First of all I almost died. He was messing with me and came around this turn (which when warm I can punch it in second and it sticks) I punched it and the back end flew out and I saw my tail lights. I almost hit a large curb before I got her back on track again. At the next light he pulled up and I gave him the DR. evil pinky. He said you almost bit it and then proceded to tell me how fast his car was. I got next to him in second gear and let him punch it. I pulled by him like nothing :buttrock. We went through a few lights and :pullover 5.0 pulls out with the lights on. just as we pass the next light some guy pulls out of a bank and smashs into this car at the light. the cop stops and I get on the turnpike and fly to my friends house. It was a close one

good run!!

nice! e 28 are beautiful!:clap:

Nice kill. What are the specs on the E28 M5?

wow pretty impressive!

i always liked the older m5's

I have never had it on a dyno. the stock hp is susposed to be 256. I got the car on ebay and it had just had a bunch of engine work done to it. I have no Idea what they did. I just put a chip and a CAI that I made my self. The next step is to put the split second MAF and maybe a NO2 system. Do any of you have pics of a wide body e28. My car has some rust and it must go under the torch. So I was thinking of taking the flares that are there and enhancing them so I can widen my wheel base.

Beautiful car......

I love the old M5. I remember reading the BFG add "what tire do you put on a car that can sustain 150mph?" and thinking that is crazy ie(150mph in a sedan). That ofcourse was before I started learning about BMWs. Be careful buddy, that's a hellova car ya got there.

Umm... ek, regarding "widening your wheel base"... that's kinda impossible. You're talking about track. In order to widen your track, you have to work with spacers or do some serious suspension work. It's not just about the body. On another note, what do you mean by "We went through a few lights?" Please tell me they weren't red, or else I'm gonna be pretty mad at your reckless disregard of others' safety.

"Dr. Evil Pinky" = :laugh

No, they were all green as grass. Oh, and sorry I did mean track. Yes, I want to use the widest spacers that they have. However, if I did that now it would not look right. I am going to put on the wheel spacer and build it around them. just a buldge like on the e46 m3 and maybe incorperate it into the front airdam. or maybe like this M1

Nice run - where in PA are you located?

jenkintown

ARE YOU SURE THIS HAPPENED? I'VE NEVER THOUGHT AN OLD M5, NO MATTER WHAT MODS, COULD TOUCH THOSE S4'S. IF THAT S4 WAS EVEN CHIPPED ALONE YOU'D GET WAXED. mY 97 SC M3 LOST TO ONE HANDS DOWN. JUST WONDERING THATS ALL, NO PLAYER HATING.

please hit the CAPS button....no need to yell...hehe...

S4's are boats, I "thought" they were around 3500-3800 lbs. I'm not sure which one is correct, I thought my friend said 3800 lbs, but I see people posting 3550??? -- in stock form, not sure what they could do, but, that's a pretty damn heavy car........

your s/c'ed M3 should have been even with a chipped/exhaust S4, or even pulling on it slightly -- maybe you had a bad day. Most s/c'ed people run 6-7 lbs at least....besides, the 320 hp that people always throw around I'm pretty sure means crankpower ....not at the wheels...plus the S4 has greater parasitic drivetrain loss as well... So, with 320 at the crank, a boosted bimmer should easily be able to hold its own...poor driver or not....

I've gone against a couple of friends here with S4's (chip/exhaust/downpipe) and can walk on them .... I'm sure against a stock S4...it would be a raping....

Originally posted by BMWSLAYER
ARE YOU SURE THIS HAPPENED? I'VE NEVER THOUGHT AN OLD M5, NO MATTER WHAT MODS, COULD TOUCH THOSE S4'S. IF THAT S4 WAS EVEN CHIPPED ALONE YOU'D GET WAXED. mY 97 SC M3 LOST TO ONE HANDS DOWN. JUST WONDERING THATS ALL, NO PLAYER HATING.

Sounds like a pissed off S4 driver to me!!!:dunno Nice first post too:D You must suck @ driving if you lost hands down with a supercharged M3. Hands Down is a pretty bold statement.

