I know this has been discussed before, but i wouldn't beat the horse if i really thought it was dead! I have an '86 635 that would like more power. Here's what i've found out so far. TCD turbo will run me to about 300hp for a reasonable cost. I've not heard a lot of detail about cooling issues or reliability, but they seem to have a good reputation for a reliable product. Next step would be an LS1. Minimal solid detail out there. I know Mwrench has done it, but there is precious little info available as to the difficulties involved. I have a welder/fabricator/machinist who has BMW experienc who is willing to take it on, but i'd like to know just how big the rat's nest is before i jump into it. On the upside, the hp potential of an easy 350 -400 is very attractive. Does anyone have any solid info beyond just opinion?

From a cost perpective, the two are pretty equal, for a stage 2. In terms of power, they are about equal. In terms of upgradeability, they are about equal. The main difference is the power delivery.

Another significant difference is the ease of use. As you noticed, the LS1 swap would be more of a project than a daily, since it would be a frankenstein. You would be one of the only ones that could fix it. In comparison, the TCD kit does allow others to fix it, it is a complete kit, and will generally give less headaches during the install phase.

That said, from a max power standpoint, the LS1 wins easily, mostly because of the gargantuan displacement. You could add FI to the LS1 and make a drag car, assuming the E24 chassis can hold up.

I know someone who has done the LS1 into an M635. Think he is still ironing a few last bugs out, but is floored by the car.

For plug and play and as much power as you probably should put on the platform, it is hard to beat TCD...

I saw a neat series of clips on youtube. Geezersgarage. the guy is putting a 5.3l LS1 based engine in a 635 and videoing the whole thing. so far he's just focused on the electronics of getting the engine running outside of it's oem environment. it will be interesting to see how he adresses the main items such as exhaust routing and getting around the steering box.

I've been researching turbo charging my six for over a month now. TCD appears to have a corner on the market for now. I don't want to buy from someone that is the only game in town, at least for a kit, without doing more research. I have found a few good information sources that are turbo specialists and I'm pretty convinced I can build a better, more tunable turbo system for less money than what TCD has. I'm not saying they aren't good, from what I hear they are the bomb so if you read this Todd, kudos to you.

Miller Performance is coming out with a kit later this summer and I might wait to see the full details before making a decision but Theirs is limited to the existing ECU which has some drawbacks but they have found a creative way around it using 12 injectors, yes 12 of them. That sounds like a chunk of change to me. Anyway, that's all I know so far. I'm still compiling a parts list.
Keep me post on what you find.
Regards,

Dwight

Thanks for the info on Miller Performance. they look like a good group. It's always nice to have a couple of options. No disrepect to TCD implied. they seem to have a good product that could probably give me all i really need for under $5k. But just how much do i really need?? Those of you who "know someone who has done an LS1" could you get them to respond? I'd love some first hand feedback. from Mwrench's pictures, it looks like the steering box is a real problem, plus i'm wondering if the new hedman titetubes headers for the ls1 could solve some of the install problems. Also, if i do go for the LS1, what could i expect to get from the sale of a solid 75k m30 motor and auto trans?

TURBO!:eyecrazy jeez it's a no brainer-if you want a v8 buy a mustang or vette etc. the m30 is the heart of the e24 you pull it out for a v8 you'll have no soul. btw i have nothing against American iron they certainly exceed in certain applications but not in a BMW sorry but that just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions:rolleyes

Well if you are gonna try and sell the engine and tranny, you could probably fetch about 1000 at most. The engine, if in really good shape, can be sold for 750 (but average is 500). And an auto tranny in really good shape is good for 300 (average is 200). You might wanna hold onto that motor though. If in the event that your LS1 isnt working or becomes too much of a hassle, sell the v8 and buy a turbo, then install the turbo on the pulled M30. Will be much easier. Not trying to say the LS1 wont work, but just in case, you wouldnt want to have to buy another M30 if you have a good one. But sell the autobox haha, if you put an M30 back in, make it a 5spd.

-Jeff

Take it from an OLD hot rodder, beef up the M30 and turbo it if you have to have more horsepower. I say this from lots of experience. Some of the list, 289 in Ford Cortina (the body couldn't take it), LT-1 in Chev Vega (12.39 fastest time only because I didn't have bigger slicks), body also couldn't take it.
When you start to swap, as said, you are building Frankenstein's monster. No one in their right mind will touch it. Oh, I forgot my Jeep: 1954 Willys CJ3-B, Chev 305, Muncie M-21, Dana 44 Locker-full floater (rear), Dana 25 locker front. This is my baby and a can of worms that only I can figure out and fix.
Don't do the LS-1 thing, you'll regret it in the long run.

What's the word on the 540 v8 swap?

What's the word on the 540 v8 swap?

540 v8 swap, is the only v8 i'll consider swapping into any bmw it's been done before in a e28 with good results i understand, but it's going to be very laborious more expensive still than a ls1 and tcd/turbo....imop you cannot beat the tcd s1-3 kits for price, power, practicality, reliability, drive-ability, etc. m30 motors were made to be turbo'd with they're over engineering and lower compression.(us-models) plus if you plan on keeping or selling this car you will be far better off with the turbo:)
-danR.

