I'm looking to get something worth buying and wanted to get some "hands on" opinions. Which should I go with?

i'm a huge klasse fan... every car i do ends with klasse AIO and SG, unless specified by owner after we discuss it
looks good and lasts very long

EDIT... i think i posted in your other thread... you should really search here and autopia.org because similar questions have been asked 10000s of times

klasse AIO is a good paint cleaning product.

i found the klasse sealant glaze is awful to work with. there are other sealants that work just as well and are 10 times easier to work with. it can be really tough to wipe the stuff off after applying it. using a quick detailer will help, but i dont think you should need to use one product to remove another. i am partial to the EX-P sealant made by Poorboy's. it works beautifully, spreads on nicely, and wipes off easily. i let it cure for 30 minutes between the two layers i use. i have also heard wonderful things about products by Wolfgang and Mernzerna, but i have not personally used any products by Wolfgang, and have only use menzerna's finishing glaze on top of poorboy's ex-p sealant.

if i remember correctly, Sealant Glaze directions say to let it sit 24 hours between layers. it has been a while since ive used the stuff though. anyways, i promise you that the same results can be acheived with other products in an hour. i was really disappointed by this stuff. sure, it works great. but its such a waste of time. as you can tell, i am not a big fan of this stuff and honestly couldnt recommend it to anyone.

klasse AIO is a good paint cleaning product.

the klasse sealant glaze is awful to work with. there are other sealants that work just as well and are 10 times easier to work with. i am partial to the EX-P sealant made by Poorboy's. it works beautifully, spreads on nicely, and wipes off easily. i let it cure for 30 minutes between the two layers i use.

Sealant Glaze directions say to let it sit 24 hours between layers. the same results can be acheived with other products in an hour. i was really disappointed by this stuff. sure, it works great. but its such a waste of time.

put SG on, wait 15-60 mins (however long you have) wipe off lightly (you will still have streaks but don't worry for now) then wipe off using some QD... QD take the streaks right out... i mostlyl use the sonus acrylic spritz, which has similar qualities as klasse, so i don't worry about anything mixing, but others QDs have worked for me just as well

ha, you quoted me before i added the part about me not liking to use one product to remove another.

to each their own. i will say the stuff did leave a nice shine. lots of people seem to love the stuff. the sealant i use doesnt leave any streaks at all, and doesnt require a quick detailer to remove. i just didnt feel the results were worth the time and effort it took, since they could be acheived with so much less effort and time.

PM me if you want to buy my SG from me. i probably wont be needing again. ;)

ha, you quoted me before i added the part about me not liking to use one product to remove another.

to each their own. i will say the stuff did leave a nice shine. lots of people seem to love the stuff. the sealant i use doesnt leave any streaks at all, and doesnt require a quick detailer to remove. i just didnt feel the results were worth the time and effort it took, since they could be acheived with so much less effort and time.

PM me if you want to buy my SG from me. i probably wont be needing again. ;)

how much and how much ?? (quantity and $$)
my zip is 60630
oh and how old is it ?

EDIT... you can PM me about that

pm sent :)



oh, and to the original poster... i haven't used anything by P21S, im not even all that familiar with their product line. i HAVE heard wonderful things about their carnauba wax though!

Thanks guy. I appreciate all the tips... It seems I need to keep reading on to find the best results.

From reading into it more it looks like my process needs to be: Wash, Polish, Glaze, Wax, Seal, Finishing Spray??? Does this seem correct? I'm working on the best combo of products to fill the blanks still.

