yeah thats right, for those of you who havnt heard Jaun Pablo Montoya, former mercedes f1 driver, and future ferrari(?) f1 driver, ran his first race as a nascar driver today. what the heck happened? why did he go for from best racing leauge in the world to the ultimate suck? anybody know?

im kinda pissed and to be honest i hope he was really bored running at the back of the pack, turning left, for 4 hours!

yeah thats right, for those of you who havnt heard Jaun Pablo Montoya, former mercedes f1 driver, and future ferrari(?) f1 driver, ran his first race as a nascar driver today. what the heck happened? why did he go for from best racing leauge in the world to the ultimate suck? anybody know?

im kinda pissed and to be honest i hope he was really bored running at the back of the pack, turning left, for 4 hours!

You're about 8 months late to the party. Juan's already run 4-5 ARCA races, a handful of Busch races, and ran his second Nextel cup race today.

He got tired of dealing with the BS in F1, and wanted to actually race.

-Charlie

The Money.
/thread

wow really? i feel like an idiot...

He got tired of dealing with the BS in F1, and wanted to actually race.

Don't kid yourself nascar isnt racing...

The Money.
/thread

Bingo.

He sucked at F1 anyways.

Bingo.

He sucked at F1 anyways.

Sure, they just give away wins in F1, 7 victories in a car that isn't red is child's play. Winning the CART championship back when it was a series with more than two drivers was also purely a fluke, as was the I500.

Great race today, Juan got shuffled back after some setup issues, but managed to hang on and stay in the top twenty. He led about 30 laps in the qualifying race on Thursday, so he's getting the hang of it. Ganassi isn't one of the top tier teams in Nascar, but he's managed to do allright so far.

-Charlie

i think hes definatly a good driver but he should use his talents in a real racing league.

just wait for the road courses. he should do pretty well when one of those come along.

i think hes definatly a good driver but he should use his talents in a real racing league.

43 car fields with 60+ cars attempting to qualify. An 8 car factory backed operation from Toyota, factory support from 4 major automotive manufacturers. Teams like Roush, Hendrick, Gibbs, RCR, Evernham, Ganassi, etc have F1 level budgets, we're talking 150-200 million/year budgets. Team Red Bull is run out of the same stable as their F1 operations, and they weren't even able to qualify for the 500. The amount of money and driver talent in Nascar right now rivals, and even exceeds F1 in many levels.

-Charlie

43 car fields with 60+ cars attempting to qualify. An 8 car factory backed operation from Toyota, factory support from 4 major automotive manufacturers. Teams like Roush, Hendrick, Gibbs, RCR, Evernham, Ganassi, etc have F1 level budgets, we're talking 150-200 million/year budgets. Team Red Bull is run out of the same stable as their F1 operations, and they weren't even able to qualify for the 500. The amount of money and driver talent in Nascar right now rivals, and even exceeds F1 in many levels.

-Charlie

i dont think the statistics are his point. Probably a little something to do with road racing (ie left AND right turns) vs. ovals.

Keep in mind that those budgets are also for a season that is almost 3 times as long as the F1 season.

i dont think the statistics are his point. Probably a little something to do with road racing (ie left AND right turns) vs. ovals.



Given that Montoya is going to be running both the Nextel cup as well as most of the Busch season, he's going to be running at the Circuit Hermanos Rodriguez, Sears Point, Circuit Gilles Villenueve and twice at Watkins Glen, that's 5 road course races right there. Most of the "big name" Cup guys run all of these, that's a fair bit of diversity for an "oval" series.

-Charlie

Hey congrats to the man who gets PAID to drive... who cares in what league.... thats just sweet.

Hey congrats to the man who gets PAID to drive... who cares in what league.... thats just sweet.
+1

Hey, don't forget a man who has spent a lot of seat time in a BMW, Mr. Said.

Go BORIS!!!!!!!!!

He did not go for the money....He went because there was no longer an offer to drive F1.

He made $14million his last year in F1. I believe the highest paid NASCAR driver gets about $5million.

He did not go for the money....He went because there was no longer an offer to drive F1.

He made $14million his last year in F1. I believe the highest paid NASCAR driver gets about $5million.

Yep, $14 million was only his salary from driving. This didn't include the endorsement deals he had plus side gigs.

Flabbio (yes, I know it's Flavio) talked about the possibility of him becoming available in the latest issue of Racer. Other than that, there were only a few other teams showing interest and none of them were front runners.

Dat
Hook 'Em!

He did not go for the money....He went because there was no longer an offer to drive F1.

He made $14million his last year in F1. I believe the highest paid NASCAR driver gets about $5million.

He got offers but they were from midfield teams, like Redbull. Frankly I think Redbull would have been a good bet since Adrian Newey is now on board but you can tell he really hates F1 politics.

