Hey all,

I've come across a 5-spd 1988 535is for sale locally with a little over 300k on it. It's been owned by the same family since 1994, and female driven since then (I don't consider that a negative or positive, but they mentioned it, so what the heck :))

Appears to have been pretty well maintained. The paint is faded and the driver's side leather seems to be torn up; not bad. Otherwise it's had all regular maintenance and apparently a very thick maintenance history. The price is right (I don't want to mention it, yet).

Top-end rebuild was done 3 years ago, 10000 miles. Seller says it was not because anything broke, but simply because it was getting "about time". This seems a little funky, but ok.

Anyway, I know a little more than that about it, but had some questions before I pursued any further. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

- Reliability: These things sound like a tank, from what I've read. What should I look for when looking at it? How are the transmissions and clutches?

- is badging: I've been looking into e30s, and know a little bit about their "is" package. Does the 535is have revised suspension/wheels/seats? What's included in this package?

- Performance: What is the ~ weight of these cars? Any and all subjective information is appreciated. For 3.5 liters, it looks like they have modest top-end output. How is the partial-throttle and under-the-curve acceleration? Does the handling/steering/suspension contain the classic "BMW Feel"; or is it more damped because of the extra weight and specific tuning to the 5-series?

That's all for now. Thank you all in advance for your feedback, thoughts, and suggestions.

Regards,

Joe

I can speak to them being reliable, but they do take some care, mostly regular bushing replacements in the suspension, usually ever 40-50K miles it will need a little something in that department...

the 'is' package includes revised shock rates IIRC, but the originals are long gone by now. it also included some exterior bits and pieces as well as the sport seats. other than that, the IS was not a mechanically a lot different than the normal 535. BUT, they are usually more desirable if all the IS stuff is there and in good shape.

part-throttle and under-the-curve is where the M30 really shines anyway, they are torquey buggers and will really scoot around town.

the E28 FEELS like a BMW, no question. the weight on that car should not exceet 3200 or 3300lbs. my 83 533i tipped the scales at a svelte 2977 BEFORE I removed the AC and about 40lbs of exhaust...

mine wasn't the best E28 ever to roam the streets, but it had no beef with hitting tripple digits, and while I never got it past 132mph, at that point it still had some 'go' left in it... I would think that 140-143 would be an expected terminal velocity.

DO IT!

Hi Dark,

Thanks for the great feedback. Right now, I'm scheduling to look at it around 7pm tonight EST, so we'll see what happens.

Sounds like I'll be very happy with the part throttle acceleration. 3200 pounds, eh? Sounds like it needs a 300 pound diet :)

For the condition I described, would you proscribe a price range?

I'm not all about going fast, but I like solid acceleration and good handling. Since just about anything can be made to handle well enough for street use, my main concern is with acceleration. Any easy and cheap ways to increase the output or powerband? (software/bottlenecks)

Does 300k turn you off at all? Any specific things I should be looking for...

Joe

The mileage is pretty much a non-issue. If it runs well then it will continue to run well with proper maintenance.
Faded paint, some-what torn interior, 300K miles... sounds like sub $2K. But that also depends on what the records/receipts say.

Unless the motor has been totally rebuilt, I would not even consider a car with 300k miles. While most e28 guys will disagree with me, I see mileage a huge factor in my pursuit of autos. I bought my e28 with 57,000 original miles. I would never buy a BMW or any car for that matter with more than 100k miles.

I do not care what needs to be done to it or what has been done to it. Doing the work on these cars and doing it right is also a major factor. 300k turns me off... I would look else where unless she is cherry and I'm talking cherry. 2k for a car with 300k is just stupid... $1,000 or less. period.

edit: there are very few people around who will rebuild the top end of a motor just because "it is time." That is serious money just to throw around. I would even venture to say the cost of the motor work superseded the value of the car. Check for rust. In the spare tire tub, wheel wells, rockers, lower doors. Check for window leaks, sun roof leaks, is the car registered? will it pass inspection? how long are you willing to keep the car? How much money do you see yourself spending on it? All avenues to be considered.
__________________

^^ All good points.

I would personally stay away. You are looking at replacement of major parts such as the catalytic converter, exhaust, electronic parts, etc. Not to mention the fact that being a Pennsylvania car and all that (or so your profile indicates), I am willing to bet it has some rust on it, especially with that many miles. :)

Let us know how it goes, though.

I'd offer about $1,500 max for that.

300k turns me off.

These cars are great because they last that long. My old '87 535is went to 275,000 before I sold it. However, past this point in its life, its not gonna be pretty. Expect a lot of parts that need replacement.

The real reason I would never buy a car like this is because of price. How much is this one?
For $3000 or a little more you can get a sub-150k car. Twice the milegage should not be half the price either. Unless the car drives great, and has had a ton or work recently (bushings, water pump) I wouldn't pay more than $500.

