I am not sure what year or model the BMW was, but I believe I saw a 328i badge, and it wasn't the newest body style.

On 25S outside Denver, blue or black BMW.

He signaled with his flashers and as I pulled next to him he gunned it. I kept it in 5th, assuming that would be enough to keep with him, but he was pulling on me so I shifted to 4th. I'm not knowledgable in BMW cars, and figured it wouldn't be too quick. I was wrong. I passed a car on the right and came back around, slowly gaining and eventually swooping in front of the BMW. By this time I'm in 6th and it was a pretty close little race. I'm not sure if the BMW pulled back at the high speeds, but he was a fair competitor. If I had the jump on him at the start, it would have been a little different though.

Of course this was all on a closed track, and actually just a figment of my imagination. ;)

But, do any Colorado area people know who this guy could have been? Interested to know what he drives, and what the 328i is capable of. THanks for any info.
-Aaron

that was me!!! and its actually an 318 auto with a 328i badge(the m3 badge was on back order), 106.5 rwhp/ 112 rwtq on a mustang dyno, a formidable challenge to any R32:D

you should pull easily on regular 328 E36/46

sorry , my stupid a** roomate was posting under my profile. you guys may know him already as "mthrizl" so ignore his stupid post

yup r32 eats up 328s no prob.. M3 is a better race.

sorry , my stupid a** roomate was posting under my profile. you guys may know him already as "mthrizl" so ignore his stupid post

:lol :lol :lol :lol

What color is your .:R?

What color is your .:R?

Reflex Silver

How much HP stock would the 328i I saw have? I figured if he was challenging me on the highway he would have something more than stock though.

sorry , my stupid a** roomate was posting under my profile. you guys may know him already as "mthrizl" so ignore his stupid post


funny thing is, soundoctor himself had a 318i sedan wit da fakemeout m pkg, he did not however opt for the m3 badge as it would have been more expensive than his electic turbo that allowed for his 106 rwhp runs. he has since moved on to bigger and badder things, a 4 cylinder audi sedan, 1.8L power forever!

r32's are dope, i used to sell them brand new, 3 of the salespeople i worked for owned r32's, one has a red hpa tubo that is sick nasty! i liked them better than my e36 m3's in all aspects other than exterior looks.

189 hp for the 2.8's, not a significant difference in power vs a m3, more like the 328 is a watered down version of the e36 m3-which is a watered down version of the european spec m3.

Reflex Silver

How much HP stock would the 328i I saw have? I figured if he was challenging me on the highway he would have something more than stock though.

stock we have about 160-164whp.

189 hp for the 2.8's, not a significant difference in power vs a m3

51 extra HP on top of those 189 is not significant? For basically the same weight? :rolleyes

189 hp for the 2.8's, not a significant difference in power vs a m3, more like the 328 is a watered down version of the e36 m3-which is a watered down version of the european spec m3.
That is easily the dumbest thing i read all day.

That is easily the dumbest thing i read all day.

X2

Lee

funny thing is, soundoctor himself had a 318i sedan wit da fakemeout m pkg, he did not however opt for the m3 badge as it would have been more expensive than his electic turbo that allowed for his 106 rwhp runs. he has since moved on to bigger and badder things, a 4 cylinder audi sedan, 1.8L power forever!

r32's are dope, i used to sell them brand new, 3 of the salespeople i worked for owned r32's, one has a red hpa tubo that is sick nasty! i liked them better than my e36 m3's in all aspects other than exterior looks.

189 hp for the 2.8's, not a significant difference in power vs a m3, more like the 328 is a watered down version of the e36 m3-which is a watered down version of the european spec m3.

