im hoping some of the more legal gurus in here can offer any type of advice on what my family can due regarding what i consider harassment towards our family from our HOA.


heres the scoop. Our family owns a 2000 Ford econoline Van which has no tow hitches and no roof racks and no type of company logos anywhere on the van. the van is just a plain white van which is used by my step dad and brother to go to wkr and come home every day. they do not transport any type of goods to or from home simply used for transportation to and from work.

the van is registered under my moms name and is tagged in gwinnett county and we pay normal vehical registration and taxes on the van and this vehicle does not require any type of special license to be operated.

we continually receive threatining letters from the HOA that they will take legal action if we do not remove our COMMERCIAL VEHICLE as they put it and also fine is daily.

we park 2 cars in the garage and the van is parked in our own drive way and not on the street or grass. we follow and obey rules like every other neighbor but they seem bent on running us out.

i see our van as being no different than joe smoe down the stree that has a full size pick up truck or dually in their drive way.

this has gone on for over 2 years almost and its very frustrating.

i have written a well thought out and worded letter last year and it did not help and we continue to be bothered.

so my question is can they really take legal action against us and are we in the wrong?

i have tried looking on google for definitions of a COMMERCIAL VEHICLE and the closet thing i can come to is one that is operated by a person that holds a CDL license or one that is used to tow trailers of any type or is used to transport goods in which profit is made.

our van fits none of those descriptions. i really dont want to have to get a attorney and pay legal fees just to prove a point when they coudl just leave us alone and let us be.


i really appreciate any help or advice anyone can offer.

Bill mentions his currently-held office in 5... 4... 3... 2... :ponder


Menawhile, I'd say unless they can prove it's a commercial vehicle, they're a bunch of snobs, and need to STFU. But you may indeed have to lawyer up briefly, even just for the drafting of an "official" letter, before they get the point. :shifty

Good luck!

:cool

What is the exact wording of the section of your covenants that they say you are violating?

If it's not in the covenants, they can't say anything to you. Game over.

If all else fails, spray paint "FREE CANDY" on the sides of it, and park it at school bus stops. Then they can start worrying about it. :devillook

What is the exact wording of the section of your covenants that they say you are violating?

If it's not in the covenants, they can't say anything to you. Game over.


here is the letter they sent us. of course they word it in a way that confuses a non legal oriented person.

the van does not tow any thing mentioned in the letter. we currently occupy the garage with 2 vehicles at al times thus the requirement of using the drive way for which it was intended parking additional vehicles. im not sure what they expect you to use a drive way for.

the van does not carry ladders, does not carry paint, does not tow stupid litle cement mixers and does not carry multiple people to a construction or job site where commercial supplies are used or transported.
now im not a legal guru so i may be missing a fine print or not reading between the lines if thats what they intend.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/nextelbuddy/document.jpg

Bill, here's the covenant section 5.25 they cite:

________________________________________

Section 5.25. Vehicles. All automobiles owned or used by Owners or by other than temporary guests and visitors shall be parked in garages to the extent that garage space is available, and garages shall not be used for storage or otherwise such that they become unavailable for the parking of cars therein. The Board shall have the authority to promulgate rules and regulations to govern or prohibit the outside storage or parking upon any Lot of any mobile home, trailer (either with or without wheels), motor home, tractor, truck, commercial vehicles of any type, camper, motorized camper or trailer, boat or other watercraft, boat trailer, motorcycle, motorized bicycle, motorized go-cart, or any other related forms of transportation devices. Furthermore, while not expressly prohibited hereby, the Board may at any time prohibit immobile homes, motor homes, campers, trailers of any kind, motorcycles, motorized bicycles, motorized go-carts, and other similar vehicles, or any of them, from being kept, placed, stored, maintained or operated upon any portion of the Property if in the opinion of the Board such prohibition shall be in the best interest of the subdivision. No Owners or other occupants of any portion of the Property shall repair or restore any vehicle of any kind upon or within any Lot except (i) within enclosed garages or workshops or (ii) for emergency repairs, and then only to the extent necessary to enable the movement thereof to a proper repair facility.

