Wiseguy ON
02-14-2007, 03:36 PM
We need one of these on here.
Basically, E28s are one of the strongest cars ever made by BMW. They are, from my standpoint as the owner of an Indy BMW shop, better built by a long shot than the newer cars. However it's important to remember that E28 production ended close to 20 year ago and as such, these cars are now getting old. The biggest problem that a potential buyer will face are rust and neglect as many E28s can be purchased for less than $1,000, the previous owner may have deferred a lot of maintinence.
The following apply to ALL E28s, model-specifics will follow. This is more of a "what to look for" thread and less of a "how to mod your car" thread.
Interior:
Dashboards crack. I have yet to see one be successfully repaired for less than $1,300 or so. Also, a new OEM one from BMW is at least $1,000 or so now as the MSRP of the part recently skyrocketed. The $79 dash caps look OK, but hot weather warps them very easily.
Leather seats wear, this is normal as these cars are old.
Headrest failures on power seats are a quick and easy fix.
Gauge clusters can fail, this is often cause by failure of the Ni-Cad batteries on the service board. Don't let this go for too long as the batteries can leak and wreck the cluster.
Odometergears.com sells replacement odometer gears, that's why the odometers often fail, especially in warm climate cars.
Most trim is still available from the dealer, but is pricey.
Headliners are a real swine to change, a torn one isn't a cheap or easy fix.
Wind noise is usually cause by bad front (or sometimes rear) window channels.
Stereos use common-ground speaker wiring and the circuit that the original power lines are on isn't really adequate for a modern system. The best way to wire a stereo is to rewire the speakers and tap the switched and constant power leads from the igntion switch.
Bodywork:
Rust is a problem on northern cars. Watch for sunroof panel rust (Caused usually by clogged drain tubes), rear valances, especially in the area where the rear bumper shocks mount to the body. Also check the jacking points carefully as these often go first. Doors and the bottoms of the front fenders are other trouble spots. A failed trunk seal or taillamp seals (common) can cause the spare tire well to rot out. Very rusty cars should be avoided as you can spend a fortune fixing them.
Shadowline trim is largely NLA and pricey when you can find it.
Watch for cracked bumpers.
The plastic chrome trim around the windshield and rear window yellows, this is VERY common and cheap and reasonably easy to replace.
As I mentioned above, watch for water leaks in the trunk, usually caused by bad taillight or trunk gaskets. These are available new from BMW.
Watch for shrunken windsheild and rear window gaskets that can cause water leaks.
Structural failures are virtually unheard of, unlike some later cars although you will sometimes see cracks in the B-Pillars.
Suspension and Steering:
The E28's suspension design is simple and very effective but prone to front rubber bushing wear. Rear subframe mounts are also going to need changing by now, this is common and can be a PITA to do without a lift. Shimmies and shakes are common faults, usually caused by thrust arm or lower control arm play. Tie rods are a bit more robust than on, say, E36s or E34s from my experience but VERY few E28s exist with under 100k and few with under 150k on them, be aware that the car you're looking at may well need them.
Steering boxes can leak, but it's usually an issue with the hoses failing.
Drivetrain:
The transmissions in these cars are generally durable and reliable, the early cars used the ZF 3HP22 Automatic which is a VERY durable transmission but parts are becoming tricky to get for it. 85+ cars used the ZF 4HP22 transmission and later on the electronically controlled ZF 4HP22EH. DO NOT EVER rev these cars in Neutral, transmission failure can occur.
Manual Tranmissions are hit or miss, most are capable of huge mileage but the Getrag 265 (Depends on the year) is more robust. It's not exactly interchangeable (driveshaft differences) with the more common 260.
Driveshafts can lose their U-Joints, go under the car and check it for free play, a remanufactured driveshaft is usually your only real option and costs $300ish plus core.
The center bearings and Guibos can fail, watch for slop in the drveshaft (Move it up/down and side/side while under the car) and watch for cracks in the rubber guibo/flex disc where the driveshaft and the trans meet.