Straight truth- This car is probably at the end of its life. It could last forever, but it would be expensive, very very expensive.

dude i just bought a 88 535is with over 250K(my 3rd BMW with a M30) on the clock and it feels just as good if not better as the one i sold recently with under 150K on the clock! so don't be afraid of these BMW's (pre 88) with higher miles, especially if they come with receipts and a solid maintenance history....... again these cars are tanks and mileage is pretty much a non issue especially if it has been maintained correctly.
but remember these cars are pushing twenty years and you will need to start freshening up parts here and there but if you're willing to turn your own wrenches it again will be a non issue.:D

dude i just bought a 88 535is with over 250K(my 3rd BMW with a M30) on the clock and it feels just as good if not better as the one i sold recently with under 150K on the clock! so don't be afraid of these BMW's (pre 88) with higher miles, especially if they come with receipts and a solid maintenance history....... again these cars are tanks and mileage is pretty much a non issue especially if it has been maintained correctly.
but remember these cars are pushing twenty years and you will need to start freshening up parts here and there but if you're willing to turn your own wrenches it again will be a non issue.:D

I agree that no one should be afraid of a higher mileage BMW. Its also important with these that you can do atleast basic work yourself, and its pretty easy on these chasis.

However, why get one with 300k when its not that much cheaper than one with 200k. Even a well maintained car may still have a 300k diff or rear subframe. Why not get a car with less miles?? Past a certain point you will find the problems will grow exponentially.

on a side note, maintence of this car would be crucial to my deciesion. I would rather have a car with 300k that has been mantained above and beyond the BMW suggestions and babied its whole life, than a ragged and rundown 100k car that get new coolant only when the old stuff spills or drips all the way out.

Exactly it's not the mileage that's important, but how it was maintained.

Just to give you an idea, I am looking at a 1986 535i with refreshed front end work a year or so ago, new catalytic converter, nice interior (a couple dash cracks, though) for $2,500 OBO. 140k on the clock. Is this a good deal? I bet the OP's seller is not asking much less than this, and with 300k, it's a no-brainer: find a car whose price is a LITTLE higher, but which will give you far less problems because of its lower mileage!

I'm local to the OP and I know what car and ad he's referring to. Haven't seen the car in person though.

Some thoughts:
*The 535is isn't fast by today's standards, but it's no slug either. For a healthy motor (more in a minute on that), expect ~7.5 sec 0-60 and a very comfortable cruise at any highway speed, even into triple digits. With the stock 3.25:1 diff, passing in 5th is slow, but 4th does it nicely. To wake it up, all you need is a chip (recommend Mark D'Sylva, less $$ than Conforti or Dinan and better for the M30) and a diff (3.46, 3.64, or 3.73 all wake the car up nicely). Many, but not all, iS cars came equipped with LSD.

*Motor: assuming it's a well-maintained 300k, it's not something to run from but something to be wary of. I bought my 535is with 200k-ish on it; it is at 263k now with nothing but routine maitenance, and I've put it on track several times. I am not easy on the car at all; it visits redline on any drive it gets up to temp and I make liberal use of the loud pedal. Check compression at least (you can do it in the driveway when you look at the car), and leakdown if you want to pay for it (worthwhile IMO). If the motor is healthy and can pull through the RPM range with no hesitation, I wouldn't sweat the miles.

*Others have given you good info on suspension. Any car this age will always need something, but the E28s rarely fail. Things wear out, you replace them, life goes on. In 60k miles over 5 years, my car has only stranded me once (diff internals shattered at 240k miles).

*Watch for rust. Unless you want a beater, avoid any car with any rust. E28s aren't terrible for their age, but they do rust. Common areas: trunk (license plate lights, taillight gaskets, under the rear bumper at the corners where there are seam welds), doors (along the bottom if they were scraped on curbs), sunroof (clogged drains), or cowling (bad windshield seals).

$1500 should be enough to take home that car if you want it. Be prepared to spend $1500 over top of that to bring it up to snuff over the next summer.

Good luck!
-tammer

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Unless the motor has been totally rebuilt, I would not even consider a car with 300k miles. While most e28 guys will disagree with me, I see mileage a huge factor in my pursuit of autos. I bought my e28 with 57,000 original miles. I would never buy a BMW or any car for that matter with more than 100k miles.