http://www.wyntreehoa.com/webcovenants2.htm

________________________________________


I say they're reaching. Start taking pictures of other trucks, vans, etc. in your neighborhood to show that yours is not an isolated case. Then, if they take you to court, counter-sue like hell for harrassment. :shifty

Bill, here's the covenant section 5.25 they cite:

________________________________________

Section 5.25. Vehicles. All automobiles owned or used by Owners or by other than temporary guests and visitors shall be parked in garages to the extent that garage space is available, and garages shall not be used for storage or otherwise such that they become unavailable for the parking of cars therein. The Board shall have the authority to promulgate rules and regulations to govern or prohibit the outside storage or parking upon any Lot of any mobile home, trailer (either with or without wheels), motor home, tractor, truck, commercial vehicles of any type, camper, motorized camper or trailer, boat or other watercraft, boat trailer, motorcycle, motorized bicycle, motorized go-cart, or any other related forms of transportation devices. Furthermore, while not expressly prohibited hereby, the Board may at any time prohibit immobile homes, motor homes, campers, trailers of any kind, motorcycles, motorized bicycles, motorized go-carts, and other similar vehicles, or any of them, from being kept, placed, stored, maintained or operated upon any portion of the Property if in the opinion of the Board such prohibition shall be in the best interest of the subdivision. No Owners or other occupants of any portion of the Property shall repair or restore any vehicle of any kind upon or within any Lot except (i) within enclosed garages or workshops or (ii) for emergency repairs, and then only to the extent necessary to enable the movement thereof to a proper repair facility.

http://www.wyntreehoa.com/webcovenants2.htm

________________________________________


I say they're reaching. Start taking pictures of other trucks, vans, etc. in your neighborhood to show that yours is not an isolated case. Then, if they take you to court, counter-sue like hell for harrassment. :shifty


Thanx Doc, i will go around the neighborhood and find other examples of trucks and vans.

i just dont see why i have to though. its a whole bunch of non sense, we arent hurting anyone. we arent loud we keep to our selves. we take care of our yard and outside of the house we are not rude and dont make comotion.

Go to a vinyl shop and print up a ton of "Jose's Lawn Care" stickers and put them on every pickup truck in the neighborhood. :rofl

It does say "Vehicles of ANY type". Like you mentioned...why does the rule apply to a van versus the trucks in the cul-de-sac? I think you should probably get an lawyer.


Is this the Van in question?

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g292/JasonLC/van.jpg

It does say "Vehicles of ANY type". Like you mentioned...why does the rule apply to a van versus the trucks in the cul-de-sac? I think you should probably get an lawyer.


Is this the Van in question?

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g292/JasonLC/van.jpg



yes thats the van. a plain white ford econoline van. exactly i dont see why our van violates rules when other people who have a full size pickup that is just as long wide and heavy as our van can park wit no issues.

interesting detective work. what site did you use? google earth doesnt show the van.

yes thats the van. a plain white ford econoline van. exactly i dont see why our van violates rules when other people who have a full size pickup that is just as long wide and heavy as our van can park wit no issues.

interesting detective work. what site did you use? google earth doesnt show the van.


:devillook


just kidding...Yellowpages.com has a "Maps and Directions" section. Once you get your map...there is a "Birds Eye View" choice. Then you can rotate around the access to get different view points.

http://www.yellowpages.com/sp/maps/;jsessionid=1WCSACLTQKK0BQFI21FRNWQ?pageName=MapsD ir_pg

Okay, first of all, the notice they sent you incorrectly spells the following words: regulations, go-cart, transportation and covenants. Friggin' weak-ass rookies....

Anyway, moving on to the more substantive issue at hand, the covenant specifically says "to the extent that garage space is available." As long as you only park the van in the driveway when the garage is full, you are good to go. If the van is not registered to a business and used in the daily operations of a business, it is not a commercial vehicle. It is simply used to commute to and from work.


