Hey everyone,

I'm really interested in this 540iA I have found but it's an automatic. I wished it was a 6-speed but it's such a good deal that I don't think I should pass it up.

What I want to know especially from you 540i owners is how much different is the 6-speed from the automatic in performance? The numbers I have researched don't do justice.

Do you think it'll still be as enjoyable even though its an auto? Please don't tell me to wait for a 6-speed, just tell me what you think people.

I need real opinions!!

Thanks in Advance.

I am ready to finish the deal, but how could I without consenting BF members.:D

I am not a HUGE fan of auto trannys but this is such a damn good deal that it would be really stupid to pass it up.

I dont know if this will help any, but I prefer the auto in E39s of both flavors. I am a long time 5-speed driver, but I find the combination of a long clutch throw and somewhat wooden shifter for E39s dont make the manual option as gratifying as it could be. You will certainly miss a little performance, but even an auto 540i gets up and goes.

Hey

I have never driven the 6spd. I do have a 540IA and I love it. I enjoy my car every time I drive it, save when the service engine soon light is on. Just think. You wont have to put your latte or phone down to drive. :)

It's all a matter of personal tastes and comfort. If you are used to driving stick, getting a stick will not bother you. If come from driving an auto you will notice the difference.

The auto is a no brainer, the stick is more fun.

You really need to drive both to make the choice for yourself.

I think the 540 automatic is the most fun automatic car I've ever driven. But that's not saying all that much, since I've mostly only driven 5spds.

As I've said many times before though, if you want it fast and you're willing to get a 6spd you may as well go for the M5.

is the 540IA sport model? beside being an automatic does it have all the other options and color that you are looking?

if you love a clutch then you won't like the auto .. however, automatics are just as fast as the six speed .. you can control the RPM just by down shifting the automatic to a lower gears .. plus the automatics have 3.15 gears ..

btw, is your 525i an auto or five speed?

I am not a HUGE fan of auto trannys but...

Honestly, to me that says it right there. It sounds like you are rationalizing just because it's a good deal. To me a tranny is not something to compromise on, because you have to deal with it everytime you drive the car.

Only you know what you like more, and what you would be happy with. It also depends on your driving habits, style, and location (heavy traffic etc.)

Me personally, I don't think I could ever go with an auto, I've been additcted to manuals all my life, and it will probably stay that way, to me it just makes driving that much more involving and fun. however, I live in a relativly light traffic city, so my views would probably change if I lived in a city with persistant traffic jams.

You need to figure out what you want...why ask people on a forum who won't be driving your car what you should get? This isn't a subjective thing like what rims to get, this is a serious question on how you want your car to drive, and what you want to get out of it.

Honestly, to me that says it right there. It sounds like you are rationalizing just because it's a good deal. To me a tranny is not something to compromise on, because you have to deal with it everytime you drive the car.

Only you know what you like more, and what you would be happy with. It also depends on your driving habits, style, and location (heavy traffic etc.)

Me personally, I don't think I could ever go with an auto, I've been additcted to manuals all my life, and it will probably stay that way, to me it just makes driving that much more involving and fun. however, I live in a relativly light traffic city, so my views would probably change if I lived in a city with persistant traffic jams.

You need to figure out what you want...why ask people on a forum who won't be driving your car what you should get? This isn't a subjective thing like what rims to get, this is a serious question on how you want your car to drive, and what you want to get out of it.
You answered your own question. He asked because he would get excellent input from forum members such as yourself!:thumbup:

I will tell you what you need to hear. You should hold out until you find a six speed.

I think I am getting old, because I actually like the fact that I am finally driving an auto. It is so smoothe and the torque of the V8 only requires a third of the downshifting that lesser cars need.

If you were talking NSX or Porsche, then I would say Manual.

Capn why we gotta be gettin' old, man? :)

I would normally advise you to never compromize. Wait for a 6-spd since that is where you seem to be leaning towards. However one thing that I have observed on here is that some of the fastest E39 540i cars are auto... although with the same mods the 6-spd would be a bit faster I would imagine.

Look at the entire package... does it have all the other options that you want? Does it have the sport package? Tranny is a big thing to compromize on though, if you are a die-hard manual guy.

Let me be the first to ask...how good of a deal is it??

I just bought a 540iA auto for my wife and we both love it (wife also drives manuals but preferred an auto in this car). It's a no brainer just like some others here have said. Just mash on the pedal and this thing really moves.

