View Full Version : Bleeding brakes: bubbles don't stop


GroovinPickle
05-19-2007, 04:25 PM
I read the instructions (http://www.motiveproducts.com/10instruct.html) for the Motive bleeder and followed them, although I first removed as much of the old fluid as possible with a turkey baster, then topped off with new fluid. Then I filled the bleeder with the remainder of fluid (almost 2 quarts) and hooked it up.

I started at the right rear and bled about 10 oz of fluid, at which point I could see the new stuff coming through. During this time the bubbles had been constant at several per second. That rate never slowed down. However, if I close the bleed valve for a few minutes then reopen it, the fluid flows free of bubbles for 10-15 seconds, then the bubbles return at the same pace. Here are two pictures separated by about 20 seconds.

Bleed valve has been open for about 5 seconds, and fluid is flowing:
http://www.pbase.com/image/79023241/medium.jpg

Bleed valve has been open for 20+ seconds, and bubbles have reappeared:
http://www.pbase.com/image/79023242/medium.jpg

Any thoughts on what the issue is?

Ferris
05-19-2007, 04:37 PM
Is the bleeder / cap seal good?

Also when you close the screw the bleeder hose drains leaving air pockets. You sure it's going from the brakes and not just the bleeder hose? ie does it dissappear once the bleeding start?

GroovinPickle
05-19-2007, 04:40 PM
Is the bleeder / cap seal good?
You mean on the Motive? Yes... meaning I did a pressure test prior to filling it with fluid and had no leaks.
Also when you close the screw the bleeder hose drains leaving air pockets. You sure it's going from the brakes and not just the bleeder hose? ie does it dissappear once the bleeding start?
I'm not sure what you mean, but the bubbles are definitely appearing from the bleed nipple and traveling down the hose.

Steve530
05-19-2007, 08:37 PM
I've used my Motive on 4 cars and never seen that happen. When I use my Motive, the fluid travels through the hose and completely fills the reservoir. Did you notice that? And, just to be sure, the Motive is vertical, right?

GroovinPickle
05-19-2007, 09:08 PM
I've used my Motive on 4 cars and never seen that happen. When I use my Motive, the fluid travels through the hose and completely fills the reservoir. Did you notice that? And, just to be sure, the Motive is vertical, right?
I had the same thought about it not filling the reservoir all the way, so I depressurized the bleeder (by very, very slowly unscrewing the cap from the bleeder tank) and then unscrewed the reservoir cap - it was full. I did notice that the hose from the bleeder to the reservoir has some air in it, but I didn't think anything of it.

http://www.pbase.com/image/79023238/large.jpg

StickSeven
05-19-2007, 09:21 PM
did you have a soft pedal after the brake flush? (were you doing a flush or bleeding it after changing a caliper/line/etc..) if you button everything up and it drives with a good brake pedal, i wouldnt worry. of all the brake flushes ive done in the shop (i recently started doing them with the motive unit, too) some have bubbles coming out the hose, and some dont. sometimes air gets inbetween the hose and the bleed screw making you think there is a problem,also.

Steve530
05-19-2007, 09:27 PM
Hmmm, not sure about that. I don't think that the air in the hose would get into the reservoir, but I guess I'd try removing the air from the hose.

Did you try another wheel?

GroovinPickle
05-19-2007, 09:38 PM
StickSeven, you may be right about air getting into the bleed hose at the bleed valve.

I haven't tried another wheel (yet) and I haven't put everything back together and gone for a drive. I shall give it a shot in the morning and see what I've got.

Steve530
05-19-2007, 09:48 PM
I've had the problem with bubbles from air coming in around the bleeder valve with a MityVac bleeder, but the Motive is pushing the fluid out. Anyway, if you think that's the problem, some Teflon tape around the bleed screw threads should reduce the bubbles if not eliminate it altogether.

GroovinPickle
05-20-2007, 11:28 AM
Well I gave it another shot this morning and it worked like a charm. I had the remaining three calipers done in about 15 minutes. All I did differently was make sure the bleed hose was submerged in fluid and the catch bottle was above the caliper.

White94RX
05-20-2007, 11:01 PM
we use vacuum bleeders at work. there's always bubbles in the vacuum hose when bleeding, even though there's no air in the system.

thejlevie
05-21-2007, 01:31 PM
This happens when:

a) the bleed screw is opened more than necessary
b) the catch bottle is lower than the bleed screw

When those conditions are met the siphon action produced by fluid falling through the tube will suck air in at the bleeder threads. You can easily avoid that by only opening the bleed screw enough for fluid to seep out (about 1/8-1/4 turn) and by keeping the catch bottle at or above the level of the bleed screw.

Steve530
05-21-2007, 06:24 PM
Well I gave it another shot this morning and it worked like a charm. I had the remaining three calipers done in about 15 minutes. All I did differently was make sure the bleed hose was submerged in fluid and the catch bottle was above the caliper.

Glad you got it working.

The Motive is the easiest way I've seen to bleed the brakes. I bought it to bleed the clutch slave cylinder on my previous car, a 944. Those were almost impossible to bleed any other way.

miklm
05-22-2007, 09:54 PM
Drew, will you bring your Motive bleeder to Barber?

thejlevie
05-22-2007, 10:47 PM
I'll try to remember to throw my pressure bleeder in with the other stuff that'll be taking to Barber if you need it.

But you should have flushed and/or bled the brakes as a part of prepping the car for its tech inspection for the event.

miklm
05-22-2007, 10:53 PM
I'll try to remember to throw my pressure bleeder in with the other stuff that'll be taking to Barber if you need it.

But you should have flushed and/or bled the brakes as a part of prepping the car for its tech inspection for the event.

Fresh Ate Blue fluid on 3/15/2007, car has one autocross and maybe 1000 street miles since it was done.

I've never used a Motive bleeder though; I just wanted to see one...

thejlevie
05-23-2007, 01:02 PM
Your fluid is fine, but the brakes need to be bled before Saturday.

gspdbill
05-24-2007, 03:49 PM
You don't have to keep the fluid catch cont. above the bleed screw but you do need to loop the bleed hose above the level of the bleed screw. I loop the bleed hose above/around the brake hard/flex line connection which causes the bled fluid to collect in the loop before flowing into the container (I use a large Gatoraid jug that I've drilled a hole in the cap and push the vinyl hose through). You will get very tiny bubbles in the bleed drain line if the bleed screw is opened too much but that shouldn't cause a problem, just close the screw slowly when your done bleeding to get the last little air out.