Oh ya, think that this one might have the edge on a slow S4 too;)

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64757&highlight=e28%2A

There is no way you have walked on a chipped S4 much less one that has downpipes. I don't suck at driving, rather it is admitting defeat when it happens. It's called being an adult and a man. Try again.

Lol ...

stock S4 (B5 chassis) vs. E36 M3 = driver's skill determines who wins

stock S4 v. E28 M5 = E28 M5 should win (more hp and more tq??)

Chipped S4's -- if you want to talk APR, GIAC, MTM, etc...maybe around 310-320 CRANK. Adding the downpipes MAYBE 340-350 CRANK HP.

The S4's are no joke and fast as hell -- but they are really nothing special to a supercharged bimmer; but, I thought they experience around 30% drivetrain loss...EVEN if you take 20% as being optimal...you still only have a 240-260 rwhp vehicle. Plus, it's heavy as hell....a good 300 lbs heavier at least than the E36.

Not sure what APR stage III entails, or the K04, etc...can put down; but, there are not many people running with the K04 upgrade...most with a chip....MTM or GIAC, or even autothority, neuspeed, etc.

So, if you are force inducted and you call yourself a good driver -- you would win against a chipped S4 -- PERIOD/hands down/end of story

Trolly trolly trolly trolly trolly *in that Austin Powers voice* trolly trolly trolly trolly trolly trolly trolly trolly.

I witnessed one of those chipped S4's rated at 320 hp with the exhaust, etc, race a Firehawk and lose by about 7-8 car lengths by 0-100 mph.

I guess I could be wrong about the 7-8 car lengths, being as I was about 3-4 car lengths ahead of the Firehawk myself... :evil2

That driver must of been unskilled to say the least. They are my competition but I have to give credit where credit is due. Either the Firehawk had mods but even if you were ahead I'd have to say both drivers sucked pretty badly. Not that you car isn't fast but come on. 7-8 car lengths to only 100 mph? Have you run up against a z06? The S4 is probably around 320 at the crank, not the wheels.

I know. And yes, I've raced Z06's 9 times so far, 7 of those at the track, and I'm 9-0 so far... :evil2

Next, 70 bhp will not make the S4 competition for the Firehawk, try as it might. Every S4 I've come across, even the ones with 380 bhp just ain't all that. Nice cars, but heavy...

I agree these cars are set up different, but against an old M5, wouldn't you say the S would have a clear advantage? I know of a guy that raced a new M5 and beat it until 110 mph when they had too shut it down. Nice car BTW.

Well, if the old M5 has 256 crank hp at 17% loss = around 212 rwhp. Plus adding the chip/CAI = 220 rwhp maybe.

The S4 let's say has 320 crank hp = 27% loss (yes, my friend said 27% would be a CONSERVATIVE drivetrain loss estimate) = 233.6 rwhp (that's conservative to, most will argue 30% or even 32% loss). Factor in the weight of the car in a race as well....

If the S4 is stock, 250 crank hp = 27% loss = 182.5 rwhp = significantly less than many cars...

E28 should end up ahead.....maybe above 100+ will get reeled in slowly......

I mean, even a stage III (apr/KO4'ed S4) is rated around 415 CRANK hp.

415 crank hp = 27% loss = around 302.5 rwhp (being conservative again).

Thus, most supercharged bimmers would not have problems until they meet a KO4 upgraded S4....even then, it should not pose that much of a problem b/c the nod goes to an E36 supercharged M3 b/c of the weight......

Hopefully that explains why there is NO WAY IN hell...a supercharged M3 would get smoked....MAYBE, MAYBE you would get beat with a STAGE III tuned S4. But, a normal S4 with a chip, no way, you should NOT lose.....you would lose only if you are misshifting, etc..or not properly tuned....Even a stage I s/c'ed M3 should have around 300 rwhp....which a chipped/exhaust/downpipe S4 could not handle......

P.S. -- not player hating at all, I like the S4 alot....but, S4's to beat a force-inducted bimmer, has to be packing some serious punch besides a chip/exhaust combo....

