This is one of Nick's pulls.

Rogo

http://www.trolltuner.com/viggen/Video/3rd-gear.AVI

Impressive, but the kill would be?.....

Me.

Rogo

What an ugly cluster

What an ugly cluster

Funny, I think the same of yours-the E36 is one of the ugliest I've ever seen.

Rogo

Funny, I think the same of yours-the E36 is one of the ugliest I've ever seen.

Rogo


haha. Easy there guy. Its just a cluster, no need to be so defensive. Be seriously that cluster is pretty beat.;) I will say that viggen sounds pretty sweet!

haha seriously dude. nice saab though!

Looks like it was pulling pretty good!
-Ted

nice pull, must feel nice! nasty gauges though man, i dont see how e36 could be compared to that.

Funny, I think the same of yours-the E36 is one of the ugliest I've ever seen.

Rogo

uh oh :eatpop:

well i just have to say my 2 cents..i just made the switch from saab to bmw..i am known on the saab forums as nastysaab i had a stage 4 saab ng900 boosting 29 psi would kill new m3's buy 10 15 car lengths..the viggens are fast stock 230 horse ..my saab was making about 310 from a 30mph roll almost nothing could take it just like bmw saab are all upper rpm..but i always wanted a bmw and know matter how much money i put into the suspension on the saab it doesn;t compair to my stock m tec suspension. i love saab and will own a viggen one day but till then ill be toying with my bimmer

Funny, I think the same of yours-the E36 is one of the ugliest I've ever seen.

Rogo

C'mon...that cluster looks like it's borrowed from the GM parts bin....moreso the parts bin that's labeled 'Generic Mini-van instrument clusters'

Yeah that cluster is horrible...and the "redline" is really low...

how could you compare that cluster to a e36's?

Btw, what size motor is that...it pulls really well but sounds like a corrolla hahaha

viggen has a 2.3 turbo motor

sorry but that is a pretty beat gauge cluster. However, the cluster has nothing to do with the cars performance.....turbo FTW.

I like this cluster

http://www.swedespeed.com/gallery/generated//FWD%20and%20AWD/S60/R%20AWD/Interior/001__scaled_600.jpg

I don't like the gauges much either ... but that's not what I look for in a car. I think those Saabs are great looking cars! :thumbup:

50 to 100 in a tiny bit under 10 sec is impressive to you guys?

maybe in a stock saab 50 to 100 in 10 sec but this is a saab viggen which is also tunned i believe it runs low 14's in quarter mile but there shitty drag cars alot off lagg from dead stop but from 25 30 mph on watch out..like i said before i could easily take a new m3 on the highway with my stage 4

Here's a pictures of a 97 M3's cluster-it's all really subjective and a matter of taste but I think this is horrid :devillook ;)

Here's a 4th Gear Pull from the same car 55-105 in 9 seconds.

http://trolltuner.com/viggen/Video/4th-gear.AVI



http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/554733/E36Cluster.jpg


Here's a LB with some wheels-thinking of them instead of the hirch wheels.

Here is a 4th Gear pull of Nicks-just thought I'd include it.



http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/554733/LBLUE2.jpg

Dont hate on the gauges, he has a carbon fiber dash!

is the viggen in these media clips stock?

I don't like the gauges much either ... but that's not what I look for in a car. I think those Saabs are great looking cars! :thumbup:
yah the newer 9-3s are very good looking......My ex-gf has a 9-3 Aero, Convertible, lime green....lol i think its a good looking car - minus the color.
Shes had all types of problems though with the color....apparently it draws negative attention and people have spat on her car on numerous occasions and put sand in the gas tank.....

definately faster than my cars!

i had a stage 4 saab ng900 boosting 29 psi would kill new m3's buy 10 15 car lengths

my saab was making about 310 from a 30mph rolllol wut

Saab's are very cheap and junky compared to other European cars IMO. Similar in quality to Volkswagen.

lol wut
+1.

To be "killing" E46 M3s by 10-15 car lengths with only 310whp...at 29psi? That turbo must be the size of my left testy and way out of it's efficiency range to only be putting down 310whp w/ 29 PSI (just doesn't sound right).

It must have been a typo. Did you mean to type 410whp at 29psi (w/ race gas)?

What an ugly cluster

Traditional saab styling, i think it suits the car very well. I like it :redspot

Saab's are very cheap and junky compared to other European cars IMO. Similar in quality to Volkswagen.
i suppose the e36 is somehow superior?

i suppose the e36 is somehow superior?

DUDE dont you know that BMW is the best car company to ever come out of Europe, not just germany my friend. :buttrock :buttrock :redspot :cool

That car in the video is pretty quick...around 340 BRAKE hp.

Viggens are cool, and have a very stylish interior exceot for the gauges.

I'd still take an ///M over it though...just handles better.

...And that guy with a stage 4 saab with 310 BHP and 29 psi is about right. I had a stage 3 setup on my 9-3 that "Should've" making about 20 psi in 4th and 5th and "should've" been making around 270 BHP. SAABs stock, boost at araounf 13-15 psi anwyways.

