 100% off. We set it to 80 lbs, and it didn't click until we were close to 200 lbs. Another was accurate at 50 lbs, but gradually drifted away, until it was off by 30 lbs at the 150lb setting. Third one was about 10 lbs off at 50, 3 lbs off at 80, and about 15 lbs off at 150. Repeatability was also way off - pulls at a given setting would vary about 5 pounds. Other wrenches typically would vary about 1/2 lb or so.

Bottom line is that technique is important, and so is buying a decent wrench and taking care of it. And just think of this when the tire monkey at the tire store grabs the abused torque wrench and jerks on it to tighten up your lug bolts...

Jim

Do they sell SK torque wrenches at Home Depot? and about how much do they run for. Almost got a cheapo harbor freight one today, glad i didnt.

Home Depot carries Husky torque wrenches. I haven't seen any other brand of torque wrench at the local Home Depot.

damn, So anyone know of any chain stores that carry SK torque wrenches. Dont like mail ordering things because I like to see the product before i buy uless i kno what i want already.

All this hand-wringing about accuracy is misplaced. Friction of the bolt to the threaded hole can vary by 100% or more, depending on thread condition, lubrication, debris, etc. Thus even if you get the bolt torque perfect, you could be off 100% on the actual bolt tension, which is the key variable in a clamped joint. If torque on most items was terribly critical, you would never get a good connection. I use both a craftsman beam type and a "cheapo", 1/2" click-release type. The beam type is accurate and robust, but a PIA in some positions and locations. I use one or other depending on access.

The one exception to this is probably head bolts. You should do everything possible to perform this bolt-loading correctly, including lubricating the bolt head, chasing/cleaning the threads w/ a tap, and thread lubrication to achieve accurate bolt load. Torque-to-yield bolts are a means of avoiding the inaccuracy of bolt torque loading. Bolt is torqued to a point, where a further 1/4 turn will insure axial yielding of the bolt, and a relatively assured bolt tension. However, bolt is not re-usable.

You can calibrate your own torque wrench (beam or click-release types) w/ a known weight by clamping the drive in a vise and hanging the weight from the horizontal handle. (Weight x offset) from drive center equals actual torque. Check for your indicated torque. Accuracy is (Indicated - Actual)/Actual. This will allow you to observe how accurate the release point is. I would be surprised if most click-release were better than +/- 10%.

I think torque values are most useful to those who don't have a "feel" for how to achieve a torque 60 in-lbs. Joints like the valve cover to head, require a low torque, and if you overtorque and crush the gasket, you will get a leak soon.

Look at your 3/8" ratchet. Your actual leverage is probably about 6", so 60 in-lbs only requires 10 lbs pull on the ratchet. I try to imaging 10 lbs pull when tightening, if I'm not using a torque wrench.

I think Beemer guys are a little anal retentive, myself included.

Regards

Spoken like a true engineer. TexasBMW's post is 100% accurate. Reams have been written on getting proper bolt preload, and his post sums these reams up nicely :)

Thanks for the summary!
Butch

Originally posted by Estoril4dr
damn, So anyone know of any chain stores that carry SK torque wrenches. Dont like mail ordering things because I like to see the product before i buy uless i kno what i want already.

I've purchased SK torque wrenches on-line from "The Tool Warehouse" and I am quite happy with them.

3/8" Drive 25-250 in/lbs Wrench (http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/SK-74026.html)
3/8 " Drive 10-100 ft/lbs wrench (http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/SK-74104.html)
1/2" Drive 20-150 ft/lbs wrench (http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/SK-74151.html)

They also carry some nice Facom wratchets and a cool 10" spark plug socket (http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/SKF-BJ16A2.html).

To add to what TexasBMW said:

I was watching Speedvision last week, and they were balancing a 5.0 Mustang engine. The connecting rod bolts had little dimples in them. Because of the unknowns mentioned above when using a torque wrench, you are supposed to put a dial indicator in the dimples, then tighten the bolt until it stretches a certain amount. If you over tighten the bolt, you are supposed to back the bolt out and make sure it springs back to the original length. If it doesn't, you throw it out and use another bolt.

Now, THATS the way you torque a bolt!

one of the best ones are HAZET, not cheap, about $150.- for prof.
ones a year you should calibrate it.
But for real very difficult torque, like RSM by GC, you turn in the bolt from hand and then turn it for the spezific like 3/4 turn, this is the exact stuff.

I'm with a lot of you on the list. I have had both the Sears Craftsman Tq wrench and the Husky from Home Depo. I like th Husky better and for the avg. shade-tree that is mre than sufficient. If I were a pro and needed this thing every day, then I'd spend the $$ to et a SnapOn or other high $$ unit.
I've done lots of work on car, truck and rebuilt my bike with it. Works great (and the Husky has a lifetime warranty).
Oh and by-the-way, my Craftsman let loose on me so I pitched it...