I wish I had the linked that showed an KO4'd S4 trounce, and I mean trounce a new Z06. And like I said an E36 SC will loose to a S4 thats only chipped and exhaust. It happened to me and another cat in Minneapolis who raced his friends MTM Stg 2 S4. By the way, what does that old M5 weigh? You should launch in an S4, I think you'd forget the old "weight" issue quickly.

BMWSLAYER -

I'VE NEVER THOUGHT AN OLD M5, NO MATTER WHAT MODS, COULD TOUCH THOSE S4'S

You never answered my responce. It looks like you were wrong??:biglaughb

You should launch in an S4, I think you'd forget the old "weight" issue quickly.

Hmmm, I thought they they were very sluggish off the line?? I have a friend who has one and complains about it all the time. The car is just too heavy. Don't have any personal experiance but trust my friend a little.

I know of a guy that raced a new M5 and beat it until 110 mph when they had too shut it down

I would like to see that. I find it a little hard to believe if the M5 was pushing it. Sorry but that car goes to 60 in under 5 sec and shines over 100. The Audi stock is what a 5.6 to 60 car? You add X horsepower and you are about the same?? Dunno, maybe gearing??

That driver must of been unskilled to say the least

:laugh :biglaughb :laugh Thanks for the laugh!!!

I have messed with 3 different s4's and all three times I pulled right pas in second gear. On the highway my car is king (and I think that is a quote from a mag somewhere) My car pulls the same from 60 to 120 as it does from 0 to 60 and over 120 it still pulls very hard until red line. Let me ask you this. how many e28 m5's have you see? how many have you been in or divinen against. Most people don't even know what my car is and I love it. Also I do believe when my engine was rebuilt different cams were put in because I was in my friends e28 m5 and it does not pull nearly as hard.

The e28 m5 is susposed to weigh 3504 lbs. for some reason the sticker on my car says 3400lbs and I have gon e to means to make it lighter. it also has a spot or two of rust so it keeps getting lighter!

Originally posted by ekdemos
The e28 m5 is susposed to weigh 3504 lbs. for some reason the sticker on my car says 3400lbs and I have gon e to means to make it lighter. it also has a spot or two of rust so it keeps getting lighter!

HAHAHAHAHA :biglaughb :stickoutt that was hilarious!!!

damn.... the M5 is a porker... my 533i barely clears 3100! :D:D:D

the e28 M5 is under rated by alot of people. I was looking at getting one (mostly just fantasy) when shopping for a car and I read a ton of magazine articles, etc. One test that I vaguely remember had all 3 M5 models and a pro race driver or something that said (this is the part I do remember) he would take home the e28 over the e34 and e39. It is definetly a sleeper--VERY few people know these exist and the only thing that gives them away is the M5 badges(which some people think are fake) I test drove one that had 110K mi and was poorly tuned and it was really fast. Wait until 4000 RPM and hold on! Oh and they supposedly respond well to mods too. Nice... :D

E28 M5's rock. Rare too. I think they only came in black/black in the US? One of my partners has an E34 M5, and it is unbelievable, one of few bimmers w/i a reasonable price range that could tear my E36 M3 out of my hands. If I didn't go to the track regularly, I would have gotten an M5.

Slayer, thanks for the compliment on my car- as always, driver is a huge factor in any race...

Many S4 owners around here have problems with bogging, quattro doesn't necessarily mean you will have a sub-2.0 60' time.

Well, perhaps its true in MN, but the people that are force inducted here -- I would hands down put my money on the force-inducted bimmer versus a MTM stg. II. Not b/c I think bimmers are superior...but, b/c I run around with alot of the audi crowd here.....

If you can, I would love to see a video of your supercharged M3 losing to that stage II person. I still have a hard time fathoming it since the M3 even at 6 lbs of boost, should be around 300 rwhp. I've run against S4's chipped with a GIAC, MTM, APR, with exhaust and a downpipe and I've never been blown away by them.

So, it seems a KO'ed S4 can run mid-11's then if it can trounce a Z06, how is that possible? (not trying to flame, maybe you know much more about S4's than I do)....but KO4 S4' kits are only rated for around 415-420 CRANK HP...??