I don't see him walking e46 M3s tho...no way, no how.

mods on the saab in the videos?

That seems to be one quick car but theres no way you can say the e36 gauge cluster is ugly. To the guy who was implying bmw's are not superior, I hope you were kidding.

mods on the saab in the videos?

I cant remember which turbo- either Td04-18t or GT series

3'' exhaust turbo to tail pipe
BigTurbo inlet pipe
Big FMIC
3.5 FPR maybe
JE pistons

Nordic ECU tuning.

The m3 cluster is ugly-I drove a hellrot 97m3 and I really didn't like it.
The E46 is a different story and it's what I'm looking at if peak oil doesn't make all this iron uselsess.

Rogo

Nice to see you posting in the thread SB. ;)

Rogo

Can we see your car in 1st & 2nd, or would the steering-wheel get in the way from all the torque steer...

The m3 cluster is ugly-I drove a hellrot 97m3 and I really didn't like it.
The E46 is a different story and it's what I'm looking at if peak oil doesn't make all this iron uselsess.

Rogo

Wait wait wait, you don't like the E36 M3 cluster, but you like the E46? Have you compared the two?

Wait wait wait, you don't like the E36 M3 cluster, but you like the E46? Have you compared the two?

I've ridden with a Jake in his 2005 M3 and I liked it.

Rogo

Can we see your car in 1st & 2nd, or would the steering-wheel get in the way from all the torque steer...

Nope, sorry the steering wheel gets in the way.

I've ridden with a Jake in his 2005 M3 and I liked it.

Rogo

I only ask because they're EXTREMELY similar. Just like all the other BMW instrument clusters the last 25 years.

'it' is the car, I don't base my enjoyment on the gauge cluster-unlike some of the members here.

Most of us have a steering rack clamp/brace, and some have the 6 point subframe brace.

Strange how some BMW members really enjoy putting down cars they've never driven-it's a phenomenon that's very conspicuous within these communities.



Rogo

'it' is the car, I don't base my enjoyment on the gauge cluster-unlike some of the members here.

Most of us have a steering rack clamp/brace, and some have the 6 point subframe brace.

Strange how some BMW members really enjoy putting down cars they've never driven-it's a phenomenon that's very conspicuous within these communities.



Rogo

You know in all fairness I never said anything about your car or any other Saab, and you have no way of knowing what I have driven. As far as "basing your enjoyment on the cluster blah blah blah.." excuse me if I took this statement:

The m3 cluster is ugly-I drove a hellrot 97m3 and I really didn't like it.
The E46 is a different storyto mean you liked the E46 instrument cluster rather than the car as a whole. I don't think that was exactly clear in your writing.

What's with the Saab owners and their ass slow cars that post in this Kills section acting like they're ultra fast because maybe from some certain speed... from a roll... with the wind in the right direction they might be able to slightly walk a stock E46 M3?

Yea... that's an accomplishment for a turbo car running something retarded like 29 psi. Hint... if you're only making 310whp out of a 2.3L engine at ~29 psi, your turbo stopped being efficient LONG before you kept cranking in more boost.

+1.

To be "killing" E46 M3s by 10-15 car lengths with only 310whp...at 29psi? That turbo must be the size of my left testy and way out of it's efficiency range to only be putting down 310whp w/ 29 PSI (just doesn't sound right).

It must have been a typo. Did you mean to type 410whp at 29psi (w/ race gas)?

i think he said from like 30mph

for the record from 70mph to 90mph one of the saab aeros is faster then the carrera 4....turbo really benefits sometimes

Let's put this to rest. I'm not a Saab hater at all. I just sold my 03 95 Aero (owned Saabs for 9 years) because after driving a 335 and an E46 M3 I finally realized what the BMW thing is about. With the Saab I was always hoping it would be impressive and fast. I had to try hard but at times it was. With my 335, it continues to surprise and impress and makes me feel lucky to have it. I make excuses to drive more; as if I were from L.A.

Saabs are, like DEF says, in the exact right conditions (revs, grade, lack of corners) very impressive. It's really only from 40 to 90. They're good cars but Saabs are missing so much that makes a bimmer a bimmer. They lack the same level of quality as a BMW in technology, styling, finish, and most importantly, the drive.

Think of it this way. I paid only 4000 more for my 335 Coupe than my Saab. The difference in the way it makes me feel and all the areas listed above feels like 15000.

Use your imagination to fill in the rest. They just ain't in the same class.

[quote=toplezz328;8644952]well i just have to say my 2 cents..i just made the switch from saab to bmw..i am known on the saab forums as nastysaab i had a stage 4 saab ng900 boosting 29 psi would kill new m3's buy 10 15 car lengths..the viggens are fast stock 230 horse ..my saab was making about 310 from a 30mph roll almost nothing could take it just like bmw saab are all upper rpm..but i always wanted a bmw and know matter how much money i put into the suspension on the saab it doesn;t compair to my stock m tec suspension. i love saab and will own a viggen one day but till then ill be toying with my bimmer[/quote
absolutely agreed with you... i had 5 saabs in my life so far..

