You'd think that after finally being given the green light to enter the apparent Holy Grail of auto racing :rolleyes , Toyota would be making doubly-sure that any team running their product would have their noses clean.

Guess not.

Link: (you will probably have to register, but it's the LA Times....just register...) http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-motors15feb15,1,6098300.story

After Toyota's antics in CART (spacergate), no one should be surprised to find them cheating. And before anyone says "but, but, but, it was a crew guy, not Toyota"....please....they're responsible when it all comes down to it, fall guys or not.

And yes, everyone does it...witness the 4 penalties handed down to non-Toyota guys just a couple of days ago....of course, those guys weren't trying to gain acceptance from the general public like Toyota is.....

You'd think that after finally being given the green light to enter the apparent Holy Grail of auto racing :rolleyes , Toyota would be making doubly-sure that any team running their product would have their noses clean.

Guess not.

Link: (you will probably have to register, but it's the LA Times....just register...) http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-motors15feb15,1,6098300.story

After Toyota's antics in CART (spacergate), no one should be surprised to find them cheating. And before anyone says "but, but, but, it was a crew guy, not Toyota"....please....they're responsible when it all comes down to it, fall guys or not.

And yes, everyone does it...witness the 4 penalties handed down to non-Toyota guys just a couple of days ago....of course, those guys weren't trying to gain acceptance from the general public like Toyota is.....

The cheating was actually carried out by the driver, not by toyota.

"This is not the action of an organization, a manufacturer or a sponsor," Waltrip said in a statement. "This was an independent act done without consent or authorization from me or any of my executive management team."

http://sports.aol.com/nascar/story/_a/nascar-slams-waltrips-team-for-cheating/20070214175709990001?ecid=RSS0001



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/racing/02/15/waltrip.sorry.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

Umm what is he supposed to say. Doh:eek:

That is all politics my friend. So do you honestly think on the way to the track Michael stops and buys some Techron and behind the whole teams back pours it into the fuel cell? HAHA

I bet every team out there is cheating. If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin.
Cough cough. I mean I build my car to the full extent of the rules and take advantage of every loophole. See how easy that was

Dale

Why else would there be rules made...to be broken of course!

Where else did you think the hundreds of millions from their sponsors go: Cheatengineering department.

I saw that. I also saw that Waltrip was fined 100 drivers points, the team manager was fined 100 team points (or something like that) and Toyota was fined $100,000.

It was the first time something in Nascar had piqued my curiosity since...ever.

Toyota has a pretty checkered past when it comes to cheating in motor racing... F1, WRC, CART, now NASCAR. makes you wonder if it isn't a general toyota way: win at all costs nevermind the rules.

I saw that. I also saw that Waltrip was fined 100 drivers points, the team manager was fined 100 team points (or something like that) and Toyota was fined $100,000.

It was the first time something in Nascar had piqued my curiosity since...ever.

Waltrip was fined 100 points. Waltrip's crew chief was fined $100,000 (not toyota) asked to leave the garage and race and has been suspended indefinately.

Waltrip was fined 100 points. Waltrip's crew chief was fined $100,000 (not toyota) asked to leave the garage and race and has been suspended indefinately.
Okay cool, thanks for the correction.

Im not surprised that they got caught "cheating", and im rather not surprised at all the press being poured out considering this is Toyota's maiden voyage in Nascar. Everyone WITHIN motorsports knows that cheating is an everyday occurance, to some degree or lesser, but its there and its racing. Obviously Toyota feels embarassed and should be, but cmon guys....so what? Everyother team on the grid has one thing or another that would be deemed advantageous if the officials noticed them.

...if im not mistaken, wasn't one of the Waltrip's caught cheating by having "birdshot" within the frame rails that was designed to be let out throughout the course of the races hence lowering the weight of the car=making it faster. Supposedly they got caught because somehow the birdshot got wet and chuncked up as the car came into the pits and was bouncing all over the pits and people and all....

There is blatant cheating like this fuel additive, which I don't think happens often and when caught causes severe penalties, and then there is pushing the rules to the limit type of cheating like the BAR F1 fuel tank saga. Sort of "according to our interpretation of the rules this isn't illegal" thing. That second type of "cheating" probably happens a whole lot more, since if found you have somewhat of a leg to stand on in your defense. Don't you think that secrets aren't all that secret even in motorsport - personnel moves from team to team, other competitors notice and log complaints, etc.

Toyota has a pretty checkered past when it comes to cheating in motor racing... F1, WRC, CART, now NASCAR. makes you wonder if it isn't a general toyota way: win at all costs nevermind the rules.

Was the WRC one, the one where the team had an intake box that magically opened up to allow more air as the car went and got bumped and jerked around?

I laughed at that... what a great way to cheat.

Toyota has a pretty checkered past when it comes to cheating in motor racing... F1, WRC, CART, now NASCAR. makes you wonder if it isn't a general toyota way: win at all costs nevermind the rules.

Toyota is not the only one. Almost all professional teams have the philosophy "win at all costs"

As for the incident - this was really dumb on Toyota's part/Team's part. NASCAR is headquartered in "good ole boys territory" - They are going to be scutinized harder as they enter the sport moreso than Dodge was. NASCAR politics is going to do everything in their power to rig the series to make it difficult for Toyota to win in the first few rounds - this is gonna just add to the obsticles Toyota will face. However, Toyota did dominate Craftsman Truck series so I am pretty positive Toyota will dominate once again.


