All right, so I finally decided to nut up and make an e30 Buildup thread! We're making good progress on our swap and we are expecting to have it running by summer! I guess this will put little extra pressure on us to work faster!

My name is Garret Van Swearingen, my dad is Steve. I go to the University of Washington and am pursuing an ME degree. My dad is Cheif Mechanical Engineer for AIT, a company that does Aerospace Automation. I'm saying this because we've modeled up some of parts in CATIA v5 and run FEA on them (Engine Mounts). Here is a brief history of our swap and what motivated us to do this! We've been wanting to do an engine swap for a long time, and last year we learned of the Vorshlag e36. We began looking for an e36 and were on the verge of selling my e30 when I came across the Jagermeister e30 LS1, and immediately decided to do the same to my e30. Within week we had purchased an LS1 with a T56, driveshaft, all accessories, etc. With one last celebratory thrashing late at night of the m20 (pretty much drove the shit out of it, I started it up the next morning with some nice white smoke coming from the exhaust...lol) we began the tear down. Here is a sparse picture journal documenting what's gone on since last summer.

We have much more documentation then this including CATIA models, receipts, pictures, wiring diagrams, etc. For those interested, when we are finished we WILL compile all of what we have done and how we did it and sell it at a very reasonable price. We may even consider making some of the custom bits like Motor Mounts, Tranny mount, etc.

Finally, since I'm at school and can only work on this when I go home on the weekends work has been a little slow, but it is coming along. Oh, and I know that our steering rack is a little rusted but it's getting replaced this week, as well as that the bay is a little dirty, but it will be cleaned immensely for the final install. Also, we will be getting rid of the metal bumers. lol...Enjoy!




Bringing the LS1 home
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/DSCN0092.jpg




Pulling the m20
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/DSCN0262.jpg




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/DSCN0274.jpg



Our, "holy shit will this thing really fit" moment!:eek:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/DSCN0278.jpg




I had to....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/DSCN0283.jpg



I was tired taking out the old driveshaft....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/DSCN0203.jpg




Test fit of the T56
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/HoldingTrannyUp.jpg



A little hammering on the tranny tunnel
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/HammeringTunnel.jpg



Foamie mock up chillin in the Engine bay...Damn does that look nice!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/JusChillin.jpg



Test fit of Radiator
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/Raditor.jpg




Comes right up through the original hole!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/UpthroughHole.jpg





Our modified GTO front sump oil pan to fit over the crossmember
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/OilPan.jpg




This is going to make the rear end no problem!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/Driveshaftcoupler.jpg




Welded up Engine Mounts
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/Mounts4.jpg




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/Mounts2.jpg




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/Mounts3.jpg





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/Mountinstalled.jpg


That's it for now, I'm in class on my laptop so maybe I should pay attention...:stickoutt

Hope that I didn't screw up any of the images...

Looks good!

what car whas this to start? that looks like it will be fun

It was an 86 325es....it will soon be an 86' 357 is.....:redspot

Looking good bro :thumbup:

Great pics...keep 'em coming!

Good looking! Points for teh e30 :) Keep us posted with updates!!!

This may be a dumb question, but what is the advantage of an LS-1 over a regular aluminum small block chevy? Is it smaller or lighter?

Wow, that project is awesome man, thanks for sharing and keep the pics coming :redspot

I wish my dad was an engineer.:( ..............:) Thanks for sharing!

Glad to see there are young hot rodders out there to take over for us old farts! I put a 1 pce driveshaft in mine, same type of rear u-joint. I don't know if it matters to you, but Inland Empire Driveline markets trans yokes w/ removable caps. I had to use one for my E32 conversion. Keep it up, looks good.

Garret, does SX300 mean anything to you?

Up for a fellow Washington IET Major!!!!

I like your motor mount design--clean, simple and strong. Love to see some more close-ups of the oil pan mods.

Garret, does SX300 mean anything to you?

Um...I'm drawing a blank here...should it? Like nissan 200sx?...but 300SX?

for some reason those motor mounts look to me like they are going to break, Im sure you dod knows what he is doing but why are they off set forward? with that long horizantal leg and 90 degree angle... I dono the'll probaly work fine though looks like thick metal and nice welds. I probably would used a more triangulated design

for some reason those motor mounts look to me like they are going to break, Im sure you dod knows what he is doing but why are they off set forward? with that long horizantal leg and 90 degree angle... I dono the'll probaly work fine though looks like thick metal and nice welds. I probably would used a more triangulated design

I was thinking the same thing. I've seen to many headers where the metal began cracking just above the weld at the point of maximum stress, and then the crack progressively worked its way around tube in both directions following the weld.

Wow....looks like a good start.

for some reason those motor mounts look to me like they are going to break, Im sure you dod knows what he is doing but why are they off set forward? with that long horizantal leg and 90 degree angle... I dono the'll probaly work fine though looks like thick metal and nice welds. I probably would used a more triangulated design

We put them forward because headers are going to be a pain and that gives us extra room. We also did a bunch of FEA (finite element analysis) with 3D spacemodels (CATIA v5)to see if they would break. We put 700lbs vertically and 350lbs horizontally at the same time, but the real amount that we'll see is 1/2 the engine weight + half the torque which is gonna be 250lbs+175lbs=425lbs. Also the horizontal beam in the model was 1 inch longer than it really is, so we should be good.

well it sounds like you have done your homework, 700 lbs verticle seems like alot.(and its a light engine) you are using the factory rubber mounts so I think that would help absorb alot more than if you were using solid mounts. I'm not an expert by far but it seems like there is alot of stress involved with hard shifting, bouncing revlimiters, hitting hard bumps in the road.ect. its not like you are building a race car and you would through thousands of dollars out the window with a dnf, it would only be a minor inconvience if you were to have one break. there is a high probability it wont though, I have seen some pretty hagard looking abominations hold up.
I want to see some vids of this beast when you are done!

Allright, so it's finals time for me so I haven't been working on it much lately but here is the latest:

We got out new steering rack and that will be going in this weekend...probably. We got a hydro boost brake booster and found out that it WON'T fit where the old booster went so we need to make a linkage for a remote setup of the hydro boost. Here's a model of what the linkage is going to look like mounted to the firewall.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/BrakeBellcrank03.jpg

Garret,

SX300 is a kit airplane, the Swearingen SX300 to be accurate. Talking about your father being in the Aeorspace industry and being a DIY guy it was too many coincidences.

Go here for more info: sx300group.org/index.htm

We put them forward because headers are going to be a pain and that gives us extra room. We also did a bunch of FEA (finite element analysis) with 3D spacemodels (CATIA v5)to see if they would break. We put 700lbs vertically and 350lbs horizontally at the same time, but the real amount that we'll see is 1/2 the engine weight + half the torque which is gonna be 250lbs+175lbs=425lbs. Also the horizontal beam in the model was 1 inch longer than it really is, so we should be good.

You may want to consider manuvering loads ... compression bumps in the road, vibration, etc, especially if you decide to hit the track. Despite the car being ground based you might want to shoot for some kind of safety factor like 5 or 10 since weight (relatively) is not really as much as a problem as it would be in an airplane. I know if they break on the ground it wouldn't be the problem it is in the air but it could still tear the hell out of your car.

2 cents worth from a design engineer who gets to work with the smart structures guys everyday.

cheers,

Dave Menheere

I've daily driven my e30 for a couple years now while I saved up to do a ls6 swap in my Camaro. With this insight I might be doing the swap on my Camaro later...

Any hassles with the swap yet,

I have heard about the master cylinder placement being an issue as well as the steering rack, but have heard using the e34 cylinder which moves it infront of the engine and using a Z3 rack make this work. Also what are you going to be doing as far as the rear end. With power such as that you need to have a good dif to hook up the power.

I've daily driven my e30 for a couple years now while I saved up to do a ls6 swap in my Camaro. With this insight I might be doing the swap on my Camaro later...

I am in the Bay area and you are more then welcome to come down and see what I am doing with the E24/LS6. Email me and we could set up a time if you like.

ed@mwrench.com

Ed

This may be a dumb question, but what is the advantage of an LS-1 over a regular aluminum small block chevy? Is it smaller or lighter?

Smaller, lighter, Shallower valve angle, head flow, chamber design etc etc

SX300 ... look up

http://www.sx300group.org/sxktix.jpg

no affillation,

cheers,

Dave Menheere

Yeah they're probably some distant relative of our's because the name Swearingen or Van Swearingen is really rare but I don't know...cool though none the less

That's going to be a kick ass car, post this up on E30tech, a lot of other E30 enthusiast's would love to see this project come together.

How much do you think everything will cost and what all do you plan to do? What rear end is going to find its way into the car?
What are you giong to do for brakes?


~Zar4

this looks awesome man. subscribed!

please respond to my PM i would really like to purchase a set of mounts !!!

MZ3 rear diff and axles are pretty strong, I think one of the AA cars is making over 715whp with the stock rear end. MZ3 parts are a direct swap.