This is unnecessarily cautious. If it helps you sleep at night, that's great, but when looking at 20-year-old cars, I'd much rather have one that was driven 5k-10k/year than one that sat there with all the rubber dry-rotting away, fuel and brake lines drying and cracking, shocks settling, mice getting in, electric motors siezing, etc. Even better is a car that's been tracked a bit, as track drivers are generally fanatical about mechanical maintenance (it's their ass if they have a failure), and frequent brake flushes are good for the hard lines. With the exception of cars like Gary Bossert's old "Bubble Car" E30 M3, most cars that sit are slowly decomposing. Engine parts that aren't bathed in oil get pitted; seals contract and leaks appear, weather stripping fuses to metal and tears when you open doors, leather dries and cracks, and so on. I'll take well-used and well-maintained any day.

-tammer
(currently three cars in the stable with 527,000 miles among them)

I'm local to the OP and I know what car and ad he's referring to. Haven't seen the car in person though.

Some thoughts:
*The 535is isn't fast by today's standards, but it's no slug either. For a healthy motor (more in a minute on that), expect ~7.5 sec 0-60 and a very comfortable cruise at any highway speed, even into triple digits. With the stock 3.25:1 diff, passing in 5th is slow, but 4th does it nicely. To wake it up, all you need is a chip (recommend Mark D'Sylva, less $$ than Conforti or Dinan and better for the M30) and a diff (3.46, 3.64, or 3.73 all wake the car up nicely). Many, but not all, iS cars came equipped with LSD.

*Motor: assuming it's a well-maintained 300k, it's not something to run from but something to be wary of. I bought my 535is with 200k-ish on it; it is at 263k now with nothing but routine maitenance, and I've put it on track several times. I am not easy on the car at all; it visits redline on any drive it gets up to temp and I make liberal use of the loud pedal. Check compression at least (you can do it in the driveway when you look at the car), and leakdown if you want to pay for it (worthwhile IMO). If the motor is healthy and can pull through the RPM range with no hesitation, I wouldn't sweat the miles.

*Others have given you good info on suspension. Any car this age will always need something, but the E28s rarely fail. Things wear out, you replace them, life goes on. In 60k miles over 5 years, my car has only stranded me once (diff internals shattered at 240k miles).

*Watch for rust. Unless you want a beater, avoid any car with any rust. E28s aren't terrible for their age, but they do rust. Common areas: trunk (license plate lights, taillight gaskets, under the rear bumper at the corners where there are seam welds), doors (along the bottom if they were scraped on curbs), sunroof (clogged drains), or cowling (bad windshield seals).

$1500 should be enough to take home that car if you want it. Be prepared to spend $1500 over top of that to bring it up to snuff over the next summer.

Good luck!
-tammer

Great synopsis!

Any input on the deal I posted above? I'm not too sure, but it sounds good. :dunno

ohnoes, if the paint and interior are decent and there's no rust, then I say go for it.

Great synopsis!

Any input on the deal I posted above? I'm not too sure, but it sounds good. :dunno
Depending on a few things:
*Do electronics all work?
*Shift smoothly?
*Compression good?
*Brakes in good shape?

I'd say yes, go for it. At $2500 you expect some issues, but they should all be minor issues. 140k is fairly low miles for a car of that age. Good luck!

-tammer

ohnoes, if the paint and interior are decent and there's no rust, then I say go for it.

On cars this old on the East Coast, there is bound to be a tad of rust on most cars. What if there is a tiny bit? I don't think there is, but what if there is a very small amount in the usual place(s)? Like a couple mm/cm.

Depending on a few things:
*Do electronics all work?
*Shift smoothly?
*Compression good?
*Brakes in good shape?

I'd say yes, go for it. At $2500 you expect some issues, but they should all be minor issues. 140k is fairly low miles for a car of that age. Good luck!

-tammer

Yeah, that's what I am thinking. I might even be able to get him down to ~ $2,100. :alright

I will hopefully meet him tomorrow to see and drive the car.

Barring my usual forgetfulness, I'll hopefully bring along my camera and snap some pics. I do have some that the seller sent me; and although not great, I can post them up.



By the way, what kind of 0-60 times can one expect with an EAT/JimC chip? Is a flat 7.0 plausible? People on MyE28.com were saying that they thought the E28 would beat the E34 up until high speeds (and only then due to the increased aerodynamic efficiency of the E34) stock, and the E34 535i can easily do 0-60 in 7.0 stock. :dunno :help

How about mine... Its for sale.

1988 535i, 5spd - White/Black leather interior
Interior is a 9 out of 10
Exterior is a 8 out of 10
136k
10 years of service records
AC converted and serviced at the end of last summer
Comes with snow tires that have one winter on them already mounted on neat steel rims

$4000 firm
Its in my garage in Nutley, NJ

On cars this old on the East Coast, there is bound to be a tad of rust on most cars. What if there is a tiny bit? I don't think there is, but what if there is a very small amount in the usual place(s)? Like a couple mm/cm.



Yeah, that's what I am thinking. I might even be able to get him down to ~ $2,100. :alright

I will hopefully meet him tomorrow to see and drive the car.