You sir, are a dumbass :alright

You sir, are a dumbass :alright


thats kind of rude, dont you think? seeing that i have owned 2 m3's and half a dozen other 3 series, im pretty familiar with them. there is not a whole lot that seperates the 2.8L from a 3.0 or 3.2L M3 in performance, i was happy with the performance of the 328's, stepping up into an m3 is a nice improvement, but far from a night and day difference........not excactly like going from a e46 330 to m3, where the car behaves totally differently.

watch who call dumbass, dumbass. it would seem to me that someone who thinks that a m3 has so much more to offer than a 328 would be smart enough to sell their 328 and buy one before he made his 328 into a suedo m3. i think they are great cars, and there is certainly nothing wrong with owning a 328 and spending money on it, but if the m3 is soooooooo much better, what kind of f@(#*%^ DUMBASS would try to make a 328 look and perform more like a m3 for more money than the cost to trade up?

fucking gross, dont ever call someone a dumbass, you TWIT!

lets just do some math now shall we.

1997 national m3 coupe wholesale transactions:

01/09/07 FAAO Regular $9,900 147,318 Avg SILVER 6G 5 Yes
12/28/06 SO CAL Lease $6,500 122,122 Below BLACK 6G 5 Yes
12/20/06 CEN FLA Lease $6,800 102,906 Below GREEN 6G 5 Yes
12/05/06 STATESVL Regular $11,400 96,081 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
11/02/06 FRDKBURG Regular $9,100 102,045 Avg GREEN 6G 5 Yes
10/26/06 SO CAL Regular $8,100 121,963 Avg BLACKR 6G M Yes

1997 328is coupe transactions

01/04/07 AWS Regular $5,850 111,558 Avg GREEN 6G A Yes
01/04/07 CHICAGO Regular $5,500 118,946 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
01/09/07 BISHOP B Regular $5,500 103,295 Avg MAROON 6G A Yes
01/16/07 ALBUQUE Regular $6,000 115,481 Avg WHITE 6G Yes
01/16/07 LOS ANGL Regular $4,600 133,215 Avg BLUE 6G S Yes
01/17/07 MINNEAP Regular $4,400 136,798 Avg BLUE 6G A Yes
01/17/07 NADE Regular $6,100 96,195 Avg BLUE 6G Yes
01/18/07 GTR PHNX Regular $700 130,148 Below GREEN 6G No
01/19/07 STATESVL Regular $4,800 128,801 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
01/23/07 ARIZONA Lease $5,150 127,575 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
01/24/07 BAY CITI Regular $7,450 99,669 Above BLACK 6G A Yes
01/25/07 SO CAL Regular $3,300 104,591 Below BLACK 6G 5 Yes
01/30/07 OHIO Regular $5,300 115,346 Avg WHITE 6G M Yes



wow, what a difference!!!!!! i wonder which one is the better buy for the punk kid who likes to spend his paper route money on replica rims and ebay springs in an attempt to recreate his dream car to the tune of $4k?? and i wonder if that same kid who idolizes the m3 so much is intelligent enough to invest his money in the nicer car vs ebaying his 328 to immitate one? oh shit, i forgot, your car was a gift, you spent all your cash on rims, and you dont qualify for an auto loan that would make place a $100 a month difference in the payment between both cars.

so shut the F up kid, and go jerk off to some m3 pics in the gallery setion on this forum.

*edit, thats actually a pretty big spread in values, 5k vs 10k, the m3 is not twice the car. however, if you are the type that like to customize a car than i really think an m3 is a much better buy, but i understand that most of your cars are you r parents hand me downs and you will probably continue owning these cars through college before you can buy something new.

X2

Lee


ok, another 17 year old twit- a self procalaimed expert on bmw's no doubt, since most vw owners actively own and drive m3's..........i will be waiting for your reply saying you own a m3 and a 328, yet you like to display your beat up nazi bucket of a vw jetta for profilin' purposes.

nice 8v by the way, did you get those rims from jc whitney? nothing wrong with faking it till you make at as you can see many members on this forum practice this baller on a budget technique already and are so wound up in the dreams of owning an m3 that they will actually degrade their current car in efforts to stick up for said dream car. fucking kids...