(It would not surprise me if Toyota Motorsports got a Memo from NASCAR stating they had to do something to disqualify themselves in the first race in order to stay in the series.)

Rumor is that the fuel additive was something really high tech . . . Sterno. You know, the stuff they use to keep chafing dishes warm? Supposedly it serves as an oxidant.

SpeedTV has an article on their website saying that NASCAR will announce what the fuel additive was next week. You can tell they are really coming down on cheaters, because they normally don't announce what specifically someone did that was against the rules. I also heard that outside of the NASCAR trailer at Daytona, they posted a list showing what everyone has gotten busted for this week.

It wasn't Toyota only, but since they are the new kids in the block then it's big news.
Gordon had to start last since his car wasn't "legal" after quali.

Last year Jimmy Johnson's crew chief was cought with a device that raised up the rear window at one of the plate races. That was a crazy infraction and he got less of a penalty than Waltrip got for a fuel additive. The rule book is only the size of a checkbook. Pretty small considering. A couple years back when Evernham was still with Gordon they brought a car to the Winston that was technically legal and kicked everybody's butt. NASCAR took the car at the end of the race went through it and then gave it back and told them to cut it up and never bring anything like that to a race again. Not just don't bring it back but specifically told them to cut it up. Lots of people still wonder what that car was really like under the sheet metal.

I guess we know TRD's real specialty...

I'm sorry but pushing the rules is normal within motorsports. Gray area's are how u win and lose races. Since i've been with Redline doing the Tech inspections we have to deal with the gray area's all the time. I quess toyota took a gamble on a gray area or pushed it a little too far. But hey thats motorsports. They got busted oh well.. Someone else will get caught here shortly doing something else. If they want everything to be equal, give them the car, engine, fuel, tires.. and just make it a driver's battle such as A1GP is. Personally I find that boring. Because one driver gets dailed in and then runs away from everyone else. I say let the teams do what they want as long as it makes my viewing pleasure better.

I'm sorry but pushing the rules is normal within motorsports. Gray area's are how u win and lose races. Since i've been with Redline doing the Tech inspections we have to deal with the gray area's all the time. I quess toyota took a gamble on a gray area or pushed it a little too far.

Ehh...there's "gray area" cheating where a team interprets a rule to allow them to do something while the governing body decides the rule should be interpreted another way and then there's blatant cheating, where the team simply disregards a rule that is perfectly clear. In this case, Toyota blatantly cheated...that is NOT a part of Motorsports.

Ehh...there's "gray area" cheating where a team interprets a rule to allow them to do something while the governing body decides the rule should be interpreted another way and then there's blatant cheating, where the team simply disregards a rule that is perfectly clear. In this case, Toyota blatantly cheated...that is NOT a part of Motorsports.

I agree with that 100%.

The other thing to remember is that failing tech and cheating are not always the same thing. There have been several instances of F1 cars failing post race tech because they were missing the lower jabrock (or whatever it its) when you could see the piece fly off during the race. Some of the cars that failed tech at Daytona were probably cheating, some were probably not.

Toyota is not the only one. Almost all professional teams have the philosophy "win at all costs"

As for the incident - this was really dumb on Toyota's part/Team's part. NASCAR is headquartered in "good ole boys territory" - They are going to be scutinized harder as they enter the sport moreso than Dodge was. NASCAR politics is going to do everything in their power to rig the series to make it difficult for Toyota to win in the first few rounds - this is gonna just add to the obsticles Toyota will face. However, Toyota did dominate Craftsman Truck series so I am pretty positive Toyota will dominate once again.


(It would not surprise me if Toyota Motorsports got a Memo from NASCAR stating they had to do something to disqualify themselves in the first race in order to stay in the series.)

I don't really know what to make of this. My gut feeling is that, if anything, NASCAR will prop up Toyota to make them as competitive as possible, as quickly as possible. NASCAR may be "good ole boys territory", but I'm pretty sure they're right up to date as far as their thirst for money.....and money is what Toyota brings.

Ehh...there's "gray area" cheating where a team interprets a rule to allow them to do something while the governing body decides the rule should be interpreted another way and then there's blatant cheating, where the team simply disregards a rule that is perfectly clear. In this case, Toyota blatantly cheated...that is NOT a part of Motorsports.

After reading more into this I do agree that Toyota was outright cheating. NASCAR sells themselves as for everybody... But money will speak louder then words. Being a former Toyota technicain at a very large dealership Toyota makes money hand over fist on soo many things. They have very deep pockets and spend it at will. I'm not a Nascar fan at all, but do think everyone fears Toyota in Nascar because they have the overall resourse to be a front running team. Given the fact they were the first ones to have "car of tomorrow" that they used for testing. We'll see what Toyota does in the upcoming months. I'm willing to best Toyota either gets the book thrown at them every race or they prove themselves.

I read an article way back when about Toyota cheating in WRC.

http://homepage.virgin.net/shalco.com/tte_ban.htm

It was pure genius but they got caught and banned.

Thanks for that link. Quite amazing the lengths they went to.