Do any of you know where I can find info about city zoning and development for building things like a race track? I can't really go into detail about the layout, but I'm not looking at anything too big. A 1.5 to 1.75 mile track with various turns, and some other things to go with it. This will be part of a business and not my own personal track. Also any other info you can supply will be great. I've lived here all 22 years of my life and I think the people of metro Atlanta need something a little closer than Road Atlanta. This won't be used for races, but more for things like renting it out for test sessions and open track days for local car clubs and events. I've talked with a few people involved with land development and they told me they wouldn't even know where to start for something like building a track, due to possible environmental concerns and other things.

oh wow... as dumb as this may seem... i have never thought of building a track around where i live... EXCELLENT idea but sorry i have no info... definitely subscribed to the thread very curious

good luck with that any closer than Road Atlanta.

Mike

I hear they are clearing out buckhead. That would be a great spot for a nearby race track. I can see it now, the hairpin after the 3 block straight could be called "Moondog". ("hole in the wall" would be too long of a name IMO)

Im no Herman Tilke, but I think it could get FIA certification. The corners pay homage to all the fine establishments that use to be in the area. And of course, a "Senna" corner, not unlike any F1 circuit.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g193/M3BimmerBilly/buckheadcircuit.jpg

Monaco GP for measure:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g193/M3BimmerBilly/moncao.jpg

I hear they are clearing out buckhead. That would be a great spot for a nearby race track. I can see it now, the hairpin after the 3 block straight could be called "Moondog". ("hole in the wall" would be too long of a name IMO)

Im no Herman Tilke, but I think it could get FIA certification. The corners pay homage to all the fine establishments that use to be in the area. And of course, a "Senna" corner, not unlike any F1 circuit.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g193/M3BimmerBilly/buckheadcircuit.jpg

Monaco GP for measure:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g193/M3BimmerBilly/moncao.jpg

LMAO that would be awesome!

OMG I hope you build a track I'm down

Do any of you know where I can find info about city zoning and development for building things like a race track? I can't really go into detail about the layout, but I'm not looking at anything too big. A 1.5 to 1.75 mile track with various turns, and some other things to go with it. This will be part of a business and not my own personal track. Also any other info you can supply will be great. I've lived here all 22 years of my life and I think the people of metro Atlanta need something a little closer than Road Atlanta. This won't be used for races, but more for things like renting it out for test sessions and open track days for local car clubs and events. I've talked with a few people involved with land development and they told me they wouldn't even know where to start for something like building a track, due to possible environmental concerns and other things.

I dont know where to start. Cost would be a great place to start, i figure for 1.75mile track your looking at bare minimum 4M$ for the track (just the road). Plus property, which is 300K-1.3M per acre in metro area ( I assume you will need commercial). Other than that man, good luck.. The money will be the easy part. Dont think about coming to Cobb County, i know you will get laughed at here; and likely other metro Countys will do the same. Building it out in the sticks is your best bet, but even then your only saving on property cost. Good luck, you are gonna need it.

Closer to Atlanta than Road Atlanta? Not a chance.

Road Atlanta is already under pressure. They have both noise restrictions and they can't run Sunday morning.

I would think an hour south or west of Atlanta is where you are going to end up. East towards Lake Oconee is suburbanzing, and North is pretty much already suburban all the way to Tennessee.

Well Hey there is an old abandoned airport off of 75 going toward snellville, Check that out!!

^ You are very correct. When I originally thought of the idea I thought the money was going to be impossible to come by, but that has been the easiest part of the whole thing. So many sponsors love the idea we have brought forth and some big names have given the thumbs up. Like I said this will be more than just a track, but I can't really go into detail. Your part about the metro area is what really scares me because that's where we want it to be. I live in Cobb County and I've talked to some people and it seems the city council is in love with Wal-Mart and cluster home manufacturers at the moment. Not to mention all the old people who are reluctant to any kind of change. I figured with what I'm proposing it could keep a lot of younger people from street racing down Barrett Pkwy and on 75 about to kill one another and take it to a controlled environment. Being totally realistic about the whole thing I have started to look towards the Dallas and Paulding Co. area, but in my ultimate dream I would find some way to build it in Cobb or even Alpharetta/Roswell area. The land acquisition is something that we want to take care of first as it's disappearing rapidly and we want to have that locked down with a permit for building ASAP.

count, the noise restriction is mainly due to the races they have there. This will not be a place for race event or pro races. It will be a place where people can come and learn how to drive in a controlled environment and test out their cars to see what they can really do. A place to open it up a little and not have to drive hours to do it or clear out a whole weekend. Just imagine being able to get off work and letting some steam off on the track any given day of the week.

