It looks as though the E30 M3 may be sold and once I get settled in a house I’ll be looking to buy a car once again. I’ve narrowed it down to:
Lotus Elise w/Touring, M Coupe, M Roadster, Boxster S, Cayman S (listed in order of $)
Did any of you test drive any of the cars on this list? I’m going to start lining up test drives once the weather gets nicer. I fear the Elise doesn’t have enough cargo room for a weekend’s worth of luggage, but is the cheapest and is the only semi-exotic on the list. The Coupe seems like a good compromise but does anyone have any interior shots of the thing? I can’t tell if it has rear “seats” or not. I don’t think so, just wondering. I think it’s also one of the best looking cars on the list.
I had an E46 convertible for about 4 years and loved the top down driving, hence the reason the Roadster is on the list. However, I think the lines are a lot better in coupe form. The Boxster S and Cayman S are a good deal more and not sure if they warrant the extra cash. Any feedback would be helpful. Things like warranty duration are also being considered (e.g. Lotus 3/36 versus BMW 4/50). Sorry it’s all hypothetical at this point, it’s too cold for test drives.

Orange/Yellow/Red Elise:
http://www.puresportscar.com/gallery/data/507/2chrome-orange-elise-sun.jpg

White M Coupe
http://www.mikefullerton.com/blog/content/binary/1376162283883584%5B1%5D.jpg

Imole/Estoril M Roadster
http://www.motiontrends.com/2005/m10eng/bmw/z4_m_roadster_fs1.jpg

No idea Porsche Boxser S
http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/porsche_boxster_2007.jpg

Speed Yellow Cayman S
http://www.speedsportlife.com/photopost/data/1018/thumbs/220506por.jpg

I wish I made the big bucks like you so I'd have tuff decisions like this! (hehe)

What are you going to use the car for??

I wish I made the big bucks like you so I'd have tuff decisions like this! (hehe)

What are you going to use the car for??


Depending on where I get a job, it could be used a couple times a week for commuting, but more of an "out to dinner" car or a weekend cruiser. I'm hoping to score a job in DC that's metro accessible. Looking at houses in Logan Circle and Dupont Circle, something within walking distance to a Metro station.

I've been using my E30 M3 as my daily driver for the last couple of months, so I know I could take the Elise to work once or twice a week. Heated seats are a huge selling point for the wife, which all have but the Elise, methinks.

If I made big bucks I'd be pricing out a DB9 or something.

Assuming you are using it as a summer driver and recreational vehicle, I'd personally probably steer you towards either the Cayman or the M Coupe. The lines of the coupes are nicer than the roadsters, but thats opinion.

You'll find the big hatch of the M Coupe the most practical of the lot, and the performance of the BMW the most ball-busting. It will engage you more than the other cars in driving, but that doesnt necessarily mean its faster on a curvy mountain road. It just means it will entertain you more when driving it spiritedly.

As for the Elise, while near-exotic in nature, it lacks most of the creature comforts, is more raw, lacks cargo space, and of course needs to be slapped around hard to really give you the thrill you would want. I'd say those who own an Elise probably also have a Dodge Viper, Chevrolet Corvette, or similar in their garage as a sports car -- the Elise is just their little extra bonus toy or weekend racecar. It lacks on the street what the Porsche and BMW do -- comfort, utility, etc. Still a great car, tho.

Test drive them all !! That will surely help... but expect the Porsche to be fast, but tame. The BMW to be a bit more raw and engaging. And the Elise to be fun, but uncomfortable. Cheers!

I concur, I would LOVE a DB9.


That noted, If there is a wealthy person in this room, who is looking to live out there youth through me. Please feel free to PM me. I'm very interested.


haha :stickoutt

To answer your first question - almost all of us made that comparison (LOL).

Since you're moving/living in DC, vert is impractical. Between the hooligans and the non permanent weather perfection (aka muggy summers and having somewhat of winters) it's not a good choice. That takes out Elise, Boxter and MRoad.

Now then. You could go with Lotus Exige and get the top back on... but its a different beast. With the lotus cars, you NEED a second car. They're highly impractical for daily use.

So yea, as above it limits it down to Mcoupe and Cayman S (don't bother with a regular Cayman if you're comparing this class of cars - it's a joke). So it all boils down to how much you want to spend. MCoupe at 55k list or Cayman at almost 70k for the same car. How much of that prestige you want?

AND - do you want the lowest Porsche or one of the higher Bimmers? Solution - buy the coupe!