Looking good guys. Keep up the good work.

haught!

excellent work, can't wait to see more, def subscribed!

please respond to my PM i would really like to purchase a set of mounts !!!




For some reason I don't have a PM from you...?


Thanks for the comments. We almost are done with our hydroboost linkage and we have decided to make our own headers because we have got gto, camaro, and vette headers and none of them seem to work. I have no idea how Bob Heacox made the vette headers work. Custom headers will be a fun project anyway! After that it's just drop the real motor in, electrical and exhaust. I've been super busy with school so work is going slowly but we will definitely post some more pictures soon.

MZ3 rear diff and axles are pretty strong, I think one of the AA cars is making over 715whp with the stock rear end. MZ3 parts are a direct swap.


Do you know how much all that would set us back?

That is awesome, goodluck!

I have to say that I would genuinely be interested if you end up making a small production run of the motormounts.

This is fantastic. Cant wait for more updates. Good Luck!

Awsome project!
Get that school work done ASAP, and good luck.

Dude can you PM me a list of goodies that would be helpful for my LS1 swap?

Let me know if you can sell me a set of mounts.

Dude can you PM me a list of goodies that would be helpful for my LS1 swap?

Let me know if you can sell me a set of mounts.

I'll work on it but I'm at the end of spring quarter and I have to focus on finals :eyecrazy so you probably might not get it till juneish ...

Thanks man I would appriciate any help I can get.

I totally understand the school thing. No hurry. Take your time.

Unreal, keep us updated!

Can't wait to see it finished.

subscribed

i can see those motor mounts being re-designed. they dont look right for the application.

I disagree with everyone saying the motor mounts look weak. The way they are designed, there is very little shear force on the weld, rather, most of the force on it will be in compression.

Pics of the remote booster linkage coming soon. Tranny mount should be done soon as well, then it's on to headers and exhaust! The exhaust is going to be DAMN TIGHT...

It looks, good. Are you usuing all LS1 accessories?

Awesome project!

Are you using factory engine management?
What are you using for integrating the electronics?
Dude talk to us...

:wave:

Hi From garret & Steve

We're using an LS7 waterpump with 1/2" spacers between it and the block (from Wegner motorsports, a NASCAR engine builder in Wisconsin). The LS7 pump pulley is about flush with the crank pulley. We used a CTS-V serpentine belt tensioner with a few washers behind it to get in line with the belt.

Our '99 Camaro engine uses the stock wire harness and PCM. We have a small adapter harness (www.scanmyride.com) that provides AC and fan relays. We will have to add an ignition relay.

There is a limited interface between the PCM and the host car. Most of the interface is at BMW connectors C101 (ignition, fuel pump, oil pressure switch, temp sensor) C104 (tach, switched power to main relay pull-in coil) and C105 (A/C request). We mounted a BMW temp sensor in the RH cylinder head (9/16-18 thd -- huh? thought it was a metric car) and a BMW oil pressure switch on the GTO oil pan.

We will need a 318 "personality module" that plugs into the back of the E30 instrument cluster. Our car is a 325 (with 6-cyl personality module). We need the 4-cyl personality module so that the tach signal from the LS PCM will be compatible. Hey: anybody got a 4-cyl module??

We are about 1/2 way done. We are now remote mounting a '97 Mustang HydroBoost and master cyl since there is no room on the LH side for a conventional booster on the cowl. We are also making a custom steering intermediate shaft from (2) E34 steering u-joints and a short piece of pipe. This will help in running the LH headers. We intend to cut-down the '99 Corvette headers we have and re-weld as necessary.

The LS1 & T56 weigh about 610lbs fully dressed with accessories and intake manifold (see the Vorshlag photos of their engine on scales). About 500lbs will be on the front engine mounts (BMW 540 isolators) and 100lbs on the tranny mount. We are in process of figuring out the transmission crossmember.

When we're done, we intend to post a complete write-up with part numbers, drawings we have made, what could be better. We're looking at a July finish as Garret gets out of school and can spend more time on fabbing parts.

E30-LS1 aka 357is

Um good thread and that car is going to scoot!!!

Can't wait for the write up and drawings!!!! Good Luck guys!

You guys are after my own heart. Kudos on interfacing with the factory gauges!

I am going to wait for the whole documentation of your swap before I get into this myself. I'm still trying to determine the feasability at this point.

What are you going to do about the suspension to deal with the weight. It will make the car very heavy up front and pull when cornering...Though this is probably for straight line speed...Special halfshafts too??

cool project.

cheers,
stefan

if you referenced the Vorshlag thread (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=675305), you'd know the LS1 isn't the cast-iron lump most take it for at first glance. It's 409 lbs with the monster T56 behind it. It can also be placed behind the front wheel centerline, making the mass centrilization better than with the M20.

What are you going to do about the suspension to deal with the weight. It will make the car very heavy up front and pull when cornering...Though this is probably for straight line speed...Special halfshafts too??

cool project.

cheers,
stefan

Stefan,

Have you read any of these threads? The LS1 is super light being that it is an aluminum block/heads V8. Just because it's a V8 does not mean that it is an overweight monster you could expect to see in a LTD or a Caddy.

The whole point of a swap like this, is because of the minimal weight diff. Soooo much power and maybe a 50 lbs weight trade off.

Halfshafts may be a problem. But that's an obsticle that can be overcome.

i am simply stating my observations and not trying to cause a riot. I believe that the m20 is about 245lbs, and the ls1 will be about 400 or so lbs, plus the beefier drivetrain...I know its aluminum, and i know its not a huge difference of weight, but for such a light car, it still makes a difference for there will be around 150lbs of extra load.

I was only asking if that will be addressed, or, as it seems, nobody thinks that 150lbs or so up front will change anything....

but hey, cool project and kudos for tackling such a sweet project.

Stefan

Hi From Garret & Steve

Check out the Bob Heacox swap of an LS engine into his E30: 2750lbs before, 2830lbs after -- like having your 6th grader along for the ride.

The LSx engines are the lightest, most compact, most powerful engines available, with lots of growth potential via the huge amount of hot-rod parts available. The standard heads flow as much cfm as NASCAr heads of only a few years ago; check out the MagnaCharger surercharger; etc, etc.

LSx can't be beat from a cost and availability viewpoint. Putting a turbo into an E30 would cost more and be almost as much effort.

Be aware, though that putting an LSx engine into a small car like an E30 is not easy -- a Miata engine bay is roomier -- see LS1tech.com conversions & hybrids (there are guys putting LSx engines into nearly anything you can imagine -- great tech info also)

E30-LS1 aka 357is

Yeah the weight is not really the issue. The issue is, when this is done with the obvious attention to excellence these guys have, is a car that stock, is going to outrun the new M3 V8 and could potentially hang with it on modest track conditions with modestly skilled drivers.

The most exiting thing I see is taking advantage of those heads and building an extremely high revving high compression LS1 which most people do not do due to the cost effectiveness of FI and the torque associated with them. He is oging to get to play with things normally disregarded unless class rules keep you from FI. THe fact his powerband will not start until 4500 RPM or 5500 RPM will be irrelevant because even out of its powerband the 5.7 will make more power than an original M3 engine.

rock on man

i am simply stating my observations and not trying to cause a riot. I believe that the m20 is about 245lbs, and the ls1 will be about 400 or so lbs, plus the beefier drivetrain...I know its aluminum, and i know its not a huge difference of weight, but for such a light car, it still makes a difference for there will be around 150lbs of extra load.

I was only asking if that will be addressed, or, as it seems, nobody thinks that 150lbs or so up front will change anything....

but hey, cool project and kudos for tackling such a sweet project.

Stefan

To make it clear, the 409 lbs is including the transmission and accessories, the M20 weight doesn't include the trans at the very least.


oh, and I think this pic pretty much sums up what will happen:

oh man the more I think about this the more I like it. THe LS1 is undersquare. I beleive there are now suffficient parts out there to build an oversquare symmetry, think destroked 7.0 liter, 8K RPM motor. In fact, Im sure there are. It would be a thing of beauty to behold. Imagine pulling up and hearing this monstrous V8, snappy V8 ticking begrudgingly through the headers, and the sounds it will make when you finally touch the throotle and the tach jumps towards 8K like the 1 was on fire.Clutch pushing back on your left foot till your muscles start declining to comply. You'll have to figure out someway to launch this go kart.

Here's some updates of the remote brake booster linkae. Sorry about the dirty engine bay, and the primer that will of course be fixed by the end of this whole project.


Before with the outline of what needed to be hammered/removed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010065.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010066-1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010067.jpg

The hydoboost will mount to the front of the bracket pointed toward the left headlight.

nice fab

awsome work

Dig it!!!! Homegrown build too!!!

Great idea - can't wait to see it all together.

If you wanted to loose a brake booster all together would a Tilton pedal and master cylinder set-up work? Then you could just pick out the right size m/c's to get the pedal feel you want.

If you wanted to loose a brake booster all together would a Tilton pedal and master cylinder set-up work? Then you could just pick out the right size m/c's to get the pedal feel you want.