Bimmerkang, thanks for the heads up. I will definitely look at that as a possible option.

this would be incredible. do any other cities in the US have urban tracks? if so, you should get in contact with their management for advice. I would definitely be a regular patron

Good luck man. I hope it works out for all of us. I always thought it would be cool to have a local small-scale track. Throw in some garages to store peoples' track cars, a restaurant, and maybe some condos and you have yourself a motorsports country club.

anyone seen this??

http://www.unlimitedspeed.net/

Well I'll post my 2 cents, since I am probably one of the few members here that have actually gone to SCCA Events Board meetings in regards to track location, pricing and insurance.

Speaking of which, the first thing you're going to have to provide is 1.5 to 2 MILLION dollar insurance. It's not as easy as it sounds, getting your track insured is VERY expensive and will demand that you have DEEP pockets.

Next is leveling and furnishing. Just for paving a 1000X1400 ft plot, Drift 411 and the NASA was going to have to shell out more than 8 million dollars. No, that's not a typo . . .

So for about 1.5 miles of track, you could look at tripling that price, just for paving the actual track part, that doesn't include concessions, restrooms, buildings and such. Keep in mind that for you to have an actual track, you have to have lighting and running water. These are REQUIRED by federal health and safety standards. You have to be ZONED properly, which means you can't build in a residential area, and you're going to have to shell out the property taxes for this 1.5 mile around track, this is ALSO going to include everything inside of this area.

You're looking, and I'm approximating here, about 100 MILLION just to get your track to the opening day.

-Dave

Wow, now that is cool. Way too rich for my blood though.

I'm not here to shatter dreams, sport. I hope that you can get it going, and I'll never doubt anyone. I wish you nothing but LUCK and PROSPERITY in this venture.

That being said, I am an extreme realist and I realize that it's a lot of money and a lot of work to get it going. The work is usually easy to come by, it's the money that people have a problem with.

As was already mentioned, you're looking at about 300K on up to about 1.5M, depending on location, in TAXES alone. That's ridiculously out of my spending range, HAHAHA!

Your best bet would be to buy a decommissioned airport and start from there. It already has the 200db zoning that you are looking for and it's already paved off, you're best bet then, it just course design and layout.

-Dave

Well I'll post my 2 cents, since I am probably one of the few members here that have actually gone to SCCA Events Board meetings in regards to track location, pricing and insurance.

Speaking of which, the first thing you're going to have to provide is 1.5 to 2 MILLION dollar insurance. It's not as easy as it sounds, getting your track insured is VERY expensive and will demand that you have DEEP pockets.

Next is leveling and furnishing. Just for paving a 1000X1400 ft plot, Drift 411 and the NASA was going to have to shell out more than 8 million dollars. No, that's not a typo . . .

So for about 1.5 miles of track, you could look at tripling that price, just for paving the actual track part, that doesn't include concessions, restrooms, buildings and such. Keep in mind that for you to have an actual track, you have to have lighting and running water. These are REQUIRED by federal health and safety standards. You have to be ZONED properly, which means you can't build in a residential area, and you're going to have to shell out the property taxes for this 1.5 mile around track, this is ALSO going to include everything inside of this area.

You're looking, and I'm approximating here, about 100 MILLION just to get your track to the opening day.

-Dave

Drift 411 is only paying 5$ a sqft? Thats sounds stupid cheap to me.

How wide is a race track, anyone know?

That depends, and it varies from track to track, usually it's wide enough to get 10 cars side by side, but you have some parts that you can barely squeeze a third car in.

Look at the track width differences between VIR and Lime Rock . . .pretty significant. You race on VIR, it's an enjoyable experience, the same with Summit Point. Jump over to LR and it's like, wow, can you please move your miata, LOL!

A track's width isn't consistent is what I'm getting at. Usually the Start/Finish is a nice wide road while certain, more technical turns, prove to be more narrow.