Contact the board of directors as noted in the letter and request a hearing before the Board on this matter. I am sure that there is language somewhere in your covenants that clearly lays out the procedures to follow to appeal a board decision.

When you go to the hearing, bring the vehicle registration, pictures of the two other cars that are typically parked in the garage (while they are parked in the garage), and pictures of other large vehicles parked throughout the neighborhood.

Be professional and courteous. This is an easy victory for you. Do not mention harassment or any other threat against them.

:rofl: @ suburbia.

Okay, first of all, the notice they sent you incorrectly spells the following words: regulations, go-cart, transportation and covenants. Friggin' weak-ass rookies....

Anyway, moving on to the more substantive issue at hand, the covenant specifically says "to the extent that garage space is available." As long as you only park the van in the driveway when the garage is full, you are good to go. If the van is not registered to a business and used in the daily operations of a business, it is not a commercial vehicle. It is simply used to commute to and from work.


Contact the board of directors as noted in the letter and request a hearing before the Board on this matter. I am sure that there is language somewhere in your covenants that clearly lays out the procedures to follow to appeal a board decision.

When you go to the hearing, bring the vehicle registration, pictures of the two other cars that are typically parked in the garage (while they are parked in the garage), and pictures of other large vehicles parked throughout the neighborhood.

Be professional and courteous. This is an easy victory for you. Do not mention harassment or any other threat against them.


i undestand.

since they have requested a response by email this is the email i have written but have not sent yet. how does it look, anything i should change?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE: 2nd notice - 5245 Wyntree CT.



Dear Angela Griffith, We would like to request a hearing in front of the board on this matter. We would like an opportunity to speak in our defense. The covenant specifically says "to the extent that garage space is available." and we currently have 2 vehicles that occupy our garage at all times, secondly our vehicle a 2000 Ford econoline van that is not registered to a business and used in the daily operations of a business, there fore it is not a commercial vehicle. It is simply used to commute to and from work.

We would like the opportunity to speak on our behalf as we believe that our vehicle and situation does not fall into section 5.25 of the covenant. Please let us soon how we can go about an appeal process or hearing to resolve this matter in a professional and timely matter.

Regards,

i

RE: 2nd notice - 5245 Wyntree CT.



Dear Angela Griffith, We would like to request a hearing in front of the board on this matter to speak in our defense. The covenant specifically says "to the extent that garage space is available" and we currently have 2 vehicles that occupy our garage at all times. Additionally, our vehicle, a 2000 Ford econoline van, is not registered to a business nor used in the daily operation of a business; therefore, it is not a commercial vehicle. It is simply used to commute to and from work.

We would like the opportunity to speak on our behalf as we believe that our vehicle and situation does not fall into section 5.25 of the covenant. Please let us soon how we can go about an appeal process or hearing to resolve this matter in a professional and timely matter.

Regards,


Suggested changes in bold.

Suggested changes in bold.


Thanks Bill. it really sucks that we have to go through with any of this. they even sent the same letter i psoted above via regular mail as well as Certified letter at the same time which leaves me to believe they are leaning towards seeking legal action towards us which is not cool we arent criminals and are not hurting anyone.

This is exactly why, when I buy a house, I refuse to buy anything with a HOA.

Thanks Bill. it really sucks that we have to go through with any of this. they even sent the same letter i psoted above via regular mail as well as Certified letter at the same time which leaves me to believe they are leaning towards seeking legal action towards us which is not cool we arent criminals and are not hurting anyone.

No, they are simply required to send things via certified mail before they can fine you. It's not a big deal.

No, they are simply required to send things via certified mail before they can fine you. It's not a big deal.

got ya, fines are not cool either. thanx for the advice. if legal action is a step that is necessary do you deal with this type of legal issue?

This is exactly why, when I buy a house, I refuse to buy anything with a HOA.

HOA's, in many instances, add an appreciable amount of value to a community. Imagine this was a situation where this guy was parking a ratty vehicle in front of his house every day. That decreases property values and there isn't really jack you can do about it without an HOA.