I think that would work great but wouldn't it be $1500 or so to set that up?

I think that would work great but wouldn't it be $1500 or so to set that up?
With 2 pedals and 2 MCs... maybe 400? $235 for a dual pedal assembly and another $70 for master cylinders. You run two MCs for the brakes (1 for each circuit), so add a 3rd for the hyd. clutch and it still keeps you under $500. Easy to adjust (balance bar) and very compact. Lots of options on mounting, too. The nice thing about Tiltons is you can mount them under the dash ("overhung"), but of course this means gutting the factory dash somewhat. Not something you'd wanna do on a real street car. ;)

http://www.vacmotorsports.com/db/images/til-2_pedal_aluminum_overhung.jpg

Or alternatively, floor mounted:

http://www.vacmotorsports.com/db/images/til-2pedal_alu_floor_mount.jpg

Or even with the m.c. reservoirs remote mounted:

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/images/72642a.jpg

I like the remote brake master cylinder mount you guys made. Clever. The notch in the vertical strut tower bracing needs reinforcement, but I assume you'll get to that later.

The relocation of various parts is only bound by your creativity. Here's an example: the ABS assembly from an E36 is mounted under the (semi-gutted) dash, right on the trans tunnel. :D

http://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/155048972-S.jpg (http://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery/2885831#155048972)

Ahh ok i thought those things cost a lot more... You're right about them not being for a street car though i think...

Hey Fair, thanks for the pics in your post. We decided to go the HydroBoost route because we thought that it would require the least in mods (under-dash of the E30 is a rat's nest) and be kind of cool. We can also make every thing with a hacksaw and a file & 110v MIG welder. BTW, www.onlinemetals.com can supply small steel and aluminum parts cut to size for almost nothing -- check them out.

We're using a '97 Mustang GT booster and master cyl; 259.00 plus shipping from www.rockauto.com (a superb site that has real pics of all of their stuff and much lower cost than any other site we use). The little forged forks on our "joggled" linkages are from McMaster-Carr (9.00 ea), the rod-end link is from Midwest Control (about 35.00 with rod-ends).

We're going to get the HydroBoost system painted black and mounted this weekend. We are going to patch the half-moon cut-out in the shock tower stiffener with a piece of sectioned pipe. Maybe we can finish the trans x-member, too. (good pics of the LS1-T56 combo on scales...)

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

With 2 pedals and 2 MCs... maybe 400? $235 for a dual pedal assembly and another $70 for master cylinders. You run two MCs for the brakes (1 for each circuit), so add a 3rd for the hyd. clutch and it still keeps you under $500. Easy to adjust (balance bar) and very compact. Lots of options on mounting, too. The nice thing about Tiltons is you can mount them under the dash ("overhung"), but of course this means gutting the factory dash somewhat. Not something you'd wanna do on a real street car. ;)

http://www.vacmotorsports.com/db/images/til-2_pedal_aluminum_overhung.jpg

Or alternatively, floor mounted:

http://www.vacmotorsports.com/db/images/til-2pedal_alu_floor_mount.jpg

Or even with the m.c. reservoirs remote mounted:

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/images/72642a.jpg

I like the remote brake master cylinder mount you guys made. Clever. The notch in the vertical strut tower bracing needs reinforcement, but I assume you'll get to that later.

The relocation of various parts is only bound by your creativity. Here's an example: the ABS assembly from an E36 is mounted under the (semi-gutted) dash, right on the trans tunnel. :D

http://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/155048972-S.jpg (http://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery/2885831#155048972)

The reason I brought up the Tilton set-ups is I'm considering puttin their firewall mount pedals in my E30. The 2002 booster doesn't provide much assist with my M50 swap and I'd like better bias control too.

I like the 4th gen F-body shift knob in the last pic, I used to have a '95 Z28:D

Hey guys, school's out! Now we can finally finish this thing! Here are some pics of the hydo boost being test fit. Obviously we still need to paint them...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010101.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010100.jpg

Getting closer! Keep up the good work.

We just got a '91 328is with a popped motor the other day (cracked oil pan; we just got a replacement pan yesterday). Trying to figure out what to do with it. Its SO much tighter underhood than the E36!!! Wow, what a dramatic difference. We have a later M42 1.9L from one of our LS1 swaps that might go in place of the factory M40 4-banger. Its a nice looking car, and we got it for almost free from a nice customer of ours. Who knows...

We're maybe going to look at another E30 tomorrow night. This is an '87 325is 5-spd with a popped motor (pattern??) but in much nicer shape. Bright red, showroom clean, tons of records. Might grab that E30 to swap in an S50 out of another LS1 E36 car we have on deck (next in line). We're bursting at the seems with cars, though, so we might not get that one. Too many neglected BMW candidates out there!

I still don't see how you guys are getting an LS1 underhood. :confused

Looking good so far. The braking system definitely gets in the way on a V8 swap... Clean nice install ... Ls* motors are great.. I am more old school but like the Ls* motors/management. Are you going to use factory ECU or a standalone?

Looking good so far. The braking system definitely gets in the way on a V8 swap... Clean nice install ... Ls* motors are great.. I am more old school but like the Ls* motors/management. Are you going to use factory ECU or a standalone?

The factory ecu can do just about anything you would need and tuning packages are readily available.

The factory ecu can do just about anything you would need and tuning packages are readily available.

Sorry to hijack...

What tuning packages have you used and which in your opinion is the best bang for the buck? My buddy is sold on LSEdit but the price is steep.


I am working on a 6.0l swap in my older pickup..

LS1 edit is about the last choice. efilive or hptuners. There are also plenty of shops and mail order tuners that can get the job done well and cheaply.

Hi Guys:

We had originally wanted to do an E36-LS1 swap, and went looking for one for a couple months last year, but couldn't find the "right" one; we had an E30 on hand; we looked at the Heacox swap and went for it.

The E30 engine bay is tiny. Even with the HydroBoost mounted fwd and about 3.7" outboard, there is not much room. The master cylinder is longer than we'd like, but its new and the price was good ($59.00 from rockauto.com). I look at the Miata swaps and see that that little car has room for its conventional brake booster.

The fwd LH exhaust header tube will be quite close to the HydroBoost, but a little more metal bashing with the ballpien hammer should make room. We have to put some short brake lines from the master cyl to the ABS, and we're good to go. We will probably replace the residual pressure valve going to the rear brakes as we won't be able to find it after we're done.

We still have to fab and weld-in a small bracket thet attaches to the top of the HydroBoost mount (grey in pics). This bracket will take the inbd-outbd and fwd-aft loads at the top of the mount. It will attach to the LH wheelarch by M8 bolts. We will also make a little cover for the first bellcrank on the firewall.

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

Residual valve means you are still running drums?

Are you running drums?

Why not just remove it and run disks.


Brakes are a nice thing to have

We had originally wanted to do an E36-LS1 swap, and went looking for one for a couple months last year, but couldn't find the "right" one....
Yea, I wish someone would make a damn kit for that!

The E30 engine bay is tiny. Even with the HydroBoost mounted fwd and about 3.7" outboard, there is not much room. The master cylinder is longer than we'd like, but its new and the price was good ($59.00 from rockauto.com). I look at the Miata swaps and see that that little car has room for its conventional brake booster.
Well, at least on the E30 you're not giving up something critical like factory ABS going to Hydroboost brakes (wow, $59? good price on that BTW. Have you ever priced new BMW diesel Hydroboost MCs? HAHA! Nutso prices.). On the E36, which has one of the best factory ABS braking systems of any car ever, this would be a travesty! ;) We are going to great lengths to keep the factory MC, hydraulic ratios, and ABS unmolested (we are converting any non-M cars to the '95 M3 system). Moved, re-plumbed, but otherwise kept fully funcitonal.

As for the Miata booster, yea, its so dang small it fits even with a Small Block Ford 302 swap (I had contemplated one of those for a while, even bought the car, but it takes some chassis and K-member hackery, niot to mention ditching the factory "torque tube" in the trans tunnel/rearend, and fore sure a custom IRS rearend swap). But that SBF is a wee little thing, fits in my back pocket. That is the smallest 5.0L production V8 you'll ever see. The LS1 took a lot of it's architecture from the SBF (and very little from the old SBC). If the factory BMW boosters only came in a smaller diameter you could stay vacuum assist in the E30... but we haven't found a BMW booster yet that works (or another make/model booster with the same 4-bolt firewall/pedal mounting pattern). On the E36, though, the engine bay is wide enough that a lateral engine shift of only 0.75" clears the OEM booster. When we get to the E46 it might need little or no lateral shift, since it's about 2" wider than the E36.