-Dave

Well, I have spoken with a gentleman who was a consultant for buliding Las Vegas and also assisted in the improvements on Infineon. He gave me the numbers for building Vegas in '96 which is on 1100 acres and it cost $72 million for initial startup. They then went in I think 6 years ago and added $130 million in improvements in order to get the big races, but still that's $72 million for what was a great track to begin with. We would need nothing close to 1100 acres. I think you have the idea I'm talking about a Speedway or something. I envision something that will hold about 15-20 cars at a time max unlike many of the places like AMS that can hold anywhere from 50-60 cars. I am also a realist and I know this will be something hard to accomplish here that's why we have also explored options outside the US and in other states as well. It's just that I was the one with the idea and out of respect the other guys would like to see it built here. If it comes to it though I have no problem going elsewhere to see my dream come to fruition. I will update you guys next week though as we have a meeting coming up with some people to explore the idea further.

Bare minimum over $25 million....

Bare minimum over $25 million....

Have you been to TGP? He wouldn't need much more then that. TGP didn't cost near 25 million to get up and running.

He's not asking to start up a new Road Atlanta.

Have you been to TGP? He wouldn't need much more then that. TGP didn't cost near 25 million to get up and running.

He's not asking to start up a new Road Atlanta.

TGP is also in BFE Alabama. I am not sure how much land they have there, but I'm sure it would be pretty easy to figure out.

Bottom line, I just don't see it happening. Anyone who could pull off a project like this wouldn't be on bimmerforums asking how to do it.

/brutal honesty

TGP is also in BFE Alabama. I am not sure how much land they have there, but I'm sure it would be pretty easy to figure out.

Bottom line, I just don't see it happening. Anyone who could pull off a project like this wouldn't be on bimmerforums asking how to do it.

/brutal honesty


Not sure what BFE is.

Land...? South of Newnan, east of Newton or west of Villa Rica and land is pretty inexpensive.

I agree on the last part. Just saying that it doesn't have to cost a fortune to have a short narrow track built.

Not sure what BFE is.

Land...? South of Newnan, east of Newton or west of Villa Rica and land is pretty inexpensive.

I agree on the last part. Just saying that it doesn't have to cost a fortune to have a short narrow track built.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=BFE

West of Villa Rica is not much closer than RA. I have no idea where Newnan is. :rofl

For construction + land costs, I definitely agree that it would not even be close to 25m for a place like TGP.

Bottom line, I just don't see it happening. Anyone who could pull off a project like this wouldn't be on bimmerforums asking how to do it.

/brutal honesty
bingo

/thread.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=BFE

West of Villa Rica is not much closer than RA. I have no idea where Newnan is. :rofl

For construction + land costs, I definitely agree that it would not even be close to 25m for a place like TGP.

No one is building tracks near cities anyways. Citites just wouldn't put up with everything that goes along with it. So the boonies are exactly where a track would need to be built anyways.

TGP is also in BFE Alabama. I am not sure how much land they have there, but I'm sure it would be pretty easy to figure out.

Bottom line, I just don't see it happening. Anyone who could pull off a project like this wouldn't be on bimmerforums asking how to do it.

/brutal honesty

You are correct with your last part. My part of the project is mainly numbers and marketing along with ideas. I'll see if I can get one of the others guys here to actually post up more info. They may actually be able to shine more light on it for you and provide some better logistics info. I guess you can say I'm the networking guy. That's all for me for now though, I'll be sure to update you guys say Tuesday or Wednesday as for as how things are developing.

It is really lame that a track was built and then people willingly MOVE next to it and then complain of noise. Ridiculous.

Build one in downtown Atlanta. :)

Good Luck I hope you come through. And who knows. He could have a lot of investors or people willing to ante up to get unlimited time on track etc.

I will point you in the right direction: Ed Bargy.

Now it's up to you and google. :)

anyone seen this??

http://www.unlimitedspeed.net/



That is a knock off

http://www.autobahncountryclub.net/


The owner of Fall-Line Motorsports was one of the main investors and it was created while I was working at Fall-Line. Good luck getting one of these started up too

Hundreds of Millions.


35,000 dollars initiation and 3,000 dollars a year :) Then there is spots for rent in the garages. Fall-Line has a sister shop at Autobahn. It is a GREAT track(s). Nice when you need to test racecars and you are the prime investor. Get to clear the track off and the techs get to play on the track with personal cars :)

To Jean-Claude . . .there are going to be areas, less populous ones, that are cheaper on the pocket to get things like this started.

But you have to realize that is still not something that can be done for less than 2 million. It's simply the amount of area required, the utilities required and the maintenance and furnishings.

