Hey guys,

I'm looking for suggestions for a shop that can do a PPI around the Bowie, MD/Alexandria, VA area.

I appreciate the help.

Thanks

well bowie and alexandria aren't exactly close...it's about a 40+ min drive

as for alexandria, Martin Motorsports comes to mind immediately

They're close compared to where I am :)

I've gotten the same recommendation from everyone, thanks for the reply and thanks everyone else for the PM's.

I had my PPI done at Martin Motorsports. Gary is a really knowlegable guy and did the whole PPI for no charge knowing that I was in immediate need of a brake job which he then raped me on (in my opinion). He knows the cars in and out but he is definitely a salesman, you can't afford all of his toys if you aren't making a ton of money. He'll try to play the friend card and I suppose it's my fault for not getting an estimate but when pads and rotors came out to $1337.09 I was a bit shocked to say the least.

I had my PPI done at Martin Motorsports. Gary is a really knowlegable guy and did the whole PPI for no charge knowing that I was in immediate need of a brake job which he then raped me on (in my opinion). He knows the cars in and out but he is definitely a salesman, you can't afford all of his toys if you aren't making a ton of money. He'll try to play the friend card and I suppose it's my fault for not getting an estimate but when pads and rotors came out to $1337.09 I was a bit shocked to say the least.

pads and rotors totaled up to $1300!!:eyecrazy next time give RRT a call.

pads and rotors totaled up to $1300!!:eyecrazy next time give RRT a call.

No kidding I could've had a BBK for that. I even went back and asked if he had accidentally charged me twice for the parts because maybe they were priced in pairs rather than individually but he assured me that it was correct.

4.5 hours at 90
2 front brembo rotors at 179.90
2 rear brembo rotors at 154.90
1 front pbr pads at 93.35
1 rear pbr pads at 70.75
2 sensors at 16.50
shop fees and tax wsas 65

needless to say i won't be going back

No kidding I could've had a BBK for that. I even went back and asked if he had accidentally charged me twice for the parts because maybe they were priced in pairs rather than individually but he assured me that it was correct.

4.5 hours at 90
2 front brembo rotors at 179.90
2 rear brembo rotors at 154.90
1 front pbr pads at 93.35
1 rear pbr pads at 70.75
2 sensors at 16.50
shop fees and tax wsas 65

needless to say i won't be going back

Just FYI, that's only $985.40. :D

But still a rip...

Gary seemed like a really cool guy when I've been there. Knowledgeable and willing to answer questions. He's like a big tree of knowledge. You can pick whatever you want from it. :D

Just FYI, that's only $985.40. :D

But still a rip...

Gary seemed like a really cool guy when I've been there. Knowledgeable and willing to answer questions. He's like a big tree of knowledge. You can pick whatever you want from it. :D


Here's how it broke down:

4.5 * 90 = 405
2 * 179.90 = 359.80
2 * 154.90 = 309.80
1 * 93.35 = 93.35
1 * 70.75 = 70.75
2 * 16.50 = 33
21 + 44.39 = 65.39

total: 1337.09

You're right about him knowing his stuff and about seeming nice. He really tries to play it up like he's your buddy which I thought was great, he sent me on my way with a sticker and a hat but that doesn't make up for the fact that he seriously overcharged me. I've heard nothing but good things about RRT and I will be going to them for my suspension refresh shortly. I'm not trying to trash him here I just want people to be aware and ready for it so they don't get caught off guard like I did.

Here's how it broke down:

4.5 * 90 = 405
2 * 179.90 = 359.80
2 * 154.90 = 309.80
1 * 93.35 = 93.35
1 * 70.75 = 70.75
2 * 16.50 = 33
21 + 44.39 = 65.39

total: 1337.09

You're right about him knowing his stuff and about seeming nice. He really tries to play it up like he's your buddy which I thought was great, he sent me on my way with a sticker and a hat but that doesn't make up for the fact that he seriously overcharged me. I've heard nothing but good things about RRT and I will be going to them for my suspension refresh shortly. I'm not trying to trash him here I just want people to be aware and ready for it so they don't get caught off guard like I did.