The fwd LH exhaust header tube will be quite close to the HydroBoost, but a little more metal bashing with the ballpien hammer should make room. We have to put some short brake lines from the master cyl to the ABS, and we're good to go. We will probably replace the residual pressure valve going to the rear brakes as we won't be able to find it after we're done.
Cool. What headers are you using - I thought they were home built? As for the brake lines, the easiest and best way to start is to buy either factory or aftermarket replacement OEM steel brake lines and bend them to suit. They come in various straight lengths (BMW sells very few pre-bent lines, even as OEM replacements). Avoid SS brakeline tubing - too stiff to work with for most folks (myself included). The carbon steel lines bend "like buttah". :D If they are too long and you need/want to cut them to the ideal length (instead of adding a loop or extra bends to take up the slack) then make sure and get a GOOD flaring tool kit. We went through 4 flaring kits (2 cheap ones for the inverted and metric bubble flares) before we realized this isn't a tool you skimp on.

We're about to post header pics on the E36 Beta thread, too. Every time I hear our Alpha car run... whoa man, it reminds me why we're doing these crazy projects! If you're ever in Houston for a weekend when they're running an SCCA Solo event (where our compadre that has the Alpha car runs it monthly), you have to swing by and just watch/hear this car run. This is the way ALL BMWs should sound! He just came up to Dallas last night and got a set of 315/35/17 710s and a new Sparco EVO from us (and brought us an E30/M40 oil pan for our blown-up '91 318is), and he's going to run these Rs on CCW 17x11s now (stepping up from 17x9 LTW5s). That car will just keep getting faster...

Keep up the good work, guys!

Follow the rear brake line from the ABS to just above the LH frame rail where the Evap, fuel supply, fuel return lines are grouped together and then go down and aft. There is a residual pressure valve in the brake line just above the area where the brake line joins the above lines. Some cars still have a residual pressure valve to insure that the rear brakes always apply before the fronts; this is important under low traction conditions.

As for the brake lines, the easiest and best way to start is to buy either factory or aftermarket replacement OEM steel brake lines and bend them to suit. They come in various straight lengths (BMW sells very few pre-bent lines, even as OEM replacements). Avoid SS brakeline tubing - too stiff to work with for most folks (myself included). The carbon steel lines bend "like buttah". :D If they are too long and you need/want to cut them to the ideal length (instead of adding a loop or extra bends to take up the slack) then make sure and get a GOOD flaring tool kit. We went through 4 flaring kits (2 cheap ones for the inverted and metric bubble flares) before we realized this isn't a tool you skimp on.




+1 on the brake line advice. I tried two different flare tool kits, before going to NAPA for help. They offer hard brake lines in various lengths, flare types and fitting sizes. I needed some adapter fittings, but it was still MUCH less of a headache just bending these lines to fit vs. making my own.

Hey Fair, Thanks.

We looked long and hard at other brake booster solutions before adding the difficulty of the HydroBoost. We had thought that a hot-rod style 6" booster would fit -- we held a coffee-cup saucer (6" dia; use whatever ya got when figuring stuff for a swap) in place on the CL of the vacuum booster, but no way. With our modified steering intermediate shaft (two E34 u-joints and a connector tube) and the booster relocated, we *might* have enough room to run the LH exhaust. We are going to try modifying a set of '99 Corvette headers ($95.00 off of a guy on the LS1tech forum). Bob Heacox says they worked for his swap, so we'll give that a try. If not, we buy flanges and a bunch of pre-bent tubes and get that bacon sound going.............

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

BTW, can't wait to go to the junkyard and get a "735" trunk lid emblem and re-arrange the numbers

...With our modified steering intermediate shaft (two E34 u-joints and a connector tube) and the booster relocated, we *might* have enough room to run the LH exhaust. We are going to try modifying a set of '99 Corvette headers ($95.00 off of a guy on the LS1tech forum). Bob Heacox says they worked for his swap, so we'll give that a try. If not, we buy flanges and a bunch of pre-bent tubes and get that bacon sound going.............
We have a pretty slick E36 steering shaft assembly developed for our swap. It will work on non-swap E36's as well, for a firmer "rag-joint-free" steering shaft. Small diameter chrome-moly needle bearing sealed U-joints and a 2-pieces collapsable SS shaft (all much smaller diameter than the stock stuff). We are going to use these same custom broached joints for an E30 steering shaft later this year (which would make an E36 rack swap possible - these are SO much faster than the E30 racks it isn't even funny). We'll post on BF.com when these are ready (going into produciton soon).

BTW, can't wait to go to the junkyard and get a "735" trunk lid emblem and re-arrange the numbers
Ha, makin bacon! :D

If you don't wanna trouble yourself with junkyardin for an emblem, call Yves at BMA or send them an e-mail. We just got a mess of roundels and new emblems from them for cheap (we buy lotsa stuff from them every month - look it up in the ETK and send them a part number for easy/quick service). I love shiney new roundels for a BMW that has old ones that are rotted and trashed... best $12 ever spent on spiffing up a bimmer.

Hey Fair Thanks ...

We would like to do a steering shaft the uses a double-d intermediate shaft & steel u-joints, but the overall-length of the E30 steering shaft is only 10.25" or so and they have that crummy M17.5x54 spline. This is about 2/3 the length of an E36 unit (we went to the junkyard and got one of those thinking we could use it on our swap... want it?) The E34 u-joints are about 3.3" long and we need a stub of the E34 steering shaft to weld our tube to so 10.25"-(2*3.3")-(2*.5") = 2.65" for the connecting tube which is too short for much of a 'slip-shaft'

Garret: don't front-end anything or you gonna bite the steering wheel...

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

Ha ha...what do you take me for, a female or something :lol


j/k...if there are any females reading this... :shifty


One of these days we're going to need to make 2 user names, lol...

good discussion here, one of the first.

interesting on the residual pressure. I just have prop valves

Here's a few pics of the vette headers in place. We cut off the collector and are planning on welding our own on. We are going to need to cut a little more off before we weld. Also, right now they come down right on top of our engine mounts. We'll fix that :stickoutt

Left side with hydo boost linkage - good clearance.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010121.jpg


Relation to the engine mounts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010122.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010113.jpg

Top view showing the linkage

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010124.jpg


Top view showing booster and master cylinder

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010125.jpg




Tomorrow I'm hopefully going to finish up the tranny mount so we'll work on posting some pics once that's done.


-Garret and Steve

Sorry to hijack...

What tuning packages have you used and which in your opinion is the best bang for the buck? My buddy is sold on LSEdit but the price is steep.


I am working on a 6.0l swap in my older pickup..

EFIlive is by FAR the best!

If the factory BMW boosters only came in a smaller diameter you could stay vacuum assist in the E30... but we haven't found a BMW booster yet that works (or another make/model booster with the same 4-bolt firewall/pedal mounting pattern).

Porsche 924/944 booster have the same bolt pattern as BMW's. I fit a 924 booster (8" dia) for my E30/Euro S50B32 swap and it fit with some shaving of the intake. The only issue was the length of the master cylinder interferred with the rubber intake boot. The shaft is even the same thread pitch for the BMW clevis. If I could find a short M/C that fits the booster it would be installed on the car right now!

A conventional brake booster simply will not fit. Take a look at the first photo above in our recent post of 06/13/07. Note the joggled bellcrank assy mounted to the original vacuum booster location; then sight down the edge of the LH cylinder head -- you would need a booster smaller than 3.75" in diameter -- this is the width of the rectangular plate that uses the (4) mounting holes from the original booster. Even for those brave souls who think that no booster is necessary, the master cylinder would interfere with the LH exhaust manifold.

We think that no booster is a bad idea: leg fatigue, it makes a nice car lousy to live with, the BMW driver's seat is flimsy and would fall apart after repeatedly reacting the high brake pedal force necessary, etc

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

If you ever decide to make a kit. I WANT ONE!!!:mad:mad:mad :)

Got any updates?

Hey Fair Thanks ...

We would like to do a steering shaft the uses a double-d intermediate shaft & steel u-joints, but the overall-length of the E30 steering shaft is only 10.25" or so and they have that crummy M17.5x54 spline. This is about 2/3 the length of an E36 unit (we went to the junkyard and got one of those thinking we could use it on our swap... want it?) The E34 u-joints are about 3.3" long and we need a stub of the E34 steering shaft to weld our tube to so 10.25"-(2*3.3")-(2*.5") = 2.65" for the connecting tube which is too short for much of a 'slip-shaft'

Garret: don't front-end anything or you gonna bite the steering wheel...

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is
http://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/photos/142053564-M.jpg

We are having several of these shaft assemblies built now for our upcoming kit as well as uses such as yours, road racers, etc. These assemblies have a 2-piece collapsible shaft and should be able to compress to the length you need. These have custom u-joints with that funky BMW metric spline on the outer ends and a Double-D shaft size on the inside.

I have a good picture of this shaft assembly somewhere.. I will snap a picture of it next time I have it out of the car.

That looks like a slick set-up for the E36; nice and compact. Our E30 intermediate shaft is only 10.75" long overall. We are using E34 u-joints and a piece of tube in between, the tube is only about 3.5" long. Each E34 u-joint is about 3.38" long -- how long are the u-joints you are using?

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

As for the brake booster and master cylinder setup...nice work, but a bit too complicated for my taste. I had the exact same problem, i had to relocate the brake booster because the exhaust pipe from the turbo manifold was supposed to go right through the space the booster was occupying.