The average Joe all the way up to the rich fanatic would have a tough time opening a track, then if they got it opened, the taxes and upkeep would kill them without a lot of help.

-Dave

If I go to a BMWCCA track day, I'm pretty sure they can pull my car if it's too loud.

The real races are pretty seriously loud, but the weekend warriors aren't exactly quiet.

Yeah there's a decibel limit, as you already know, with races. In the SCCA the limit is usually between 95 and 105 decibels for your vehicle. The 95db limit is usually most often seen as it's used for most rally, solo and drifting events sponsored by the SCCA. The club trials and pro racing events are raised to 105db per vehicle at 100ft from the rear of the car.

That's full throttle.

-Dave

Well as promised guys I'm back with an update. We had two different meetings and both times the track idea was shot down. The city government loved two of the three parts of our proposal, but as you can imagine the third part which included a short track was shot down faster than a C-130 being trailed by a F-22 Raptor. So the idea is not going to happen here locally like I would have hoped, but we are exploring other ideas. Some that have strong potential already as we have been working hard with this is Vancouver, BC and shocking enough is Kent which is right outside of London. A very beautiful area if you have never been before. Inside the US we are also still looking at possible locations.

Just so you guys know part of the reason we wanted it in the city is because it was going to be an extension of a high-end sports car dealership. Not just Porsches and Ferrari, but the potential for cars like Noble and definitely turn key Ultima GTR's for the hardcore enthusiasts. I've got some pictures of the potential Vancouver site that I will have to get off my camera. I can say that I've definitely learned a lot from the two meetings we had and although the final result was negative the knowledge I gained was great. We had some knowledgeable people in development, sound deadening technologies and other fields that helped us greatly. I thank you all for the valuable advice and I hope to run into some of you soon as I'm getting rid of the Audi and I should be hopping into a BMW again pretty soon. I see everyone talks about the Doraville Butler Tire, but any good things about the one in Marietta off Powers Ferry?

So you expected the city of Atlanta to go for a racetrack in town?

If this was going to be somebody's hobby shop that's fine, but I can't see something like this making any money in Atlanta. I would guess that very few of the people buying Lambos and Ferraris here have any intention of tracking them.

What's funny is that, if you owned 5 square acres of land and you paved it over. That's completely legal. If you wanted to drive your car on it all day, you could do that, because it's technically YOUR property, and as long as there's no public access to the road, you're good.

But keep in mind, as discussed before, that money situation is going to be a killer.

-Dave

Matt, the location was never going to be in the city of Atlanta. You never know what people are willing to do with their cars. I know I've seen a good number of Porsches, Ferraris and other exotics at many tracks throughout this entire country. If they want to race them then the facility is available. If they don't then who cares they can still come in and buy a car. What people do with their cars is their business, I just want to provide a safe facility for those who would like to push their cars or their driving abilities a bit.

hunterd557, I really appreciate the advice you gave earlier because that helped a great deal when putting numbers together. The money has become an issue, but not so much that we won't be able to operate.

Like I said it didn't work out here and I can't say I'm happy, but I'm not going to sulk about it either. We're moving on to other places and who knows what will happen. It may not happen, but we gave it a shot and that's all that realy matters to me.

Once again thanks to those who provided assistance and sent me messages with valuable information.

Yeah bro, if you need further help, email me at davidadams84@comcast.net, I'm willing to help as much as possible and I know who to talk to in order to make things happen a little quicker.

It's not going to be cheap, but the road will definitely be easier. You seem quite serious, and if you are, and you're not just some "kid with a pipe-dream" let me know in a serious email proposal, and I'll forward it to the appropriate parties.

Keep in mind that you would have to address the email as if you would want ME to allow you to have the track, because I'm just going to proof read it for grammar and spelling then I'm going to forward it out to whomever is taking bids this week.

-Dave

I see everyone talks about the Doraville Butler Tire, but any good things about the one in Marietta off Powers Ferry?
Never been to the one in Marietta, but the manager who made Doraville the place to go for BF.c GA is now the head honcho at Butler in Alpharetta (http://butlertire.com/contact.asp).

PM or call the one and only BimmerDawg (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/member.php?find=lastposter&t=721239). :buttrock


:cool

Never been to the one in Marietta, but the manager who made Doraville the place to go for BF.c GA is now the head honcho at Butler in Alpharetta (http://butlertire.com/contact.asp).

