hey everyone,
how are you all? i just have a question about that performance enhancing fuel optimax. i own an E28 and it takes super/leaded fuel. what i need to know is i was wondering if my car is able to use that performance enhancing fuel, and if so just say i have about 10L of fuel left, am i able to mix it up with my already leaded fuel?

if you could help me out with this question i'd be really thankful

badboy:evil2

You should be fine to use unleaded fuel in the 528i(?).
Not sure of the compression ratio of your engine, but if its not over say 10.5-11:1 you shouldnt have a problem with predetonation/"pinging"
Lead was just used for octane boosting and also to lubricate/protect the valve and valve seats back in the day but was removed because it destroyed catalytic converters and would pollute too much by todays standards.
Your M30 (if its a 528i) has an aluminium head but steel valve seats if im correct, so they wont have a wearing/burning probs running unleaded. As usual just keep them properly adjusted :)

PS optimax isnt really performance enhancing... its just a higher octane... you only need an octane high enough to avoid predetonation/pinging and anythign higher is a waste of money. So laugh at those guys who think their stock V8 gets an extra 50hp from running AVGAS :laugh
but hey, its better safe than sorry, i only use premium unleaded too :)

Heres a more in-depth article on the matter:

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/unlead01.htm

hope this helps.

Originally posted by CafeRacer

PS optimax isnt really performance enhancing... its just a higher octane... you only need an octane high enough to avoid predetonation/pinging and anythign higher is a waste of money. So laugh at those guys who think their stock V8 gets an extra 50hp from running AVGAS :laugh
but hey, its better safe than sorry, i only use premium unleaded too :)

Duh, running a higher octane fuel does increase your performance, you can run higher compression and boost more safely that you would on normal 91 RON.

You are telling me that between running Motorsport107 (110RON) from 91 RON there will be no performance increase whatsoever?

Only if your enigne is tuned for it.

Originally posted by ultim8DTM5
Duh, running a higher octane fuel does increase your performance, you can run higher compression and boost more safely that you would on normal 91 RON.

You are telling me that between running Motorsport107 (110RON) from 91 RON there will be no performance increase whatsoever?

It will only increase your performance if you HAVE actually modified the engine and there is predetonation occurring.

Go and fill your Barinas tank with 91RON, dyno it. Then fill it with 110RON and dyno it. There will be no difference.

My bad, its called Motorsport103 and it is 107.5RON.

I find that with my car, there are noticable gains (smoother running) when using BP Ultimate compared to 91RON, however pyschological it may be still can be argued. However, whats good for fuel economy is good for me.

Here's some interesting information found on the boutique fuels from someone that I have been in contact with.

Some further info on VP Fuels.... a product called Motorsport 103,
will support up to 12.5:1 compression, has a 3 - 8% power gain over Av Gas, is rated at 107.5 Ron (octane) and has a spec gravity of .743, similar to pump gas. VP Fuels mentioned to me about government regulation to lower PULP octane to 89 - 91 by 2005. The web site he said it was on is www.ea.gov.au but I couldn't find anything about it, maybe you guys might have better luck. He says Motorsport 103 was used at the Summernats in Horsepower Heroes recently. Maybe this is getting off the track a bit, the original question asked was Synergy or Optimax and we have already established the answer as neither, that BP Ultimate is the best. The suggestion is, Ultimate is straight from the pump @ 98, the others are blended with differrent %'s of Ethanol etc, to get their octane rating.

ELF 124, it is purely Racing Fuel and not street legal as best as I can find out at present. Get caught with it in your car on the street and cop the fine, $110,000.00 for the user and $500,000.00 to the supplier. ELF 124 is about $8/l.

Motorsport 103 is street legal.

The testing was to analyse the Density, Benzine content, Sulphur content, Distillation, Driveability index, Copper Corrosion, Final Boiling Point etc. Will give some idea and compare to regular ULP.