What i did, instead of making a complicated remote linkage:

- bought a Tilton floor mounted 'box, although i could've kept the standard pedals
- relocated the booster inside the cabin space, and instead of mounting it on the firewall in the engine bay, i've mounted it in the exact same space but on the cabin side on the firewall. This setup left only the master cylinder in the engine bay clearing a LOT of space, making room for the exhaust pipe.
- activation of the brake booster: i've mounted 2 slave clutch cylinders on the rod activating the booster, and the 2 master clutch cylinders are activated by the brake pedal. This way i could've relocated the booster in the trunk if i wanted to, the booster is now activated hydraulically by the 2 cylinders instead of direct linkage from the brake pedal. No rigid connections, rods, etc.

Much simpler, and probably cheaper than the setup you've used. BTW, 2 cylinders are used because they can leak - so if one leaks the other one takes over, so the brakes can't fail.

Sorry, no pics of how it now looks, i've just done it a few days ago. And it works...

We considered using an hydraulic "linkage" from the master cylinder on the firewall to a remote 6"dia vacuum booster that mounted its own slave&master cylinders which then went on to the rest of the brake system. We decided not to do this for the following reasons:

* Wanted to keep a mechanical link to the brake system in case of leaks
* Would be similar to the E34/M60 brake set-up
* No under-dash changes -- so little room to do anything under there
* Just for the fun of designing and fabbing the brackets
* Cool factor when showing off our work to the "Huh? a Chevy V8 in that little thing?" crowd
* The exhaust manifolds are the most difficult part of the E30 swap: get as much room as possible

The E30-LS1 swap is not for the faint of heart. It is a difficult swap because of the small size of the chassis. If one is not very mechanically adept, then choose to do an all-BMW swap like the M50 or other BMW 6-cyl.

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

P.S. We will post some pics of our completed steering shaft this afternoon (in our freshly semi-cleaned engine bay!) It turned out pretty good!

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

how much have you spent on this swap. i want to do it but need to know how much it would cost in the end. i dont want to start something i cant finish

Ok, by popular acclaim what we have spent so far -- and getting near the end:

4000.00 on LS1 & T56; Foster auto in Portland, OR; both with @55k miles
300.00 on a used Lincoln MIG welder (infinite variable voltage & wire feed)
80.00 Argon/CO2 bottle
325.00 HydroBoost& Mustang master cyl www.rockauto.com
250.00 new reman steering rack www.rockauto.com
120.00 new control arms eBay
70.00 E34/M60 engine mounts eBay
20.00 material from HomeDepot for engine mount brackets
140.00 new '84 Camaro radiator, heavy duty www.jagsthatrun.com
95.00 aft driveshaft flange to BMW diff flange www.jagsthatrun.com
95.00 GTO oil pan eBay
60.00 GTO oil pan welding
30.00 GTO oil pan patch material www.misumiusa.com
50.00 to get patch bent by press-brake
90.00 '99 Corvette headers eBay
85.00 LS2 waterpump assy www.wegnerautomotive.com
35.00 spacers for warterpump www.wegnerautomotive.com
40.00 (2) sets of waterpump gaskets
54.00 , LS2 serpentine belt tensioner www.rockauto.com
100.00 misc hardware
150.00 engine hoist
100.00 tranny jack
35.00 engine leveler
150.00 wire harness/fuse center to interface to PCM connectors C100, C101, C105

Approx total so far @6450.00

we still have to finish exhaust system which may take another 300.00 or so and will get the car re-painted

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

Then I should be able to get it done for under 10K even with the roll bar and 5-lug!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I wont hold my breath

Ok, by popular acclaim what we have spent so far -- and getting near the end:

4000.00 on LS1 & T56; Foster auto in Portland, OR; both with @55k miles
300.00 on a used Lincoln MIG welder (infinite variable voltage & wire feed)
80.00 Argon/CO2 bottle
325.00 HydroBoost& Mustang master cyl www.rockauto.com (http://www.rockauto.com)
250.00 new reman steering rack www.rockauto.com (http://www.rockauto.com)
120.00 new control arms eBay
70.00 E34/M60 engine mounts eBay
20.00 material from HomeDepot for engine mount brackets
140.00 new '84 Camaro radiator, heavy duty www.jagsthatrun.com (http://www.jagsthatrun.com)
95.00 aft driveshaft flange to BMW diff flange www.jagsthatrun.com (http://www.jagsthatrun.com)
95.00 GTO oil pan eBay
60.00 GTO oil pan welding
30.00 GTO oil pan patch material www.misumiusa.com (http://www.misumiusa.com)
50.00 to get patch bent by press-brake
90.00 '99 Corvette headers eBay
85.00 LS2 waterpump assy www.wegnerautomotive.com (http://www.wegnerautomotive.com)
35.00 spacers for warterpump www.wegnerautomotive.com (http://www.wegnerautomotive.com)
40.00 (2) sets of waterpump gaskets
54.00 , LS2 serpentine belt tensioner www.rockauto.com (http://www.rockauto.com)
100.00 misc hardware
150.00 engine hoist
100.00 tranny jack
35.00 engine leveler
150.00 wire harness/fuse center to interface to PCM connectors C100, C101, C105

Approx total so far @6450.00

we still have to finish exhaust system which may take another 300.00 or so and will get the car re-painted

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is
Were the control arms & steering rack necessary for the swap or were they maintenance items?

Great father and son project! That car will be a track weapon. What are you doing for suspension and brakes?
I'm doing a stage TCD stage 2 project and going with the Treeehouse 5 lug kit and a UUC E36M3 BBK. You'll be needing lots of rubber and brakes to keep that thing under control!

That's cheap! Congratulations.

As long as you have the engine out, replace anything that is hard to do with the engine in place -- so we replaced the rack. Control arms had 150k mikes on them, so replace them. We left out a new condenser (125.00), receiver/drier (40.00), r134 expansion valve (40.00). We will have to make power-steering hoses from pump to HydroBoost to rack and buy fittings (estimated at 100.00). We will probably replace evaporator (140.00) and heater core (150.00) as long as we are at it. New a/c hoses and fittings will be @150.00. We are going to make our own beadlock-type hoses and go to the local NAPA store that has a crimper for free.

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

Oh, forgot the driveshaft mods, estimated by Drivelines Northwest at about 250.00 to modify the Camaro driveshaft we got with the engine. This will include a new front u-joint and adapting the aft end for a Dana 1310 u-joint and our differential companion flange from JTR. Also (2) E34 steering u-joints cost 100.00, and we still need to go back to the junkyard and get a "735" trunklid number emblem that we are going to re-arrange into "357"

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

Funny how another thousand can just creep in :)

im want to do this swap bad but have no welding skills. haha but are you keepin the e30 rear end on there and do you have a web address for the engine and trany. thanks for the info. and keepin us up to date on the swap. :)

wow very impressive. Cant wait to see the final results.

what are you planing for the exterior? keeping the diving boards?

-mike

im want to do this swap bad but have no welding skills. haha but are you keepin the e30 rear end on there and do you have a web address for the engine and trany. thanks for the info. and keepin us up to date on the swap. :)Honestly I didn't have any welding skills till we bought the welder (this is Garret - the kid) and I just practiced quite a bit and have done all the welding on this project. Just go pick up some scrap and start laying beads! You'll get it.

wow very impressive. Cant wait to see the final results.

what are you planing for the exterior? keeping the diving boards?

-mikeNo...I hate the diving boards. Those are definitely going but engine swap is first priority. Then comes the small stuff. Anyone have any good 4 bolt 16 x 8 wheel ideas?


Also a clarification that was $50 for (1) E34 steering u-joint and $35 for the second u-joint, not $100 for each one.


Finally cleaned up a little today and welded in a patch for the hole we cut for the booster linkage. Of course the heat affected zone of paint turned brown after my hard work with the toothbrush :rolleyes but oh well. We are soon going to be painting areas of the engine bay before final install. We are currently working on the headers and then it's onto exhaust!

Here are some overdue pics of the steering shaft, firewall bell crank housing, and the likage patch.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010112.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010114.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010101-1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/2002.jpg

fcken yeah
hell yeah
you wanna sell me your 357 know, hehe J/K

Great Job!

way to go.

Hey guys...

Make a parts list for your shop:

Bare minimum to do the fabrication level you are at sans all your sickass engineering software or CNC...A good skilled person can still do one-off stuff very well with a two axis mill

Hey guys...

Make a parts list for your shop:

Bare minimum to do the fabrication level you are at sans all your sickass engineering software or CNC...A good skilled person can still do one-off stuff very well with a two axis mill

You have no idea how much we would love to have a bridgeport/milling machine...

I think tomorrow is going to be a big day of progress...pictures soon to come!

Ive heard that reman mills are a big value, looking into getting one.

But seriously, you guys should put together a "fabricators garage" thread or something similar

We have done this swap with a hacksaw and a file. No mill. The (2) pcs of bent 16ga sheetmetal we bent down at the art department at U of Washington one evening; we had the oil pan patch bent at a sheetmetal shop. The only work we farmed out so far is the bending of the patch and welding it into the pan. We cut the pan with our trusty hacksaw, Dremel tool and files.