Don't get me wrong, I love manuals. I've owned manuals all my life. I've owned many cars that it only made sense to get a manual...Porsches, RX-7's, Lotus V8 twins...etc... but this car we really like having the auto to just sit back and drive relaxed and not have to worry about what gear I'm in all the time.

my .02 :)

I'll break down the differences between a 540ia and 540i-6 in a complex analysis here.

540ia= :(

540i-6= :) :redspot :alright :buttrock :D :boobies :3some

The 6-speed clutch is so light, the gearbox (in good repair and perhaps with a short shifter with new bushings) is beautiful, and it's faster than the automatic. And then there's the visceral component/involvement that can't be put down on paper. That said - doesn't matter what I think, you're the one driving the car - but if there is any thought in your mind that you would yearn for a manual, trust your gut and don't buy an automatic. In my opinion with the automatic tranny the 540ia is a decently quick luxury cruiser, the 6-sp turns it into an enthusiast's machine that is fairly rare in it's class (relatively high-powered, v8 luxury sedan with a manual gearbox).

Let me be the first to ask...how good of a deal is it??

I just bought a 540iA auto for my wife and we both love it (wife also drives manuals but preferred an auto in this car). It's a no brainer just like some others here have said. Just mash on the pedal and this thing really moves.

Don't get me wrong, I love manuals. I've owned manuals all my life. I've owned many cars that it only made sense to get a manual...Porsches, RX-7's, Lotus V8 twins...etc... but this car we really like having the auto to just sit back and drive relaxed and not have to worry about what gear I'm in all the time.

my .02 :)
I see it the same way you do. I think the difference in us and the die hard manual guys is that most of them are wanting to multi-task their BMW as a big family car and a little race car instead of buying one of each.

multi-task their BMW as a big family car and a little race car instead of buying one of each.

Exactly. :cool

Munich, btw.. any more pics of your 65' 289 from your avatar?

Well I am saying it's a heck of a deal because my dad's buddy is wants to get rid of his 540i for a C5 corvette and is willing to sell it to me for only 7k !!!:eek:

1997 540i
80k mi
Oxford Green w/ beige interior
not sure of package included

I'm not very fond of the green, but it isn't a horrific color and can be made to look good w/ some work!

And as many of you know, I have been dying for some more power. My lil' 525 is a steptronic so I don't miss out all the action. However, on the other hand my dad's E60 550i/6 is the funnest car I have ever driven. I have had auto's mainly throughout my car history so it's not terrible but I didn't want to miss out on the action of a 6-speed.

I think it's pretty much dead even b/w everyone's replies. Some say auto, and others say 6 speed. Wish I had a step!!:stickoutt

According to most 540iA owners, I guess the auto isn't that bad considering the performance of that engine. As for the features I am looking for---- I'm not really looking for anything in particular because I have many mods planned for this baby after all the money I will be saving.:D

Gonna go test out the car tomorrow so lets see!!

Who knows, maybe after tomorrow I'll be a 540 owner.:D

Oh and to those who asked me about my daily driving--- yes I meet tons of traffic on the way to class so an auto would help there but that is just 1/4 of my driving.

Besides that the roads are always open wherever I drive.

It's a tough decision, but as speedemm said "some of the fastest E39 540i cars are auto" like jimmy's so I'm guessing they can't really feel that much slower than the manual. And many of you have back'd that up so I'm feeling more confident about it.

Exactly. :cool

Munich, btw.. any more pics of your 65' 289 from your avatar?

Speaking of 289, my buddy and I just picked up a Delta 88 w/ a 425 big block engine!!:eek: Gonna drop it into a 1970 charger soon. Gonna be beast !!:cool

Oh and to those who asked me about my daily driving--- yes I meet tons of traffic on the way to class so an auto would help there but that is just 1/4 of my driving.

Besides that the roads are always open wherever I drive.

It's a tough decision, but as speedemm said "some of the fastest E39 540i cars are auto" like jimmy's so I'm guessing they can't really feel that much slower than the manual. And many of you have back'd that up so I'm feeling more confident about it.

well, a supercharged 6-sp 540i is still going to be faster than jimmy's, so I'd compare apples to apples here (not a supercharged 540ia and a stock 540i-6). Plus without upgrading the slushbox to manage that kind of increase in power, you're going to blow it eventually (verified by factory power ratings) - they're not rated to handle it - whereas the 6-sp manual getrag tranny in the 540i is shared by the M5, so is built right out of the box to handle that kind of power. Also - generally automatic trannies on the 540i (and 528i) tend to blow around 80-120k miles.

And... it sounds like you and I both are not a big fan of that color. At the same time - $7k for a 540i with around 80k miles on it is a great deal... even for all my critiquing I agree that's a difficult decision... before you buy anything though do yourself a favor and test drive a 6-sp too.