Yeah, I understand. He does run a business, after all, and I guess after a while you learn how to maximize revenues, so to speak. ;)

RRT is great, but aren't they a little far for you? At least an hour from Arlington, since they're about 45 minutes from me.

Here's how it broke down:

4.5 * 90 = 405
2 * 179.90 = 359.80
2 * 154.90 = 309.80
1 * 93.35 = 93.35
1 * 70.75 = 70.75
2 * 16.50 = 33
21 + 44.39 = 65.39

total: 1337.09

You're right about him knowing his stuff and about seeming nice. He really tries to play it up like he's your buddy which I thought was great, he sent me on my way with a sticker and a hat but that doesn't make up for the fact that he seriously overcharged me. I've heard nothing but good things about RRT and I will be going to them for my suspension refresh shortly. I'm not trying to trash him here I just want people to be aware and ready for it so they don't get caught off guard like I did.

Holy crap that is a expensive!! I replaced my brakes(Brembo rotors, Hawk HPS pads, sensors) in a couple hours and it cost me about $1k less. Sorry to hear about the rape.

Holy crap that is a expensive!! I replaced my brakes(Brembo rotors, Hawk HPS pads, sensors) in a couple hours and it cost me about $1k less. Sorry to hear about the rape.

I lol'd. :lol

Holy crap that is a expensive!! I replaced my brakes(Brembo rotors, Hawk HPS pads, sensors) in a couple hours and it cost me about $1k less. Sorry to hear about the rape.

I did the same thing with Brembos and PBR(for low dust) and it cost me more than $1k less. Start learning to work on your car or you'll be in for a lot of headache. You can't do everything but there are some things most people on here can help you with for free.

I even have an extra set of rear PBRs and it was only $31 for the rear set.

i second the martin vote. good guy.
well bowie and alexandria aren't exactly close...it's about a 40+ min drive

as for alexandria, Martin Motorsports comes to mind immediately

Yeah, I understand. He does run a business, after all, and I guess after a while you learn how to maximize revenues, so to speak. ;)

RRT is great, but aren't they a little far for you? At least an hour from Arlington, since they're about 45 minutes from me.

They are, but I hear great things and the prices seem to be very reasonable. I've also had work done at Alexandria Bavarian and they did good work cheaper than Gary but certainly not cheap. I do what I can myself but living in an apartment makes it tough. I get enough looks when I change my oil in the parking garage, I can't imagine what they'd say if I did a full brake job. I'm open for suggestions to other performance minded shops that do quality work at reasonable prices though.

I did the same thing with Brembos and PBR(for low dust) and it cost me more than $1k less. Start learning to work on your car or you'll be in for a lot of headache. You can't do everything but there are some things most people on here can help you with for free.

I love getting dirty and learning new things and I'm pretty handy with a wrench but space is at a premium as I'm sure you know especially living in DC. If I had a garage it and a place for my tools it'd be another story. Where do you work on your car in DC?

I haven't been able to do much more than change tires and oil since I moved here about a year ago, but thankfully I found RRT. We are lucky to have such a great BMW shop in the area. They do awesome work for a reasonable price....what more could you ask for? I'm sure some of the other local places are good too, but RRT has really impressed me so I'm sticking with them.

The price for the brake job seems extraordinarily high; but, then again, that labor charge seems fairly reasonable (e.g., 1 hour for each side -- which is a little less than book it appears).

Did you go back to Gary and ask him why it was so much? Was it really $180/rotor? Did you get brembo cross-drilled rotors?

Did you not ask for an estimate before having him do the work? I'm not sure why this would come as such a surprise. If Gary told me it would cost $1300 to do a brake job on my car, I would say thanks ... car is going somewhere else.

$90/hr is not an unreasonable rate for labor. The parts charges are expensive -- but, he is not making a huge profit on the parts -- I know this much for a fact. I know what he pays on parts give or take a couple of percentages. So, if you are getting raped -- so is he on the parts.

