Any insight you can share about the motor? Using an M52 crank and boring cylinders? Over square or under square? We need details.....hahaha

How many people are actually competing in B-Mod?

Pretty simple:

M52 with an S52 crank. Evosport works their magic on the crank though to install their Race Bearing Solution - which I think is amazing - and the crank is lightened and treated.

So that gives us a 3 liter. I could have used a 2.8 liter crank, but why? For me, I need as much displacement as possible while still being under 5 liters total calculated displacement. So, 3 liters x 1.5 (forced induction multiplier) = 4.5 liters.

I could actually go up to 3.3 liters but then I would be boring the cylinders out and thats no so good for head gasket sealing under racing conditions.

My buddy Brendan has a e12 B-Mod car, Running a 3.5 liter 2 valve engine. That should be pretty fair competition for John if he ventures to the east coast.Maybe the club wiil get the multipler right in the future or just put non factory FI cars in to super mod, Youre going for overalls anyway so what's the difference.

That being said john's car is one of my favorites,and I really enjoy watching the progress.

-Chris




How many people are actually competing in B-Mod?[/QUOTE]

My buddy Brendan has a e12 B-Mod car, Running a 3.5 liter 2 valve engine. That should be pretty fair competition for John if he ventures to the east coast.Maybe the club wiil get the multipler right in the future or just put non factory FI cars in to super mod, Youre going for overalls anyway so what's the difference.

Sounds like you have been talking to Mike Akard! :)

So, do you rhink your friends E12 B-Mod car would have been a match for my 2 liter turbo car? That's what it would be running up against if the multiplier was 2x? Or what about an E39 M5 motored version of my car? At 4960cc's it would also be in the same class as your friend's E12!! Bottom line is that cars evolve, old racecars become older and competitiveness is not guaranteed.

I think the multiplier is fine where it is. But if dominance begins, then I will be the first to go for the change. FYI, my move to B-Mod should actually reduce the cry for the multiplier to be changed, since B-Mod is little populated.

My buddy Brendan has a e12 B-Mod car, Running a 3.5 liter 2 valve engine. That should be pretty fair competition for John if he ventures to the east coast.Maybe the club wiil get the multipler right in the future or just put non factory FI cars in to super mod, Youre going for overalls anyway so what's the difference.

Come on now Chris...even if you move all of the FI cars to SM, what do you do about all of the E30, E36, and E46 DMod and CMod cars that are also much faster than Brendan's car? Brendan understood the rules when he built the car. I've never heard him complain about the displacement rules causing his very old chassis to have trouble competing in a MOD class when suspensions, engines, weight, and aero are nearly unlimited. Nothing in the rules keeps Brendan from dropping a turbo 3.3 liter into his car, tube framing the front/rear to go to an A-arm suspension, and developing some aero panels to smooth the airflow out over the car if he wanted to 'maximize' his car to the class he's running.

Nothing in the rules keeps Brendan from dropping a turbo 3.3 liter into his car, tube framing the front/rear to go to an A-arm suspension, and developing some aero panels to smooth the airflow out over the car if he wanted to 'maximize' his car to the class he's running.

Now THAT would be cool!!! Love to see it!!

I guess you have not spent much time talking to Brendan? He has said many times and has tried to get the rules changed for all single cam engines. I'll let him fight his own battles though. :)

I personally think that ALL non-factory FI cars should be in Smod or make some sort of classing just for FI cars. I don't think the club should wait till there dominant. At that point it's too late. It WILL make all non-turbo cars obsolete. Maybe not today or this year, but it will happen. I think the club should learn from the past and head off what in my opinion will surely hurt it in the long run.


-Rick



Come on now Chris...even if you move all of the FI cars to SM, what do you do about all of the E30, E36, and E46 DMod and CMod cars that are also much faster than Brendan's car? Brendan understood the rules when he built the car. I've never heard him complain about the displacement rules causing his very old chassis to have trouble competing in a MOD class when suspensions, engines, weight, and aero are nearly unlimited. Nothing in the rules keeps Brendan from dropping a turbo 3.3 liter into his car, tube framing the front/rear to go to an A-arm suspension, and developing some aero panels to smooth the airflow out over the car if he wanted to 'maximize' his car to the class he's running.