I agreed with you until I actually bought my first place. Then I decided that HOA's are a great thing, especially if you get on the Board and become involved.

got ya, fines are not cool either. thanx for the advice

Any time.

:wave

Suggested changes in bold.

That'll be $400.

He accepts Visa, AMEX, Discover, & Cheetah points.

Any time.

:wave

if legal action is a step that is necessary do you deal with this type of legal issue?

That'll be $400.

He accepts Visa, AMEX, Discover, & Cheetah points.

I prefer Cheetah points! :rofl

if legal action is a step that is necessary do you deal with this type of legal issue?

No, sir. But if it comes to that, I can refer you to a few folks that do handle this stuff.

I prefer Cheetah points!
No, sir. But if it comes to that, I can refer you to a few folks that do handle this stuff.

Yeah, send him on to King & Spaulding........

Yeah, send him on to King & Spaulding........

:rofl:

That would actually be my last choice!

:rofl:

I thought you might appreciate the irony.

Ummm
WTF do they need a big-ass van for? Trade it on a Mini.
Problem solved.

I don't take Cheetah points, but I do take Coke and I work for less than Bill does.

Ummm
WTF do they need a big-ass van for? Trade it on a Mini.
Problem solved.

I don't take Cheetah points, but I do take Coke and I work for less than Bill does.


the point is it doesnt matter what we have it for. its our van its not commercial and its primary mode of transportation to and from work.

thats what im trying to get across to the HOA

I think the proper solution is to slap stickers all over your E36, take pictures of it in your garage, and say "This is my commercial vehicle, I park it in my garage, now leave me alone."
On second thought, don't do that.

I'm just curious, but what kind of "business" does your brother and step dad do they that they just use it to drive to and from work, but it's not used for work during the day. I don't quite picture two men in suits or nicely dressed office clothes riding in huge van every day. No company names needed, just the type of work involved. I call bullshit on the whole the truck is just a mode of transportation, but I would be pissed as well since obviously someone probably caught on even though the truck isn't labeled or registered as such. Someone in my HOA bitched at someone in my hood when they parked there work van in the driveway. Only diff was, his shit was plastered with his hardwood floors company info all over.

Lame!!!

My parents live in a community and I car pooled with another friend that went to school with me. I would drive 1 week he would drive the next or when it was snowing. Either way he would drive to my house as it was on the way to school. If I was driving he would park in front of my house and we take my car. Now School started at 7:30 and it was a 45 minute drive and we liked to get there early in case of traffic. We got letters from the HOA saying that you cannot park cars on the street overnight. We sent back letters telling them the situation. We filled the appeal and when and fought it and it was our neighbor across the street... We won once we explained the situation. It was like they did NOT read our return letter.

Till I moved I always had extra revving of my B&B Tri-Flo when I drove in front of his house at 6:15 in the morning. Jerk.

HOA's, in many instances, add an appreciable amount of value to a community. Imagine this was a situation where this guy was parking a ratty vehicle in front of his house every day. That decreases property values and there isn't really jack you can do about it without an HOA.

I agreed with you until I actually bought my first place. Then I decided that HOA's are a great thing, especially if you get on the Board and become involved.

Yah Ken, Like I told you pwned! My dad was on the HOA in charge of landscaping both front entrances when we lived in Roswell in the late 90s. Inverness and Riverbluff at Inverness. We did not have to pay the yearly fee and on top of that he got to do what he loved and use the HOA money to landscape the front entrances and they ALWAYS looked great!!! Now they look like some moron is handling it.

But HOA adds value, having garbage, engine blocks and rotted out cars in your yard make it look cheap. HOA maintains the overall look, everything is nice and clean(you will be required to make lawn look nice) and it is a great thing.