+1

Hey, don't forget a man who has spent a lot of seat time in a BMW, Mr. Said.

Go BORIS!!!!!!!!!


+1

Go Boris, finish 14th in a VERY strong field!

Good to see nobody makes snap judgements based upon only one race in the 2007 season. :rolleyes

yeah thats right, for those of you who havnt heard Jaun Pablo Montoya, former mercedes f1 driver, and future ferrari(?) f1 driver, ran his first race as a nascar driver today. what the heck happened? why did he go for from best racing leauge in the world to the ultimate suck? anybody know?

im kinda pissed and to be honest i hope he was really bored running at the back of the pack, turning left, for 4 hours!

Because stock cars are alot different to drive then road coarse style open wheeled cars.

If you mess your enterance to anyone of the corners by 1 foot. That can through off your exit of a corner/getting loose and push up the track. Allowing a good amount of cars by.

I love it when all the retards post in the Pro Motorsports section :rofl

I love it when all the retards post in the Pro Motorsports section :rofl

It reminds me of a topic that always seems to pop up on the college sports board that I frequent: "Is NASCAR/Auto Racing a sport?" At that point, an endless spiral of discussion between a lot of folks with absolutely no frame of reference begins while I try to interject some actuals facts and experience into the discussion.

It reminds me of a topic that always seems to pop up on the college sports board that I frequent: "Is NASCAR/Auto Racing a sport?" At that point, an endless spiral of discussion between a lot of folks with absolutely no frame of reference begins while I try to interject some actuals facts and experience into the discussion.

a brilliant man once said that "There are only three sports; car racing, bull fighting and mountain climbing. The rest are mere games."

+1

Go Boris, finish 14th in a VERY strong field!
I know, 14th, way to go! I would love to see a road course win this season, he's been soooo close.

an endless spiral of discussion between a lot of folks with absolutely no frame of reference begins while I try to interject some actuals facts and experience into the discussion. Got to love the internet. When I used to work for a "stealer" (:rolleyes still hate that term) I loved reading all the mis-information on the boards.
"well, my friend's brother washes cars at a dealer, and he said......."
When I actually investigated or knew the CORRECT answer, I was shot down like, who are you?
Sorry, I guess my nine years in BMW Parts, access to BMW employee only information, countless contacts at BMW NA mean nothing.

Oh well......about JPM and Boris......

JPM had a good race from what I saw. Apart from the rookie mistake of overshooting his pit box. That put him a lap down and also caused him to loose 1st and 2nd.

He was so close to every big wreck that i'm sure he was just glad to get to the end of the race.

The Money.
/thread

He took a pay cut from what I can tell and the sources I have read and seen. Sportscenter even said that with his deals with F1 and sponsers. It may have been a significant cut.

Given that Montoya is going to be running both the Nextel cup as well as most of the Busch season, he's going to be running at the Circuit Hermanos Rodriguez, Sears Point, Circuit Gilles Villenueve and twice at Watkins Glen, that's 5 road course races right there. Most of the "big name" Cup guys run all of these, that's a fair bit of diversity for an "oval" series.

-Charlie

5 races out of over 50 races he will run this season. Look, im not trying to argue, I watched 75% of the race yesterday by choice. I'm saying that the people who hate NASCAR argue because they feel there is a certain lack of skill since 90%+ of the races are left turn only. I know that there are a number of very talented drivers in NASCAR, I think Jeff Gordon proved that when he ran competitive lap times in the BMW F1 car at Indy.

JPM and Boris did not do anywhere near bad on the 500. Just because they didnt finish in 1st place doesnt mean anything. The Daytona 500 is a very tough race specially when taking into account the drafting value of it all. You can be in 1st place on lap and before the next one is over, you can get a train run on you and be back in 15th just like that. Point is, most of the time you have to be very quick, safe, reserved until the last possible moment, and have a ton of luck as well. Nascar has a lot more factors that play into the outcome of a race other than pit strategy (F1).

Many of these Nascar drivers have been at it for a LOT longer than Boris and JPM (in their respective fields) and for them to finish where they did....is a testament to their skill and their place in Nascar if there is one.

Nascar drivers road race all of the time and do very well. F1 drivers coming to Nascar is about their bordom with road racing more then anything else. Driving 3 wide at 180 mph around turn 4 surrounded by 8 cars is a hell of alot more tense then anything JPM would find in F1. Where else can you have the top 25 cars within 1.5 seconds of eachother? Its a new challenge and it looks like he is up to it. I aplaud his finish. I am extremely happy for both Boris and JPM finishing in the top half of the field ahead of alot of big names.....especially with 2nd tier teams.

Exactly my point, thanks.