I personally think that ALL non-factory FI cars should be in Smod or make some sort of classing just for FI cars. I don't think the club should wait till there dominant. At that point it's too late. It WILL make all non-turbo cars obsolete. Maybe not today or this year, but it will happen. I think the club should learn from the past and head off what in my opinion will surely hurt it in the long run.


-Rick

I think Jon's experience proves the opposite of your point and concern. By his admission he faced significant challenges in getting a reliable, driveable CM car with what looks from here to be an unlimited budget and the best resources. Just because the factory rediscovered turbo charging does not mean the technology has not been available or tried. It may make Mod cars more affordable but I don't see it making them all obsolete.

Of course, I do have a dog in that hunt.

First I'd like to say Chris , Rick, Bryan, and Jon you all have made good pionts and I'm sorry for the off topic disscussion here, so I'll be short, #1 BM is 1.5 liters while most classes are around .5 liters, Why??#2 there have been zero true AM cars .Cars that are actually over 50000 cc #3 the single cam issue ,but at this point I know I am the only one, so it is what it is, Years ago I suggested that single cam motors be put in thier own classes ie m20s in class x and m30 class y, this was when there were still a few around , my crac rep at the time prefered hp to wieght ,so I let him propose his idea and we know were that went.
thanks BD #112 black and Blue

Sounds like you have been talking to Mike Akard! :)



The number is growing Jon! :stickouttLOL

The displacement break for BM and AM is out of place. I strongly believe, especially after discussing it with Steve Olsen, that BM was intended to have an upper limit of 3.999L and have AM be everything above 4L rather than going all the way to 5L. If it were to be changed accordingly, most of the V8s and forced induction cars would be in AM (sort of their own class) battling it out for the overall and still leaving room for additional level of prep in SuperMod. So, why not at least fix that typo and move the displacement limit accordingly? ;)

The number is growing Jon! :stickouttLOL

The displacement break for BM and AM is out of place. I strongly believe, especially after discussing it with Steve Olsen, that BM was intended to have an upper limit of 3.999L and have AM be everything above 4L rather than going all the way to 5L. If it were to be changed accordingly, most of the V8s and forced induction cars would be in AM (sort of their own class) battling it out for the overall and still leaving room for additional level of prep in SuperMod. So, why not at least fix that typo and move the displacement limit accordingly? ;)

Yep - you all have DOUBLED!! :)

I can't understand why the BM limit is 5 liters. Really makes it where there aren't any AM cars except turbo charged V-8's and who would be crazy enough to do that!! :eek::eek:

Yep - you all have DOUBLED!! :)

I can't understand why the BM limit is 5 liters. Really makes it where there aren't any AM cars except turbo charged V-8's and who would be crazy enough to do that!! :eek::eek:

Hey! If you happen to get a chance to talk to that guy that's on the Rules Committee representing the racers.... Ask him to see what he can do to move that limit to 4.0 rather than 5.0 as a mid-season rules change due to oversight or omission! I hear he's an alright kind of guy when you can find him or get through to him somehow! So, maybe we can get this rapidly growing problem solved in short order! ;)

I personally think that ALL non-factory FI cars should be in Smod or make some sort of classing just for FI cars.

All that moving non-factory FI motors to SM does is make the 335 or 135 motor THE motor to have. Guys like Jon won't have much trouble finding a wrecked 335 motor to throw in their car.

Hey! If you happen to get a chance to talk to that guy that's on the Rules Committee representing the racers.... Ask him to see what he can do to move that limit to 4.0 rather than 5.0 as a mid-season rules change due to oversight or omission! I hear he's an alright kind of guy when you can find him or get through to him somehow! So, maybe we can get this rapidly growing problem solved in short order! ;)

We may have to wait a couple of days to see who I should be calling for that one!!!! :)

I can't seem to see the logic in A-mod starting at 5 liters?!?!? But then again, I am not sure anybody would get much support for a mid-year rules change on displacements in the B and A mod classes - and maybe even we would open a whole can of D-Mod worms if we did that. The 4 cylinder DM guys might want their own class! :)

I see your point...Maybe keep with stock size turbos? I don't have the anwsers to this problem, but I do think that it would be hard to line up next to someone with a car in your class that could make close to twice the power.