But - I'm biased. I wen through the exact excercise you outlined and ended up a moupe owner. Love it!

P

Depending on where I get a job, it could be used a couple times a week for commuting, but more of an "out to dinner" car or a weekend cruiser. I'm hoping to score a job in DC that's metro accessible. Looking at houses in Logan Circle and Dupont Circle, something within walking distance to a Metro station.

I've been using my E30 M3 as my daily driver for the last couple of months, so I know I could take the Elise to work once or twice a week. Heated seats are a huge selling point for the wife, which all have but the Elise, methinks.

If I made big bucks I'd be pricing out a DB9 or something.

Based on your needs I would recommend either the BoxsterS or CaymanS.

Out of the list of cars I've only drove the CaymanS, but can extrapolate the Boxster S from that. I've driven the MZ4 Roadster and I currently own an MZ4 Coupe.

Not having driven the Elise, I can only offer you what I've seen and heard from owners that I've come across. It is an incredible track car. It can serve as a daily drive. It's very small and difficult to get in and out of, if you're more than 6'2" and weigh more than 250 lbs, you'll grow tired of it in a month. It's a hot "guy's" car, but the ladies don't appreciate it. it's the tall side sills that makes it impossible for someone wearing skirts to get in and out of. All the guys that I know of that owns an Elise said their wife won't ride in it.

You would think the MZ4 Coupe would be a good compromise between the higher end BoxsterS and CaymanS, and the raw Elise...But it isn't. It's nearly as raw and as much a sports car in nature as the Elise. Sure it's got more padding and it's 10X more comfortable to ride in, and my wife actually enjoys riding in the MZ4, but it has a lot of "quirks" and takes some getting used to. Unless you're driving it regularly, it's hard to just hop into the car once a week and love it. I've let a few friend drive the car and none of them are particularly thrilled, and they're all big time BMW guys and enthusiasts. One of them even went as far as drive the car twice, then decided he wants to get the CaymanS. I don't know how to explain it...I guess the best way to say it, is the MZ4 Coupe has so much potential but it's got some weird unrefined edges that will take a few more drives to get used to. I can't put my finger on what it is, so far all my friends who've driven the CaymanS and the MZ4 Coupe all prefer the CaymanS. Which is not to say the CaymanS is a better car, you just need to drive and get used to the way the MZ4 works.

Now, the CaymanS is a perfect blend of refinement and sportiness. I'm not going to lie here, it is an incredible car. If the MZ4 Coupe doesn't exist and I don't have a pre-conceived notion about all Porsche drivers being @ssholes, I would probably get it. It is an exciting car to drive, incredible chassis dynamics and amazing precision all put together in a plush interior with a nice Porsche touch. For daily driving and all around city driving comfort, the two Porsches you listed trumps any of the other cars, and the Porsches will hold their own on the track.

My only problem with the CaymanS was that it was too easy to drive, and to me it lacks a certain "soul" that both the MZ4 Coupe and the Elise have a ton of. Pushing the envelopes on the Porsche is just too easy and the car too refined. It lacks that character that you'd expect from Porsche, and it lacks that mischevious spirit that comes with a sports car. Sure, you can hang the tails out, but it does with such grace and expected ease that sometimes you feel disappointed. Unlike the MZ4 Coupe...Oh man, when that thing breaks loose, watch the f**k out.

Or skip the M version and get the regular Z4 3.0Si Coupe. It's actually a better all around car than the M, and it turns head just as much.

Gotta agree with Peet. I actually went to test drive all of these cars except for Elise. I have also considered buying that one as well, but think that this could only be purchase as a second car.

Boxster S is actually about 0.3 seconds slower (0-60 wise) than a BMW Z4M and costs a few K more. However, porsche is much more prestiguos car than a BMW, at least to my opinion. I would buy the Boxster S. The only thing you need to keep in mind that porsche charges outrageous money for options. The price for your boxster S will quickly increase to 65K plus with just a FEW options such as xenon, heated seats and nav. (Xenon lights come standard with BMW Z4 M). BMW Z4M also has free maintenance program for the first 4 years that includes pretty much everything including oil changes and etc.. except for tires. Porsche dealer on the other hand will charge you $190 for oil changes and about $900 every 15,000 miles for regular maintenence. It will cost you much more to maintain it in the long run.