Also be careful of a cracked pedal box, these can be rewelded.
Clutch master cylinders rarely fail, but slave cyls can go bad. These are cheap and relatively easy to swap out.
Rear differential mounts can fail, fix this before you cause body damage.
rear axle shafts routinely sail past 300k miles without needing servicing.
Watch for damaged steering box mounts.
Electrical System:
The electricals onan E28 are far simpler than on the newer cars, but again, they are aging. A bad main or fuel pump relay will stop an E28 in its' tracks, carrying spares isn't a bad idea.
Window regulators and motors are very reliable as a rule if kept lubricated, switches are a problem. Instrument cluster issues were mentioned earlier.
The ETMs for these cars are available for download from www.bmwplanet.com for free. Most electrical issues are cause by loose/dirty/corroded connections and grounds.
ECUs can and do fail because of internally broken solder joints, these are fixable if you're good at soldering.
Alternators and starters are generally also quite robust, the brushes and regulator packs in the alternators can wear out and can be replaced separately.
Make sure EVERYTHING works.
Dead trip computers (OBC) on 82-84 cars are often caused by the fuse on the OBC module's circuit board being blown, replace with an SFE4 fuse from Radio Shack.
Dim OBC displays on 85-88 cars are generally cause by a bad light bar, $30 or so for a replacement or some people solder new bulbs in.
A burned out alternator idiot light will kill the charging circuit on early cars!
ABS Failures are usually bad or dirty wheel speed sensors and not common.
Power antennas can be a pain.
Brakes
M30-Based cars (533, 535, M5) use a Hydraulic brake boost system. The booster is VERY expensive (Black unit near firewall with lines coming out of it) so be mindful of this when looking at the car. Failure of the hydraulic accumulator or "brake bomb" is reasonably common and a reasonably cheap and easy fix. At idle, you should be able to pump the brakes hard at LEAST 10 times before the "BRAKE" and "ABS" lights come on.
Hydraulics are otherwise quite reliable but calipers and whatnot will often need rebuilding after 20-25 years.
These cars can be hard on front rotors.
Which Pads? Rotors? Well that's subjective.
Wheels and Tires
The 528e and 524td came with 14" wheels and 195/70HR14 tires (originally either Pirelli P5s or Michelin XASs, both way way way out of production, thankfully). The best bets these days for those wheels are going to be the Dunlop Sport A2 in 195/70HR14.
The 533i, 535i and 535is came with Metric 165x390TR wheels. Currently, only the Michelin TRX fits these wheels, they are available on occasion from elsewhere, but usually Coker Tire is your only source for them. They cost $300+ each. The original size is a 200-60VR390
15" tires WILL NOT FIT TRX RIMS! DO NOT EVEN TRY IT!
These tires are expensive and obsolete, if the car is equipped with TRXs, feel free to use them until they wear out. A nice and inexpensive upgrade would be 15" basketweaves from an E34 and 205/60/15s. 17s are about the limit, 16s and 205-55-16s are the way to go. 225-50-16s usually rub without rolling the rear fenders. M5s had rolled rear fenders from the factory.
The M5 used 16x7 BBS basketweave wheels and 225-50VR16 tires, these are fine to stick with.
The wheels for these cars use a roughly 22mm offset and a 5x120 bolt pattern. E36/E46 wheels will not fit without spacers. E39 wheels require the use of hubcentric rings.
Maintinence and Fluids:
All E28s require valve adjustments. M20s and M30s use an eccentric-based system which is simple and easy to do with a piece of stiff wire, feeler gauges and a 10mm wrench. Valve lash should be checked every 15k miles.
M5 Valve adjustments require the use of shims and special tools. If you aren't very familiar with it, take it to a pro who knows how to service S38s.
Oil for these engines is 20W50, period. If it's freezing out, you can drop down to 10W40 but that's it. DO NOT USE 5W30 or 10W30 UNLESS IT'S AN ALASKAN WINTER!