All that moving non-factory FI motors to SM does is make the 335 or 135 motor THE motor to have. Guys like Jon won't have much trouble finding a wrecked 335 motor to throw in their car.

Jon-

Could your car make reliable power and keep the heat out if you tuned it down some? I'm just trying to understand the limit of the engine you built for Cmod and what the power difference is over a NA engine.

On an other note I have really enjoyed watching the build of your car. I don't post much, but have been checking out your build some over the past year or so. I have to say your car is top notch, and I would love to have it no matter what letter was on the side!

-Rick

I see your point...Maybe keep with stock size turbos? I don't have the anwsers to this problem, but I do think that it would be hard to line up next to someone with a car in your class that could make close to twice the power.

It's just that much more fun when you post better lap times and a LOT more fun when you manage to get around them at the right time to pull off the win.

Jon-

Could your car make reliable power and keep the heat out if you tuned it down some? I'm just trying to understand the limit of the engine you built for Cmod and what the power difference is over a NA engine.

On an other note I have really enjoyed watching the build of your car. I don't post much, but have been checking out your build some over the past year or so. I have to say your car is top notch, and I would love to have it no matter what letter was on the side!

-Rick

We tried detuning the car, and we could have continued to try and I think we would have finally gotten to where we weren't having heat related issues, it's just that with each detune the car got less and less easy to drive. We have gone to a turbo 2 sizes smaller than when we started also, and the car currently makes 400whp in race trip. We were about to go to a smaller turbo when I pulled the plug, since with that smaller turbo we would probably be making 380 whp with a car that was extremely difficult to drive. When I compared this to my S54, which made 375whp in race trim and was EXTREMELY easy to drive, it made no sense to continue trying with this size motor. This gives you some insight into why I believe the Forced Induction modifier is fine where it stands at 1.5x.

We may have to wait a couple of days to see who I should be calling for that one!!!! :)

I can't seem to see the logic in A-mod starting at 5 liters?!?!? But then again, I am not sure anybody would get much support for a mid-year rules change on displacements in the B and A mod classes - and maybe even we would open a whole can of D-Mod worms if we did that. The 4 cylinder DM guys might want their own class! :)

Nope, not even 24 hours of waiting required. :( Think you can get a hold of that Rules Committee dude and put him on a mission to get this fixed right away? ;) Since there are so few folks affected at the present time, it should be relatively easy to make it happen....especially since best I can tell from very limited investigation, we have ZERO AM racers active in the program at this time. :confused Hopefully there wouldn't be any cause for additional moaning and whining from the S14 crowd that's seemingly no longer as dominant as they once were in DM (although the 2005 and 2007 DM National Champions were sporting S14s best I can tell)! :confused;)

Doesn't this seem like a WIN-WIN since nobody really loses... The FI guys that are running against one another in BM right now keep doing battle and the old big-six guys get their playing field back too. Everybody happier! :D

Does this mean my turbo M43 will still be acceptable in DM?...

Does this mean my turbo M43 will still be acceptable in DM?...

I imagine it would be. Mike was asking specifically about the line between BM and AM.

I was just doing some good ole' New England winter blues teasing. Us folk not from the Utopia of Cali get seasonal depression between race seasons and the only solution to alleviate the malady is bench racing. I have it even worse because I sold my car and no quick fix prescription is available to me.
Since I'm envious of Cali weather, I'll be travelling to your fine state in March. My wife has assured me it will replace the hole in my heart the lose of my other "significant other" has left. I just keep telling myself that family is more important than racing...

I was just doing some good ole' New England winter blues teasing. Us folk not from the Utopia of Cali get seasonal depression between race seasons and the only solution to alleviate the malady is bench racing. I have it even worse because I sold my car and no quick fix prescription is available to me.
Since I'm envious of Cali weather, I'll be travelling to your fine state in March. My wife has assured me it will replace the hole in my heart the lose of my other "significant other" has left. I just keep telling myself that family is more important than racing...

LOL - Whatcha coming to Cali for? If late March, come by California Speedway and have your heart ripped out by being forced to WATCH a race there. I know when I popped my achilles and had to watch racing it hurt so bad! I NEVER go to a club race now if all I can do is watch.

WOW - I just looked at the stats on this thread! Over 1000 replies and over 91,000 views. Amazing!