After driving all these cars and getting to know most salesman at BMW and Porsche dealerships by their first name, Ive decided to save money and buy a used car. I bought a 2003 BMW Z4 3L roadster at the auction for 21K with 48,000 miles on it. As soon as the odometer went over 50K and my warranty expired, the car start to fall apart. Stablity control, ABS warning lights went off, constant beeping sound (bmw service guy told me that he has never seen (heard in this case) this problem before) are driving me nuts.. BMW is very well "known" for their electrical and computer problems. I will sell the car this spring and probably go back to porsche. I'll probably buy a 2 year old boxster S.

I didn't realize that the M Coupe came with full service for the 4 years, that's pretty nice.

I loaded up a M Coupe and then built a respectable Cayman S. I was surprised that the Cayman S was close to $70k. I think the M Coupe was about $10k cheaper and I do think it looks a bit better, but neither look perfect in my opinion. 9.5/10. The Elise gets a 10/10 and I've heard the wife factor with that car. A buddy of mine went to buy one and said it's impossible to get in and out of gracefully. Granted I'm only 5'11 and 170lbs.

The other thing is that I think I could order the M Coupe as I wanted, where the Cayman S would likely be a Certified PreOwned purchase. Shit, the M Coupe might be as well, but I doubt it.

Can someone post up some pics of the interior (hatch area) of the M Coupe? Also, any pics of Imola, Interlagos or Alpineweiss (I've already checked the picture thread here) would be appreciated.

I must say, the idea of the M Roadster is appealing as well. Need to decide how much I want another convertible.

My E46 convertible was an amazing cruiser - I loved driving and beeing seen in the car. The E30 M3 was an amazing car, physically connected but not something the wife will ride in. I'd like another car we can both enjoy. She's leaning towards the Elise of M Coupe on looks alone. She doesn't want a Boxster (her dad had one). I've driven one but not an S. I thought it was an excellent car, personally.

Why can't AM make a baby roadster in the 50-70k range. Damnit.

Test drove Boxster last year and compared to Z3 3.0i Roadster (which I was driving at the time). Boxster had nicer shifts but Z3 had sweeter engine - can go to higher RPMs before shifting. Track experience demonstrates that Boxster is better track car. Compared to M Roadster (again this is my personal taste) no contest - M Roadster is much more beautiful car inside and out, and is more satisfying to drive.

Lotus Elise - forget it as a daily driver. Elise is a track/weekend car. Co-worker rented one for a weekend to help with his buying decision ($400 rental costs were to go towards purchase). Long story short - he decided to eat the $400 - pulled a back muscle getting in and out! Fun to drive on the track or around town (again, personal taste) but that's it. And the wife thinks it's fugly.

Have yet to test drive Cayman - finally saw one that looks decent. But for the money you could pick up a 3-year old Carrera 4S (like my neighbor just did).

Good words Mike. You could easily get a 2 year old 2S if you don't need your front wheels attached to the engine for the same price as a coupe, and a 1 year old 2s for the same price as the cayman. I turned down a 4k mile, 1 year old 2s for 67k -- for me it was about the monthly.

And if you liked your e46 vert, grab another one. They're giving them away now. With the 335ci coming in a month and the e9x M3 coming in a year, they're standing on lots with dust on them.

P

Good words Mike. You could easily get a 2 year old 2S if you don't need your front wheels attached to the engine for the same price as a coupe, and a 1 year old 2s for the same price as the cayman. I turned down a 4k mile, 1 year old 2s for 67k -- for me it was about the monthly.

And if you liked your e46 vert, grab another one. They're giving them away now. With the 335ci coming in a month and the e9x M3 coming in a year, they're standing on lots with dust on them.

P

E46 convertible is far too heavy of a car, it's why I sold it in the first place. Looks great, great cruiser, but drives like an autobus.

fyi... elise wont leave you on the track if you are in an m coupe... and you definately pull on them HARD in the straights...

I came from a 2005 Lotus Elise so I know a lot about the car. I was one of the first to get one. It is not a good car for taking the wife out to dinner. Parking it in the city is a bugger as a lot of people have had big time damage just parallel parking it. After I sold mine it got rear ended to the tune of 18K! I saw pics and it looked pretty minor. Insurance is also something you want to look at as my Elise was probably 30% more to insure vs my M Coupe. The Elise is a great track day/weekend car and if you are serious about it I highly recommend taking a drive. The motor needs revving above 6100 rpms so be prepared to experience very little low end hp/torque. Checkout www.elisetalk.com (http://www.elisetalk.com) for great info.