Basically self explanatory...

everyone will agree that with a decent driver the 6spd will walk away from the automatic.

Can someone confirm the sport automatic comes with a better ratio thus leading me to believe the sport automatic can stand a chance against a 6spd?

well, a supercharged 6-sp 540i is still going to be faster than jimmy's, so I'd compare apples to apples here (not a supercharged 540ia and a stock 540i-6). Plus without upgrading the slushbox to manage that kind of increase in power, you're going to blow it eventually (verified by factory power ratings) - they're not rated to handle it - whereas the 6-sp manual getrag tranny in the 540i is shared by the M5, so is built right out of the box to handle that kind of power. Also - generally automatic trannies on the 540i (and 528i) tend to blow around 80-120k miles.

And... it sounds like you and I both are not a big fan of that color. At the same time - $7k for a 540i with around 80k miles on it is a great deal... even for all my critiquing I agree that's a difficult decision... before you buy anything though do yourself a favor and test drive a 6-sp too.

Thanks supark. You gave me new insight to look into. I know an auto will never match up w/ a 6-speed with the same mods but I don't think that is my main concern. I just want it to be a sexy, fast beast that can take anything given to her.

I think I would test a 540i/6 but most of them are out of my range.:(

Basically self explanatory...

everyone will agree that with a decent driver the 6spd will walk away from the automatic.



Agreed.

In the end, a 540 is a 540.

So down the road, supposing my 540iA is modded and I meet an almost bone-to-stock 540/6, and of course beat his ass, he won't ever know I had an auto.:stickoutt

Hey

I have never driven the 6spd. I do have a 540IA and I love it. I enjoy my car every time I drive it, save when the service engine soon light is on. Just think. You wont have to put your latte or phone down to drive. :)

That is a good thought.:D

When shopping for a 540 the tranny was the only thing I wasent willing to compromise on...


There are a lot of really good deals to be had on auto 540's that are much newer then then one your looking at with a lot less miles.. If your going to go auto id say look for an 01 plus 540 and you can probably pick up a pretty good deal..

For me I still wanted the 6sp and searched all over for one with the stuff I wanted on it...

Any way good luck

How much difference b/w 540iA and 540i/6??

The same difference between Earth and Mars, one is full of life, the other dead as a doorknob.

In all honesty though first, does it have sport package? If so, then it may not be too bad, depends on how much you like stick. I could never do it and after driving both, the stick is a totally different driving experiance and worth the wait for me. Do yourself a favor and, if you are actually asking yourself this question, then wait, you will never regret it, but you may regret the auto, no matter how good the deal is.

buy the auto for 7k, then sell it for 12k and buy a 6-speed!!!:D :D

is the 540IA sport model? beside being an automatic does it have all the other options and color that you are looking?

if you love a clutch then you won't like the auto .. however, automatics are just as fast as the six speed .. you can control the RPM just by down shifting the automatic to a lower gears .. plus the automatics have 3.15 gears ..

btw, is your 525i an auto or five speed?
Not all 540i sport autos have the 3.15. Every source that I've checked says that the 3.15 started with the 1999 model year 540iA Sport. 1997 and 1998 540iA Sport still had the 2.81.

There is no difference in overall power or speed. Any difference in quickness or acceleration is negligible. Instead, it's widely accepted that the pre-vanos 1997 and 1998 are a bit faster in the quarter no matter the transmission.

1997 BMW 540i 6.2 14.6
1998 BMW 540i Sport 5.5 14.0
2001 BMW 540i (Automatic) 5.7 14.3
2001 BMW 540i 6-Speed 5.5 14.0
http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html

There is no difference in overall power or speed. Any difference in quickness or acceleration is negligible. Instead, it's widely accepted that the pre-vanos 1997 and 1998 are a bit faster in the quarter no matter the transmission.

1997 BMW 540i 6.2 14.6
1998 BMW 540i Sport 5.5 14.0
2001 BMW 540i (Automatic) 5.7 14.3
2001 BMW 540i 6-Speed 5.5 14.0
http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html

That's an exxageration - from what I recall automatics tend to run a little under a second slower in the quarter mile compared to the 6-sp, which is a pretty significant difference. You have anywhere from 5-10% more drivetrain loss in the automatic versus the manual gearbox, on top of the fact that the automatic is slightly heavier. As for those albeedigital 0-60 and quarter mile times I wouldn't hold too much weight in those. Also as for this "wide acceptance" of pre-vanos cars having more power - I still haven't seen any significant data proving this - especially considering the fact that the hp/tq differences that have been seen are within variances attributed to a difference in dyno type. I also haven't seen any evidence that the pre-vanos cars are any faster in the typical performance measures.

the automatic has a lower fuel consumption, from the net...
manual - 15.3mpg(city) / 24.8mpg(hwy)
automatic - 18.0mpg(city)/26.1mpg(hwy)

Since you are looking at a 1997 540i, there is a very good chance that it has the 5HP30 transmission, instead of the later 5HP24 that showed up on the cars built after Jan 1997. The difference is that the 5HP30 is good for 560 N/meters of torque and the later more common transmission is good for only 440 N/m's.