From reading into it more it looks like my process needs to be: Wash, Polish, Glaze, Wax, Seal, Finishing Spray??? Does this seem correct? I'm working on the best combo of products to fill the blanks still.

that's not really correct... the process should be:

1. wash (don't dry because you'll clay it and you'll need lube anyway)
2. clay (some people choose to wash and dry after claying, i normally just clay and wipe off the lube residue, since i'll be polishing after anyway)
3. dry off all the water (doorsills, etc.)
4. polish (meguiar's, menzerna, etc..)
5. glaze/sealant (klasse SG, meg's #20 or 21)
6. wax

idk what you mean by finishing spray, but i imagine it's the quick detailer... that is used between washes to keep dust and similar stuff off... if the car is dirty, you shouldn't use just the quick detailer, rather wash it, since you'll just introduce swirl marks in your paint
oh and lasty, seal consists of glaze/sealant and wax... sealants like klasse SG will outlast any carnauba wax but to many people the carnauba looks better/deeper so they opt to wax their cars monthy instead of use SG every 4-6 months... many also top sealant with a wax

does this make sense ??

Thanks lecchilo... I don't have the money to make if faster right now... and I love the looks I get when it's clean so I need to perfect myself before the car gets work... Thanks for correcting my procedure... I think i'm getting closer all the time...if I were to throw in a swirl remover... where do I do that?

Thanks lecchilo... I don't have the money to make if faster right now... and I love the looks I get when it's clean so I need to perfect myself before the car gets work... Thanks for correcting my procedure... I think i'm getting closer all the time...if I were to throw in a swirl remover... where do I do that?

swirl remover is a polish

From reading into it more it looks like my process needs to be: Wash, Polish, Glaze, Wax, Seal, Finishing Spray??? Does this seem correct? I'm working on the best combo of products to fill the blanks still.

seal before glaze & wax

just to clear things up, sealant and glaze are two different things. Klasse makes a product called "Sealant Glaze", which acts mostly as a sealant. most other 'glaze' products are just swirl fillers - a temporary fix for blemishes that couldnt be polished out.

I always put the PS21/P100 on top of the third coat of SG. Sg comes off better if you are in cooler weather. About 55* F. Also, you do not have to let the SG dry! I wipe on about 3 lines of it with a pad and follow up, with the other hand, with a MF. It has a CURE time, not a dry time. If you use the amount suggested, you won't have much on the paint to wipe off.

PS 21 makes some great stuff from what I have seen. I use the gel wheel cleaner when I do winter/summer swaps. Cleans them right up no matter how nasty they are. (The PS21 wax and P100 are the same.)

What do you guys think of Meguiers Wax Cleaner?? What about Mothers Pure Caranuba Wax Step 3?

I always put the PS21/P100 on top of the third coat of SG. Sg comes off better if you are in cooler weather. About 55* F. Also, you do not have to let the SG dry! I wipe on about 3 lines of it with a pad and follow up, with the other hand, with a MF. It has a CURE time, not a dry time. If you use the amount suggested, you won't have much on the paint to wipe off.

PS 21 makes some great stuff from what I have seen. I use the gel wheel cleaner when I do winter/summer swaps. Cleans them right up no matter how nasty they are. (The PS21 wax and P100 are the same.)

i don't understand what you mean by cur etime but not dry time... you apparently wipe it off about 5-10 secs after you put it on the paint... doesn't that just take it off leaving nothing... what am i missing here ?

From the detailing 101 sticky at the top. A must read.....all of it.

"Q: Are cure time and dry time the same thing?
A: No. Dry time is the time UNBUFFED product sits on your paint before buffing it off. Cure time is the time BETWEEN buffed coats of a product."

AND

"How to: Properly Apply and Remove Klasse SG


Make sure you have washed your car prior to SG’ing.

In order to apply SG, you should do the following:

1. Take a terry covered foam applicator and spray it with water. Squeeze it as much as you can so that most of the water gone. All you should have is a damp applicator. This will make the SG more pliable.

2. Apply a couple of drops of SG to your applicator and apply it to a section of your car (1/3 of the hood, half of the roof, etc) in a front to back motion. Once you have covered the whole section with SG, immediately wipe off the residue with a DRY MF towel in a front to back motion.

3. Repeat step 2 for every section until the whole car is done.


Notes:

- As mentioned before, wipe the SG off immediately, no dry time is necessary.

- The SG should wipe off very easily leaving behind a slick, smooth, and glossy finish.