I would tend to agree with most of the opinions in this thread.

Lotus: Great track car, very poor creature comforts, harsh ride.

Porsche: the name speaks for itself. If you have the money for the Cayman S buy it! There have been many comparisons done between the m coupe and the cayman s in the auto mags (take a look at motor trend tv online). The concensus from what I have read is the M coupe is the life of the party until the Cayman S shows up.

You will feel a little more connected to the road in a Porsche but both the BMW M coupe and roadster are phenominal cars.

Bottom line is the Porschas will slightly edge out the M models in performance but is it worth the extra $20 grand?

I would tend to agree with most of the opinions in this thread.

Lotus: Great track car, very poor creature comforts, harsh ride.

Porsche: the name speaks for itself. If you have the money for the Cayman S buy it! There have been many comparisons done between the m coupe and the cayman s in the auto mags (take a look at motor trend tv online). The concensus from what I have read is the M coupe is the life of the party until the Cayman S shows up.

You will feel a little more connected to the road in a Porsche but both the BMW M coupe and roadster are phenominal cars.

Bottom line is the Porschas will slightly edge out the M models in performance but is it worth the extra $20 grand?

Them words are doing people a bit of a disservice.

1) almost every review said that the BMW is a better track car and can outrun the Porsche every day all day. Albeit - only slightly.

2) and the bigger deal to me, the Porsche rewards those that don't know how to drive at 100%. The Bimmer, rewards those that stay above 95% so to speak. In other words - if you can tame the beast, it will reward you with faster laps and a better ride whereas the Cayman can be driven by pretty much anyone right out of the gate.

So... time to do some soul searching. You a soccer mom that has no experience (no offense soccer moms ... I coach) - or are you a, living on the edge, kick the seat and grab the scruff kind of driver (as put by Fifth Gear and Top Gear reviews)?

Lastly - every luxury brand owner I've been with snickers at Caymans... "look at the guy who couldn't afford a full 911" mentality. Couple that with the "I just blew $70k thoughts the driver is having" and you're left with a smug looking driver and snickering bystanders :D

That last is my observation and opinion, but the driving style is reviewer fact.

Oooh - I lied, one more lastly - if you EVER want to work on that engine... kiss the Cayman goodbye unless you have the ability to drop the engine or hoist the car every time. Not that 90% of us will ever - but it's a worthwhile point that carries over to after-warranty expenses.

P

I'm in sync with peet on of his points.

Where I break from the pack on Z4M vs Cayman comparisons, is that I take auto mag comparisons with a grain of salt. Why? Because ultimately it comes down to what I like. When the auto mag reviewers start making my car payments, then maybe I'll start taking their advice.

I have tried to "like" the Cayman (and the Boxster), believe me I want to like them - they're Porsches. But as far as Porsches go, neither does it for me like the Carrera.

Recently attended a Porsche event with a neighbor of mine who is a Porsche fanatic ('89 Slant-nose Turbo and '04 C4S). We both agreed that before you even set foot in it, the Cayman just doesn't have the visual impact that the Z4M has. You see a Z4M at a dealership and your heart starts racing. You see a Cayman and it's "yeah, so?"

Funny, I'm in a similar boat. I have an '06 Elise right now and am thinking about getting a Z4M Roadster. Now, don't get me wrong the Elise is an incredible car and I have no doubt that if I trade it in I will have another sometime in my life. The way it thrills, the way it moves. It's like nothing else.

That being said, it's small, impractical, hard; you have to drive the snot out of it. But it's light, nimble and feels the way a car should feel. You can push it and push it and push it and once it starts to let go you can either go with it or back off. It's an amazing machine.

But the top takes a few minutes to get off, and you loose all the boot space when you put it in the trunk. It's loud and it screams "Look at me!" It doesn't help that I got my car in Chrome Orange and have a Larini exhaust.

I love the Elise but even still I am looking at the Z4M... The Elise is like a beautiful Italian supermodel - incredible to look at, breathtaking to ride and gets you respect; but damn is it high maintenance to keep one for long.


Disclaimer: I haven't driven the Z4M yet and find the regular Z4's slow and cumbersome on the road.

............
Lotus Elise - forget it as a daily driver. Elise is a track/weekend car. .............

Exactly...
Most certainly not a night out for dinner car.
You take it to work once in a while to show your buds... but that's it.

It has a huge threshold to slink over & is spartan to the teeth.
It's a pure functon dedicated sports machine.