I'm just curious, but what kind of "business" does your brother and step dad do they that they just use it to drive to and from work, but it's not used for work during the day. I don't quite picture two men in suits or nicely dressed office clothes riding in huge van every day. No company names needed, just the type of work involved. I call bullshit on the whole the truck is just a mode of transportation, but I would be pissed as well since obviously someone probably caught on even though the truck isn't labeled or registered as such. Someone in my HOA bitched at someone in my hood when they parked there work van in the driveway. Only diff was, his shit was plastered with his hardwood floors company info all over.



my family has a wholesale business. SOMETIMES they use the van to go pick up a few boxes of t shirts from their distributor. these boxes are too large to fit into a normal car and thats it. we do not bring anything home, never have and never will.

i could understand if the van had advertisements all over it or company logos or ladders hanging off of it but it doesnt.

Ok Bill lets see what kind of response you think i should have for this lady.

here goes.

heres her email to me.


Dear Mr. /Mrs. Park,
My name is Elaine LaVoy and I am the Wyntree ACC Chairperson.
Thank you for contacting Angela at Heritage with your requests concerning the vehicle violation.
I believe the issue can be solved very simply. Since you have parking for 2 vehicles in your garage, please use one of those places to park your Econoline Van. That would very easily resolve the issue in a timely, professional manner.
Wyntree HOA/ACC defines commercial/work vehicles to include vehicles lacking passenger windows on both sides ( passenger vans do have passenger windows on both sides) and/or vehicles unable to fit in resident garages, regardless of how they may or may not be used. As the pictures attached show, your vehicle has no passenger windows on the driver's side.
We ask that you comply with the request immediately so that you may avoid fines. The ACC feels that you have had ample time to resolve this situation, since the first violation was sent March 26.
Please let me know if you have further questions.
Sincerely,
Elaine LaVoy
Wyntree ACC Chair



so far this is what i have written in response to her but cant seem to think of what else to point out.


some how she is telling us that we are violating their Definition of Commercial vehicle yet this defintion was not in the covenant and not in any of the letters they have sent.


My letter.:


Dear Elaine,

I appreciate the prompt response but do not see anywhere in the covenant your definition of a "commercial" vehicle. not having this definition in the covenant and also not sending this definition in the numerous letters sent to our house leaves your definition open to interpretation it would appear as you have interpreted your definition this way.

I too have several pictures of other vehicles in the neighborhood as well that violate this same rule as you have put it. One neighbor even has a SUV with Company logos for Landscaping on it and parks at their residence every day/night and I see no difference in how where they park their vehicle as we do.


I do not see a reason why we have to park our van in the garage nor be fined when we are not violating the covenant according to what we have been sent.

Ok Bill lets see what kind of response you think i should have for this lady.

here goes.

heres her email to me.




so far this is what i have written in response to her but cant seem to think of what else to point out.


some how she is telling us that we are violating their Definition of Commercial vehicle yet this defintion was not in the covenant and not in any of the letters they have sent.


My letter.:

The covenant says that the Board may promulgate rules regarding this topic. Ask her for either (a) the rules that the Board has promulgated regarding the definition of "commercial vehicles" or (b) a copy of the minutes of the Board meeting at which this definition she mentions was approved by the Board.

You could also explain that you are not violating the covenant as set forth in the notice you received. If you are violating some other rule, the Board shoudl specifically provide notice of what rule you are violating prior to threatening you with adverse action.


I would also state that their definition of "commercial vehicle" is arbitrary and not tied to the widely-accepted meaning and/or definition of the word "commercial" in any way.

I would also say that you have every right to prioritize which of your vehicles will be exposed to the elements and potential crime. However, if they want to take responsibility for any potential harm that may befall your other vehicles that would be displaced by parking your van in the garage, you would be willing to negotiate such an arrangement with them.



Just a few thoughts.

The covenant says that the Board may promulgate rules regarding this topic. Ask her for either (a) the rules that the Board has promulgated regarding the definition of "commercial vehicles" or (b) a copy of the minutes of the Board meeting at which this definition she mentions was approved by the Board.

You could also explain that you are not violating the covenant as set forth in the notice you received. If you are violating some other rule, the Board shoudl specifically provide notice of what rule you are violating prior to threatening you with adverse action.


I would also state that their definition of "commercial vehicle" is arbitrary and not tied to the widely-accepted meaning and/or definition of the word "commercial" in any way.