Otherwise, usual fluids apply, I use RedLine MTL in the manual trannies and RedLine ATF in the automatics. I also use good DOT4 brake fluid and RedLine 75W90 in the diffs.
Coolant? I use BMW Coolant.
M20s need new timing belts every 5 years or 60k per BMW. While you're at it, do a water pump. I STRONGLY suggest that any 528e or 524td that you buy gets a new water pump and timing belt instantly. These are interference engines and a broken belt costs a lot to put right.
Other maintinence is like any other typical BMW.
Engines:
Aside from the above, these engines are generally extremely robust and capable of herculean mileages. Oil pressure lights that take 5 seconds or so to go out on M30s are not a real cause for concern.
Fuel injectors are "clicky" at idle, that's normal.
Watch for loose valvetrain oil sprayer bar bolts on M30s, these can cause valvetrain oil starvation and wreck a cam.
Poorly maintained M30s that are beaten on will break rockers.
535is and M5 specific:
M5s are wonderful cars, and still fast by today's standards. It's CRUCIAL that a pre-purchase inspection on an M5 is done by a shop that's familiar with S38s. Anything specific to an M5 can be hugely expensive if it's broken, know this up front. An engine rebuild on an S38 can cost $10,000, a head job $4,000+. Few machine shops have the experience to properly fix these heads. A poorly maintained M5 can be a terrifyingly expensive car to put right,that being said my M5 has LOTS of track time on it and over 180k under its' belt and runs great.
M5 leather interior pieces are rare and valuable.
M5 shadowline trim is also rare and valuable, front bumpers and shadowline drip rails are NLA.
M5s and 535is models use M-Technic front airdams which are easily damaged and sport seats (No, they are NOT Recaros). These sport seats are prone to frame cracks which mean the outer lower thich supprts will be loose or out of place. This can be expensive to fix.
Front airdams are still available, but not cheap.
Hope this serves as a good start, perhaps can the mods make this a sticky?
Bill
Basically, E28s are one of the strongest cars ever made by BMW. They are, from my standpoint as the owner of an Indy BMW shop, better built by a long shot than the newer cars. However it's important to remember that E28 production ended close to 20 year ago and as such, these cars are now getting old. The biggest problem that a potential buyer will face are rust and neglect as many E28s can be purchased for less than $1,000, the previous owner may have deferred a lot of maintinence.
The following apply to ALL E28s, model-specifics will follow. This is more of a "what to look for" thread and less of a "how to mod your car" thread.
Interior:
Dashboards crack. I have yet to see one be successfully repaired for less than $1,300 or so. Also, a new OEM one from BMW is at least $1,000 or so now as the MSRP of the part recently skyrocketed. The $79 dash caps look OK, but hot weather warps them very easily.
Leather seats wear, this is normal as these cars are old.
Headrest failures on power seats are a quick and easy fix.
Gauge clusters can fail, this is often cause by failure of the Ni-Cad batteries on the service board. Don't let this go for too long as the batteries can leak and wreck the cluster.
Odometergears.com sells replacement odometer gears, that's why the odometers often fail, especially in warm climate cars.
Most trim is still available from the dealer, but is pricey.
Headliners are a real swine to change, a torn one isn't a cheap or easy fix.
Wind noise is usually cause by bad front (or sometimes rear) window channels.
Stereos use common-ground speaker wiring and the circuit that the original power lines are on isn't really adequate for a modern system. The best way to wire a stereo is to rewire the speakers and tap the switched and constant power leads from the igntion switch.
Bodywork:
Rust is a problem on northern cars. Watch for sunroof panel rust (Caused usually by clogged drain tubes), rear valances, especially in the area where the rear bumper shocks mount to the body. Also check the jacking points carefully as these often go first. Doors and the bottoms of the front fenders are other trouble spots. A failed trunk seal or taillamp seals (common) can cause the spare tire well to rot out. Very rusty cars should be avoided as you can spend a fortune fixing them.