BOOOOYYYY ITS A SAAB u got turbo thats probably running 30psi and dont forget the dash its ugly.........

the reason i posted is not to bash bmw,, i love my 328..i agree that the saab cluster is a bit inferior..like i said before i love both saabs and bimmers but the bmw handles so much better and is more stylish but i miss the boost that the saab had..i do plan on supercharging the 328 so im sure ill be all smiles soon..the viigen turbo is small for saabs its a TD04hl-15t with software they boost anywhere from 27 to 31 psi thats with stock injectors and stock intercooler..i'm a bmw owner now and love them i don't want anyone thinking im a hater im not by far..

Let's put this to rest. I'm not a Saab hater at all. I just sold my 03 95 Aero (owned Saabs for 9 years) because after driving a 335 and an E46 M3 I finally realized what the BMW thing is about. With the Saab I was always hoping it would be impressive and fast. I had to try hard but at times it was. With my 335, it continues to surprise and impress and makes me feel lucky to have it. I make excuses to drive more; as if I were from L.A.

Saabs are, like DEF says, in the exact right conditions (revs, grade, lack of corners) very impressive. It's really only from 40 to 90. They're good cars but Saabs are missing so much that makes a bimmer a bimmer. They lack the same level of quality as a BMW in technology, styling, finish, and most importantly, the drive.

Think of it this way. I paid only 4000 more for my 335 Coupe than my Saab. The difference in the way it makes me feel and all the areas listed above feels like 15000.

Use your imagination to fill in the rest. They just ain't in the same class.

Did I just see your car on napa st?

quick car, but i think Saabs are the ugliest cars ever made IMO, look at the older models, they look like hatchback frogs. Not hatin on ur car or anything just my opinion

quick car, but i think Saabs are the ugliest cars ever made IMO, look at the older models, they look like hatchback frogs. Not hatin on ur car or anything just my opinion

My friend has (dont know what year, i think its 02) Saab 9-3 SE hatchback.....i think its a good looking car.....its no slouch either, pretty quick.

Saabs are, like DEF says, in the exact right conditions (revs, grade, lack of corners) very impressive. It's really only from 40 to 90. They're good cars but Saabs are missing so much that makes a bimmer a bimmer. They lack the same level of quality as a BMW in technology, styling, finish, and most importantly, the drive.


I was being slightly facetious. Slightly walking an E46 M3 with a modified 2.3L turbo engine is NOT something to be bragging about. My little 2.0L engine could do it with the stock turbo at much more reasonable boost.

I think these guys just spend too much time in their own little "message board bubble" that they don't even have a real grasp of where their cars fall in the automotive food chain. My Nissan isn't that fast, and it'd absolutely destroy the Saab posted in the video.

It's just funny how they hang out in the kills section of BF.com and talk about how badass their ugly car running retarded boost on a micro turbo is something that we BMW owners can all only aspire to reach one day... hahaha

Agree... The kills section is pretty much a place to show who has the larger cock.

Ive owned a few "classic" 900 turbos and driven/sold some of the newer gen 95, 93 etc. I like Saabs overall. It is very hard to directly compare them to BMWs as they are such a totally different creature. They are quirky cars, true, but they have some really nice attributes. They were right up there with Volvo in Pioneering numerous advances in automotive safety, and they are very forgiving cars for sub-par drivers in crappy conditions.
As for styling, I happen to like the stylng of most Saabs, old and new. They just have their own edgy style to them.
Those who havent spent time in an old classic 900 should. They are fantastically fun cars to drive. Steering feedback and directness that an E36 could only dream about, with more headroom. They are also fairly balanced once you figure you have to trailbrake a little bit. Saabs have long had fantastic seats as well. Spend 6 hours straight in a new 9-5 and the same amount in an E36 and you will see the difference. My main gripe with the new-gen saabs, is the weight imbalance. Even the four cylinder models are so damn front-heavy, it just kills enjoyment in the twisty's.
Great cars for what they are for, just not really a "sport sedan" in the same tradition as BMW.

What an ugly cluster

That cluster really is pretty crappy.

SAABs are slow and ugly.


/thread

no this saab is ugly

http://www.motoweb.pl/tapety/pictures/normal/saab_9-5_2006_1d.jpg

/Thread

I like the look of some of those viggens and of course the cluster is not the thing you should worry about when buying a car but it is something you look at everyday you drive it.

stock a viggen can go 50-100 in 7 seconds, of course you have to go into the redline a little, like it shows in the vid, Id say theyre a little quicker than a stock B5 S4 in this category. They are torque steering little bitches though :)

stock a viggen can go 50-100 in 7 seconds, of course you have to go into the redline a little, like it shows in the vid, Id say theyre a little quicker than a stock B5 S4 in this category. They are torque steering little bitches though :)

That car in the video had a 7,000 RPM limiter...my stage 3 had a REV limiter of 6,500 RPMs...stock is 6,200.