Barring my usual forgetfulness, I'll hopefully bring along my camera and snap some pics. I do have some that the seller sent me; and although not great, I can post them up.



By the way, what kind of 0-60 times can one expect with an EAT/JimC chip? Is a flat 7.0 plausible? People on MyE28.com were saying that they thought the E28 would beat the E34 up until high speeds (and only then due to the increased aerodynamic efficiency of the E34) stock, and the E34 535i can easily do 0-60 in 7.0 stock. :dunno :help
Sorry it's taken me awhile to respond to this. Rust on the lower part of the rear fascia is pretty easy to fix and is generally isolated. Surface rust at the jackpoints is probably nothing to worry about. Rust anywhere else, especially the cowling, will be a beast.

I think I put my $0.02 in that MyE28 thread, but I think it would take a chip and a diff to spank an E34 w/ manual trans.

RacerDoc's car sure sounds sharp; if it lives up to the description with that mileage then the price seems reasonable. It's generally worth it to spend a little more up front for a better car, but you'll probably still pump some money into it over the first two years of ownership on this and that.

-tammer

Tammer thanks for the nod on my car, its not perfect but looks close to it. I bought is last year, I was sold by the mileage and service records, plus the guy who owned it live one town over from me, in Montclair.

I am selling because I just purchased a 2001 Audi S4....

RacerDoc's car sure sounds sharp; if it lives up to the description with that mileage then the price seems reasonable.

+1 - a nicely kept E28 535i 5-speed with that mileage is a great car to own. If you have the cash, I'd be tempted. If I were still looking for a daily driver, I'd probably beat you to it.

Mine is still available.

Mine is still available.

Do you have pix posted anywhere?

yes

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...oc/e28Rear.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...e28Oblique.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...c/e28Front.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...c/IMG_4931.jpg

Hm, I just checked the links but not sure why they don't work. The car is posted in the for sale section of bimmerforums and the liinks work.

I will bump it to the top.

Doc, they don't work 'cause, well, look at the links! You didn't link right; it just shows "..." in the middle of the link, instead of whatever it should be.

OK I think I have it figured out

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s280/Racerdoc/e28Oblique.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s280/Racerdoc/e28Front.jpg

Doc, they don't work 'cause, well, look at the links! You didn't link right; it just shows "..." in the middle of the link, instead of whatever it should be.

It shows the same way in his classified and it works fine - it is just a way for BFc to shorten links so they aren't half a page.

Most likely he copied temorary URL's...

Nice car...

Thanks

The car runs great, I will be taking it out today with the for sale sign on it.

Joe,
My 87 535is has over 240k and runs like a champ. I'm the second owner and I live at 6500 ft alt and it still puts me back in the seat pretty good. I've had it up to 140 with just a bit left in the tach before RL. I still get 25-27mpg or so driving it fairly hard. I love this car, best $400 I ever spent. Clear coat on the roof and hood is peeling. I only have 2 beefs with it. It's completely underbraked. There great short term but begin to fade rapidly as they heat up and lack the surface area or ventilation to disipate the heat. I'm planning to upgrade to M5 rotors etc... up front and E32 rear brakes. Also if it still has the 390mm wheels the TRX tires will be difficult if not impossible to find and expensive in any case. New 18" wheels, BFG G-Force KDWs and all the bigger brake parts are costing me less than one set of TRXs. 300k miles wouldn't bug me much if the cars been maintained. You can pick up decent used M30 engines for $500 and rebuilds for $1000 with a core trade.

Joe,
My 87 535is has over 240k and runs like a champ. I'm the second owner and I live at 6500 ft alt and it still puts me back in the seat pretty good. I've had it up to 140 with just a bit left in the tach before RL. I still get 25-27mpg or so driving it fairly hard. I love this car, best $400 I ever spent. Clear coat on the roof and hood is peeling. I only have 2 beefs with it. It's completely underbraked. There great short term but begin to fade rapidly as they heat up and lack the surface area or ventilation to disipate the heat. I'm planning to upgrade to M5 rotors etc... up front and E32 rear brakes. Also if it still has the 390mm wheels the TRX tires will be difficult if not impossible to find and expensive in any case. New 18" wheels, BFG G-Force KDWs and all the bigger brake parts are costing me less than one set of TRXs. 300k miles wouldn't bug me much if the cars been maintained. You can pick up decent used M30 engines for $500 and rebuilds for $1000 with a core trade.

18" wheels on E28s is blasphemy. :nono

Gotta sqeeze those big e34 m5 rotors under there. they're nearly 14" in diameter. I know I could get by with 17" wheels but I figure a little more room to pass air through couldn't hurt. The price is right.

hmm, this thread has been very helpfull, a local 535iS recently caught my eye...