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

Subscribed for next update :)!

We have done this swap with a hacksaw and a file. No mill. The (2) pcs of bent 16ga sheetmetal we bent down at the art department at U of Washington one evening; we had the oil pan patch bent at a sheetmetal shop. The only work we farmed out so far is the bending of the patch and welding it into the pan. We cut the pan with our trusty hacksaw, Dremel tool and files.

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

If I wore a hat, it would be off to you

Thanks man! Yeah, I bought the old man a nice chop saw for his b-day for cutting tubing etc. but he still loves using the hack saw. Says it's a "good workout or something...

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

Got any updates for us? I wanna see!!

You have no idea how much we would love to have a bridgeport/milling machine...

I think tomorrow is going to be a big day of progress...pictures soon to come!


I picked up a WWII vintage bridgeport and South Bend Lathe a few years back... A sawzall and grinder worked great for years but it's nice to machine parts that need to be a little more precise. I'll admit I do more Carb work on the mill than anything else but cutting flanges for a couple turbo builds was childsplay and cheap...:redspot

I picked up a WWII vintage bridgeport and South Bend Lathe a few years back... A sawzall and grinder worked great for years but it's nice to machine parts that need to be a little more precise. I'll admit I do more Carb work on the mill than anything else but cutting flanges for a couple turbo builds was childsplay and cheap...:redspot

Im trying to find something myself

Im trying to find something myself


The Mill I picked up is 3 phase.... cheaper and I just wired it in that way... You can also swap the head motor with a 220 motor if you like..

The Mill I picked up is 3 phase.... cheaper and I just wired it in that way... You can also swap the head motor with a 220 motor if you like..

I thought it was crazy expensive to convert three phase...

I thought it was crazy expensive to convert three phase...


When I looked into swapping away from 3 phase I think the motors were a few hundred dollars. The mill came with the 3 phase motor (really was a electric water/pump motor that was reworked) that powers the head unit motor. It takes up more space as I have the 3 phase converting motor on the floor.

Package deal and the price was right ... Just the cost of the wiring changes necessary in my garage.:redspot

What I could do with even a frikkin decent cross vise and a decent drill press :(

What I could do with even a frikkin decent cross vise and a decent drill press :(


I spent years using the torch/grinder method. Then I used the Vise on the floor drill, sawzall, grind method for a few... And now have a few more options. :)

UPDATE: Today we just received TWO pairs of Sanderson Block Hugger Headers that we will be fitting tonight!! Hopefully at least some combination of the two of them will work!! Pics soon to come!

Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

wow, awsome project

THEY WORK!! Sanderson Headers FTW!! :redspot

Last night was a huge step. The guys at Sanderson Headers sent us two different versions of their block hugger headers saying we could mix and match them as we like. They also included angled collector reducers for free for us. Really cool dudes. Huge plug for them. The parts we used were CC1-LS1 on the left side and LS-150 on the right side.


This is what the headers that we didn't use looked like but the ones in there are the same only opposites. This is also the angled reducer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010037.jpg




Driver's side bolted onto the foamy

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010031.jpg



Passenger Side

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010030.jpg




Driver's Side showing the brake booster linkage

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010036-1.jpg



Driver's Side showing the oil pan, rack, engine mount, collector, and steering shaft in the background

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010035.jpg



Driver's side showing the steering shaft, collector, engine mount from the bottom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010032.jpg



Passenger side header showing mount and starter motor

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010034.jpg



Passenger side front view showing block, oil pan, mount, starter motor, headers

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010033.jpg


Finally, this is why we needed the LS2 water pump. Here is the LS1 water pump bolted to the foamy. You can see how close to the radiator it comes, as well as out mock up of the Sanderson headers sitting on top of the foamy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010023.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010022.jpg





Well that's pretty much it. Tonight we're starting on the pre-cat section of exhaust. We're ordering "mini-cats" today as well. Goal is to have the real deal in there by sometime next week. Exciting stuff!:buttrock


Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

just subscribing, nice work

This is one of the coolest threads I've ever seen - up there with those crazy incredible guys in Spain. Worthy of a Roundel article, if y'all are members. What an awesome project, and congrats for being able to do it together - I'm betting Dad realizes how valuable that is...

just subscribing, nice work
x2

just subscribing, nice work

x3

exciting indeed...

Nice work!

What I see is basically "short tube" headers, which just may be California emission compliant. I know that long-tube headers are not, because of the length of tubing to the cats. CARB wants the cats to light off immediately, and that is why you see the cats tucked up so close to the exhaust ports on OEM vehicles.
Just because the comply with CA requirements does not mean that they are acceptable. They still have to be "certified" by CARB, which is a hassle.

What I see is basically "short tube" headers, which just may be California emission compliant. I know that long-tube headers are not, because of the length of tubing to the cats. CARB wants the cats to light off immediately, and that is why you see the cats tucked up so close to the exhaust ports on OEM vehicles.
Just because the comply with CA requirements does not mean that they are acceptable. They still have to be "certified" by CARB, which is a hassle.

I think that the reason for this is solely for cold-start emissions, and doesn't effect emissions once the engine has warmed up, at least that's what I've heard. Can anyone confirm this? If so, it seems like over regulation to me...

So we're in Washington state ... why worry about Calif rules ...
We are going to use the 4-o2 sensors ; 2 upstream of the cats and 2 down stream. Our cats (2 4" dia mini-style) will be close to the end of the headers but not as close as the factory F-body. We may use the air pump (AIR system) as supplied with our drivetrain. The air pump runs for up to 180 seconds apon cold-startup in order to "light off" the cats by running an oxygen-rich exhaust stream. We have not yet decided this issue.

Our exhaust plan is to go from the header flanges to mini cats, then to an Edelbrock 55767 dual-inlet and dual outlet muffler just after the cats (this will mount it in a location similiar to the E30 cat / fwd muffler). From the muffler back one pipe running along the original exhaust route, another pipe following and then diverging off to the right side just aft of the differential.

Bought the muffler and cats today off of teh internets.

Garret & Steve doing E30-LS1 aka 357is

Hey Garret & Steve,

Good lookin' headers. Your pix appear to show quite a bit of room between the frame rails--even more than my E28. Do you happen to have a measurement?

The Geezer

The E30 frame rails are about 27.12 wide. The RH header flange (Sanderson LS-150) has about ~~ .5" clear to the nearest face of the frame rail -- see third pic from top of above post. The LH header flange (Sanderson CC1-LS1) has about 3-4" clear of the frame rail -- see second pic from top.
Our LS1 is centered between the frame rails.

The RH flange is down just below the CL of the starter and outboard of it, and centered just fwd of the #8 cylinder CL. The LH flange is tucked close to the block face, about 1" clear of the pads that are for the aft engine mount location (Gen 1 smallblock pads) and centered just fwd of the #7 cylinder CL. We can get some dims tonight.

garret & Steve doing E30-LS1 aka 357is

awesome project and also thanks for sharing the pics of the progress. Question for ya. Have guys fabbed up the trans crossmember? If so any pics?

awesome project and also thanks for sharing the pics of the progress. Question for ya. Have guys fabbed up the trans crossmember? If so any pics?

Man...I could have sworn I posted these already, but I guess I was wrong. There is only 100lbs or so on the tranny mount so it was not necessary to make it overly beefy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010010.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010011.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010012.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010013-1.jpg

Maybe I'll try to post some pics of what we do tonight on the pre-cat section of exhaust... we'll see...



Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

So awesome- keep up the great work

Damn guys. that thing is gonna be sick. Im excited for you. GET IT DONE!!!!!

subscribed for future reference and parts!

Really nice! Keep it up.

Subscribed!

great job! I'm pursuing a computer engineering degree myself and your drawings look amazing although I only know how to use autodesk inventor for CAD at the moment. Keep up the good work!

wow never seen this done before.

THEY WORK!! Sanderson Headers FTW!! :redspot

Last night was a huge step. The guys at Sanderson Headers sent us two different versions of their block hugger headers saying we could mix and match them as we like. They also included angled collector reducers for free for us. Really cool dudes. Huge plug for them. The parts we used were CC1-LS1 on the left side and LS-150 on the right side.


This is what the headers that we didn't use looked like but the ones in there are the same only opposites. This is also the angled reducer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010037.jpg




Driver's side bolted onto the foamy

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010031.jpg



Passenger Side

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010030.jpg




Driver's Side showing the brake booster linkage

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010036-1.jpg



Driver's Side showing the oil pan, rack, engine mount, collector, and steering shaft in the background

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010035.jpg



Driver's side showing the steering shaft, collector, engine mount from the bottom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010032.jpg



Passenger side header showing mount and starter motor

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010034.jpg



Passenger side front view showing block, oil pan, mount, starter motor, headers

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010033.jpg


Finally, this is why we needed the LS2 water pump. Here is the LS1 water pump bolted to the foamy. You can see how close to the radiator it comes, as well as out mock up of the Sanderson headers sitting on top of the foamy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010023.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010022.jpg





Well that's pretty much it. Tonight we're starting on the pre-cat section of exhaust. We're ordering "mini-cats" today as well. Goal is to have the real deal in there by sometime next week. Exciting stuff!:buttrock


Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is


WOW, you just saved alot of people alot of time, and alot of money...cheers to you sir! I think I might try that header setup on the E36 LS1 I plan on doing...