Either way, they're cool cars, but the cluster is a little ugly.

Why are we arguing about a Saab on a bimmer forum? I don't understand where the kill was either. I read the rules on posting the kills section, they seem very straightforward...No BMW, no kill, so why was this posted?

Agree... The kills section is pretty much a place to show who has the larger cock.

rotflmMFao :lol

... that's y i haven't posted in the kill section... mine's only 2"... but when i'm in a saab posting on a bmw forum in the kill section when there is NO kill involved and NO BMW involved, it's another story. dirk diggler, watch out!

Did I just see your car on napa st?

I imagine it was mine. I haven't seen many around here and not one in my color...yet.

Parked by the Sushi place?

The fact is that 54% of Viggen parts are from Germany, 42% from Sweden, so it's more German than anything else.

This isn't true anymore and honestly I don't like any of the newer saabs-test drove a 2006 9-5 aero and 9-3 SS Aero.

The hellrot had the same build quality as the SPG, the o5 felt like the Viggen inside-build quality the same.

I had a chance to run with him tonight.

Rogo

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/554733/E46gaugecluster.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/554733/E46gaugecluster.jpg[/quote]

Sweet:buttrock

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/554733/E46gaugecluster.jpg

Sweet:buttrock[/QUOTE]

FUNNY YOU BROUGHT UP THAT THE PARTS ARE MADE IN EUROPE.MY BUDDY HAS A 2001 AERO WITH 50K MILES AND THE STARTER WENT OUT.I PULLED IT OUT AND IT WAS A DELCO,ALSO THE WHEEL BEARING WENT ON THE DRIVERS SIDE ALSO GM PART#,LEAKS OIL FROM THE CAM SEALS ON THE SIDE OF THE HEAD AND THE FIRST CAT BROKE UP AND CLOGGED HE SECOND ONE....UTTER POS IMO

The m3 cluster is ugly-I drove a hellrot 97m3 and I really didn't like it.
The E46 is a different story and it's what I'm looking at if peak oil doesn't make all this iron uselsess.

Rogo

You do know they have forums for Saab owners right?

I was being slightly facetious. Slightly walking an E46 M3 with a modified 2.3L turbo engine is NOT something to be bragging about. My little 2.0L engine could do it with the stock turbo at much more reasonable boost.

I think these guys just spend too much time in their own little "message board bubble" that they don't even have a real grasp of where their cars fall in the automotive food chain. My Nissan isn't that fast, and it'd absolutely destroy the Saab posted in the video.

It's just funny how they hang out in the kills section of BF.com and talk about how badass their ugly car running retarded boost on a micro turbo is something that we BMW owners can all only aspire to reach one day... hahaha

Best...post...ever...you tell em Def. :buttrock

I imagine it was mine. I haven't seen many around here and not one in my color...yet.

Parked by the Sushi place?
Sushi Ran? I think there is a tan one at the north end of caledonia (napa st).
How long have you lived in sausalito?

Sorry to the op but since its not really a kill anyhow I dont feel bad for cluttering up your thread...:D

C'mon...that cluster looks like it's borrowed from the GM parts bin....moreso the parts bin that's labeled 'Generic Mini-van instrument clusters'
+1

I really have to add my 2 cents to this thread:

The m3 cluster is ugly-I drove a hellrot 97m3 and I really didn't like it.
The E46 is a different story and it's what I'm looking at if peak oil doesn't make all this iron uselsess.

Rogo
They are the same damn cluster, minus some chrome rings for the E36.


What's with the Saab owners and their ass slow cars that post in this Kills section acting like they're ultra fast because maybe from some certain speed... from a roll... with the wind in the right direction they might be able to slightly walk a stock E46 M3?

Yea... that's an accomplishment for a turbo car running something retarded like 29 psi. Hint... if you're only making 310whp out of a 2.3L engine at ~29 psi, your turbo stopped being efficient LONG before you kept cranking in more boost.
Exactly... check out a 4g63 or srdet20


i think he said from like 30mph

for the record from 70mph to 90mph one of the saab aeros is faster then the carrera 4....turbo really benefits sometimes
ROFL... where'd you get that from a magazine posting 5th gear pulls....... Seriously?



Think of it this way. I paid only 4000 more for my 335 Coupe than my Saab. The difference in the way it makes me feel and all the areas listed above feels like 15000.

Plus your 05 saab was really a rebadged GM.


I was being slightly facetious. Slightly walking an E46 M3 with a modified 2.3L turbo engine is NOT something to be bragging about. My little 2.0L engine could do it with the stock turbo at much more reasonable boost.

I think these guys just spend too much time in their own little "message board bubble" that they don't even have a real grasp of where their cars fall in the automotive food chain. My Nissan isn't that fast, and it'd absolutely destroy the Saab posted in the video.