- You should use no more than 1oz. of SG per coat on a regular size car (BMW 3 Series, Mercedes-Benz C-Class)

- Only perform step 1 one time, before applying SG to the first panel. You do NOT need to spritz your applicator with water before applying SG to each section. Once you apply SG to a couple of sections the applicator will be wet enough with SG, negating the need for more water.

-Do not use any water or QD to aid in removal of SG. This will just make the klasse haze down the road. I've also experienced this.

-Wait AT LEAST 24 hours before applying another coat of SG. SG needs time to cure and bond to your paint surface. I would personally wait a week. If you've driven the car ANYWHERE, then wash it before applying the next layer, or else you will just re-swirl your car.

-Put on three coats of SG, and you will be good to go."


Hope this helps.

^^makes sense... i never had any problems with hazing or durability or shine letting it dry for a while then removing with QD... i will however try your method on the first coat or two in the spring and see how it goes

I love the Klasse twins

Just picked up some Megs #16 to finish it off

SG is only a pain when people let it sit. As said above its easiest to remove before it dries.

SG is only a pain when people let it sit. As said above its easiest to remove before it dries.


I've had better success with SG if I wipe it on then wipe it off right away. The MF towel that was saturated with SG should even it out and not cause streaks.

OMG, as time passes I see more people that make mistakes on applying the Klasse Twins... First of all, not trying to be an a**, but the products are NOT HARD TO APPLY... The most common mistake on using these products is applying too much of them, which what gives you a hard time taking it off... Applying the Klasse Twins is NOT LIKE APPLYING paste wax. It only takes me a good 10 -12 minutes to apply/buff off the Klasse AIO, and 5-8 minutes to apply/buff off the SG BY HAND. AIO is a wipe-on-wipe-off, while the SG has to be left until it is dry.

I also made the mistake of using too much of the products the first few times I tried it... After searching on how other detailers apply them, I found out that thinner is better...

Tell me how am I not gonna love Klasse after with these results;

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/blink21me/swirl%20removal%20on%20a%20%20black%20car/DSC01512.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/blink21me/detailed%20Audi%20S8/DSC01517.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/blink21me/detailed%20E36%20M%20Cosmos/DSC01534.jpg

Also, you do not have to let the SG dry! I wipe on about 3 lines of it with a pad and follow up, with the other hand, with a MF. It has a CURE time, not a dry time. If you use the amount suggested, you won't have much on the paint to wipe off.I don't know whose procedure you're following but it says on the back label of the SG, "Allow to dry". I you imediately wipe it off RIGHT after you apply it then you're not making it work, and you're not "glazing" the paint...

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. The SG has become more of a pain than need be. If you check with Autopia.org you can see some of the best detailer have grown a natural hate for the product. Yes, its true you can find ways of removing it and making it look great. However watching other detailers techniques (and mine) eventually a wipe smear will appear. This can be seen when your car becomes moist, and eventually stains will appear from the exposure to the sun. And if this product is so easy to use (in your opinion) why have companies like Sonus come out with quick detailers that help remove this PIA of a product?

Grant it, Ive had great results with SG. But is it worth the pain in the ass to do it properly ? Hell no.

If your customer is looking for perfection with great looks, use only a paste wax. On the contrary, if he/she is wanting a long lasting protection than SG might be your answer. But IMO, Klasse is not the SG id like to work with.

For 95% of my clients we agree to only use paste wax as protection. SG gives the paint a plastic look, rather than that deep shine we all strive for. Thus, I'll stick with my pinnacle, for both myself...and my customers.

Are you saying Sonus made a product that its main purpose is to remove the SG? Or they just have something that "helps" remove the SG? <-- If this is the case then that product is not worth a statement against the SG...

I do lurk in Autopia and I have seen some people who dislike Klasse, however I see more people who like the products...

About wipe smears, why is it that it only "eventually" shows just like you said? It's because it's not applied right... That makes it very clear that it's a detailer's mistake, otherwise, if it's the product itself then there'll be smears all over the car... I don't get smears at all and my car moists in the morning, but I admit I used to, the key is the applicator being used and to apply it thin & equally.