Also, of a side note, Michael Schumacher being offered a Nascar test???? read this in F1live.com a few days ago....i laughed because i could never picture Schumy driving a 3,250 pound car

I saw the interview before the race, and I could tell JPM was having fun, and very happy to be there surrounded by his family ( did you see his son with the helmet on? just like my little one).
Money or not, I think he's happier in NASCAR, and he's got lots of talent, it takes sometime to get used to drive a 3,300lbs car, specially when you spent your entire life driving open-wheel cars.
I'll watch more NASCAR this year because of him.

a brilliant man once said that "There are only three sports; car racing, bull fighting and mountain climbing. The rest are mere games."

LOL, I used to use that line too until another smart person reminded me that Hemingway's only criteria for defining "sport" was that you had to have at least a 90% chance of injury or death while doing it....:D

I wonder if Hemingway ever added "fishing for Marlin in a skiff" (Old Man and the Sea) to his list of sports?

LOL, I used to use that line too until another smart person reminded me that Hemingway's only criteria for defining "sport" was that you had to have at least a 90% chance of injury or death while doing it....:D

that is y i use this quote.

money and driver talent in Nascar right now rivals, and even exceeds F1 in many levels

I think Toyota and Ferrari spend well north of $200 million per team each year so not so sure about that. I would say there are maybe 10-15 NASCAR drivers that could possibly do well at F1 but not the 50+ year old guys that are still running Cup cars.

Nascar drivers road race all of the time and do very well. F1 drivers coming to Nascar is about their bordom with road racing more then anything else. Driving 3 wide at 180 mph around turn 4 surrounded by 8 cars is a hell of alot more tense then anything JPM would find in F1. Where else can you have the top 25 cars within 1.5 seconds of eachother?

Boredom? They go where the money is pure and simple. While the 3 wide thing may be intense in a car, it isn't on the tube. I really tried to watch this race and just couldn't sit there for three hours. Plus, do they really need 2+ hours of pre-race with a giant red/white/blue "Liberty" flag pulled out. Jaysus. I kept flicking back to other channels until the bloody race started. I do understand they are at the limit etc. but the race is too long and the fact they are all 1.5 seconds apart and the way you can get caught in the wrong row and lose 10 spots has to raise the question "why watch the whole race?"

As for 3-wide at 180mph being more intense than F1, JPM pulled off a few passes in corners at 160mph+ where you are both headed for the same apex.

As I said to somebody on another list, I don't particularly think F1 races are that exciting either but the in-car shots alone make them better than NASCAR in my book. Honestly, I would rather watch a German/British Touring Car race or World Challenge race than almost any other car racing. Short races, lots of cars, evenly matched cars and constant dive-bomb braking and stealing apexes.

So, I have promised myself I will try to watch some short-track NASCAR racing this year and see if I like it better. The super speedway stuff is just not interesting.

Exactly my point, thanks.

Also, of a side note, Michael Schumacher being offered a Nascar test???? read this in F1live.com a few days ago....i laughed because i could never picture Schumy driving a 3,250 pound car

I saw the interview before the race, and I could tell JPM was having fun, and very happy to be there surrounded by his family ( did you see his son with the helmet on? just like my little one).
Money or not, I think he's happier in NASCAR, and he's got lots of talent, it takes sometime to get used to drive a 3,300lbs car, specially when you spent your entire life driving open-wheel cars.
I'll watch more NASCAR this year because of him.


Try at least 3600lb with driver/fuel...

ive talked to many NASCAR fans and race car drivers and most come to the same conclusion that open wheel racing is just that much more insane than closed wheel cars.

JPM will do just fine at NASCAR. He'll get used to the differences in the cars and the closeness of the running. He has a chance to win if his team doesn't let him down. Unfortunately Boris never got a great ride - he's always had the number 3 or 4 car on the team.

43 car fields with 60+ cars attempting to qualify. An 8 car factory backed operation from Toyota, factory support from 4 major automotive manufacturers. Teams like Roush, Hendrick, Gibbs, RCR, Evernham, Ganassi, etc have F1 level budgets, we're talking 150-200 million/year budgets. Team Red Bull is run out of the same stable as their F1 operations, and they weren't even able to qualify for the 500. The amount of money and driver talent in Nascar right now rivals, and even exceeds F1 in many levels.

-Charlie

All that money, and the cars are still boring and so are the tracks!

All that money, and the cars are still boring and so are the tracks!

That is piss poor money. Do not listen to Charlie. He has very few facts in his posts. Roush asked for about 11-15million to sponser #99 Burtons car. (this was a few years ago)

So even if NASCAR had the 100-200million budget Charlie claimed....