I would also say that you have every right to prioritize which of your vehicles will be exposed to the elements and potential crime. However, if they want to take responsibility for any potential harm that may befall your other vehicles that would be displaced by parking your van in the garage, you would be willing to negotiate such an arrangement with them.



Just a few thoughts.


all sounds like very excellent choices. sounds like you are or have experience on your HOA board lol.

all sounds like very excellent choices. sounds like you are or have experience on your HOA board lol.

I am the President of my HOA.

But these are more lawyer remarks than HOA remarks.

I am the President of my HOA.

But these are more lawyer remarks than HOA remarks.

well i have attempted to integrate the words of choice you have suggested into my letter.

i have not sent it yet but it feels right to send it even that last remark about prioritizing how we park our vehicles.

Dear Elaine,

I appreciate the prompt response but still have a few concerns. All of the letters we have received via standard mail and certified letter have all said the same thing as far as the section of the covenant we are violating. i still do not see where we are violating section 5.25 of your covenant. The covenant says that the Board may promulgate rules regarding this topic, and it sounds like thats what you are doing when you state

"Wyntree HOA/ACC defines commercial/work vehicles to include vehicles lacking passenger windows on both sides ( passenger vans do have passenger windows on both sides) and/or vehicles unable to fit in resident garages, regardless of how they may or may not be used"


I would like to request (a) the rules that the Board has promulgated regarding the definition of "commercial vehicles" and/or (b) a copy of the minutes of the Board meeting at which this definition you mention was approved by the Board.

I would also state that your definition of "commercial vehicle" is arbitrary and not tied to the widely-accepted meaning and/or definition of the word "commercial" in any way. Also I would like to say that we have every right to prioritize which of our vehicles will be exposed to the elements and potential crime. However, if the board wants to take responsibility for any potential harm that may befall our other vehicles that would be displaced by parking our van in the garage, We would be willing to negotiate such an arrangement..

Currently we have several photos that display other neighbors violating section 5.25 that have Company logos or advertisements, other vans in the subdivision as well as large full size trucks that have tow hitches.

Sincerely,
Park Family

Nice pwn them!

I bet I could not park my vehicle outside because I have a work decal on the window!

well i have attempted to integrate the words of choice you have suggested into my letter.

i have not sent it yet but it feels right to send it even that last remark about prioritizing how we park our vehicles.

There are a whole bunch of typos in there that you should fix before you send it. Typos detract from your message and come across as unprofessional and rushed.

But the content is perfect.

well i have attempted to integrate the words of choice you have suggested into my letter.

i have not sent it yet but it feels right to send it even that last remark about prioritizing how we park our vehicles.
I'm going to nitpick a bit (but so are lawyers), but you have two periods after arrangement in your second to last paragraph. There are several other typos, but that's a start. Good luck and keep us updated!

There are a whole bunch of typos in there that you should fix before you send it. Typos detract from your message and come across as unprofessional and rushed.

But the content is perfect.



really? I just proof read again and didnt see any. i suppose this is why i do not have a job position as a legal proof reader. :embarrasm

really? I just proof read again and didnt see any. i suppose this is why i do not have a job position as a legal proof reader. :embarrasm
"violating. i still"

"same thing as far as the section of the covenant we are violating" should probably be changed to "indicate the same violation of covenant section 5.25"

"and it sounds like thats what you are doing when you state " should become "similarly to a section in your most recent correspondence which states: "

I'd remove the "I would also state" from your second to last paragraph, it doesn't add anything to your argument.

Your last paragraph which has the phrase " display other neighbors violating section" should read "display other neighbors in violation of section"

Company is not capitalized. Board probably isn't either.

"that have Company logos or advertisements, other vans in the subdivision as well as large full size trucks that have tow hitches" should read "because of company logos or advertisements, because they are similar vans, or they are large trucks with tow hitches attached."

There may be other stuff, this is just a cursory look through. Other thoughts?