The 5HP30 is the transmission used in the E38 750 and late model E31 850 V12 cars. It is heavier than the 5HP24 that is used in all other E39 V8 cars, but can stand a LOT more engine mods before it gets strained. If you are looking to mod this car, this would be a really good thing.

By the way, $7000 is a very good price for that car, regardless of options.

When shopping for a 540 the tranny was the only thing I wasent willing to compromise on...


There are a lot of really good deals to be had on auto 540's that are much newer then then one your looking at with a lot less miles.. If your going to go auto id say look for an 01 plus 540 and you can probably pick up a pretty good deal..

For me I still wanted the 6sp and searched all over for one with the stuff I wanted on it...

Any way good luck

I really haven't seen that many great deals better than this one and if there are, I most likely cannot afford it.:(

I'm 18 and a student and also work part-time you can say so budget ain't that high. My 01' 525 is paid off and I have just enough for this car and maybe some future repairs.

I haven't seen any low mileage 6-speed 540's w/ under 81k for 7 grand tho man. If you know of any, let me know !!

The same difference between Earth and Mars, one is full of life, the other dead as a doorknob.

In all honesty though first, does it have sport package? If so, then it may not be too bad, depends on how much you like stick. I could never do it and after driving both, the stick is a totally different driving experiance and worth the wait for me. Do yourself a favor and, if you are actually asking yourself this question, then wait, you will never regret it, but you may regret the auto, no matter how good the deal is.

Earth and Mars??:( Maybe there is a hope for water on Mars though right?

I think it has some sort of cold winter package(?) because of the fold down seats. Hell, I am not sure but what does the sport package have that makes such a difference? I am seriously not sure. Springs?


buy the auto for 7k, then sell it for 12k and buy a 6-speed!!!:D :D

Good ideaaaaaa! Haha lets see!:D

There is no difference in overall power or speed. Any difference in quickness or acceleration is negligible. Instead, it's widely accepted that the pre-vanos 1997 and 1998 are a bit faster in the quarter no matter the transmission.

1997 BMW 540i 6.2 14.6
1998 BMW 540i Sport 5.5 14.0
2001 BMW 540i (Automatic) 5.7 14.3
2001 BMW 540i 6-Speed 5.5 14.0
http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html

I hope its a sport but even if it isn't I have many mods planned for this car from all the money I'll be saving and even the money once/maybe I sell my 525i.

the automatic has a lower fuel consumption, from the net...
manual - 15.3mpg(city) / 24.8mpg(hwy)
automatic - 18.0mpg(city)/26.1mpg(hwy)

Haha that's just cool man. Gas is a b*tch nowadays.:(

Since you are looking at a 1997 540i, there is a very good chance that it has the 5HP30 transmission, instead of the later 5HP24 that showed up on the cars built after Jan 1997. The difference is that the 5HP30 is good for 560 N/meters of torque and the later more common transmission is good for only 440 N/m's.

The 5HP30 is the transmission used in the E38 750 and late model E31 850 V12 cars. It is heavier than the 5HP24 that is used in all other E39 V8 cars, but can stand a LOT more engine mods before it gets strained. If you are looking to mod this car, this would be a really good thing.

By the way, $7000 is a very good price for that car, regardless of options.

Woahhhh I never knew that. Yes, I have many mods planned so it should be good and meet w/ a stock or slightly less modded 6 speed!! Hopefully that is.

7k sounded like such an amazing deal to me that I couldn't believe it. And that too w/ very low miles for that car. As you said it's a great price "regardless of options.":D

Couldn't check it out today, gonna go test it tommorrow and maybe bring it home!!

Wish me luck!

Earth and Mars??:( Maybe there is a hope for water on Mars though right?

I think it has some sort of cold winter package(?) because of the fold down seats. Hell, I am not sure but what does the sport package have that makes such a difference? I am seriously not sure. Springs?