Let's look at say Williams F1 budget

Engine Budget: 185million
Operating test budget:48million
Salaries: 24million
Operating races budget: 20.8million
R&D: 20.3million
Driver Salaries: 20million
Wind Tunnel tests: 12.2million
Travel Costs: 9.3million
Corporate Entertainment and catering: 12.2million (Yes this figure is right)
Car Manufacturing: 1.5million

(these figures are not perfect nor are they recent, circa 2003)

So, next time anyone talks about NASCAR having F1 Budgets..... :rolleyes

For the record, Toyota spent $498 Million in F1 last year. That's approx $249 MILLION per car. The top NASCAR budgets run in the $20 million range per car. The average is in the $10-15 million dollar range.

For the record, Toyota spent $498 Million in F1 last year. That's approx $249 MILLION per car. The top NASCAR budgets run in the $20 million range per car. The average is in the $10-15 million dollar range.

20 million is a mid-low end team in Nextel cup. Look up what Roush, Childress, Evernham and crew are claiming for "per car" budgets, the figure is closer to 50 million. Figure that Roush is a 5 car operation, Evernham is 4, Childress is 3, etc, and you see where the money adds up. These teams also have matching Busch operations at nearly the same budget outlay.

-Charlie

20 million is a mid-low end team in Nextel cup. Look up what Roush, Childress, Evernham and crew are claiming for "per car" budgets, the figure is closer to 50 million. Figure that Roush is a 5 car operation, Evernham is 4, Childress is 3, etc, and you see where the money adds up. These teams also have matching Busch operations at nearly the same budget outlay.

-Charlie

Why are you still trying to defend yourself? Seriously?

Why are you still trying to defend yourself? Seriously?

Got some anger issues there kiddo?

-Charlie

Got some anger issues there kiddo?

-Charlie

Not at all, Chuck. Have a good day, bud :embarrasm

that still makes F1 spend more money per car per race. F1 budgets r insane compared to all other forms of racing, any way u slice it. if u were to include all the other series that F1 manufacturers and engine builders r involved in, it would be a huge number.

This "budget" argument is the stupidest thing ever. If you can not agree that an F1 team spends more money than a NASCAR team then you clearly have no knowledge about racing. Christ, hospitality and entertaining budgets for any F1 team is just simply mind blowing.

This "budget" argument is the stupidest thing ever. If you can not agree that an F1 team spends more money than a NASCAR team then you clearly have no knowledge about racing. Christ, hospitality and entertaining budgets for any F1 team is just simply mind blowing.

Who's saying that F1 doesn't spend more?

-Charlie

This "budget" argument is the stupidest thing ever. If you can not agree that an F1 team spends more money than a NASCAR team then you clearly have no knowledge about racing. Christ, hospitality and entertaining budgets for any F1 team is just simply mind blowing.

How is the "budget" argument even relevent?

the relevance of the argument is due to the current dispute of some members, needless to say its quite irrelevant to the subject of the thread.

but hey, since when do threads stay on topic (at least most of the time anyways?).

JPM needs time and experience, something of which he will gain plenty of this rookie full season in Cup. His finishing spot in the 500 should have put to shame those who criticized JPM so harshly. Look at those who didnt even qualify for the 500, much less those who didnt finish, didnt stay out of trouble, etc etc. JPM (also Boris) receive my thumbs up.

time will tell if they will win

the relevance of the argument is due to the current dispute of some members, needless to say its quite irrelevant to the subject of the thread.

but hey, since when do threads stay on topic (at least most of the time anyways?).

JPM needs time and experience, something of which he will gain plenty of this rookie full season in Cup. His finishing spot in the 500 should have put to shame those who criticized JPM so harshly. Look at those who didnt even qualify for the 500, much less those who didnt finish, didnt stay out of trouble, etc etc. JPM (also Boris) receive my thumbs up.

time will tell if they will win

JPM could finish 5th and he would still be blasted by the naysayers. 'How could an F1 driver not finish first in such a mindless and easy form form of racing such as NASCAR?'

JPM probably isn't in the good ol' boy network yet. IIRC, informal and impromptu "teamwork", even between teams, is necessary to finish at the top. NASCAR is a lot like cycling in that regard; everyone is jockying for position for a couple hours in an effort to set up for a sprint to the finish.

JPM could finish 5th and he would still be blasted by the naysayers. 'How could an F1 driver not finish first in such a mindless and easy form form of racing such as NASCAR?'

JPM probably isn't in the good ol' boy network yet. IIRC, informal and impromptu "teamwork", even between teams, is necessary to finish at the top. NASCAR is a lot like cycling in that regard; everyone is jockying for position for a couple hours in an effort to set up for a sprint to the finish.

your last sentence is in my opinion EXACTLY what Nascar is all about.

knowing Jpm, this is a funny thread

knowing Jpm, this is a funny thread

How so?

Yes, please enlighten.