It's just funny how they hang out in the kills section of BF.com and talk about how badass their ugly car running retarded boost on a micro turbo is something that we BMW owners can all only aspire to reach one day... hahaha


PLUS ONE... and to add to this, the bf.c kills section sucks!!! nobody with FI really posts on there, so all the kills suck.... so if you are posting on bf.c about how fast your car is, trying to throw it in a bunch of ppl's faces about how their n/a car's are slow, which everyone on here should know anyway... :rolleyes

+1

lol.. no way dude.. it has a BUILT IN "BOOST GAUGE"

It rolled with Jake-it'll walk you lad.

Rogo

It rolled with Jake-it'll walk you lad.

Rogo

Who are you talking about walking, and what car did your Mustard wagon "roll with?"

stock a viggen can go 50-100 in 7 seconds, of course you have to go into the redline a little, like it shows in the vid, Id say theyre a little quicker than a stock B5 S4 in this category. They are torque steering little bitches though :)

I don't buy that. Say they go 0-60 in 6sec being generous...that mean it will take 13 sec from a standtill to hit 100. Now, you said 50 to 100 so it should take longer. This stock viggen isn't faster than srt4s on the highway then. Doubt that. What numbers do they put out stock? I don't see one running in the mid-low 13s at just over 100mph

I don't buy that. Say they go 0-60 in 6sec being generous...that mean it will take 13 sec from a standtill to hit 100. Now, you said 50 to 100 so it should take longer. This stock viggen isn't faster than srt4s on the highway then. Doubt that. What numbers do they put out stock? I don't see one running in the mid-low 13s at just over 100mph

They are actually faster than that Porsche 50-70 or whatever it is...says SAAB.

Viggens are faster than most people think. Stock they are SUPPOSED to make 230hp/240ft/lbs. They usually put that to the ground though. They actually make around 260hp/270ft/lbs.

They are under-rated out of the factory. It's a "rule" I guess that a FWD car at the Viggen's weight shouldn't have more than 230 HP without having terrible torque steer...SAAB got bad press about torque steer which is 100% true about the car, so they under rated the engine I guess.

With that said, they won't blow anyones doors off the line. They run upper 14s in the 1/4, stock at a little under 100 mph if driven correctly.

About the SRT-4...stock vs. stock I'd go with the SRT-4.

I'm not trying to praise the Viggen or anything, but they're decent cars.

But ///M > Viggen

High 14's at under 100 mph? Good lord, I didn't know they were THAT SLOW! An E36 328 would give them a good run for their money from a dig!!!

High 14's at under 100 mph? Good lord, I didn't know they were THAT SLOW! An E36 328 would give them a good run for their money from a dig!!!

Did I not JUST say they are slow from a dig?

I realize the OP is a little bit of a Viggen Fanboy, but comeon, give the Viggen some respect.

I'm not making it out to be someting it's not...it's no drag strip king

Did I not JUST say they are slow from a dig?

I realize the OP is a little bit of a Viggen Fanboy, but comeon, give the Viggen some respect.

I'm not making it out to be someting it's not...it's no drag strip king

lol oh god more saab debate lol

lol oh god more saab debate lol

tell me about it...,

If the Viggen wasn't fast and of higher quality than an E36 then there would be no discussion.

I'm still looking at an M3 for a summer car though.

Rogo

If the Viggen wasn't fast and of higher quality than an E36 then there would be no discussion.

I'm still looking at an M3 for a summer car though.

Rogo

I'm sorry man, but while the Viggen is a great car it is not of higher quality than an ///M.

damn, maybe I should look at a viggen:shifty :alright :rolleyes

It is of an E36.


Rogo

I'm sorry man, but while the Viggen is a great car it is not of higher quality than an ///M.

E36? Yes, it is. I realize this is kill stories, pretty much the sewer of Bf.c, where all the idiots with nothing positive to contribute tend to congregate. I only popped in because I saw Viggen on the frontpage. Those that refuse to give other cars any credit only expose how absolutely ignorant they are, just because your only exposure to the car world is Bf.c doesn't mean BMW is the only quality maker out there.

I'm the new owner of a '97 900SE. Previous car was a E36 325, before that an E34 540/6, before that a 944 Turbo, A4, and 911. So I've owned a variety of German cars. The E36 has appaling build quality, especially on the inside. Coming from my 540, I couldn't believe just how big of a step down the 325 was. I've wrenched on all my cars and many others, the E36 interior build quality was flirting with American. While the 900 may not be fancy, it is of very high quality. Materials, fasteners, longevity, it's very good. My new car doesn't have a single interior rattle, I haven't had that for a long time. I sank a lot of money and time into my 325, and it still shakes over bumps.

Will the 325 dust it on a twisty road? Of course, at least for now. The tradeoff is a rough ride, even with a fully rebuilt stock suspension. But the 900 will destroy the 325 in a straight line. Torque steer is annoying, but there's several cheap fixes to nearly eliminate it. Probably best of all, for about $1000, I can have an extra 100 HP. Compared to an NA car, that's insane.