MY OCTANE TESTS:

BP Ultimate 98 Tested at 98.8

Mobil Synergy 8000 Tested at 98.5

Shell Optimax Tested at 98.3

Both BP and Mobil have less than 0.4% Benzine and Sulphur content and falls well below the max driveability index and Shell has over 3.0% and exceeds the max allowable index and if it stays as is will be illegal when the driveability index is legislated later this year.

Results: (short form)

SHELL OPTIMAX
Under it's present formulation, it will not pass the drivability index set down by the EPA for fossil fuels, that will become law sometime in 2003 (1 July) at a guess and therefore will be illegal to sell. Also, it contains over 4% Benzine & Sulphur and tested at 98.3 octane (RON). So if you want to breath all of this SH1T go for it, we will all come and visit you in La La Land.
For Optimax to meet the drivability index, the company must spend MULTI MEGA MILLIONS of DOLLARS on their refinery to allow them to crack LOW SULPHUR crude oils.

MOBIL SYNERGY 8000
Contains less than 0.4% Benzine & Sulphur, tested at 98.5 octane (RON) and complies with the drivability index NOW!! as is. A much cleaner, more environmentally friendly fossil fuel.

BP ULTIMATE
Contains similar quantities of Benzine & Sulphur to Mobil and tested at 98.8 octane (RON) and also complies.
GETS MY VOTE as NUMBER1.

"G" EVOLUTION
After some lengthy discussion and research, this fuel from Traffigura compares favourably with both BP Ultimate & MOBIL Synergy 8000 in all aspects. What you must decide is this, Evolution is not manufacture here, it is produced in Singapore and transported here via tanker and stored in Melbourne.

As for Gemini's using Optimax, Why not? they're both sh1t.
Works for me!!!

But on the other hand, if they were using REAL high octane fuel, just maybe they might get some benefit from it, after all, with all the crap they are putting in ordinary ULP these days, who would be silly enough to use anything else.

What does benzine and sulphur contents mean? The Benzine & Sulphur content has zilch to do with performance, it has everything to do with the AIR we have to breath after the fossil fuel is burnt in our cars.

BTW if anyone wants to know where to get Motorsport103 PM me and I will send you the details. It comes in 20L drums and with a nice premium, but it is street legal! AVGAS was declared illegal for street use on the 1st January 2002, as it had a lead content of over 30%ppv. Running AVGAS would mean changing your cat converter every 1000kms, so high is the lead content.

Pete.

hey thankyou all very much for your replies, it helps so much when you want to ask a question, but when you ask people who don't have bmw's what to use they give a completely different answer.
thanku
badboy

badboybarge:

At my local BP there is a sticker on the bowser saying something along the lines of "Leaded car users: ask inside about an additive that you can use to run unleaded fuels" as there is no leaded pumps at this particular BP station.

I can ask about it if you like.

There is no underground society in attaining VP, there are plenty of distributors, Hume Performance in Warrick Farm being a major retailer but I have the Australian distributors number too,
mmm C16, 117 ocatne rating think of the boost your could run!!!

Avgas is a lot harder to attain, you can't just rock up at the airport, usually Bankstown for me with a drum and get it anymore, you need all this paper work that if your a circuit racer has CAMS details and acredits the fuels use for competition use only, can't recall it all at the moment

I wasnt implying a 'underground secret society' but where I attained some was from VP Motorsport 103 can be bought from Hume Performance Unit 1B El Toro Estate Business Park Homepride Ave Warwick Farm like you said Erik, and 20L will now cost you about $110.00 incl GST.

VP Fuels can be contacted on (02) 9821 1128, the man's name is John if anybody is interested.


Edit: didn't want to leave the post with a 'C' in Erik.
:stickoutt

Originally posted by EZ 2002
[B]There is no underground society in attaining VP, there are plenty of distributors, Hume Performance in Warrick Farm being a major retailer but I have the Australian distributors number too,
mmm C16, 117 ocatne rating think of the boost your could run!!!
[B]

Get Herbert to run 60psi :astromile

hey that sounds really helpful

this thread made some good reading! :)

so if i was to mix in some motorsport 103 it would do nothing for performance?
always wanted to play with fuels.. hehe :95

alot of my friends have now started using the optimax stuff and they've said that they can really feel a difference in their car, mind you i hope it's true about what they say with it being very healthy and clean for the car

Hey Pete, good to see your using the real stuff mate!!
Would like to use VP in the race car but the cost is something to factor in, it quite a bit more expensive then Avgas, maybe one day....