Then again, there are cheaper places to go. People swear by RRT -- which the people I've interacted with their seem like great guys. There is Dan Martin in Gaithersburg, MD -- but, he is not 'super' cheap either.

The price for the brake job seems extraordinarily high; but, then again, that labor charge seems fairly reasonable (e.g., 1 hour for each side -- which is a little less than book it appears).

Did you go back to Gary and ask him why it was so much? Was it really $180/rotor? Did you get brembo cross-drilled rotors?

Did you not ask for an estimate before having him do the work? I'm not sure why this would come as such a surprise. If Gary told me it would cost $1300 to do a brake job on my car, I would say thanks ... car is going somewhere else.

$90/hr is not an unreasonable rate for labor. The parts charges are expensive -- but, he is not making a huge profit on the parts -- I know this much for a fact. I know what he pays on parts give or take a couple of percentages. So, if you are getting raped -- so is he on the parts.

Then again, there are cheaper places to go. People swear by RRT -- which the people I've interacted with their seem like great guys. There is Dan Martin in Gaithersburg, MD -- but, he is not 'super' cheap either.

I did not ask for an estimate. I felt obligated to work with him since he had done my PPI and said he would not charge me because he knew I needed brakes and that he would take care of me. I know this is my fault, I should have realized that business is business but I didn't. The rotors are not cross drilled or slotted, they are just standard brembo rotors.

I love getting dirty and learning new things and I'm pretty handy with a wrench but space is at a premium as I'm sure you know especially living in DC. If I had a garage it and a place for my tools it'd be another story. Where do you work on your car in DC?

I have used Einstein's (Gary) in College Park, I have used Dan Martin in Gaithersburg. My E30 was worked on at Alexandria Bavarian most of its life. My best experience so far was at RRT. Matt, the guy at the front is helpful and their prices have been the lowest.

I live up on 16th Street NW near Carter Baron, and I'm lucky to have a two car garage to work in. My hooptie usually occupies the other spot but I move it if I need to. I understand your frustration in not having a place to work on your car. When I lived in Georgetown, I couldn't even change my oil.

I did not ask for an estimate. I felt obligated to work with him since he had done my PPI and said he would not charge me because he knew I needed brakes and that he would take care of me. I know this is my fault, I should have realized that business is business but I didn't. The rotors are not cross drilled or slotted, they are just standard brembo rotors.

Again, did you talk to Gary about the bill and ask him why it was so high??

I would try talking with Gary again, I am almost positive that he probably charged you DOUBLE than he should for those brembo rotors then. The brembo rotors should be around $180 for two MAX. They should not cost $170 each. I would use this as a reference:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/subcategory_detail.asp?modelcode=E36&subcat_id=120

Turner is probably one of the more expensive places to buy rotors from and I am pretty sure Gary is affiliated with them and can buy from them. Fronts would cost $140 and rears would cost $135. So, that's $270 for all four rotors. There are other places that are even cheaper. That would save you $400 from your bill at least. Brembo 'might' be a bit higher; but, I think they are $99/each from Bimmerworld, or places like that.

Then, I would ask him why everything cost so much. Show him this link

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/subcategory_detail.asp?modelcode=E36&subcat_id=134

The entire package, even if you upgraded the rotors, or got Axxis ultimates, would still be around $440.00 -- assuming you are using OEM parts. Labor at 90x4.5 should equal at most around $800 which is about what most places would charge for a brake change.

I think something is wrong with your bill. If you need me to come and talk with Gary with you, I will. Please feel free to use my name: James. Tell him that it appears the bill might be incorrect based on what you have told us.
The cost of 2 front rotors should be around $140 and 2 rear rotors around $135 - OEM (not sure if Brembo is that much more expensive). Plus, if it is a package deal -- the packages cost about $440 from turner motorsports that are complete -- AND, they include everything that you need, including brake fluid.

So, just be nice and say, hey look, something looks wacky here. Tell him the bill appears it should be reduced by at least $500, if not more. Also, ask for a discount since he made an error. Tell him, although you appreciate receiving the PPI for free, getting a bill like this is a bit disconcerting since it appears that he tried to make the money back. A PPI should only cost about $120.