That is easily the dumbest thing i read all day.


okay, you mind on elaborating?? so you are saying that a 3.0 or a 3.2L m3 motor isnt the same block as a 2.8 essentially bored out with different cams? and that the s54 they placed in the 94-99 euro m3's isnt much of an improvement to a us spec motors? get a fucking clue, the m3 is a great car, i loved mine dearly, but THEY ARE A WATERED DOWN VERSION OF THE EURO M3! or equally said- a hoped up 328i. the same cannot be said for the e46's.

51 extra HP on top of those 189 is not significant? For basically the same weight? :rolleyes


its a nice improvement, when i first bought my 95m3 after having alot of experience owning jsut about every other bmw of the mid to early 90's i was really hoping to be blown away with its performance, i was impressed, but i gauratee you the differences are not night and day. it is the better car no doubt and a better buy, but a 328 is a great car and should not be looked down upon anymore than a euro m3 would to a us spec m3-the performance gaps are very similiar in both cases, hence the watered down comment. dont get me wrond, the braking and handling was a great improvement, but some cams and a nice tuned spring/shock combo with allow a 328i to perform to 85% of what a stock m3 will.

this is mthrizl by the way. and yes it is my day off, and yes i am extremely bored. but you shoudl seriously GO OUT AND ACTUALLY DRIVE THESE CARS(to whom it applies to) before you talk out you ass in the blind assumptions that "M" means everything is garbage, grow up.

okay, you mind on elaborating?? so you are saying that a 3.0 or a 3.2L m3 motor isnt the same block as a 2.8 essentially bored out with different cams? and that the s54 they placed in the 94-99 euro m3's isnt much of an improvement to a us spec motors? get a fucking clue, the m3 is a great car, i loved mine dearly, but THEY ARE A WATERED DOWN VERSION OF THE EURO M3! or equally said- a hoped up 328i. the same cannot be said for the e46's.

Calm down man :eyecrazy

okay, you mind on elaborating?? so you are saying that a 3.0 or a 3.2L m3 motor isnt the same block as a 2.8 essentially bored out with different cams? and that the s54 they placed in the 94-99 euro m3's isnt much of an improvement to a us spec motors? get a fucking clue, the m3 is a great car, i loved mine dearly, but THEY ARE A WATERED DOWN VERSION OF THE EURO M3! or equally said- a hoped up 328i. the same cannot be said for the e46's.

No one is saying that the Euro M3 is beefier...If you knew anything about what your talking about you would know why it was.

The M3 is not a hopped up 328...Much more the what you see in the engine my son.

No need to loose your cool.

okay, you mind on elaborating?? so you are saying that a 3.0 or a 3.2L m3 motor isnt the same block as a 2.8 essentially bored out with different cams? and that the s54 they placed in the 94-99 euro m3's isnt much of an improvement to a us spec motors? get a fucking clue, the m3 is a great car, i loved mine dearly, but THEY ARE A WATERED DOWN VERSION OF THE EURO M3! or equally said- a hoped up 328i. the same cannot be said for the e46's.

hmm i didn't realize they put the s54 in the euro e36 M3s...i also didn't realize the cams go in the block of the engine :rolleyes

yes the US spec e36 M3 is a watered down version of the euro counterpart, but to say that there is barely any difference between the e36 328 and the e36 M3 is just not right. there is a pretty decent amount of performance gain when going from a 328 to an M3. a difference that is hard to make up without installing most bolt-ons and upgraded suspension on the 328...that should say something about the cars.

yo sounddoctor, i hate to interrupt your rant, but i dont particularly think a couple guys not having the same knowledge as you on BMWs merits you generalizing any member who has contours or double spoke rims on a non-M as punk kids who want to ebay their shit cars to try and make them their "dream cars"
Personally I have ds1s and some other parts off an M3 and i dont think that makes me a "baller on a budget." Thats very elitist of you, because whats wrong with having good taste in wheels? or bumpers? or side moldings? or vader seats? or steering wheels?
As i said i do agree that some people in this section are misinformed on alot of things but i dont think that allows you to generalize anyone who wants their car to look nicer as a "twit"
my $.02

this is mthrizl by the way. and yes it is my day off, and yes i am extremely bored. but you shoudl seriously GO OUT AND ACTUALLY DRIVE THESE CARS(to whom it applies to) before you talk out you ass in the blind assumptions that "M" means everything is garbage, grow up.