The guys are making good progress with the 3 liter. Went by the shop yesterday and the bottom end was almost done. Also, I now have another block and another crank for my "spare" bottom end. I need to buy piston and rods (I think I will put Eagle rods in this bottom end - the other has Carillo rods).

I also need to buy a head and do all the work on it to make it "complete".

I'll get more updates as I can. Shooting for a test day in a week or so, then the Club Race at PIR on March 7 to 9. Then second race should be the Club Race at Cal Speedway on the Friday and Saturday before Easter.

Niiiice. I can't wait to see that motor go.

I hate you Jon, I'm stuck here grinding my chassis, and you have a whole team at the shop working 7 days a week...I need to recruit some helpers so I can get this car done quicker lol

Hey Jon, I visited Evosport last week and was wildly impressed with your car in real life. It was sitting underneath Dale's e90 so they couldn't show me the engine but you are a lucky man!

Cage work and attention to detail was really impressive.

Its a motorsport cage, modified by evosport.

Hey Jon, I visited Evosport last week and was wildly impressed with your car in real life. It was sitting underneath Dale's e90 so they couldn't show me the engine but you are a lucky man!

Cage work and attention to detail was really impressive.
Thanks for the nice words. :redspot

So - update.

As I said previously, I decided in December to move to the "2.8l" Turbo motor that evosport has developed for Carl Lagoni. Well, the first dyno session for my new motor was last night and let me say in summary, this new motor makes as much HP at 9psi as my 2 liter motor made at 16 psi. Update numbers are 484 whp at 9psi. I will post a dyno chart later today.

One more thing. I am continually impressed with evosport's work and commitment. Recently I saw, in person, the work that they performed on a Mercedes Black series and I was SERIOUSLY impressed. Here's a link to the pictures and a brief writeup -CLK Black Summary (http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2675932&postcount=140)

Here's a write-up on the full build - CLK Black Thread (http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227014)

I never link to a different forum, but this is just so impressive to me that I had to share - I am sure you all will enjoy this!!

Here's a write-up on the full build - CLK Black Thread (http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227014)Damn :eyecrazy

You should wrap your cage in leather like the Merc, that would be awesome.

that Benz is out of control.

B.A.L.L.E.R.

http://www.evosport.com/public/customer_cars/bmw/e46/M3%2351/28l_9psi_breakin.jpg

Sorry, RPM pick-up was not functioning 100%, so it is speed only.

thanks
Brad

evosport: makin' shit happen!

i thought all along evosport was purely a race oriented company, huh i was wrong.

crazy how that guy on the benz forum takes the clk out for a 206mph spin ekkk!!!

thanks! We probably do more MBZ tuning then BMW stuff. We definitely manufacture more MBZ parts then BMW. Not be design, just the way it has worked out the last few years.

thanks
brad

Nice hp plot. Any tq plot to tease us with.

I wonder how many times I'll see Jon flying by during the "Monty Sidhu 59-Minute Non-Enduro" at the end of May. I'm going to go ahead and guess 3x, unless it's a reverse grid... then it might even be 4x. :help:lol

You can derive torque from that plot (HP is just a calculation as you know).

Brad...tisk tisk, you violated the internet standard of always putting Smoothing factor to 5 to make it "look good"...instead you actually had smooth tuning :rolleyes Haha, I can't wait to get boosted.

Wow that Mercedes is impressive! I remember the front aero mold on the car being shaped.

So now your car is going to be slightly faster and much more reliable? At this point, you aren't going to have any competition! When I saw your car at Thunderhill, you just smashed everyone else and got the fastest lap of the weekend.

What events are you planning on racing at this year?

Also finally saw a picture of your previous car just by chance:
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x115/mkodama/Picture2-3.jpg

I wonder how many times I'll see Jon flying by during the "Monty Sidhu 59-Minute Non-Enduro" at the end of May. I'm going to go ahead and guess 3x, unless it's a reverse grid... then it might even be 4x. :help:lol
I expect twice that much for me. But that's good news for Jon.

Go Reliability, Go! :D

Seriously - the CLK Black edition Benz is the most bad-ass daily driver you could ever have. That would be my number one pick over any car right now. Apart from the fun factor of a Ferrari F430 on the track, the Benz was as cool as the Ferrari was simply for as easy as it was to lay some insane strips of rubber coming out of any slow speed corner.