PM or call the one and only BimmerDawg (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/member.php?find=lastposter&t=721239). :buttrock


:cool

:clap

:smiliecap

Lamar County Raceway? aka Barnesville. Sounds like a track that may meet your needs.

Some people here have a messed up sense of distance :p :) On the weekend, I can get from Road Atlanta (I live 2.5 miles from the gate to the track) to where 75/85 merge in ~30 minutes. Is this too far away to track your cars? Dear God I hope not...

Next, you have Road Atlanta, Barber, Roebling, Phil Hill's new place in Savannah, Talledega, Atlanta Motor Speedway all a few hours drive of Atlanta. In addition to that, I believe that RA is the best track in the SE from what I've seen of all the tracks mentions (ie. it's the closest to a "world class" track). Honestly, I don't think people take advantage of RA enough as it is. If you're looking to start something that costs less to drive there, that's not likely going to happen unless you are in the boonies (like BeaveRun for example).

In the end, good job for taking the initiative to talk with the city about this. You can never get enough great places to drive. Good luck in your next endevour with respect to this.

In addition, I'm doing a feasibility study with some associates and talking with the RA people about some more open track time during the week (when Panoz and such aren't running). Some may have seen my thread last week. As things progress, I'll let more information out and about.

Bottom line, I just don't see it happening. Anyone who could pull off a project like this wouldn't be on bimmerforums asking how to do it.

/brutal honesty

That is the most thoughtless comment I have ever heard? All successful people start with some sort of foundation before they turn dreams into reality.

Ever heard the saying, "Where there is a will, there is a way"

Anything can be tackled by those who are willing to work through all the details.

That is the most thoughtless comment I have ever heard? All successful people start with some sort of foundation before they turn dreams into reality.

Ever heard the saying, "Where there is a will, there is a way"

Anything can be tackled by those who are willing to work through all the details.

werd.

Some people here have a messed up sense of distance :p :) On the weekend, I can get from Road Atlanta (I live 2.5 miles from the gate to the track) to where 75/85 merge in ~30 minutes. Is this too far away to track your cars? Dear God I hope not...

Next, you have Road Atlanta, Barber, Roebling, Phil Hill's new place in Savannah, Talledega, Atlanta Motor Speedway all a few hours drive of Atlanta. In addition to that, I believe that RA is the best track in the SE from what I've seen of all the tracks mentions (ie. it's the closest to a "world class" track). Honestly, I don't think people take advantage of RA enough as it is. If you're looking to start something that costs less to drive there, that's not likely going to happen unless you are in the boonies (like BeaveRun for example).

In the end, good job for taking the initiative to talk with the city about this. You can never get enough great places to drive. Good luck in your next endevour with respect to this.

In addition, I'm doing a feasibility study with some associates and talking with the RA people about some more open track time during the week (when Panoz and such aren't running). Some may have seen my thread last week. As things progress, I'll let more information out and about.

Heard of them all but what is Phil Hill's place in Savannah you speak of? There was like a go cart track or something I drove on while I was at Mercer in a modded A4. That was fun :) The gate was open...

Again, Good Luck to the OP. Too bad. One more close track to Atlanta would have been cool. I can get to RA in about 40 minutes. Not too bad as I only have to make the drive 2 times. Get car there, ride home with fiance. Drive the event and Jenny drives back and forth and then drive car home :)

Heard of them all but what is Phil Hill's place in Savannah you speak of? There was like a go cart track or something I drove on while I was at Mercer in a modded A4. That was fun :) The gate was open...

Again, Good Luck to the OP. Too bad. One more close track to Atlanta would have been cool. I can get to RA in about 40 minutes. Not too bad as I only have to make the drive 2 times. Get car there, ride home with fiance. Drive the event and Jenny drives back and forth and then drive car home :)

You went to Mercer?

This is possible, but it won't be easy. I came close to doing this 7 years ago. We were going to build a 1.25 mile 15 turn 30 foot wide track for karts. We needed @ 15 acres. Pavement was then $14/ sq. yard. No pavement in the pits or paddock. With fencing and land at $5000 an acre we were looking at @ $500,000.
As for location you will need to go out of Atlanta. Try the Fairmount GA area. It's North of town and they were open to ideas about the track back then.

Here's the place in Savannah:

http://www.unlimitedspeed.net/site02.html

Honestly, I'm surprised a smaller city like Savannah can carry one "major" track like Roebling and another major facility like this. I'd be excited to live there though!