As for the Optimax thing, I see the use of a higher octane fuel as more of a means of protection for the engine from detonation then improved performance, unless you tune the engine to suit the better quality of fuel with more aggresive ignition timing or run more boost in a turbo car with modified fuel settings, etc in an otherwise stock car i doubt very much you'll feel a big difference in performance.

Cafe Racer:
Pre detonation? WTF? Don't you mean Pre Ignition, when the air fuel mixture ignites before the spark plug is fired which is usually caused by a source of heat in the combustion chamber
eg glowing carbon build up

Originally posted by EZ 2002

Cafe Racer:
Pre detonation? WTF? Don't you mean Pre Ignition, when the air fuel mixture ignites before the spark plug is fired which is usually caused by a source of heat in the combustion chamber
eg glowing carbon build up

Detonation is another word for Pre-Ignition. So i mixed and matched, so sue me :) hehe
yes, and it can usually be cured by using a higher octane fuel if that is the predetermining factor.

Originally posted by CafeRacer
Detonation is another word for Pre-Ignition. So i mixed and matched, so sue me :) hehe.

They're two different things, detonation is when two flame fronts hit each other in the combustion chamber, pre ignition can be a cause of it though.....

Your the Vet and I am the mechanic! :) hehe j/k

Originally posted by EZ 2002
They're two different things, detonation is when two flame fronts hit each other in the combustion chamber, pre ignition can be a cause of it though.....

Your the Vet and I am the mechanic! :) hehe j/k

yeh, the two flame fronts collide, which gives a sudden rise in cylinder pressure and heat, causing the fuel to "pre-ignite" (before the spark plugs fire) and also gives you the metallic pinging sound...
My mums old Volvo 244 had this problem
it was on leaded fuel already... so pretty high octane.
maybe the cam timing was too advanced?? but i dont think they were adjustable on that engine? meh, who cares, she sold it! :D

Originally posted by CafeRacer
It will only increase your performance if you HAVE actually modified the engine and there is predetonation occurring.

Go and fill your Barinas tank with 91RON, dyno it. Then fill it with 110RON and dyno it. There will be no difference.

This will be a 1st, But I agree with Adam And Kenny.

Unless your car is tuned for it, there wont be any difference.

Someone needs to Sue Shell for there bullshit commercials.
"when i use optimax, there is more power it runs smoother and i drive a 1992 carolla" PPPPPPFFFFFFFFFTTT!

Adam#1: If you read my first post I said "higher compression and boost" obviously not talking about my own car!!! I have experience with 110RON but not in the barina, that's just silly...

Adam#2: Unless your car is tuned for it, there wont be any difference. Your car does not have to be tuned specifically for a higher RON fuel to experience the benefits of a higher RON fuel.

For example, there are countless stock turbocharged cars that will take a tank of 91RON, however if moved to a much more staple diet of 98RON performance will benefit because as discussed above, not only is efficiency at stake but also the life of the engine.

Ever wonder why you don't see any Ford XR6/8 Highway Patrol Vehicles anymore? The Police Service (Sorry Mr Costa, FORCE) wouldnt foot the bill to pay for boutique fuel bills and Ford refused to warranty the cars because of this.

Perhaps the focus of boutique fuels should be moved away from performance in road cars to efficiency and reliability. And IIRC, Shell no longer claim performance gains by using their fuel.

Originally posted by ultim8DTM5

Ever wonder why you don't see any Ford XR6/8 Highway Patrol Vehicles anymore? The Police Service (Sorry Mr Costa, FORCE) wouldnt foot the bill to pay for boutique fuel bills and Ford refused to warranty the cars because of this.
youll notice their compression is near 10:1 stock...

My barina is 10.5:1 stock...