Leather wrapped roll cage looks like it came from the factory that way. Nice work.

Seriously - the CLK Black edition Benz is the most bad-ass daily driver you could ever have. That would be my number one pick over any car right now. Apart from the fun factor of a Ferrari F430 on the track, the Benz was as cool as the Ferrari was simply for as easy as it was to lay some insane strips of rubber coming out of any slow speed corner.

Leather wrapped roll cage looks like it came from the factory that way. Nice work.
Tom,

Thank you very much. I agree with you 1000000%. The car is sick in stock form, and pretty insane now.

Thanks for the nice words, especially on the cage.

thanks
Brad

First, let me state, for the record that I am an idiot.

Apparently I don't really know how to drive.

What should have been a great weekend, and was right up until Sunday morning was ruined by a couple really bad shifts on my part.

Once again, the AZ crew provided an amazing time for the BMWCCA Crowd. Friday catered lunch with 4 session of track time allowed us to get the chassis really dialed in. On scrubs, we were turning fast times - not as fast as the PTG cars, but good enough that I thought we might have something for them come Sat and Sun. The car was running a bit hot, but the chassis felt great.

Saturday practice was without incident except we were gettig only about 6 or 7 laps before the water temps got too high. Crazy thing is the sister car to mine (Carl Lagoni's) was running about 40 degrees cooler than mine (190 to my 230). Only difference is I have a top mount turbo and he has a bottom mount. I was trapping the heat at the top of the engine bay, up near the radiator while his was disspating under the car. Bottomline is that we couldn't get a handle on the temps and I was forced to retire from the race - I just didn't want to pop a headgasket. Little did I know I would pop something else later. The car was a beast while it was cool. As fast down the straights as any car out there. And we ran a 1:04.144 to the PTG car's 1:04.103 - so we were right there.

Sunday morning was beautiful. I got a good nights sleep, got in the car, hoping some additional heat shielding would help and went out and did 6 hot laps. Two bad shifts later and I was sitting on the side of the track with a ventilated block.

If there is ANY kind of good ventilated block, I got one. The rod broke and exited the BOTTOM of the motor. The head was unhurt besides 2 bent valves. Piston wasn't broken - no major pieces in the bore at all. Really lucky. Not much else to say except I f'd up.

The guys at evosport are busting their balls to see if I can make Cal Speedway in 2 weeks. We are revising the oil cooler location (moving it to the trunk and out from in front of the rad) and I am going to take some driving lessons to see if I can keep it together for a race. I'll report back after Cal Speedway.

A couple of pics from the weekend - The car looked good! All pics by Ralph Warren


230381


Chased by the PTG Car of Chad Nelson -
230382



230383


The new dive plan front bumper -
230384

Jon,

I'm really sorry to hear about your new engine features. I know you're in great hands with the Evosport crew.

Wow... sorry to hear that, Jon. I hope you guys get it all back together for next Fri/Sat.

Bummer Jon :help You've had more than your share of character builders.

Jay

Damn, I'm sorry to hear that Jon.

(Gee, I hope my "reliability" comment didn't jinx you. Grrr.)

How'd you get a volvo 5 cylinder in there while you were racing? I'm sorry to hear Jon, but I know you'll be back with a vengance as usual!

How'd you get a volvo 5 cylinder in there while you were racing? I'm sorry to hear Jon, but I know you'll be back with a vengance as usual!

LOL - really I was just trying to go race CM again. Didn't like the competition in BM, so I thought I would drop one cylinder.

By the way, do you like my new AVATAR and SIG??? Thanks to Ralph Warren for the pics and to Brad Otoupalik for the Avatar and SIG!! Also, thanks Brad for NOT doing the signature pic that showed my ventilated motor!!

We are revising the oil cooler location (moving it to the trunk and out from in front of the rad) and I am going to take some driving lessons to see if I can keep it together for a race. I'll report back after Cal Speedway.


I hate to say it but.......I told you so! :D

see my post #765 earlier on this thread.....

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=689216&page=31

I also had my oil cooler in front of my radiator like you do. I was running high water temps at my last race.

I have moved my oil cooler to a different location and left the front of my radiator clear now.

