I am wondering how to improve the responsiveness of my 95 525i. I have never driven an e34 before so maybe they are not designed to handle like a sports car. I never really noticed it until I drove my wifes X5 and realized how tight the steering was compared to the e34. Can you buy neoprene bushings for the front end? The car has 190K miles and I don't know what has been done to the front end. What parts would need to be replaced in the frontend to "rebuild" it? The steering is not sloppy but just doesn't handle like I would think "the ultimate driving machine" should. Maybe I am expecting sports car handling and thats not realistic in a sedan.

Is the steering response too slow, too imprecise, or is it just that the steering is too light (my complaint)? From what I gather, a smaller steering wheel will fix lightness, springs and possibly sway bars will fix slow response and imprecision. Also make sure that the stock suspension is intact, that you don't have worn bushings and such.

Is the steering response too slow, too imprecise, or is it just that the steering is too light (my complaint)? From what I gather, a smaller steering wheel will fix lightness, springs and possibly sway bars will fix slow response and imprecision. Also make sure that the stock suspension is intact, that you don't have worn bushings and such.
I am not sure of the exact terminology I am looking for. I would say it is not "tight" enough. In the X5 a very slight movement of the wheel jerks the car to the right or left sharply (it is almost too tight and seems kind of dangerous in a vehicle with a high center of gravity). In the e34 it seems loose in the sense that to move the car right or left takes more movement of the wheel. I have not really inspected the front end components yet. I think another term to use is that the ratio of the steering box is too high.

By "movement", do you mean movement of your hands, or actual rotation of the wheel? E34 wheels are pretty big, quite possibly bigger than X5 ones, and a smaller one might solve your (and my) problem. If you're sure that the E34 wheel has to rotate more to get the same kind of turn as in the X5, then it's too high a steering ratio, and only a new steering box can fix that.

I know exactly what you mean. My aunt's X5, and 315Xi, has very tight steering. After driving the X5, my 525i seemed almost 'sloppy.' It still drives in a straight line when you point it forward, but it just isn't the same. Then again, her car has 10 years of development on mine. I am going to replace the tie rods and controls arms and all that, hopefully it will drive more like her X5.

Marty if the suspension is tight then the steering wheel is too big. I feel like I am navigating a boat sometimes due to the wheel. I wan to add the M Tech unit, bout 300 - 400 buck depending on where you get it. Looks hot and has less diameter. Otherwise start by replacing everything in the front end as there as an ass load of bushings, thrust arms, sway bar links yada yada that need to be addressed before they reach 190K maybe twice LOL

I dropped a 1000 bucks for my suspension. Everything upfront and Bils with Bav Auto springs. Thats parts only. Come drive mine if you need to compare

The original wheel is about 393mm in diameter - about 15.5". The Mtech I is 380, the Mtech II seems to be 370, but it's unclear whether there's only one kind of those, or if there's a bigger and smaller one. It remains to be seen if there's anything smaller that'll fit, physically and visually. I'll ask around.

The original wheel is about 393mm in diameter - about 15.5". The Mtech I is 380, the Mtech II seems to be 370, but it's unclear whether there's only one kind of those, or if there's a bigger and smaller one. It remains to be seen if there's anything smaller that'll fit, physically and visually. I'll ask around.

Good to know.

Would like to find out what the early E36 M3 wheel's diameter is, being it's relatively easy and retains an airbag.

I am not sure of the exact terminology I am looking for. I would say it is not "tight" enough. In the X5 a very slight movement of the wheel jerks the car to the right or left sharply (it is almost too tight and seems kind of dangerous in a vehicle with a high center of gravity). In the e34 it seems loose in the sense that to move the car right or left takes more movement of the wheel. I have not really inspected the front end components yet. I think another term to use is that the ratio of the steering box is too high.

And yea that is why SUV's are dangerous, just what you said above! I hear ya on the steering part on the E34. I have a whole new front end with bushings and arms and what not, but not new lowering springs and struts and sways. I feel that this is much needed. Also I heard that there is a nut that you can tighten under the collom to help, but not to tight.

Found this. Diameter is 36cm (almost 1.5 inches smaller than stock). How do you yall think it'd look? I like that it's simple, but it might be too 80's-angular.

Another more simple thing you can try is changing the front toe settings. I set mine to be slightly toe'd out. It's quick... too quick. It darts quicker than my M3 set at 0 toe.

The other aspect is the age and design of the car. There is only so much you can do with this design. Absolutely no way that an antiquated steering box E34 is going to feel as responsive as a newer, closer ratio steering rack car.

Found this. Diameter is 36cm (almost 1.5 inches smaller than stock). How do you yall think it'd look? I like that it's simple, but it might be too 80's-angular.

:rofl

Hell no, that's from a base E30. I have that in mine. Just do an MTech II wheel if you ditch your old wheel and the airbag.