THEY WORK!! Sanderson Headers FTW!! :redspot
blah blah blah. . .

Well that's pretty much it. Tonight we're starting on the pre-cat section of exhaust. We're ordering "mini-cats" today as well. Goal is to have the real deal in there by sometime next week. Exciting stuff!:buttrock


Garret & Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

Garret & Steve:

AWESOME find . . . I wonder how these will compare to the long tubes everyone else is making. . . .

They may not make quite as much, but in a sub 3000 pound vehicle, whos counting 10 horses or so?


It is sub-3000 pounds, right?

Mine will be :naughty

We're talking ~2300-2400# :devillook

I'm sure the longtubes are nice....however if I'm not mistaken these headers are about $250 a set? even if I have to buy 2 sets, still cheaper than custom headers.

I'm sure the longtubes are nice....however if I'm not mistaken these headers are about $250 a set? even if I have to buy 2 sets, still cheaper than custom headers.

Try around $450 per set with coating.

Doug

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/product_info.php?products_id=173

noone said anything about coatings. try $325 uncoated.

Long tube headers with larger diameter tubes are good for engines operating much of the time at higher rpm's (>1/2 of engine redline) like track cars. We are building a daily driver, so most engine operation will be in the lower half of the rpm range, so we don't really care about the 2 or 3% hp gain we will not get at the top end. Sanderson thinks that their small-diameter tubes make better torq at the low end ... at some sacrifice at the high end. Fine by us!!

We just picked-up our modified driveshaft from Drivelines NW in Seattle. We supplied them with the old Camaro driveshaft, a differential flange and a sketch of what we wanted -- got it back with new u-joints, balanced and painted. Going to check the fit tonite and post some pics :)

again, great work! i found the cc1 ls1 headers on sanderson's web page....cant find a link for the ls-150's. are they fairly new? we should see if they'll do a run for these mismatched headers....

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/product_info.php?products_id=173

noone said anything about coatings. try $325 uncoated.

I said it. Spring and get the coating. The extra dough is worth lower underhood temps, cleaner exhaust gases, and the peace of mind knowing your headers aren't going to rust.

Doug

"coated" exhaust parts are about as useful to me as non-slippery stick grease. The majority of coated manifolds or housings I have used have flaked or disappointed me in one way or another. thanks for your concern though

Long tube headers with larger diameter tubes are good for engines operating much of the time at higher rpm's (>1/2 of engine redline) like track cars. We are building a daily driver, so most engine operation will be in the lower half of the rpm range, so we don't really care about the 2 or 3% hp gain we will not get at the top end. Sanderson thinks that their small-diameter tubes make better torq at the low end ... at some sacrifice at the high end. Fine by us!!

We just picked-up our modified driveshaft from Drivelines NW in Seattle. We supplied them with the old Camaro driveshaft, a differential flange and a sketch of what we wanted -- got it back with new u-joints, balanced and painted. Going to check the fit tonite and post some pics :)

Sweet . . . :buttrock

I was looking at the fitment in you pics and this would be a great alternative. I was also looking at the truck manifolds for some creative snail installs. The Sanderson stuff is definitely nice looking.

"coated" exhaust parts are about as useful to me as non-slippery stick grease. The majority of coated manifolds or housings I have used have flaked or disappointed me in one way or another. thanks for your concern though

Have you had success with Jet Hot Coatings? Not necessarily the best customer service, but they do make a decent product/service.

Doug

They may not make quite as much, but in a sub 3000 pound vehicle, whos counting 10 horses or so?


It is sub-3000 pounds, right?

Absolutely! Should be around 2400 or so. I think that's what Bob Heacox's came out to (the silver E30 M3 that's been floating around here and there....)

-Garret and Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

+1 on Jet Hot - their coatings last well and I haven't had one flake yet. Ran my LT1-powered Impala SS with coated headers for probably 60k miles, and I had the M42 stock exhaust manifold coated two years ago, maybe 20k miles.

I'm dying to see how this turns out - I spent the better part of my 8-hour drive home yesterday thinking of what needs to happen to shoehorn an LS1 into my E30, then I find this thread today... :)

We picked up our driveshaft today from Drivelines Northwest. These guys are really top notch. We dropped it off at lunch on monday and they called us this morning and we picked it up at lunch today (on wednesday!). We were thinking that becuase of the fast turn around, it wouldn't be painted, just ground off where they needed to weld but we got back this shiny black sexy driveshaft! :redspot


Check it out:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010044.jpg

This is the differential flange that we got from jags that run that picks up the e30 differential bolt pattern.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010046.jpg



Here is our drawing for them with the slick Drivelines NW sticker

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010045.jpg


And finally here it is bolted to the diff, showcasing some of BMW's engineer's brightest thinking (aka. the fatal-if-broken fuel tank crossover tube)...we probably will be making a drive shaft loop so I don't become a marshmallow.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010048.jpg

-Garret and Steve E30 LS1 aka. 357is

Absolutely! Should be around 2400 or so. I think that's what Bob Heacox's came out to (the silver E30 M3 that's been floating around here and there....)

-Garret and Steve E30-LS1 aka 357is

should you know, have the power to weight ratio of an outlaw car or something, (Hyperbole is me)

Alright so it took 2 weeks for our freaking cats to come and in that time I managed to break 3 bones in my wrist longboarding (notice the cast on my right - welding, hand in the pic). It makes welding, and pretty much everything else I do quite a bit harder, but the welds still look pretty decent. Here's what we caught tonight...:stickoutt

A lot more coming soon.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010002-1.jpg

-Garret and Steve E30-LS1 aka. 357is

those fabicated bends look you've been working in an exhaust shop all your life. Good work.


Did you manage to get any slag between your cast and skin ? Ouch

Anyway,,keep it up and get some underbody shots

Alright so it took 2 weeks for our freaking cats to come and in that time I managed to break 3 bones in my wrist longboarding (notice the cast on my right - welding, hand in the pic). It makes welding, and pretty much everything else I do quite a bit harder, but the welds still look pretty decent. Here's what we caught tonight...:stickoutt

A lot more coming soon.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010002-1.jpg

-Garret and Steve E30-LS1 aka. 357is


Lookin' good! Now, wipe that smile off your face and get back to work!! I want to see this thing run!! :D:D

Doug

i know i am gonna sound dumb but what kinda car does the ls1 come out of..

LS1: 1999 Camaro; 56,000 miles on engine
T56: 1999 Firebird; 54,000 miles on tranny

Longboard skating or surfing?

Longboard skating or surfing?

Skating... Then I used it for 2 weeks thinking it was sprained...

-Garret

Got a little done tonight. Right side cat looks nice. I'm probably going to cut the driver's side just before the cat and reweld it a little higher up for ground clearance issues...

On a side note it sucks being a single handed lefty when it comes to bolts and nuts in hard to reach places when holding still hot parts from welding in place (aka the collector flange bolts...)



Right side cat
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010003.jpg



Both
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010005.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010007.jpg

-Garret and Steve E30-LS1 aka. 357is

LS1: 1999 Camaro; 56,000 miles on engine
T56: 1999 Firebird; 54,000 miles on tranny

firebird tranny is not a T56. its a T5. (unless you meant a formula or trans am)

a T5 won't bolt to the ls1 because of diff bellhousings, and is a 5 speed.

firebird tranny is not a T56. its a T5. (unless you meant a formula or trans am)

a T5 won't bolt to the ls1 because of diff bellhousings, and is a 5 speed.

Um no...

http://www.lastofthebreed.com/ServiceInformation/FbodyFAQ%27s/T56FAQ.htm

but they did sell a 5 speed version too

Um no...

http://www.lastofthebreed.com/ServiceInformation/FbodyFAQ%27s/T56FAQ.htm

but they did sell a 5 speed version too

Um no...

to what

who is they? 5 speed version what.

T56 is not used on firebirds.

Firebirds use T5s

I guarantee that T56 did not come out of a firebird. ya know why? '99 LS1 firebird doesn't exist. unless of course you pulled it out of a L38 firebird, which is impossible because they don't use T56s :)

i'm just being nitpicky.

firebird = v6 fbody
formula = v8 fbody in firebird style
trans am = v8 fbody with some exterior mods

:)

Whatever..Baseline firebirds werent even worth mentioning. Therfore, when you talk to most car guys, Firebird=Trans-Am/Formula. I guess a cars salesman might see the difference.