SO, I'm not trying to lay claim to the title of ultimate car, we all know the E36 318 wears that crown. But, pull your head out of your ass, all of you. There's a lot of nice cars out there, each has it's good and bad. Bashing it because you know nothing about it only makes you look like a moron. Read Car & Driver or something, there's a whole other world out there.

I dunno, I still think the e36 M is better than the Viggen

You didn't own a Viggen though Saabguy.

Rogo

I dunno, I still think the e36 M is better than the Viggen


Overall "better?" Quite possibly.

However, this thread seems to have turned towards a build quailty comparison of the cars in question. As far as that goes, I've never driven a Saab, but it takes no great leap of faith on my part to believe insert-your-Saab-here is a higher quality vehicle than an E36 anything.
Half the folks on this forum drive E36s, so you'll never hear this opinion much, but quite a few here still recognize the E36-chassis BMWs as some pretty heinous examples of traditional "BMW quality."

Overall "better?" Quite possibly.

However, this thread seems to have turned towards a build quailty comparison of the cars in question. As far as that goes, I've never driven a Saab, but it takes no great leap of faith on my part to believe insert-your-Saab-here is a higher quality vehicle than an E36 anything.
Half the folks on this forum drive E36s, so you'll never hear this opinion much, but quite a few here still recognize the E36-chassis BMWs as some pretty heinous examples of traditional "BMW quality."

The SAAB 9-3 chasis is held together with bubble gum. It is no good in stock form.

It's not the chassis of an E36, that I know-since I had one on loan for a week or so. I've also driven a 2005 STI, 2005 350z, 88 Porsche 951, and owned a 2005 SRT4, 2006 GTO, 89 SPG, 79 325i (the best handling of them all, lowerd with 7" BBS wheels and BF rubber-wish I hadn't sold it).

The highest quality was the Viggen hands down-and it is as fast as the STI, 350, SRT4, and goat-for how I drive.

It isn't bubblegum if you spend $100 on a rack clamp/brace-the damn thing is rubber stock.

Rogo

Better is objective, and as such is totally irrelevant. BMW can outhandle a Saab, but the Saab is faster, better screwed together, and more comfortable. So which is better? If you choose a topic, it's a bit easier. Specifically build quality, in which case anyone with exposure to BOTH cars can clearly tell that the Saab is superior. It only becomes more obvious when you take them apart. Does that make it a better car? To each his own.

I just think it's idiotic that people without any exposure to Saab choose to bash them online.

I don't think anyone is debating that the E36 interior is horrible. My '92 Ford Taurus's interior was more modern and better put-together.

That being said, I drove a nice looking Viggen before buying my M. It was definitely a nice car, and if I hadn't been so intent on getting away from wrong-wheel-drive I probably would have picked it up.

I am much happier with the handling of the M than I was the viggen, but there are aftermarket fixes for the torque steer, as have been shown above. Still, for my money, I'd buy the E36 every time and deal with the shitty interior. I've owned enough FWD cars to know that it isn't the right platform for the type of driving I do, or the driving feel that I'm looking for.

SAABs do rip from a roll. and if this doenst make sense to anyone because their 0-60 times are in the 6s, so how could they do that acceleration at higher speeds and high gears!!? well drive one. and look at 50-70 times. Its about the same as diablo 50-70. which obvisouly doesnt mean much but, it does prove theyre fast in their element. And yes the GM cars got shitty quality. But the real ones will go thru brick walls, and run forever. the one to get is a 9000 aero. best of both worlds.

944 Turbo is the same way. It's a dog from the stop, but was the fastest car 50-90 that money could buy when new. Most turbo cars are crappy drag cars without seriously abusing the drivetrain.

so you guys only race when you get to start at 50 and shut er down at 70 :dunno thats what it sounds like to me... and quit dogging the E36's interior, its really not that bad....

what yr did viggens start rolling off the assembly line? One of you is making your grandeous remarks comparing it to your 93 325.... gimme a break... The viggen is supposed to be a competitor to the M3, compare it to the M3...

There is no comparison... And stop calling the car fast b/c it is "fast" from 50-70... thats by far the worst arguement ive seen in a while. I'm still waiting to hear if these are top gear pulls, which im pretty certain they would have to be.

R E A D. I'm comparing my '97 900SE to my '93 325i. The Viggen is a 900/9-3 with goodies, just as the M3 is to a 325i. The Saab was a bit cheaper in '97 ($31k) than my 325i was in '93, and yet it's far higher quality.

Since you're so informed, what's your exposure to Saab? Feel free to knock the Viggen video all you want, but my 900 will destroy my 325i, and on the highway I'd say it's as fast as my 540/6 was. That's stock, and it won't be stock for long. A Viggen, even stock, is quite a bit faster than a 900/9-3.

R E A D. I'm comparing my '97 900SE to my '93 325i. The Viggen is a 900/9-3 with goodies, just as the M3 is to a 325i. The Saab was a bit cheaper in '97 ($31k) than my 325i was in '93, and yet it's far higher quality.