Soaking the incoming air to the radiator in 200+degree heat can't be helping much. Adding misters was a nice touch and new radiator like you mentioned will help but you might want to move that oil cooler anyway.....

certainly can't hurt .....


It was just pointed out to me by a veteran race car builder (there all vets in vintage racing!) that I should move my oil cooler when he was looking over my car.... So when I saw that pic of the oil cooler in the airstream for your radiator in you mega Hp turbo car I thought I'd chime in.

I was surprised at the difference moving that oil cooler made on my temps.....hopefully it will help you as well...... every little bit helps especially for us racers here in socal running under the hot desert sun for most of the year!

I tempted to build myself a small turbo monster with the spare M10 block I have laying in the corner my garage.....would be fun in my 1900lbs rust bucket racer......

hey Jon, Maybe it's a good excuse (or a good time) to get yourself a sequential xtrac, quaife or hewland etc.......that should put an end to you mistakingly ventilating your block!

I always love a good excuse/reason to spend money on my race car........helps me rationalize all the money I spend on my race car so I can go to sleep at night.....

Thanks for your post. However, as I think that we said then, we have built a lot ot cars ALL with the oil cooler in front of the rad. Not one has had an issue. When building race cars you go with what you know, then if things don't work you do something more.

Jon's car is unique in the approach, build and heat soak. You may have missed that the sister car with the same motor, same turbo, same boost, same HP and TQ, same lap time, etc same cooler in front of the rad, has absolutely ZERO cooling issues. For example, 85 degree willow springs ambient, 160-165 water (lower then we wanted), 210 oil with Intake Air Temp near 60 degrees.

If you have anything near normal and a proper sized rad, then you should have zero problems with the oil cooler in that location. I cannot believe that the added expense in time and money of a rear mount would be justified in 99.9% of the cases of heat issues. Typically the cause is due to something else lacking in the system.

The top mount turbo and the heat soak of that and the required pipework is the culprit. Funny that the long tube manifold that was required for the 2.1 to work right has become the biggest hurdle with his 2.8. :eyecrazy That's racing!

Thanks
Brad

hey Jon, Maybe it's a good excuse (or a good time) to get yourself a sequential xtrac, quaife or hewland etc.......that should put an end to you mistakingly ventilating your block!

I always love a good excuse/reason to spend money on my race car........helps me rationalize all the money I spend on my race car so I can go to sleep at night.....SM here we come!

This is an idea I like! C'mon JUNE! :evil2

I know of some BMW hewlands for sale :devillook

Maybe the KISS approach has proved itself again...off the shelf olt non spa manifold vs custom top mount :)

Maybe the KISS approach has proved itself again...off the shelf olt non spa manifold vs custom top mount :)

How boring!!!

Car looks really great Jon. Like the new look.
Good luck with getting the motor back together.

Car looks really great Jon. Like the new look.
Good luck with getting the motor back together.

Thanks!!

I am sure the evosport team is up to getting a motor together for me. They have pulled more difficult challenges in shorter time frames. The only time they are surprised is when they have to rely on outside contractors to do machine work or parts supply issues.

Boring...but more track time is not boring ;)

Keep experimented, we all benefit from your testing.

Boring...but more track time is not boring ;)

Keep experimented, we all benefit from your testing.



And you all will receive my BILL soon!!! I am watching all of you! I know where you live!! :) :)

Riiight, I'll have my check book ready...oh wait, I'm broke from my stupid anti-investment E46 :(

Your car is amazing...
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x115/mkodama/P1060199Medium.jpg
Though I'm kinda surprised you don't have some super unobtainable carbon or magnesium wheels with a matching custom paint job, haha.


Sorry about the engine and shifting troubles. :(

What does Evosport have planned to deal with the heat problems?

Maybe you just dial in a little extra power to make up for the air resistance and run without the hood? Should help with cooling.:D

Your car is amazing...
Though I'm kinda surprised you don't have some super unobtainable carbon or magnesium wheels with a matching custom paint job, haha.

What does Evosport have planned to deal with the heat problems?


Thanks! I have looked at the Dymag's but with all the other cars at evosport running the Enkei's I would be at a disadvantage to have to run a completely different setup. The Dymags, being significantly lighter, have a very different feel on track.