So, for $800, that would be reasonable in my opinion for the brake job if he was giving you the PPI for free. Something's wrong though -- it has to be. I know Gary, and, I know he's a salesman and can charge a lot; but, he's not a con artist. The only way it would cost this much is if BMW of Fairfax is charging him this much for rotors. He gets most of his parts from BMW of Fairfax.

I second what James stated.

Gary will correct whatever is wrong, in my experience. Just talk to him about it... dont get aggressive or offensive. He's more than reasonable and, again, in my experience, is willing to go to great lengths to keep his customers happy.

Return business is the key in this industry (especially for those of us who are visiting every 60 days to install a new toy) and he should be wanting to earn yours.

I second what James stated.

Gary will correct whatever is wrong, in my experience. Just talk to him about it... dont get aggressive or offensive. He's more than reasonable and, again, in my experience, is willing to go to great lengths to keep his customers happy.

Return business is the key in this industry (especially for those of us who are visiting every 60 days to install a new toy) and he should be wanting to earn yours.

+1.

Something isn't right here. :shifty

Again, did you talk to Gary about the bill and ask him why it was so high??

I would try talking with Gary again, I am almost positive that he probably charged you DOUBLE than he should for those brembo rotors then. The brembo rotors should be around $180 for two MAX. They should not cost $170 each. I would use this as a reference:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/subcategory_detail.asp?modelcode=E36&subcat_id=120

Turner is probably one of the more expensive places to buy rotors from and I am pretty sure Gary is affiliated with them and can buy from them. Fronts would cost $140 and rears would cost $135. So, that's $270 for all four rotors. There are other places that are even cheaper. That would save you $400 from your bill at least. Brembo 'might' be a bit higher; but, I think they are $99/each from Bimmerworld, or places like that.

Then, I would ask him why everything cost so much. Show him this link

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/subcategory_detail.asp?modelcode=E36&subcat_id=134

The entire package, even if you upgraded the rotors, or got Axxis ultimates, would still be around $440.00 -- assuming you are using OEM parts. Labor at 90x4.5 should equal at most around $800 which is about what most places would charge for a brake change.

I think something is wrong with your bill. If you need me to come and talk with Gary with you, I will. Please feel free to use my name: James. Tell him that it appears the bill might be incorrect based on what you have told us.
The cost of 2 front rotors should be around $140 and 2 rear rotors around $135 - OEM (not sure if Brembo is that much more expensive). Plus, if it is a package deal -- the packages cost about $440 from turner motorsports that are complete -- AND, they include everything that you need, including brake fluid.

So, just be nice and say, hey look, something looks wacky here. Tell him the bill appears it should be reduced by at least $500, if not more. Also, ask for a discount since he made an error. Tell him, although you appreciate receiving the PPI for free, getting a bill like this is a bit disconcerting since it appears that he tried to make the money back. A PPI should only cost about $120.

So, for $800, that would be reasonable in my opinion for the brake job if he was giving you the PPI for free. Something's wrong though -- it has to be. I know Gary, and, I know he's a salesman and can charge a lot; but, he's not a con artist. The only way it would cost this much is if BMW of Fairfax is charging him this much for rotors. He gets most of his parts from BMW of Fairfax.

I appreciate all of the input you guys have given. I did go back to the shop the day after the work was done and asked about the numbers because as you said it looks like something was wrong. I mentioned it above as well but, it would make perfect sense if he charged me 2x for a pair of rotors on both the front and rear when it should have been 1x for each pair. I asked him and he assured me that there was no mistake and that the parts were just that expensive. He offered to show me his invoice but at that point I knew nothing was going to change and he had other customers in the shop. I just decided my business would go elsewhere from now on.

RRT has always gotten me parts at prices lower than the dealership which was partially why i was recommending them. what James said was really the best way to handle it. it just sucks that you couldn't get his advice before you went back the first time.

RRT ftw also Dan Martin in Gaithersburg, MD is a really good guy ! he gave me some awsome advice for my 2002. really knows his cars