Good ideaaaaaa! Haha lets see!:D

Sport package has lower suspension (springs, etc..) and handles much better (stiffer ride aside) than the regular. However, I will say that the sport seats are not nearly as comfortable in long drives. I drove a friend's 528iA with the sport package and it cornered like it was on rails. The ride is not too harsh IMHO but that is very subjective (I have a 540i sport so I am biased). In short, drive them all for yourself and choose based on what is important to you. I have another friend with the E60 525 with a 5 speed and he says it has plenty of power. While it is not a 540 it still is fun to drive. Soooo... "Better" is in the eye of the beholder...

buy the auto for 7k, then sell it for 12k and buy a 6-speed!!!:D :D
see i like the way he thinks!!

post a few pics of the car if it's not too much to ask. How is the car mechanicly? and the condition of the interior? are you comfortable with the fuel consumption?

Hey

I have never driven the 6spd. I do have a 540IA and I love it. I enjoy my car every time I drive it, save when the service engine soon light is on. Just think. You wont have to put your latte or phone down to drive. :)

ditto...but again its a matter of personal preference....

if you are getting a good deal get it...worse case scenario if u are unhappy with it u can sell it and find a 6 speed...

either way u WON'T be disappointed..

doesn't the sport package also add the step tronic?

doesn't the sport package also add the step tronic?

i thought after a certain model yr 01 maybe all the autos were step...

i think the step autos would be alot more fun than the regular autos.

Since you are looking at a 1997 540i, there is a very good chance that it has the 5HP30 transmission, instead of the later 5HP24 that showed up on the cars built after Jan 1997. The difference is that the 5HP30 is good for 560 N/meters of torque and the later more common transmission is good for only 440 N/m's.

The 5HP30 is the transmission used in the E38 750 and late model E31 850 V12 cars. It is heavier than the 5HP24 that is used in all other E39 V8 cars, but can stand a LOT more engine mods before it gets strained. If you are looking to mod this car, this would be a really good thing.

By the way, $7000 is a very good price for that car, regardless of options.


agree, that is the tranny in mine, holds more fluid also...

post a few pics of the car if it's not too much to ask. How is the car mechanicly? and the condition of the interior? are you comfortable with the fuel consumption?

Actually I can't because he hasn't put it on any adds. This guy is my dad's friend who is selling his 540 to get a C5 corvette. My dad and him are really close and that is why he supposedly giving it for so cheap?

ditto...but again its a matter of personal preference....

if you are getting a good deal get it...worse case scenario if u are unhappy with it u can sell it and find a 6 speed...

either way u WON'T be disappointed..

Exactly! I figure I'm getting a steal anyways so I could sell it in the future if I crave the need for a 6-speed!

Win-Win situation for me I believe.:D

i thought after a certain model yr 01 maybe all the autos were step...

i think the step autos would be alot more fun than the regular autos.

Steptronics are alot more fun than regular auto's. I have one on my 01' 525i and it makes a big difference in driving than the reg. autos.

There is no difference in overall power or speed. Any difference in quickness or acceleration is negligible. Instead, it's widely accepted that the pre-vanos 1997 and 1998 are a bit faster in the quarter no matter the transmission.

1997 BMW 540i 6.2 14.6
1998 BMW 540i Sport 5.5 14.0
2001 BMW 540i (Automatic) 5.7 14.3
2001 BMW 540i 6-Speed 5.5 14.0
http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html

According to the numbers that you posted above, it appears that the pre-vanos is on par with the vanos for the 6-spd models... and the pre-vanos auto is actually slower than the vanos auto... am I missing something here since the numbers that you posted contradict what you said above? :confused

Not all 540i sport autos have the 3.15. Every source that I've checked says that the 3.15 started with the 1999 model year 540iA Sport. 1997 and 1998 540iA Sport still had the 2.81.

where is the source? that sucks if 97 and 98 auto sport came only with 2.81? how can I confirm this information ..

..........What I want to know especially from you 540i owners is how much different is the 6-speed from the automatic in performance? The numbers I have researched don't do justice.

Do you think it'll still be as enjoyable even though its an auto? Please don't tell me to wait for a 6-speed, just tell me what you think people.

I need real opinions!!

Thanks in Advance.

A 5er with an automatic is not for driving enthusiasts...it's just that simple. You will not find one on a road race track. The BMW 6 speed has wonderful ratios and it's fun to drive on the street or track. The same manual tranny is mandatory on M5 for good reason. My 540i is a great driver's sedan and it hangs with serious hardware on road racing tracks. With an auto, forget it.

In my opinion, compromises should be made in color, year or creature options like radio or NAV, but not transmission or engine. The drivetrain and powertrain are the core of the car. I've watched other folks compromise on tranny and regret it.

where is the source? that sucks if 97 and 98 auto sport came only with 2.81? how can I confirm this information ..