Just get the Euro M5 steering.

Yall don't like it, then? It's smaller and probably 3-5 times cheaper than an MTech II.

Fixing toe-out helps with twitchiness, but not enough with the weight.

Yall don't like it, then? It's smaller and probably 3-5 times cheaper than an MTech II.

Fixing toe-out helps with twitchiness, but not enough with the weight.

No dude, that's one of the ugliest wheels ever produced. I'm assuming you've never felt it either. It's rubber and feels like it's going to bend in your hands.

Are you completely sure it's smaller?

Try to find a used MTech II, or a cheap E36 M3 wheel.

Seller says 36cm. I actually don't mind the look, but rubber and bendy is no good. MTech II is too damn expensive. *makes pained effort to suppress BMW parts gouging rant*

How big are E36 wheels? There seem to be at least two different M3 ones, neither of which look quite right.

Seller says 36cm. I actually don't mind the look, but rubber and bendy is no good. MTech II is too damn expensive. *makes pained effort to suppress BMW parts gouging rant*

How big are E36 wheels? There seem to be at least two different M3 ones, neither of which look quite right.

The one from 95-98 is correct. There was one from 98.5-99 that I guess you could get to work, but not sure is involved. Check the steering wheel thread.

Isn't this like a short shift kit? Yes the "throw" is reduced, but because its smaller there's less torque and the effort goes up.

I think that's the point.

Does anybody make a closer ratio steering box for these cars or will a box from another BMW work?

The 3-spoke ///M wheel ('99 M3, 98-02 MZ3, E39 540i/6) fits no problem. I used the slip ring from the E34, but only because I bought an E36 wheel with a damaged slip ring.

Straight swap.

Much improved (although I am used to it from my MCoupe and 540i/6, so maybe its partly the familiarity)!


The one from 95-98 is correct. There was one from 98.5-99 that I guess you could get to work, but not sure is involved. Check the steering wheel thread.

Steering 'feel' is probably my single biggest complaint on the E34, and it has been in many circles since the car was new. The simple fact is that a recirculating ball steering box coupled with a little too much power assist and an extra-large steering wheel, leads to a rather unsatisfying steering experience in an otherwise fabulous car.

There are a number of factors that make this worse with age:
1 - The nut that tightens the telescoping shaft to the steering box input shaft gets loose. It can be tightened easily underneath the dash, in the driver's footwell.
2 - The tie rod ends wear out.
3 - The ball joints on the center drag link wear out.
4 - The idler arm and bushing wears out.
5 - The steering box itself wears over time and needs adjustment. The adjustment can be made to tighten up the on-center slop, but care must be taken, because adjusting it too tight will just cause the box to grind itself up and wear out even faster.

I'm fighting this right now on my car. All of the tie rods/center link/idler were replaced not long ago, but there's a problem with the nut under the dash and it won't tighten. I'm going to replace that, and then if necessary, I have an extra steering box to rebuild as well. I believe that with careful attention to detail, the system can be made to work acceptably well, but the unfortunate reality is, no recirculating ball steering system is going to have the communication and feel of a really good rack & pinion.

Are there rack & pinion boxes available as aftermarket retrofits, say, something one would find on a dedicated race E34? It's theoretically possible, so what kind of effort/money would be required to turn it into a reality?

Cacatfish converted an E34 with a VW MK3 rack and pinion unit, IIRC. I believe it was a fairly costly conversion...perhaps he'll chime in.

A true fix for this, would be getting a set of caster plates for the front suspension. Driver feels steering though the negative/positive angle of the caster. Caster is the angle inwich the strut is verticaly viewed from the side of the car. IE, if the looking at the driver side of the car, and the top of the strut is further back than the bottom is (meaning it has a negative angle of caster) this will produce more feel for the driver through the steering wheel. I beleive i had 2 degrees stock when i had my car on the alignment rack. 10 second drag cars usually have 6-8 degrees of caster. And FYI, and Rail car such as a top fuel car, traveling up over 300+ has 30+ degrees of caster.

I just finished schooling, and my last class was High Performance Steering and Suspensions. Learned a shit load, just not enough money to use my knowledge onto my car. But i used my notes and books for you guys!;) Hope this helped!

That may be, but that's going to be a one-off custom piece. No one makes caster adjustable plates. It's hard enough to find camber adjustment plates for this car.

I'm curious to hear about that rack retrofit...

I'm fighting this right now on my car. All of the tie rods/center link/idler were replaced not long ago, but there's a problem with the nut under the dash and it won't tighten. I'm going to replace that, and then if necessary, I have an extra steering box to rebuild as well. I believe that with careful attention to detail, the system can be made to work acceptably well, but the unfortunate reality is, no recirculating ball steering system is going to have the communication and feel of a really good rack & pinion.