Since you're so informed, what's your exposure to Saab? Feel free to knock the Viggen video all you want, but my 900 will destroy my 325i, and on the highway I'd say it's as fast as my 540/6 was. That's stock, and it won't be stock for long. A Viggen, even stock, is quite a bit faster than a 900/9-3.

rather than defend your position, you could answer my questions to shut me up.... whats the deal with this claim of the fastest car in the world from 50-70 mph or whatever... is it a top gear pull? (which proves nothing). I thought it was funny how def started talking about how inefficiently your running that turbo at that high boost too... which is obvious... but nobody wanted to discuss that either.

and your right, i assumed u were comparing a viggen to your 325, althougth I did see you owned a 97... but really i dont care, all i was saying is stop dogging the E36 interior. I like it ALOT more than my buddies Saab (dunno what it is, its a pre-GM saab)

3rd, and last, I started arguning with you guys b/c someone was repping how his car on 29 lbs pulls on stock E46's... its a laughable comment. The arguement was then turned to interior quality, I'm assuming b/c you realized any car pushing 29 lbs of boost better be beating an N/A E46.... I'm more than happy to learn about strong engines I dont know about... If the Saab has a sleeper engine in it that is very responsive to upgrades, plz post links or info letting me know.

nice, i just see alot of guys pooping on each other.

The XX-XX claim (whatever the speeds were) was off of Top Gear. The POINT, which seems to be missed, is that it is a damn quick car at higher speeds.

http://www.genuinesaab.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=56_61&products_id=173
Will show you that with intake, exhaust, and ECU you'll gain almost 100 HP and over 100 ft-lb on a 900SE. Viggen upgrades are more dramatic.

R E A D. I'm comparing my '97 900SE to my '93 325i. The Viggen is a 900/9-3 with goodies, just as the M3 is to a 325i. The Saab was a bit cheaper in '97 ($31k) than my 325i was in '93, and yet it's far higher quality.

Since you're so informed, what's your exposure to Saab? Feel free to knock the Viggen video all you want, but my 900 will destroy my 325i, and on the highway I'd say it's as fast as my 540/6 was. That's stock, and it won't be stock for long. A Viggen, even stock, is quite a bit faster than a 900/9-3.

Your 1997 900 isnt as fast as a 540 on the highway or on a street at lower speeds. Keep dreaming man.


My mom had 2 sabbs a 9-3 and a 9-5. Both were brand new and both were Pieces of Shit. The 9-3 was an electrical nightmare that junker was in the shop a few times a month everymonth. The interior was not better than an E36. Both of those sabbs were before GM took over so I can't even imagine how crappy those cars are now.

Rogozhin no one cares about viggens or sabbs in general here so you should take your mustard mobile somewhere else like to a SABB FOURM or a junk yard.

Rogozhin no one cares about viggens or sabbs in general here so you should take your mustard mobile somewhere else like to a SABB FOURM or a junk yard.

:rofl: :lol

Normally, I don't encourage/join in on the bashing of other members just because of the car they drive (because I have been on the receiving end of it a lot), but that was just plain funny!

It's not the chassis of an E36, that I know-since I had one on loan for a week or so. I've also driven a 2005 STI, 2005 350z, 88 Porsche 951, and owned a 2005 SRT4, 2006 GTO, 89 SPG, 79 325i (the best handling of them all, lowerd with 7" BBS wheels and BF rubber-wish I hadn't sold it).

The highest quality was the Viggen hands down-and it is as fast as the STI, 350, SRT4, and goat-for how I drive.

It isn't bubblegum if you spend $100 on a rack clamp/brace-the damn thing is rubber stock.

Rogo

Uhh, my buddy has owned a Viggen for 4 years and he has the steering rack reinforcements and the thing still torque steers like crazy. It has also had more repairs done to it than any other car built in the 21st century that are owned by people I know. When I was shopping for a new car, he let me drive it for a few hours. We went to Target, and when we got back outside the thing wouldn't start at all. $800 ignition module had just died spontaneously. Good thing he bought the extended warranty. I will say however that because their depreciation is so piss-poor, they make a great deal for someone who can work on them himself and if the trouble areas have already been addressed. Their 3rd gear pulls are pretty badass.

Uhh, my buddy has owned a Viggen for 4 years and he has the steering rack reinforcements and the thing still torque steers like crazy. It has also had more repairs done to it than any other car built in the 21st century that are owned by people I know. When I was shopping for a new car, he let me drive it for a few hours. We went to Target, and when we got back outside the thing wouldn't start at all. $800 ignition module had just died spontaneously. Good thing he bought the extended warranty. I will say however that because their depreciation is so piss-poor, they make a great deal for someone who can work on them himself and if the trouble areas have already been addressed. Their 3rd gear pulls are pretty badass.

3rd gear is pretty fun. The ignition module shouldn't cost $800. It's a Direct Ignition Cassette, which can be had for like $100...and can be instlaled by a 4 year old. (Literally 4 screws holding it in.)

But anyways, this thread should be locked...it's not going anywhere, and it was not a kill, and there is no BMW.