TURBO!:eyecrazy jeez it's a no brainer-if you want a v8 buy a mustang or vette etc. the m30 is the heart of the e24 you pull it out for a v8 you'll have no soul. btw i have nothing against American iron they certainly exceed in certain applications but not in a BMW sorry but that just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions:rolleyes

No, I whole-heartedly agree, being a carbed-V8 Mustang owner myself. I've been wondering lately if I was the only one left who thought this whole "LS1 into ______" was an abomination. And, no, I wouldn't feel it was right if it were a Ford, Mopar, or Ferrari engine either. I think doing that thing is missing the whole point of owning a BMW, or whatever other marque, really.

My M6 is not the quickest thing in the garage...in fact it is the slowest thing in the garage. It sits between a former 11 second car that should be into the 10s when next it goes down the quarter mile and my 12 second car. But the high RPM pull, and that sexy German growl at full song is just absolutely erotic, pardon my honesty, and to think of it being accompanied by a singing turbo makes my toes curl with glee (yeah, I know S38, not M30, but still...).

So, yeah, I'd vote turbo. Upon seeing a non-BMW engine in a 6er engine compartment, I'd just simply walk away. There's more to life than simply being fast.

No, I whole-heartedly agree, being a carbed-V8 Mustang owner myself. I've been wondering lately if I was the only one left who thought this whole "LS1 into ______" was an abomination. And, no, I wouldn't feel it was right if it were a Ford, Mopar, or Ferrari engine either. I think doing that thing is missing the whole point of owning a BMW, or whatever other marque, really.

My M6 is not the quickest thing in the garage...in fact it is the slowest thing in the garage. It sits between a former 11 second car that should be into the 10s when next it goes down the quarter mile and my 12 second car. But the high RPM pull, and that sexy German growl at full song is just absolutely erotic, pardon my honesty, and to think of it being accompanied by a singing turbo makes my toes curl with glee (yeah, I know S38, not M30, but still...).

So, yeah, I'd vote turbo. Upon seeing a non-BMW engine in a 6er engine compartment, I'd just simply walk away. There's more to life than simply being fast.

I saw a Dinan turbo S38 M6 in person once. It was quite interesting to look at how they did it. The whole thing was one big piggyback system, including knock sensors. I bet that would give you quite a thrill.

All the really high hp BMW motors are turbo S38's. There's a few with more than 1000hp running around.

I do believe the phrase 'tears of rapture' would be most appropriate. Turrrbo.

I saw a Dinan turbo S38 M6 in person once. It was quite interesting to look at how they did it. The whole thing was one big piggyback system, including knock sensors. I bet that would give you quite a thrill.

All the really high hp BMW motors are turbo S38's. There's a few with more than 1000hp running around.

Was it Clay's car (the white M6 w/ the Dinan setup) you saw? He's liking that car a lot right about now... One of the cars I'm looking forward to at SharkFest...

I've seen several turbo M6's (and one M635 in their shop) by Dinan, and it appears to me they evolved their design a bit over the years...

Was it Clay's car (the white M6 w/ the Dinan setup) you saw? He's liking that car a lot right about now... One of the cars I'm looking forward to at SharkFest...

I've seen several turbo M6's (and one M635 in their shop) by Dinan, and it appears to me they evolved their design a bit over the years...

It was indeed white, I was at Strictly German getting some bits, and he was looking for a dash trim part. Made me wish I had a camera at the time.

Well if you are looking for a turbo setup i have a complete setup for sale right now. It is a Custom, Adjustable 745i based setup with all the lines ad a larger oil cooler, and Huge Front Mount intercooler with 3" piping. Feel free to email me if you are interested. I also have a New Old Stock JB Racing 8lb Flywheel for the M30 as well as many other performance mods.

Personally I would do the M30 also since you can get another engine from $300+ If you blow up the old one

Jared --- (859) 224-9551
ConcreteJunglePerformance@yahoo.com

I got hooked watching the Youtube videos of Geezer'sGarage. He's putting a 5.3L LS1 based truck motor/trans into an '87 5 series so it should translate into the E24 just fine. Plus he's working with MWrench to sort out the bugs. I'm sorry if I offend the 'purists', but the thought of jumping my 635 into the 400hp range with plenty of low end torque, no turbo-lag, and 50lb less weight on the front end while improving gas mileage as a bonus just sounds great. How much is too much? If i do this, I'll let you know, but if you find someone with a 400+hp e24, I bet he'll be smiling!

I agree I would do the engine swap too because a lighter All Aluminum NA setup is a nice thought since this M30 engine is only SOHC which is a drawback and really the only reason i keep on saying I am going to sell mine all the time.

If I could make a C5 or C6 Vette engine swap a reality in a few weeks total MAX then I would be all over that with a t56 6 speed trans. YUMM

Parts would be cheaper for rebuilds, gaskets, etc, who cares about it supposedly being wrong in the eyes of other enthusiasts as that is a great engine and great platform combo.

Last night I saw a c5 vette engine and 6 speed in a old Volvo 740 RWD Brick Wagon. That thing was silly and ran 11.9 on a 7psi twin turbo c5 vette engine setup. Problem was the guy could not get any traction. :)

Peep www.streetfire.net and search for " volvette " for vids of that car

Jared