If i was not 6'6" i'd have a Lotus Exige S and i would drive it to work as my commuter........but thats just me. Hell, i might just cut off a few inches and do it :) BMW really needs to build a M coupe to rival the Porsche GT3. Now we're talking.

And if you REALLY want to read a magazine that gives you the truth on sports cars, there is only one and it's name is EVO.

Someone in Chicago commutes in a Chrome Orange Exige every day, even in winter; we see it in the garage my office uses.

The M Coupe is much classier than the Cayman. The M says drive me, the Cayman says look at me, I drive a Porsche but can't afford a 911. Did you ever try to get in/out of the Elise?

Did you ever try to get in/out of the Elise?

Hey! I'm 6'2" and 165lbs and I have no problems getting in and out of the car! I consider myself of tall height and average build. The only people that have trouble getting in/out of the Elise are out of shape or completely inflexible... no offense.

In all fairness has anyone actually driven all three mentioned vehicles?:eyecrazy :eyecrazy

I think alot of focus has been put on personal opinion and astethics wich in itself is certainly a major weighing point.

As far as the auto mag tests go, yea sure they can be subjective. Yet they are objective as well and provide you with profesional track/performance/slalom/skid pad 0-60, 1/4 mile results etc. etc. etc.

In the end it all comes down to personal opinion. Do you think an M6 is in the same territory as a 997 turbo? M6 more hp, great car but id take a 997 turbo anyday.

Do you like the looks of a M coupe or cayman S?

In the end if you have the dough. Test drive them both and see which one stirs the soul.:shine :shine

im amazed at how many people are moving from the elise to the z4m

im amazed at how many people are moving from the elise to the z4m


It's an issue of practicality. The Elise is completely impractical in every way. The Z4m is also impactical however compared to the Elise it's like a 4dr sedan.

A lot of people bought into the Elise thinking they were getting an affordable exotic car. The Elise is the furthest thing from that. Hell the leather on my $20 wallet is nicer than the leather inside of the Elise!

Driving my Elise for 2 years made me a better driver but I was ready for a car with more power. It's incredible in the corners and braking (low weight) but above 100 mph the car is lacking. I was considering an Exige S but felt like I was ready for something completely different. So far I am very happy with my M Coupe but it is going to take some time to get used to 30% more weight.

Well, boys and girls, I've actually driven all of these cars except the Lotus. I love the idea of an Elise, but I can't imagine buying a $42k+ car with a 1.8 litre Toyota engine. Maybe I'm just a snob :) Good luck with the purchase decision, it is definitely a difficult one.

At the end of the day, it came down to Porsche or BMW for me, and though I love the Boxster S and Cayman S, they just were not viscerally thrilling enough for my tastes. Beautifully balanced, quick, but severely overpriced and just not raw enough for my tastes. So as of about 3 hours ago, I am the proud new owner of a 2007 Imola Red M Roadster, all options, Black extended leather, Carbon Black leather trim. Picking it up tomorrow or Wednesday, depending on how soon they can prep it. I am more excited about this car than any of the other 15 BMWs I've had over the last 17 years. My first M car!

Yikes. I just bought a two seat roadster with a trunk the size of a shoebox. :eyecrazy

Anyone have the number for a good shrink?

Cheers

Why do you need a big trunk? I believe only gardeners need it. I usually carry a laptop and a pack of milk.

Well, boys and girls, I've actually driven all of these cars except the Lotus. I love the idea of an Elise, but I can't imagine buying a $42k+ car with a 1.8 litre Toyota engine. Maybe I'm just a snob :) Good luck with the purchase decision, it is definitely a difficult one.

At the end of the day, it came down to Porsche or BMW for me, and though I love the Boxster S and Cayman S, they just were not viscerally thrilling enough for my tastes. Beautifully balanced, quick, but severely overpriced and just not raw enough for my tastes. So as of about 3 hours ago, I am the proud new owner of a 2007 Imola Red M Roadster, all options, Black extended leather, Carbon Black leather trim. Picking it up tomorrow or Wednesday, depending on how soon they can prep it. I am more excited about this car than any of the other 15 BMWs I've had over the last 17 years. My first M car!

Yikes. I just bought a two seat roadster with a trunk the size of a shoebox. :eyecrazy

Anyone have the number for a good shrink?

Cheers

I had similar feelings about getting into a roadster as my daily driver (other than my company car) You only go around once. enjoy it and dont look back! :alright