Agreed.

^^^^

Agreed, that's why I asked on the first reply where the kill was. I can't believe there is already 5 pages of replies on this thing. :shifty

Your 1997 900 isnt as fast as a 540 on the highway or on a street at lower speeds. Keep dreaming man.


My mom had 2 sabbs a 9-3 and a 9-5. Both were brand new and both were Pieces of Shit. The 9-3 was an electrical nightmare that junker was in the shop a few times a month everymonth. The interior was not better than an E36. Both of those sabbs were before GM took over so I can't even imagine how crappy those cars are now.

Rogozhin no one cares about viggens or sabbs in general here so you should take your mustard mobile somewhere else like to a SABB FOURM or a junk yard.

Since you've driven both, I'm sure you'd know.:rolleyes To further reinforce the total lack of substance in your post, the 9-3 and 9-5 were the first of the true GM Saabs. I believe GM purchased Saab in the mid-90s, my '97 900 has a few GM items on it and is often referred to as the GM900 within the Saab world. The 9-3/5 was the beginning of the GM platform sharing, and the beginning of the end for reliable Saabs. I would not have purchased a 9-3 or 9-5. Don't post about things you know nothing of.

Agreed on the thread lock, this is pointless. At least on many other car forums, members will acknowledge, or even celebrate, other makes of cars. Maybe this is what happens when you can pick up an E36 for $4k? Car snobbery posing at it's finest.

Since you've driven both, I'm sure you'd know.:rolleyes To further reinforce the total lack of substance in your post, the 9-3 and 9-5 were the first of the true GM Saabs. I believe GM purchased Saab in the mid-90s, my '97 900 has a few GM items on it and is often referred to as the GM900 within the Saab world. The 9-3/5 was the beginning of the GM platform sharing, and the beginning of the end for reliable Saabs. I would not have purchased a 9-3 or 9-5. Don't post about things you know nothing of.

Agreed on the thread lock, this is pointless. At least on many other car forums, members will acknowledge, or even celebrate, other makes of cars. Maybe this is what happens when you can pick up an E36 for $4k? Car snobbery posing at it's finest.

I guess I was wrong about when GM bought sabb sorry. Either way they still suck. Oh and I didnt buy my e36 for $4k either. Unfortunatly I paid 28k for mine a few years ago.

Wow, no one can really correctly recall the xx-xx mph figure for the Saab.

The Saab 9-5 Aero (3400lbs, 250hp) can accelerate from 40mph-70mph faster than a Porsche 996 turbo. This was stated on Top Gear and other tests confirm this. It's not a top gear pull either, but a second gear pull.

It's in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Sy5wiTnVeW4
watch at 7:50

As for GM ownership: GM bought 50% of Saab in 1990 (the NG/GM900 was developed then). They bought the remaining 50% in 1995. The 9000 was untouched by GM though, even though it continued production through 97 or 98 (although the 9000 wasn't 100% Saab either because it was a collaboration between a couple different Euro brands). The 9-5 shares Vauxhall/Opel parts.

Either way they still suck.

Nothing beats a well informed and supported opinion.

Speaking of well-informed and supported, is there actually any evidence beyond that ignoramus Clarkson spouting off of the 9-5's 996 Turbo beating midrange pull? Understandably, I'm a bit sceptical.

Speaking of well-informed and supported, is there actually any evidence beyond that ignoramus Clarkson spouting off of the 9-5's 996 Turbo beating midrange pull? Understandably, I'm a bit sceptical.

yes, measured times of a 9-5 going from 40-70mph vs. times of a 996tt going from 40-70mph.

Understandably, I'm a bit sceptical.

Who cares?
PS: it's skeptical

So this stock car is gonna keep up with me from 40-70 in second gear right?And this car will hang with an 02-04 z06 from 40 to 70?Something isn't right

yes, measured times of a 9-5 going from 40-70mph vs. times of a 996tt going from 40-70mph.

Can the 9-5 even get to 70mph in second gear? According to this (http://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/roadtests/pdf/2002_07_sedans_data.pdf) test, it's 2nd gear 40-60 time is the same as an E46 330i. I'm searching the Saab forums now...


Who cares?
PS: it's skeptical

I do, else I wouldn't be belaboring the point.

PS: thanks

good lord... unsubscribed.

I recently sold a 2002 9-5 Aero. It was an auto, and quite peppy, though I dont recall it being remarkable strong. Very nice interior and great seats though.

I think the 50-70mph time is typically quoted in the car's TOP GEAR(not the show). Short gearing and a torquey turbo can give good acceleration numbers compared to a car with a much longer 6th gear(a la 996TT).

I'm sorry, but if the car only traps in the 100mph range while stock, it is a dog when you start trying to compare it to cars like a 996TT. A 996TT will trap over 115mph on a good day. That's like bus lengths on a 100mph trap car when both are actually racing... end of story.

Nothing beats a well informed and supported opinion.

Nothing beats driving a couple old crappy cars and trying to call out someone on how much they spent on a car.