If you get anywhere with this, please post up. I'm going through the same thing. My steering box seems to have bottomed out so I'm guessing my next step is to buy a rebuilt unit. Don't want to do that if I don't have to. Replaced everything in the front end but the idler arm, pitman, and center link... also, the steering shaft nut seems very tight. Frustrating!!! I couldn't care less if it wasn't as responsive as a newer car as long as there wasn't play in the steering wheel.

GC lists E34 camber/caster plates:

http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=689/CA=97

*They also note that those with stock springs should use the Spec E30 plate*

FWIW

That may be, but that's going to be a one-off custom piece. No one makes caster adjustable plates. It's hard enough to find camber adjustment plates for this car.

I'm curious to hear about that rack retrofit...

adjusting the caster so the strut tower leans back further is a great fix, you have to remember that when you increase the caster you also get more camber gain what that means is that when your turning 'say' right the tires will actully lean into the corner, if you want to get more technical, i setup my dirt sprintcar with about 14 degrees caster on the right front, this helps with corner entry because as you momentarly turn left the added caster makes the right front corner of the car drop to unload the inside rear tire which will help the car turn into a corners- applys to road cars aswell, the other way to get more response form steering is to use stiffer front springs, instead of the suspension absorbing most of the force from the road it puts more load through the tires as a result of the stiffer spring rate. anyways you cant really make things any worse that what you have, unless you put 15inch tires on it and wonder why it doesnt drive like a racecar lol

If you get anywhere with this, please post up. I'm going through the same thing. My steering box seems to have bottomed out so I'm guessing my next step is to buy a rebuilt unit. Don't want to do that if I don't have to. Replaced everything in the front end but the idler arm, pitman, and center link... also, the steering shaft nut seems very tight. Frustrating!!! I couldn't care less if it wasn't as responsive as a newer car as long as there wasn't play in the steering wheel.

I've talked with one of the local E34 M5 guys, and he said that the M5 yahoo group found out that even rebuilding the boxes with stock bearings doesn't fix the issue, because apparently the box itself, and other internal 'hard parts', wear to the point that a new stock-size bearing doesn't fit tightly enough. Supposedly one of the M5 yahoo group guys has found a source for the metric half-sizes, so that you could buy the bearings 1/2 mm larger in order to get the tight press fit back.

I haven't researched this myself yet, and it sounds a bit 'off', but if fixing the nut/shaft on my car and re-adjusting the box doesn't take care of it, I'll be tearing down my spare box to see what I can do.

A true fix for this, would be getting a set of caster plates for the front suspension. Driver feels steering though the negative/positive angle of the caster. Caster is the angle inwich the strut is verticaly viewed from the side of the car. IE, if the looking at the driver side of the car, and the top of the strut is further back than the bottom is (meaning it has a negative angle of caster) this will produce more feel for the driver through the steering wheel. I beleive i had 2 degrees stock when i had my car on the alignment rack. 10 second drag cars usually have 6-8 degrees of caster. And FYI, and Rail car such as a top fuel car, traveling up over 300+ has 30+ degrees of caster.


Adding caster could potentially help this problem, I agree, but on the E34 you have to consider the rest of the front suspension as well.

There are 2 ways to add caster, right? You can move the stop of the strut toward the rear of the car, or you can move the bottom of the strut toward the front of the car.

On the E34, you don't have a lot of room in the strut tower to move the top of the strut. Those plates allow some movement, but how much....1, maybe 2 degrees tops? Certainly can't hurt, but not a huge improvement.

On the bottom of the strut, you have the LCA (which won't tolerate much of an angle due to the bushing design), and the 'Thrust arm', which locates the hub and lower strut by it's length. You'd have to elongate the thrust arm somehow, and then deal with the fact that the LCA would be binding constantly on the inner bushing.

And of course, none of this would address the center slop issue, or the overboost issue, which are perhaps the worst problems.

Does the nut on the steering column address "play" in the wheel? I don't have any real play in the wheel to speak of.

Just get the Euro M5 steering.


whats the difference?

if you have replaced all the suspension points on the front end, encluding the idler arm, then i would suggest running the same size tires front and rear. 235's on all 4 corners will be plenty of tire.

if that doesn't work then try a little bit of toe out on the front.

Toe out would make it twitcher and lighter, no? We're looking for something heavier and more direct, as I understand. I had a toe-out fixed a couple of weeks ago (before a 1500-mile road trip) that definitely improved handling, though not quite to where I want it.

Kind of, not really. Toe in dulls things down a bunch and makes the front end more stable, but it isn't better handling necessarily. If you like steering to feel slow and stable, sure toe it in a bit (that's how the factory does it). But, it's not going to help steering response. I would shoot for 0 toe with these cars. Best for tire wear, best for ultimate grip, and it will liven up the front end a bit over the toe'd in stock settings. Toe out is a little too aggressive for this car's crappy steering mechanics.