In fact I don't use wax at allon my car and tend to not on any other cars, but if the customer asks for it, I do apply wax... They do ask why, and I do tell them, all wax contains so much oil, and of course everything covered with oil will look so wet and shiny, but the question is does it really provide any good protection? Answer is NO. Yes the car will look fantastic and will show no imperfection after you applied wax, that's because the swirls are only filled. And how long does wax last? A week or less? It gets evaporated within a day or two under the sun. So where is the protection on that? And who wants a one-week-shine, anyways? On top of all that, wax makes your car dusty, OIL ATTRACTS DUST. It's a dust magnet. I won't agree if you say you don't notice the car dusts at all... Leave it inside a storage garage and look at an angle, I highly doubt you'll see no dust... All it takes is a car wash and the deepness the paste wax achieved is gone, while with Klasse Twins, I can wash my car 15 times within 6 months and it will still look as if I just detailed it again...

I don't know about your "plastic look" comment, but on any car I apply the Klasse Twins on, they look like they've been layered with another coat of clear... Take this for example;

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/blink21me/detailed%20Prelude/DSC01563.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/blink21me/detailed%20Prelude/DSC01561.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/blink21me/detailed%20Prelude/DSC01560.jpg

this Prelude is green of some sort, when I was done I parked it under the shade and when the customer saw it he asked me why does it look more like black than green and what "wax" wax did I use... I laughed at him and let him pulled it under direct sunlight... He asked me again what "wax" I used so I told him I didn't use any, and showed him the Klasse Twins...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/blink21me/detailing/DSC01611.jpg
He even asked me if it was some German stuff :lol , and where to get it from...

So is it worth learning how to apply the Klasse Twins properly? Let me ask you, would you rather spend 15 minutes to paste-wax your car for a 2-5 day protection, or would you rather spend 20-30 minutes to Klasse your car for a protection that lasts 6 months or more, and on top of that a mirror finish for 6 months or more???

Before I forget... The deepness of the paint is highly achievable by polishing. The abrassives, cleaners, polishes, compunds, etc being used these days are so great in bringing out the best out of your paint... so far I've had the best results with Presta...

I love P21s, I use it over Poorboy's Ex-P sealant. Great results. I have never used Klasse products though.

Yes, FK#425 was produced to help create better results for SG (not just Klasse).

When I started detailing, I looked purely for durability and longevity. Although my standards havent changed much, the results indeed have. I used the Klasse twins for 3 years, first getting poor results...than eventually perfecting it. I than became an apprentice for a highly looked upon detailer (whom gives tech session for Ferrari). His stance, was for the garage queens we strive only too perfection. On the soccer moms cars, we keep them looking nice for as long as possible. This being an appropriate time to use SG.

In switching over to using only paste wax, my results have been satisfactory. Yes, wax does contain oil...but so does everything else you apply to your car. What do you think Klasse AIO is? Just some natural mineral we apply to clean our paint. When I used to do those 2-3 day jobs on my car (lack of time because of school) my car collected a plethora of dust. In which I than had to clean off with quick detailer. With wax, I still need to wipe off the car when I come home from school every month or two, but certainly no more than when I had was using the Klasse twins. I dont speak out of ignorance when debating these products, rather personal preference. For some detailers, their eyes see the SG as "the best result", to others its more of an eye sore.

And one other thing, my last coat of Pinacle paste wax was applied before my last track day 3 months ago ("the one in which lasts the least amount of time") And my paint looks fantastic, in fact, it still beads close to what it did when I first applied it.

Also, check out some of these great detailers. I dont see Klasse SG mentioned anywhere in some of these awsome results.

http://autopia.org/forum/click-brag/86495-detailed-6-cars-5-days-2-ferraris-jag-2-mercs-porsche-51-pics.html

http://autopia.org/forum/click-brag/86498-2003-audi-tt-extreme-zaino-detail.html

Id just keep an open mind to the different opinions among your peers. :)

just like you said, personal preference, not a lot of detailers use Klasse, I give you that. Some may have had bad results with Klasse due to false application procedure, I also give you that... But not because those people have had unsatisfactory results with Klasse doesn't mean they can talk trash about it and act as know-it-all guys, I'm not saying you do, it's just that I've seen a lot of people who didn't like it the first time they use it ~ then they'd talk crap about it like they created a much better product themselves that outperforms Klasse...