At the end of the day you dont spend even 1 million just to have a track for people run their cars on on the weekends.

People are throwing out great numbers and yes you can go from a drag strip to a full out road course and you will still need a minumum of $10 Million Dollars.

once again... $10 Million Dollars. I hate to say it, but you're 22 years old with no professional racing career, no clients, no money...

AND NO INTENTIONS OF ACTUALLY HAVING RACES...

how do you plan on paying back the 10 Million Dollars you borrowed to build the place... Your payment will be almost $200,000 A MONTH interest included.

10 million * 6% = 10,600,000 over 5 years say = 2.12 Million a Year / 12 months = 176,000 / Month


So lets be even more conservative... your track will only have a row of port-a-potties for bathrooms, no concessions, gravel parking if even, and the only thing paved will be the track and staging area. crap pits that will only fit like 10 cars, and lets say you find something thats already paved, old airport runways, or something...

So I will give you a $5 Million Start up cost... so cut the other numbers in half...

Even if you use the loan to pay itself and your bills, you will need at least $90,000 a month just to repay your loan, another $130,000 a year for taxes and insurance, and then your bills... and thats not including lighting for a night track.

there is no way you can make over $200,000 a month charging 25 bucks for a few laps on the weekends. if you kept it mostly private, you would have to charge thousands upon thousands of dollars to race and it would have to be a nice facility. Race Tracks are for Racing....

I am 22 years old, and I had to fight to get $250,000 from the bank. I am still fighting for it. And I am just buying a hair salon that has already been built. And I have staff and clientele built in... I work here, I have management experience, high profile clientele (Jeff Foxworthy), our new city, Johns Creek Mayor's office staff...etc... And I am bringing in a guy who has 5 salon in the atlanta area and does $6 Million dollars a year in sales and services to consult.

And I am still having a hard time getting the money... You need to start doing some real homework. This is not something you can pick up on the forums. You need a lawyer, accountant, a consultant, and a damn good business plan at least 30 pages with cash flow analyses, location analyses, 1, 3, and 5 year goals and estimated spending, marketing analyses, target demographics, i can go on forever...

Thats why most tracks are built with some out-of-pocket investment. You should be able to put up at least 20% of the cash yourself or you wont get a loan.

I think everyone has this dream at least once in their lives... until your a multi-millionare and you can afford to take a huge loss, this is not realistic, and even if your a multimillionare, you will have to host real races to keep the track alive for longer than 9 months...


I would love to see it but in the end even if you do do it here... your going to be just like every other track...

you are going to be out in the sticks... cheap land, noise regulations

you are going to have to build a decent track.... will cost you real money, no bank is going to front a track built on cement you mixed...

and you are going to have to host races ... or you will go bankrupt

The only way to host a track would be to include it with a more profitable business that could eat the operating costs, etc...

Sorry man, but dont feel bad your not the first and you wont be the last. I want to do the same thing.

You know what else i wanted to do which would be alot cheaper... a Drift Playground... try that first.

you dont need perfect pavement and a lot of land... pave a parking lot and use bumper strip to make obstacles for drifing around... your costs will be significantly lower and you can still charge people X dollars for Y runs/minutes/access, etc...

you could do that for under a million... just level, pave, add some design and a halfway smooth parking area and driveways since most of the cars will be slammed, and get some fence, security, and lots and lots of insurance because people will be trying to get into that day and night. hell even put up some lights. you see you will be paying for the land for all 24 hours of every day, you need to be making money for as much of that as possible. the later you can stay open on weekdays, maybe even open later, could be better for most people.

anyway, just my 2 cents...

Wow! You sound like Frank, one of the board commissioners. Long winded, but knowledgeable. Everything you said is absolutely correct. But even a drift playground is going to be expensive. Like I said in an earlier post, just for paving and furnishing a 1000'x1400' lot, the city wanted over 8 million dollars. I was on the chair meeting in a suit trying to seem professional, but when they threw out that figure, I shook my head in disbelief. It didn't even sound like a real number. 8 Million Dollars? They might as well have said 8 billion-skillion, because I would have had the same exact reaction.

Right now we're in your situation, even with the help of the SCCA and NASA, we (Drift 411 and Night Majik Enterprises) are only looking at a spending margin of about $170,000 over profits annual.

I don't know how we're going to open up anything local, because we're only finding property and taxes that allow for those expenditures in Alabama and Tennessee.

-Dave