No source for this, but I believe I recall all the early cars('97-'98?) came with the 2.81 diff, then the sport package autos in the later years came with a 3.15 while 2.81 remained the default ratio for non-sport cars.

A 5er with an automatic is not for driving enthusiasts...it's just that simple. You will not find one on a road race track. The BMW 6 speed has wonderful ratios and it's fun to drive on the street or track. The same manual tranny is mandatory on M5 for good reason. My 540i is a great driver's sedan and it hangs with serious hardware on road racing tracks. With an auto, forget it.

In my opinion, compromises should be made in color, year or creature options like radio or NAV, but not transmission or engine. The drivetrain and powertrain are the core of the car. I've watched other folks compromise on tranny and regret it.

I agree w/ you. You won't find any track cars to be an auto w/ maybe the exception of Jimmy's and a few.

I do plan to do mods to the car to maybe give it a much needed boost to compromise for the auto tranny. I know that by doing that it won't give me the performance a 6speed will but it will help.

I also thought, I could maybe buy this, and re-sell it for way more.:D I'm pretty sure it would go for more than 12k!

A lot of people would say a non-M5 E39 is a not for driving enthusiasts. I wouldnt worry about the track unless you forsee it as a necessity........E39's are barges, plain and simple.

I also thought, I could maybe buy this, and re-sell it for way more.:D I'm pretty sure it would go for more than 12k!
That's a good plan, but just don't expect >12k. More than the $7k purchase price, yes. But, $12k or more? Highly doubtful, IMO. A green, '97 auto with 80k miles that may or may not have many options isn't exactly a hot commodity.

No source for this, but I believe I recall all the early cars('97-'98?) came with the 2.81 diff, then the sport package autos in the later years came with a 3.15 while 2.81 remained the default ratio for non-sport cars.

Nope, all the 540i/6 cars are 2.81... the autos are 3.15

No source for this, but I believe I recall all the early cars('97-'98?) came with the 2.81 diff, then the sport package autos in the later years came with a 3.15 while 2.81 remained the default ratio for non-sport cars.

I meant automatics, not automobiles.

where is the source? that sucks if 97 and 98 auto sport came only with 2.81? how can I confirm this information ..
Not a confirmation but check the part that's titled, "Optional Sports Package"

What's new for 1999 (as of 9/98 production):

buy the auto for 7k, then sell it for 12k and buy a 6-speed!!!:D :D


^^^+1 :thumbup:

Sweet ego boosting review of the 540:(
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=44353

Sweet ego boosting review of the 540:(
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=44353

the clutch slippage in 1st and 2nd that they described in the article I'm betting is from the CDV

the clutch slippage in 1st and 2nd that they described in the article I'm betting is from the CDV

Agreed... considering that they were test driving a relatively new, if not brand new 540i/6.

Another thought that came to mind as I was driving in to work this morning is that the 540i auto having the 3.15 diff. vs the 540i/6 having the 2.81 - basically the 10-15% driveline loss that the auto would experience (because of being an auto) would effectively be negated with the 12% improvement from having the better (performing) ratio differential. It will not show up in dyno numbers but in terms of real world difference it will show.

Agreed... considering that they were test driving a relatively new, if not brand new 540i/6.

Another thought that came to mind as I was driving in to work this morning is that the 540i auto having the 3.15 diff. vs the 540i/6 having the 2.81 - basically the 10-15% driveline loss that the auto would experience (because of being an auto) would effectively be negated with the 12% improvement from having the better (performing) ratio differential. It will not show up in dyno numbers but in terms of real world difference it will show.

10-15%:confused The test vehicle is a 1998 540iA Sport which has the 2.81 gear ratio not 3.15.
The 540i/6 is a big, heavy luxurious 4 door sedan...it's a luxobarge, a good handling one, but a luxobarge nonetheless. Most would not make the mistake of making these racers with any seriousness so in real world applications, any difference in performance between the transmissions would be nil, with the auto having lots of convenience, "acceptance" advantages over the 6 slip-speed, as pointed out in the article. Though, when it fails, will likely be a lot more painful to repair than the 6 slip-speed.

10-15%:confused
Yeah driveline loss in an any auto is typically 10%-15% more than a manual transmission... crank hp to wheel hp.

The test vehicle is a 1998 540iA Sport which has the 2.81 gear ratio not 3.15.
Nope...

stock 540i6 diff 1.5k 2.81
stock 540iA diff 1.5k 3.15
stock M5 diff 2.5k 3.15

Source: realoem.com

EDIT: Upon further research on various forum threads it appears that there is some ambiguity behind this... looks like maybe the 99+ 540iA Sport models might have got the 3.15

Agreed... considering that they were test driving a relatively new, if not brand new 540i/6.