As far as the heat goes, we are moving the oil cooler back to the trunk, running a larger one and routing air from my rear quarter windows back via NACA ducts into the oil coolers. That will open up the radiator a bit for more air flow.

The guys at evosport already have a bottom end built. The head should be ready Tuesday and theya re working hard to help me make Cal Speedway next weekend. THANKS TO EVOSPORT!!

The guys at evosport already have a bottom end built. The head should be ready Tuesday and theya re working hard to help me make Cal Speedway next weekend. THANKS TO EVOSPORT!!

Really hope you guys make it, Jon. My fingers are crossed for you!

The top mount turbo and the heat soak of that and the required pipework is the culprit.

Thanks
Brad

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=899076&highlight=evosport

Post 20 and 25:) Just makes more sense to pull air from the engine compartment when the heat source is low and to the rear....not to mention weight distribution advantages.

Oh well, still it was one hell of a car from the video I saw.

Don

Some new pictures of the oil cooler setup.

Cell Phone Pics - sorry for the low quality.

We are using trunk mounted dual oil coolers with dual fans.
http://www.sendpix.com/albums/08041612/p8ymbbx2ip/0.jpg

They are enclosed by a vent box and are going to be fed from NACA ducts in the rear quarter windows:
http://www.sendpix.com/albums/08041612/p8ymbbx2ip/2.jpg
http://www.sendpix.com/albums/08041612/p8ymbbx2ip/1.jpg

All this will be enclosed within the trunk and vented through the license plate location:
http://www.sendpix.com/albums/08041612/p8ymbbx2ip/3.jpg
http://www.sendpix.com/albums/08041612/p8ymbbx2ip/4.jpg


I am hoping that this will free up enough radiator surface area to keep water temps in check. Next race is with the Porsche's next weekend, so we shall see!!

Wish me luck!

Jon,

I know you guys have top notch engineering going on over there, but I thought I'd chip in on one idea that might help you out.

Since you're running an oil cooler in the trunk, SKIP the fancy and expensive light weight rubber/plastic whatEVER stuff you'd be inclined to use for a super-duper-cool-weight savings measure, and use old fashioned SS aeroquip hose.....its an EXCELLENT way to radiate heat out of the oil and adds tremendiously to the cooling when you consider nearly 20+ feet of hose that can help dissipate the heat.

As a data point, my original drysumped S50B32 ran with an oil tank in the trunk, and we used one -16 sized hose to collect, and one -12 hose to return to the engine... the sole cooling for the system was the dissipating strength of those long runs of line, plus, an oil cooler built in my radiator. Worked great.

When I got rid of the DS system, the radiator based oil cooler was not sufficient, and it was not due to storing oil in the trunk vs hot oilpan, I'm pretty sure it was the 25 to 30 feet of SS line that dissipated so much heat. (no spell check, hold your tongues)

Alex.

Alex, I think this is a different application, as they have a large intercooler in front of the radiator, and this allows more air to reach the radiator now. I'm not sure if they even had an oil cooling issue, it seems to be a solution for getting more radiator airflow.

This is why I am trying very hard to angle the radiator forward and vent out the hood.

All this will be enclosed within the trunk and vented through the license plate location:
http://www.sendpix.com/albums/08041612/p8ymbbx2ip/3.jpg
http://www.sendpix.com/albums/08041612/p8ymbbx2ip/4.jpg



Protest, protest! Unfair advantage with additional boost/thrust from afterburner fans clearly not allowed in rules ;):devillook

You guys are killin' me :buttrock

Jay

Jay, you caught us!! But you have it a little backwards. Those fans are actually the exhaust fans for our "sucker car" that pulls itself down to the racetrack like the old Brabham Fan Car did in F1!!!

We are using the power of suction!!

That way, everybody can say honetly that "Jon's Car Sucks!!"

I knew I recognized that design from somewhere!! :D

http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/TonyFerrariMystery.jpg

A team in this years grassroots motorsports 2008 challenge built a fan car. They managed to get 1000lbs of downforce.....

Holder........maybe this is the next step huh? the first M3 "Chapparal" sucker car!! :buttrock :buttrock

DO it evosport!!!

Oh he's a sucker alright lol Technically, the car will actually blow more than suck.