I'm sure there are many better products than Klasse, I just haven't tried as much because I still have a lot of Klasse AIO/SG left on the shelf, and I do get good results with them... I'm not a full-time detailer and I don't have any intent to be one so I am not that of a product-freak to test as much as I can... but I do have a wide-open mind especially when it comes to detailing products, that's why I don't criticize one nor say something is the best...

In the detailing world, I don't see how car make is a difference. How will you approach detailing a Ferrari and a Hyundai? Will there be a big difference within your procedures? Detailing a paint is detailing a paint, whether or not it's a Ferrari, Jaguar, Porsche, & what not, it's the same type of clear coat and there's no special procedures/products specific for each make... Don't get me wrong, I see your point, a great detailer gets his hands on higher-end cars, but it's not the products...

Have you done a test between Klasse Twins and your Pinnacle paste wax? Have you tried them on the panel at the same time? If not, I suggest you try it... Apply both on the same panel within divided regions... Then leave it on the garage for 3 days or so, I guarantee you'll see what I'm talking about even after just one day. I've done it, I divided a panel for S100, Pinnacle Signature Series, and Klasse Twins. After 24 hours I could really tell the difference in dusting. The S100 and the Pinnacle had about the same amount of dust on them, while the Klasse Twins was close to 100% dust-free... When I get a chance, I'll do the same thing again, with pictures...

Have you done a test between Klasse Twins and your Pinnacle paste wax? Have you tried them on the panel at the same time? If not, I suggest you try it... Apply both on the same panel within divided regions... Then leave it on the garage for 3 days or so, I guarantee you'll see what I'm talking about even after just one day. I've done it, I divided a panel for S100, Pinnacle Signature Series, and Klasse Twins. After 24 hours I could really tell the difference in dusting. The S100 and the Pinnacle had about the same amount of dust on them, while the Klasse Twins was close to 100% dust-free... When I get a chance, I'll do the same thing again, with pictures...

Very cool you've been testing. I used to do that, and still do with products I have yet to try. (I still have thousands of dollars to spend on products before that happens, which will never realistically happen). My car used to be my way of showing customers different packages, results etc. One time I split my hood up into the different swirl removals, and wax's.

We all have plenty of learning to do, all detailers do...no matter how many years they have worked or what cars they have detailed. Technology is changing, and so are the procedures.

Also, Id like to mention that effort should never change whether it be for a beater oxidized Toyota Tercel, Hyundai or for that matter a Ferrari. The only thing that changes is products. As a detailer, you hold the same standards for a crap car or an exotic. But I wouldn't mind detailing Ferrari's all day.;)

Best of luck too you and your detailing:)

it's the same type of clear coat and there's no special procedures/products specific for each make... Don't get me wrong, I see your point, a great detailer gets his hands on higher-end cars, but it's not the products...

Strongly disagree, every base color / clearcoat will be different ranging from the manufacturer, who has sprayed the paint, and which the metal surface the paint sits on.

Products make a difference, what I would argue is how the Detailers uses a product. Whether regular maintenance for Carnauba Waxes or long term setups with Sealants, it falls on the customers expectations and Detailers goals.

Find something you like, and use it.

Strongly disagree, every base color / clearcoat will be different ranging from the manufacturer, who has sprayed the paint, and which the metal surface the paint sits on.

Products make a difference, what I would argue is how the Detailers uses a product. Whether regular maintenance for Carnauba Waxes or long term setups with Sealants, it falls on the customers expectations and Detailers goals.

Find something you like, and use it.Ahh yes, I forgot to throw in my 2 cents for that. Id have to agree with you.