Dear Elaine,

I appreciate the prompt response but still have a few concerns. All of the letters we have received via standard mail and certified letter have all cited the same section of the covenants that we are allegedly violating. I still do not see where we are violating section 5.25 of the covenants. The covenant says that the Board may promulgate rules regarding this topic, and it sounds like that's what you are referring to in this paragraph:

"Wyntree HOA/ACC defines commercial/work vehicles to include vehicles lacking passenger windows on both sides ( passenger vans do have passenger windows on both sides) and/or vehicles unable to fit in resident garages, regardless of how they may or may not be used..."


I would like to request (a) the rules that the Board has promulgated regarding the definition of "commercial vehicles" and/or (b) a copy of the minutes of the Board meeting at which this definition you mention was approved by the Board.

I would also like to state that your definition of "commercial vehicle" is arbitrary and not tied to the widely-accepted meaning and/or definition of the word "commercial" in any way. Also, we have every right to prioritize which of our vehicles will be exposed to the elements and potential crime. However, if the Board wants to take responsibility for any potential harm that may befall our other vehicles that would be displaced by parking our van in the garage, we would be willing to negotiate such an arrangement.

Currently we have several photos that depict other neighbors similarly violating section 5.25 as such vehicles have Company logos or advertisements. Additionally, there are other vans in the subdivision as well as large full size trucks that have tow hitches.

Sincerely,
The Park Family

have all said cited

:az

:az

Fixed.

I was rushing! I am trying to do real work at the same time!

Just do what i do Shawn, avoid all certified letters. I have gotten 3 from my HOA and i wont sign for them, according to covenants they cant cahrge you until you have signed for that letter.

NO Certified LETTER IS A GOOD LETTER!!! They all evil, avoid at all cost!!

Put a vinyl sticker of a window on the passenger side of the van.

What if your personal vehicle was a semi tractor? Some of those have passenger side windows.

Man, people really do have nothing better to do than f-around with their neighbors.

Hmmm....Good fences make good neighbors!

Fixed.

I was rushing! I am trying to do real work at the same time!

Hey bill i really apreciate you taking your time out of your day to assist. it means a lot.

in these days with so much going on something like this just throws unneeded frustation into the fire. if we ever meet ill buy you your choice of beer

Just do what i do Shawn, avoid all certified letters. I have gotten 3 from my HOA and i wont sign for them, according to covenants they cant cahrge you until you have signed for that letter.

NO Certified LETTER IS A GOOD LETTER!!! They all evil, avoid at all cost!!


man they got me. they changed names of their HOA and i didnt recognize the name since my mom kept the other letters somewhere else then i read them all together.

Refusing to sign for a certified letter from your HOA is the basically the same as receiving it. You have to remember that you bought your home subject to the covenants and you are legally obligated to comply with them. HOA's in Georgia are incredibly powerful organizations. You may win a battle every once in a while, but you'll lose the war.

Wow...

I'm sorry to see that you are going thru a hard time with your HOA. They can be a pain sometimes, but are good in some ways. For example, my boss wanted to build and paint a white fence around his yard and had to have HOA approval first. It was for his daughter so she can play in the front yard. A pain, but I can see where they are coming from in some situations. On the other hand, what your HOA is doing in your situation is complete BS.

Keep fighting.

I agree with cwaters, trade that thing in for a suburban or something. I know it's the principal of the thing, but you did say yourself that they sometimes use the vehicle for p/u - delivery. I do not think this problem is going to just go away. You might win, until there are new members on the board & new neighbors complaining.
You could use any other vehicle for work purposes every day and it wouldn't be a problem with the HOA. That white van is just known as a "work" van. It always will be.

That white van is just known as a "work" van. It always will be.