Anyway, fitment looks good, quick question though, how come you didnt hang ghte cats a little further back? I realize they work better hoter and closer, but Im thinking of replacement and clutch heat

Yes, its a T56 from an F-body. The salvage yard receipt says "Firebird". The cats are near by the bellhousing as it has the most clearance / cavity inbetween the tranny and the underbody. Remember, this is a tiny chassis that has been lowered (by the previous owner) so we have to get as much ground clearance as possible. We will be doing heat-shields as necessary using polished aluminum sheet (roofing material = not spendy). Once we get to the back end of the cats, the exhaust will be simpler to run.

Whatever..Baseline firebirds werent even worth mentioning. Therfore, when you talk to most car guys, Firebird=Trans-Am/Formula. I guess a cars salesman might see the difference.



Anyway, fitment looks good, quick question though, how come you didnt hang ghte cats a little further back? I realize they work better hoter and closer, but Im thinking of replacement and clutch heat
+1 on both points.

Anyway, translating GM speak to BMW speak:
f-body = e36
firebird = 3-series
formula = 3-series with 2.5/2.8L engine
trans-am = M3

Technically, the formula and trans-am are called the "Firebird Formula" and "Firebird Trans-Am" but it is acceptable to call both Firebirds. It's just like the 328 - it is included in the 3-series class of cars just like the Formula is included the Firebird class of cars. The M3 is sort of in a class of its own as it is technically one step above what the trans-am is. The trans-am is closer to a 330/332 if one existed in the e36 chassis. The Firebird Trans-Am with the WS6 package would be akin to the M3.

Garret - Slow down!

Give me a chance to catch up!

Wow that's great that you guys got some shorty headers to work.....you saved bank on that!!! I tried the Hooker shorties with my p-ayr block when I was first getting things situated....they weren't going to be an easy fit with my motor placement and steering setup, so I broke down and bought Mike Collins' headers. My wallet is still sore

Yeah finding the headers was REALLY lucky. Jeremy at Sanderson was really helpful because sent us 2 pairs and let us mix and match them free of charge. The driver's side is so perfect (but still really really tight) that we were looking at it yesterday and thought that we might have not even needed to make our own steering shaft with the way the header runs.


It's off to work now!
-Garret

+1 on both points.

Anyway, translating GM speak to BMW speak:
f-body = e36
firebird = 3-series
formula = 3-series with 2.5/2.8L engine
trans-am = M3

Technically, the formula and trans-am are called the "Firebird Formula" and "Firebird Trans-Am" but it is acceptable to call both Firebirds. It's just like the 328 - it is included in the 3-series class of cars just like the Formula is included the Firebird class of cars. The M3 is sort of in a class of its own as it is technically one step above what the trans-am is. The trans-am is closer to a 330/332 if one existed in the e36 chassis. The Firebird Trans-Am with the WS6 package would be akin to the M3.

YEah, the first and early second gen Formula/Trans Ams had an interesting "heritage" UNlike today, the Trans AM was originally the "road race" version of the car while the Formula was originally the drag race version, from what I can tell. NOw , it turned to simply levels of performance. Ironically, the Formula still has/had the lower drag coefficient and is capable of being lighter. I hope if they rebuild the FIrebird, it never sees a V6 again, I also hope they make two distinct functions, a 1LE Trans Am, because sadly they say the TA never ran inthe race it was named after. I hope they then make a stripper lightweight Formula. Some of you may know the history better, but this is what ive gathered from the option codes/books ive read

Hey, we're building an E30 with a big V8 ... don't care much about F-bodies, except wrecked ones ....

Garret & Steve building E30-LS1 aka 357is

got the exhaust welded-up from the headers back to the tranny mount; ran out of U-bends; got to the local speed shop 15mins too late today

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/Exhaust.002.jpg

Looking good :)

You guys are really trucking along. Keep it up!!

+1 on both points.

Anyway, translating GM speak to BMW speak:
f-body = e36
firebird = 3-series
formula = 3-series with 2.5/2.8L engine
trans-am = M3

Technically, the formula and trans-am are called the "Firebird Formula" and "Firebird Trans-Am" but it is acceptable to call both Firebirds. It's just like the 328 - it is included in the 3-series class of cars just like the Formula is included the Firebird class of cars. The M3 is sort of in a class of its own as it is technically one step above what the trans-am is. The trans-am is closer to a 330/332 if one existed in the e36 chassis. The Firebird Trans-Am with the WS6 package would be akin to the M3.

What about the Firehawk or 1LE stripper cars :eyecrazy

Yeah, CA emissions rules are a bit tough! It is correct that the short headers will help light off the cats quickly from a cold start and would be one of the test that would be needed to get a "non-certified" header to pass CA emissions. Any header that is after market must be tested and have a C.A.R.B. number affixed to the header to be used in CA.

The LS1 was used in the first year GTO and didn't have a air pump, the reason is because the first cat is so close to the header flange the cats light up quickly, Cameros and Firebirds needed the air pump because the cat was quite aways down stream and they even used double wall tubing to the first cat to help keep the heat. Even the LS6 'Vette engine used an air pump for the same reason. Air pumps usually don't hurt HP because they are only on during cold start BUT, many times in the stock applications there is no care taken where or how the air connection is made to the header and can really disturb the exhaust flow.

The only worry about not meeting CA emissions is if you ever plan to sell the car, it can not be registered in CA unless it is SMOG compliant. All the conversions I do meet CA SMOG requirement and I can tell you sometimes it is a PITA! Particularly when a custom header is required, even thou it will pass the sniff test, it has to pass the "visual" inspection and if it is a custom header, it has to have a metal tag with the C.A.R.B. number on it. We have to take any modified car to the B.A.R. station ( Bureau of Automotive Repair) for inspection and get a sticker so that future SMOG testing can be done to the new engine requirements.

FYI

Thanks, MWrench

We assume that we will have to pass emissions testing here in WA -- along with a pass by the State Patrol inspection. Emissions testing here is done after the car is hot (no cold-start testing that we know of) so no air pump (it only runs for 180 secs maximum after cold start on an F-body). Hopefully, our mini-cats are close enough to the end of the header collector. We are going to use (4) O2 sensors, still need to locate them.

We would have finished the exhaust last weekend, but ran out of U-bends on Saturday afternoon, and got to the local speed shop 15mins too late to buy more -- got to get some on the way home from the office.

Garret says he's not ever going to sell it, and if it gets wrecked, he'll salvage the drivetrain and our mods and put it into another E30 ...

Garret & Steve doing E30-LS1 aka 357is

got a "735" badge coming ... going too cut it into "357" .... ;)

What about the Firehawk or 1LE stripper cars :eyecrazy
M3 lightweight and Alpina varients?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010004-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010002.jpg

I may be crazy, but shouldn't there be some rubber hangers in there somewhere?

I may be crazy, but shouldn't there be some rubber hangers in there somewhere?
I think it's fine to bolt them on. My dad's '69 442 is like that iirc, but he has a ball joint between the headers and exhaust so the engine doesn't break anything when it moves from the torque.

Rubber hangers for the rest of the exhaust. We need to keep the headers/cats/fwd pipe sections as a unit with the engine and tranny; note the close clearance to the tranny mount. Hopefully, we won't have any thermal expansion problems between the hard-mounted front sections and the alum block/tranny. The alum expands twice as much as the steel, but the steel is 2x hotter than the alum -- at least after the cats......... we'll see what, if anything breaks. If it does, we buy some expansion bellows to fix it.

Can't you just mount what you've got so far and start it? I'm dyin' to see some video of this thing in action, and open headers never hurt anyone except maybe the neighbors. You can do the rest of the exhaust after you've had the satisfaction of hearing it run in an E30 (and posting video for all to see, of course.) :D

Tim

Got to get a clutch in, hammer the tunnel a little more, apply heat blanket ... & other little stuff before the moto goes in. Superman Garret thinks he'll get it done in the next ten mins or so ;)

Garret & Steve Doing E30-LS1 aka 357is

I just have to chime in here.

I remember you a few months ago kicking around this idea in the e30 section. I remember a lot of folks sticking their nose up, except for me. I am a sucker for the LS1, thinking of doing this swap someday.

Your progress is fantastic. A little more work than when I put the TPI 350 in a Fiero years ago. I want to hear this thing run!

I know what the LS1 does in my WS6. Based on that, I think this car will scream!

Kudos on some fine work.

Just trying this out. ;) We're gonna get a shinier one and keep the straight connections between the numbers next time. Don't worry...diving boards are going to go. Soon. We have a bunch of stuff coming in from Summit today (hopefully) or tomorrow. There is still quite a lot that we need to do to get the motor in there but I'm going to go all out this weekend :buttrock

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/M_ER_CU_RY/P1010002-2.jpg

Oh yeah, pics of the underside of the car will look a lot nicer now too. Little surprise coming.:stickoutt


-Garret and Steve doing E30-LS1 aka. 357is

awsome project. my motor in my 325i just quit so this may be my next project. I wonder how different it would be to swap in an older SBC instead of the ls1? hmmmm

If you go with old iron...try a 302. Its distributor is in the front, it has amazing aftermarket support, its tough, and, its t