Another thought that came to mind as I was driving in to work this morning is that the 540i auto having the 3.15 diff. vs the 540i/6 having the 2.81 - basically the 10-15% driveline loss that the auto would experience (because of being an auto) would effectively be negated with the 12% improvement from having the better (performing) ratio differential. It will not show up in dyno numbers but in terms of real world difference it will show.

The two transmissions have completely different gearing. You cant compare the diff ratios without considering the tranny ratios in addition.

The two transmissions have completely different gearing. You cant compare the diff ratios without considering the tranny ratios in addition.

exactly.

and not only that, even if they did have the same tranny ratio's, just swapping out to a lower geared diff, doesn't magically make the car 15% faster just because it's multiplying the torque by that much more, because you can't forget that you will ultimatly spend less time in each gear, therefore your 'gained' torque increase will be somewhat negated by the fact that you have to switch to a higher trans gear 'that much' sooner, thus reducing your applied torque to the wheels.

If it were that easy everyone would be putting 20:1 final drive ratios in their cars:D

exactly.
True, I stand corrected... I forgot to account for the stock 540iA ratios within each gear.

and not only that, even if they did have the same tranny ratio's, just swapping out to a lower geared diff, doesn't magically make the car 15% faster just because it's multiplying the torque by that much more, because you can't forget that you will ultimatly spend less time in each gear, therefore your 'gained' torque increase will be somewhat negated by the fact that you have to switch to a higher trans gear 'that much' sooner, thus reducing your applied torque to the wheels.

Re-read my original post... I did not say anything about the car magically becoming 15% faster (and incidentally I said 12%). The power as seen on the dyno will still be less in an auto vs the 6-spd... but spending less time in each gear "effectively" gives the car that performance boost. Why else would everyone with a 540i/6 on this forum say that the differential mod is the best bang-for-the-buck mod for the 540i/6?! haha

If it were that easy everyone would be putting 20:1 final drive ratios in their cars:D

... that would be because it would suck to be doing 6000RPM in 6th at 20mph! haha

Re-read my original post... I did not say anything about the car magically becoming 15% faster (and incidentally I said 12%). The power as seen on the dyno will still be less in an auto vs the 6-spd... but spending less time in each gear "effectively" gives the car that performance boost. Why else would everyone with a 540i/6 on this forum say that the differential mod is the best bang-for-the-buck mod for the 540i/6?! haha


Spending less time in a gear only means that you have to switch to a higher gear sooner, and as soon as you do that you lower your torque output, meanwhile the guy with the longer final drive ratio is still in that lower gear for 'X' amount of time longer producing 'X' amount more torque for that given period of time. I've got a nice graph somewhere that shows time/accel vs torque output and that graph has two identical cars with two different final drives, I'll try and dig it up.

I've done several diff swaps, and the gains are not as huge as you would think without raising the rev limit...It 'feels' like it gets much quicker, but how many people that did the diff swap actually took before and after 0-60 and 1/4 mile times? I've done it with other cars and the results generally wern't as good as the "butt dyno" thought they were. There are gains to be had, but it's tricky getting the gearing just right.

Here's an update on situation folks.

This guy, also my dad's "friend", tells me he will sell me the car for 7K. He then asked me for a 500 deposit so that he knows I'm serious about the buy. I find that a little ackward being that he is my dad's "friend", but I send the check. He also said he wouldn't cash it and keep it as safety.

Ever since I have sent it he hasn't replied to any of my calls or ever called me. By chance, I used my buddy's phone and he picked up and promised to call me the next morning but never did.

THEN! I find out he cashed the check. And now he won't pick up his phone from wherever I call. My dad said he knew the guy, but wasn't real close friends with him.:mad

Someone PLEASE tell me what to do !!

Usually deals like that are too good to be true. That royally sucks man.

Sounds like the only thing left is to take him to court and get your $500 back. Or the most gratifying soloution would be to get some boys together and 'pay him a visit':devillook

Haha.

Paying a visit would be so much easier than going to court only to find out he doesn't show up.:D

Should I wait a day or two ?

I wouldn't wait one minute. If he said he wasn't going to cash the cheque and then he did, I would be right there.

Good luck man

Dude, I would be holding your dad responsible (as much as the accountability is yours). :D Good luck with it though... maybe the seller is having cold feet?

only read the first page... but...

i would buy the auto.

i would drive it for a year.

i would sell it for more $$ than i paid for it, and use the cash to get a 98 540i/6 :D

edit: read the above posts. that sucks!!! sorry to hear... :(

I wouldn't wait one minute. If he said he wasn't going to cash the cheque and then he did, I would be right there.