This is true. My old company had nothing but white work vans.

just take the van in to get a full body vinyl wrap. make that thing look like an SUV. if they still dont like that then start throwing bricks through their windows :D

first, HOAs can be great things - if run by the right individuals/foundations. remember how much you hate your hoa when one of your neighbors parks and starts living in their beat up RV while you are trying to sell your house.

second, it means nothing to your situation or the legality or it, but I certainly understand the concerns of your neighbors. That type of van totally screams commercial vehicle to me (and it sounds a bit like it is used for commercial purposes by your own admission).

good luck!

first, HOAs can be great things - if run by the right individuals/foundations. remember how much you hate your hoa when one of your neighbors parks and starts living in their beat up RV while you are trying to sell your house.

second, it means nothing to your situation or the legality or it, but I certainly understand the concerns of your neighbors. That type of van totally screams commercial vehicle to me (and it sounds a bit like it is used for commercial purposes by your own admission).

good luck!

I agree. All they see is two guys get in and out the van every morning and afternoon probably not wearing office type of clothing, and they're assuming you are in some type of business where the van is being used even though they don't know for sure. If I lived in your hood and saw two guys(father and son) get in the van everyday with probably jeans, untucked shirts, and maybe a ball cap , I would think the same thing as the HOA. It doesn't make it right, but I assume they caught on. They probably see it as what family of four buys a plain white van with no side windows and probably only one or two row of seats and all of that space in the rear if it isn't used for some type of business.

I agree. All they see is two guys get in and out the van every morning and afternoon probably not wearing office type of clothing, and they're assuming you are in some type of business where the van is being used even though they don't know for sure. If I lived in your hood and saw two guys(father and son) get in the van everyday with probably jeans, untucked shirts, and maybe a ball cap , I would think the same thing as the HOA. It doesn't make it right, but I assume they caught on. They probably see it as what family of four buys a plain white van with no side windows and probably only one or two row of seats and all of that space in the rear if it isn't used for some type of business.


Man mexican buy them all the time to haul there familes around,so does that mean its a commercial car?
I know shawn and his family use this van alot more for personal stuff rather then buisness,before shawn and i could afford a truck we used it too haul are motors and stuff around,its just a enclosed truck!
I mean trucks have 3 windows does that make them commercial vehicles?

This car is titled and register under a person name, no buisness! So how can they say what the car is used for it toally stupid!

I agree. All they see is two guys get in and out the van every morning and afternoon probably not wearing office type of clothing, and they're assuming you are in some type of business where the van is being used even though they don't know for sure. If I lived in your hood and saw two guys(father and son) get in the van everyday with probably jeans, untucked shirts, and maybe a ball cap , I would think the same thing as the HOA. It doesn't make it right, but I assume they caught on. They probably see it as what family of four buys a plain white van with no side windows and probably only one or two row of seats and all of that space in the rear if it isn't used for some type of business.


I just think it's majorly ghey that an HOA can tell you wtf to do with your vehicle, or anything to do with your house for that matter.

Man mexican buy them all the time to haul there familes around,so does that mean its a commercial car?
I know shawn and his family use this van alot more for personal stuff rather then buisness,before shawn and i could afford a truck we used it too haul are motors and stuff around,its just a enclosed truck!
I mean trucks have 3 windows does that make them commercial vehicles?

This car is titled and register under a person name, no buisness! So how can they say what the car is used for it toally stupid!

I no dude. This is to lame. We should be able to park are ugly ass vans wherever we want.


;)

I wonder if it is one of the neighbors that is filing the complaint with the HOA. Might be worth asking if the management company who is writing on behalf of the HOA has actually come out to look...

I just think it's majorly ghey that an HOA can tell you wtf to do with your vehicle, or anything to do with your house for that matter.

Then don't move into a neighborhood with an HOA? I can understand the frustration in this situation, but as everyone has said there are plenty of advantages to having an HOA.

I no dude. This is to lame. We should be able to park are ugly ass vans wherever we want.


;)

I saw what you did.

thats exactly it. they think it doesnt make the neighborhood look good. so i say, put that bad boy on some gold 26's, paint in pimp purple with some gold trim, and a vinyl window and you shouldnt receive any complaints after that.

I think they have 15 days to give you a hearing, if not then they have no argument. At least that is what our covenants say.

I just took over President of our association. At a bad time too, but we are working through it. Now if I could just get the former president to pay annual dues..................................

Then don't move into a neighborhood with an HOA?

Thats the plan :shifty