Shadowline trim is largely NLA and pricey when you can find it.
Watch for cracked bumpers.
The plastic chrome trim around the windshield and rear window yellows, this is VERY common and cheap and reasonably easy to replace.
As I mentioned above, watch for water leaks in the trunk, usually caused by bad taillight or trunk gaskets. These are available new from BMW.
Watch for shrunken windsheild and rear window gaskets that can cause water leaks.
Structural failures are virtually unheard of, unlike some later cars although you will sometimes see cracks in the B-Pillars.
Suspension and Steering:
The E28's suspension design is simple and very effective but prone to front rubber bushing wear. Rear subframe mounts are also going to need changing by now, this is common and can be a PITA to do without a lift. Shimmies and shakes are common faults, usually caused by thrust arm or lower control arm play. Tie rods are a bit more robust than on, say, E36s or E34s from my experience but VERY few E28s exist with under 100k and few with under 150k on them, be aware that the car you're looking at may well need them.
Steering boxes can leak, but it's usually an issue with the hoses failing.
Drivetrain:
The transmissions in these cars are generally durable and reliable, the early cars used the ZF 3HP22 Automatic which is a VERY durable transmission but parts are becoming tricky to get for it. 85+ cars used the ZF 4HP22 transmission and later on the electronically controlled ZF 4HP22EH. DO NOT EVER rev these cars in Neutral, transmission failure can occur.
Manual Tranmissions are hit or miss, most are capable of huge mileage but the Getrag 265 (Depends on the year) is more robust. It's not exactly interchangeable (driveshaft differences) with the more common 260.
Driveshafts can lose their U-Joints, go under the car and check it for free play, a remanufactured driveshaft is usually your only real option and costs $300ish plus core.
The center bearings and Guibos can fail, watch for slop in the drveshaft (Move it up/down and side/side while under the car) and watch for cracks in the rubber guibo/flex disc where the driveshaft and the trans meet.
Also be careful of a cracked pedal box, these can be rewelded.
Clutch master cylinders rarely fail, but slave cyls can go bad. These are cheap and relatively easy to swap out.
Rear differential mounts can fail, fix this before you cause body damage.
rear axle shafts routinely sail past 300k miles without needing servicing.
Watch for damaged steering box mounts.
Electrical System:
The electricals onan E28 are far simpler than on the newer cars, but again, they are aging. A bad main or fuel pump relay will stop an E28 in its' tracks, carrying spares isn't a bad idea.
Window regulators and motors are very reliable as a rule if kept lubricated, switches are a problem. Instrument cluster issues were mentioned earlier.
The ETMs for these cars are available for download from www.bmwplanet.com for free. Most electrical issues are cause by loose/dirty/corroded connections and grounds.
ECUs can and do fail because of internally broken solder joints, these are fixable if you're good at soldering.
Alternators and starters are generally also quite robust, the brushes and regulator packs in the alternators can wear out and can be replaced separately.
Make sure EVERYTHING works.
Dead trip computers (OBC) on 82-84 cars are often caused by the fuse on the OBC module's circuit board being blown, replace with an SFE4 fuse from Radio Shack.
Dim OBC displays on 85-88 cars are generally cause by a bad light bar, $30 or so for a replacement or some people solder new bulbs in.
A burned out alternator idiot light will kill the charging circuit on early cars!
ABS Failures are usually bad or dirty wheel speed sensors and not common.
Power antennas can be a pain.
Brakes
M30-Based cars (533, 535, M5) use a Hydraulic brake boost system. The booster is VERY expensive (Black unit near firewall with lines coming out of it) so be mindful of this when looking at the car. Failure of the hydraulic accumulator or "brake bomb" is reasonably common and a reasonably cheap and easy fix. At idle, you should be able to pump the brakes hard at LEAST 10 times before the "BRAKE" and "ABS" lights come on.