Good luck man

Hmmm I'm leaning towards taking some action but I don't wanna find out he had some major accident or something being he is freaking old, well 50ish, and I caused him some more pain.

I'll try in the morning though for the last time maybe.

Thanks!

Dude, I would be holding your dad responsible (as much as the accountability is yours). :D Good luck with it though... maybe the seller is having cold feet?

Haha yeah but my dad would go nuts on me and probably stop paying for my insurance then(He promised to pay insurance:D).

I just hope he is having cold feet and didn't turn out to run w/ my hard earned freakin money!!

only read the first page... but...

i would buy the auto.

i would drive it for a year.

i would sell it for more $$ than i paid for it, and use the cash to get a 98 540i/6 :D

edit: read the above posts. that sucks!!! sorry to hear... :(

I initially planned to do that if I wasn't satisfied w/ the auto, but I iono what the hell is gonna happen now.

Just hopin for the best at the moment.:(

Here's an update on situation folks.

This guy, also my dad's "friend", tells me he will sell me the car for 7K. He then asked me for a 500 deposit so that he knows I'm serious about the buy. I find that a little ackward being that he is my dad's "friend", but I send the check. He also said he wouldn't cash it and keep it as safety.

Ever since I have sent it he hasn't replied to any of my calls or ever called me. By chance, I used my buddy's phone and he picked up and promised to call me the next morning but never did.

THEN! I find out he cashed the check. And now he won't pick up his phone from wherever I call. My dad said he knew the guy, but wasn't real close friends with him.:mad

Someone PLEASE tell me what to do !!

Lame dude, unfortunately legally unless you guys had signed off on something to prove that the $500 was being put down as a deposit, you're fuct if this guy ends up being a douche scammer...

I never put deposits down on a car - weakens your bargaining position because it shows you're too eager for the car, and then there's this nightmare - I wish you luck and hope that this guy just happens to be too busy to return calls...

A lot of people would say a non-M5 E39 is a not for driving enthusiasts. I wouldnt worry about the track unless you forsee it as a necessity........E39's are barges, plain and simple.

It really depends upon your point of reference. My 540i/6 actually weighs less than a Supra Turbo & same as Mustang Shelby. Both of those cars are very popular for track. Not everyone wants to run a Civic or Elise on the track. I could probably survive a barrel roll in the beastly 5er chassis & I like that for non-competitive track use.

The 540i/6 is just as capable on-track as an M5, except for it's acceleration....540 forward thrust more closely mimics the track favorite E36 M3 (14.0@102MPH). The 540i sport suspension is almost identical to M5 & later cars even share springs. The bigger M5 brakes hardly compensate for the extra 250# they weigh.

I agree w/ you. You won't find any track cars to be an auto w/ maybe the exception of Jimmy's and a few...........

Jimmy drag races a BMW in a striaght line for 1/4 mi. That's a serious misapplication of hardware & he's going slower than a $10K built solid axle Mustang for 5x cost. I see old Mustang Fox running 9's on $10K TOTAL investment. I would never subject BMW's lightweight, intricate aluminum suspension and subframes to that duty and it's silly.

I was talking about road racing tracks and severe duty handling street use, where a strongly built automatic tranny is not competitive and a stock auto tranny will fail quickly. The 540i/6 runs nicely against stockish E30 and E36 M3 for 30 minute sessions on a road racing track. It's a little down on power against E46 M3, but it's a lot cheaper. My stock 540i/6 hangs nicely with stock Ford GT and pre-'03 Cobra without blower. They cost about the same used and my car is a lot more comfortable.

It really depends upon your point of reference.


Agree, and that's just what I was trying to say. Im sure there are many who consider themselves enthuiasts who get a great kick out of their auto 540i (albeit not tracking it, most likely) and there are many other enthusiasts who consider any E39 to be a bloated luxury sedan. "Enthusiast's car" is a very subjective term.

"Enthusiast's car" is a very subjective term.

That is very true...For myself, I call whatever I happen to be driving an Enthusiast car, mainly because I am an enthusiast and thus anything I drive would have to be an enthusiast car right?:wavey

I too wanted the manual but I got mine in an auto because it was the best deal around and was the cleanest car I found in my long hunt. I drove the manual and it was like driving a manual boat. I couldn't toss it around like I could my 3, so I said what the heck, I won't be racing this thing so I'll get a manual if I get another coupe.