Switch to Audiworld and go to the S4 forum. Post if anyone has the video clip of the S against the Z06. This red S4 trounced the Z06 at two different lights. After 2nd gear the S was pulling away even more. It was sick!

Assuming the Z06 driver was actually racing, or that he could drive at all, launching those V8 low end torque mosters ain't easy...

Launching my Z3 with all the mods at the track is actually easier than it was launching my stock 99 Mustang GT...

He was by all means trying. Lining up at the second light the driver of the 06 was talking to the pass. of the S who had the camera. They checked for cops and cars and as the light changed, they launched. Try to check it out.

hey man nice kill:buttrock

yeah i know what you mean when people dont even know the E28 M5 ever existed...my dad owns an E24 M6 (hella fast, especially with mods)..like...95% of people dont even know what an M6 is

the S38 is a masterpiece:buttrock

Jason, no need to stir the pot. Hehe, just wait until spring...:devillook

It looks like I have 3 Imola's to contend with...: ;)

Nice kill, i love to see some e28 representation

I think we should say "Original M5" rather than old m5.....Because the e28 m5 was the last bmw to be put together by hand.

most US e28 m5's come black/tan or tan/black (tan interior).

S38. It's pretty cool when you have a 15 year old inline-6 with individual TBs. You should really dyno your car to see how much power it's got, because you said it was modded before you bought it. You may have some kind of internal engine work.

Both cars have heritage, advantages, and disadvantages - but all Im seeing is HP figures and 1/4 times.

Im interested in trap speeds - anyone have comparable M3/S4 1/4 times? Id like to see what speeds they cross the line at.

BTW - stock S4 weight = 3618 lbs/1641 kg

I think you ran against a stock S4, or a really heat soaked modded one. In my experience, an S4 with a chip/exhaust can best most E46 M3s, stock WS6s, and similar cars on the street. They can run as good as 12.9 ETs with that level of tune.

As for more powerful S4s, a simple turbo upgrade package does very well. I posted this in an earlier thread:

OK, let's just take a peek at what an S4 can do, shall we?

Exhibit #1, APR Stg3 vs. 405rwhp Camaro:
http://www.ecstuning.com/movies/ECSS4-vr-405hp%20Camero.mpg

Exhibit #2, APR Stg3 0-60mph in 3.81 seconds:
http://www.smalldogstudios.com/60.avi

Exhibit #3, AWE Stg3+ posts 11.92@122mph:
http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/gallery/slvrbullet/awe_slvrbulletS4_20020418.wmv

Exhibit #4, APR Stg3, four people in the car, full tank, pulls on '02 Z06:
http://videos.imolas4.com/zerin/jul_20_02/APRSTG3S4_vs_Z06.wmv

good kill man, i'd take that e28 m5 over an s4 any day of the week. dont mess with the fender flares, i like it the way it is. it might be harder to sell it with extensive body work done to it, but like you would sell it :)

E28s are bueatiful cars, especially the ///M5. im a huge fan of them and yours is simply gorgeous

Thanks I have wanted a e28 m5 since its luanch in 1988. I love the car and I will never get rid of it. I am thinking of getting another one. I have yet to have a car hand it to me on the street or the highway and I have messed with everything from boxters to wrx's
moded wrx is on fast car I only pulled by one car length on it. :dunno

So, I guess my friend was right, about 3800 lbs then, where did that person come up with the 3550 lbs with a full tank???

Hmmm...That's one heavy ass car....if it was 500 lbs lighter, it would be creaming all of our vehicles...

We put my buddies car on a scale that measures both the corner weights and total weight. With him in it at 175 pounds, he weighed in at 3613 pounds. A claim of 3800 is way off.

BTW - stock S4 weight = 3618 lbs/1641 kg

So, this is wrong???

Was the 3613 with a full tank of gas as well??

Hmm..not as bad; but, still pretty heavy.....Why is it so heavy, merely b/c of the quattro?? B/c the bimmers also have the heavy ass iron block as well....

It was a pretty full tank. Basically I think they give up a little of the weight issue for the surefootedness of quattro. I'd have to say it would be nice in Minnesota. I'd think that the weight is all in the rear differential. Kind of like having another tranny. Ever get your winter car yet? j/k.