Would something like that be legal in bmw club racing? just curious! :D

Would something like that be legal in bmw club racing? just curious! :D

I don't think it would be legal in MOD class. Maybe, just maybe you could get away with it in Super Mod.

We race next weekend at Willow Springs with a bunch of Porsche's. Porsche Owners Club Race - should be fun!!

I always like surprising the P-Cars a bit - although about 4 to 6 of them are still faster than my car - amazing!!

AMAZING - 100,000 views on this thread - you would think it was a "Jailbait Gallery" Thread!!!!!!!

Because it is jail bait, so tempting to steal it just to drive it once.

Maybe, just maybe you could get away with it in Super Mod.

We'll find out soon...:devillook

Why not pull air from under the car in one of the mod allowable aero locations? :devillook

Why not pull air from under the car in one of the mod allowable aero locations? :devillook

We thought about that, but we also thought it would pick up a lot of dirt/grime that would get into the fins of the oil coolers.

Apparently Phil is going to build a sucker car, so we shall see how it works in BMW Club Racing!!

Apparently Phil is going to build a sucker car, so we shall see how it works in BMW Club Racing!!

Phil's car already sucks...

We thought about that, but we also thought it would pick up a lot of dirt/grime that would get into the fins of the oil coolers.

Apparently Phil is going to build a sucker car, so we shall see how it works in BMW Club Racing!!

I suppose...

At least rig up a can of wd40 and a spark plug for the sick batman style afterburner.

Phil's car already sucks...

:lol EASY!!!!

We had a full day of testing today at Willow Springs. The day started beautiful at about 75 degrees and progressed throughout the day to a high just under 85.

The new oil cooler setup worked wonderfully with both oil and water temps never getting above 190. In fact, it might be a bit too cool, but we will wait and see how it does in traffic. The test session was lightly attended, so not a whole lot of dirty air to attempt to test in.

I am pleased!!

Now to wait until the Monty Sidhu Memorial Race at the end of May at Willow for it's RACE testing.

Nice. Get some video up from some of the recent test/race days will ya! I want to see what I am in for lol

Sounds like you found the cause for the cooling issues before...just too much stuff up front. This is one of the reasons I am going to try to angle the radiator forward and duct out the hood.

I'm looking forward to seeing how your car matches up against some of my POC friends in the red group.

I just read the whole thread. This car is amazing.

Great work Evo Sport!!

BTW I want your tool box ;)

In fact, it might be a bit too cool, but we will wait and see how it does in traffic. The test session was lightly attended, so not a whole lot of dirty air to attempt to test in.

Traffic? In your car? I don't see you spending a lot of time tucked up behind the bumper of another car on the straight with all of that power. :confused

In something like a Spec Miata (where we bump drafted all of the way around the banking at Lowes Motor Speedway and oil temps went to 310+), I'd be worried about airflow in traffic. In your car, I don't see it as much of an issue.

Traffic? In your car? I don't see you spending a lot of time tucked up behind the bumper of another car on the straight with all of that power. :confused

In something like a Spec Miata (where we bump drafted all of the way around the banking at Lowes Motor Speedway and oil temps went to 310+), I'd be worried about airflow in traffic. In your car, I don't see it as much of an issue.

We have traffic in the Porsched Club Races. Many of those cars are 2200 lbs and pushing 500 to 750 whp. We are 2900 lbs with me in the car, so we get stuck behind some of the P-Cars.

Also, there is traffic when I come around to lap people!! :)

I was more worried about my water temps, as that is where we were having issues with the oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator.

Generally you're only going to have airflow cooling issues if your bumper is tucked up underneath (literally within 1-2 feet) the car in front of you for an extended period on the straight. Working through traffic and drafting the occasional similarly powered car should be ok.

Generally you're only going to have airflow cooling issues if your bumper is tucked up underneath (literally within 1-2 feet) the car in front of you for an extended period on the straight. Working through traffic and drafting the occasional similarly powered car should be ok.

Cool! Then the car should be golden now, cause we couldn't get it hot in pretty hot conditions! I'm looking forward to racing in 3 weeks in the Monty Sidhu Memorial Non-Enduro Enduro Race at Willow Springs!

Any updates to this? I missed running in Socal this year to see you guys run.