Hydraulics are otherwise quite reliable but calipers and whatnot will often need rebuilding after 20-25 years.
These cars can be hard on front rotors.
Which Pads? Rotors? Well that's subjective.
Wheels and Tires
The 528e and 524td came with 14" wheels and 195/70HR14 tires (originally either Pirelli P5s or Michelin XASs, both way way way out of production, thankfully). The best bets these days for those wheels are going to be the Dunlop Sport A2 in 195/70HR14.
The 533i, 535i and 535is came with Metric 165x390TR wheels. Currently, only the Michelin TRX fits these wheels, they are available on occasion from elsewhere, but usually Coker Tire is your only source for them. They cost $300+ each. The original size is a 200-60VR390
15" tires WILL NOT FIT TRX RIMS! DO NOT EVEN TRY IT!
These tires are expensive and obsolete, if the car is equipped with TRXs, feel free to use them until they wear out. A nice and inexpensive upgrade would be 15" basketweaves from an E34 and 205/60/15s. 17s are about the limit, 16s and 205-55-16s are the way to go. 225-50-16s usually rub without rolling the rear fenders. M5s had rolled rear fenders from the factory.
The M5 used 16x7 BBS basketweave wheels and 225-50VR16 tires, these are fine to stick with.
The wheels for these cars use a roughly 22mm offset and a 5x120 bolt pattern. E36/E46 wheels will not fit without spacers. E39 wheels require the use of hubcentric rings.
Maintinence and Fluids:
All E28s require valve adjustments. M20s and M30s use an eccentric-based system which is simple and easy to do with a piece of stiff wire, feeler gauges and a 10mm wrench. Valve lash should be checked every 15k miles.
M5 Valve adjustments require the use of shims and special tools. If you aren't very familiar with it, take it to a pro who knows how to service S38s.
Oil for these engines is 20W50, period. If it's freezing out, you can drop down to 10W40 but that's it. DO NOT USE 5W30 or 10W30 UNLESS IT'S AN ALASKAN WINTER!
Otherwise, usual fluids apply, I use RedLine MTL in the manual trannies and RedLine ATF in the automatics. I also use good DOT4 brake fluid and RedLine 75W90 in the diffs.
Coolant? I use BMW Coolant.
M20s need new timing belts every 5 years or 60k per BMW. While you're at it, do a water pump. I STRONGLY suggest that any 528e or 524td that you buy gets a new water pump and timing belt instantly. These are interference engines and a broken belt costs a lot to put right.
Other maintinence is like any other typical BMW.
Engines:
Aside from the above, these engines are generally extremely robust and capable of herculean mileages. Oil pressure lights that take 5 seconds or so to go out on M30s are not a real cause for concern.
Fuel injectors are "clicky" at idle, that's normal.
Watch for loose valvetrain oil sprayer bar bolts on M30s, these can cause valvetrain oil starvation and wreck a cam.
Poorly maintained M30s that are beaten on will break rockers.
535is and M5 specific:
M5s are wonderful cars, and still fast by today's standards. It's CRUCIAL that a pre-purchase inspection on an M5 is done by a shop that's familiar with S38s. Anything specific to an M5 can be hugely expensive if it's broken, know this up front. An engine rebuild on an S38 can cost $10,000, a head job $4,000+. Few machine shops have the experience to properly fix these heads. A poorly maintained M5 can be a terrifyingly expensive car to put right,that being said my M5 has LOTS of track time on it and over 180k under its' belt and runs great.
M5 leather interior pieces are rare and valuable.
M5 shadowline trim is also rare and valuable, front bumpers and shadowline drip rails are NLA.
M5s and 535is models use M-Technic front airdams which are easily damaged and sport seats (No, they are NOT Recaros). These sport seats are prone to frame cracks which mean the outer lower thich supprts will be loose or out of place. This can be expensive to fix.
Front airdams are still available, but not cheap.
Hope this serves as a good start, perhaps can the mods make this a sticky?
Bill