Stock for stock, the E36 M3 betters the E36 328 in EVERY performance category. Every single measurable one. Who cares if you were impressed or not, it's irrelevant to this discussion - fact is, M3 > 328 every single time. :stickoutt

I'd keep the insults at home if I were you - not only do they make you look like an angry teenager, but they will never win you an argument on any level higher than the gutter. :nono

The M3 had firmer shocks and springs, larger anti-roll bars, beefed up driveshaft, Better breakings, variable-ratio steering, a LSD!, bigger wheels, vader seats, aero kit, ect ect... So far every person whose upgraded from a 328 into an M3 says its a worlds difference...You sound like you didnt track eithar of your cars very much? Your acting as if BMW bored out the engine and that was it.

Wheres your argument again? Oh the Euro M3 is better then the US M3. And? I mean your basically saying every model of a 1,3, 5, 6, 7, 8 and other BMWS are all the same things. Ones just a little more watered down then the other.

Besides who are you to say we have never driven the two?

The M3 had firmer shocks and springs, larger anti-roll bars. Better breakings, variable-ratio steering....

Besides who are you to say we have never driven the two?


really? i hadnt noticed. yes! everybody knows that there is more differnces than a bored out 2.8 block some hotter cams, stiffer shocks, higher rate springs, different strut hats, sway bars/links, rear trailing arms, front control arm bushings, beafier gear box, blah, blah, blah, this is all common knowlege. variable steering is 95 m3 only,

a 328i a good car, an m3 is a better car, but they are not worlds appart like some of you think when you say "thats the stupidest thing i ever read" or "you sir are an idiot" in reguards to saying a us m3 is a watered down version of the european m3 and the 328i is a watered down version of the m3. so thats the point im making.

yo sounddoctor, i hate to interrupt your rant, but i dont particularly think a couple guys not having the same knowledge as you on BMWs merits you generalizing any member who has contours or double spoke rims on a non-M as punk kids who want to ebay their shit cars to try and make them their "dream cars"
Personally I have ds1s and some other parts off an M3 and i dont think that makes me a "baller on a budget." Thats very elitist of you, because whats wrong with having good taste in wheels? or bumpers? or side moldings? or vader seats? or steering wheels?
As i said i do agree that some people in this section are misinformed on alot of things but i dont think that allows you to generalize anyone who wants their car to look nicer as a "twit"
my $.02


not at all, nothing elitist in my statements, my comments pretained to someone saying that an m3 was so superior to their 328i....yet they spend thousands to immitate them, or to become more equal in looks or performance...its just seems a little contradictory-to call someone a dumbass for saying that a 328i isnt far from an m3 in performance, when they own a 328 and are blinded by thier admiration for an m3 to the point that anything that is said negatively about their dream car the take it as a personal attack on their 328i.

this is not soundoctor by the way, it is m thrizl. i posted under my roomates account by accident

really? i hadnt noticed. yes! everybody knows that there is more differnces than a bored out 2.8 block some hotter cams, stiffer shocks, higher rate springs, different strut hats, sway bars/links, rear trailing arms, front control arm bushings, beafier gear box, blah, blah, blah, this is all common knowlege. variable steering is 95 m3 only,

a 328i a good car, an m3 is a better car, but they are not worlds appart like some of you think when you say "thats the stupidest thing i ever read" or "you sir are an idiot" in reguards to saying a us m3 is a watered down version of the european m3 and the 328i is a watered down version of the m3. so thats the point im making.

95...I got it ;)

Watered down is a little ehh. It just makes you sound like the guys who claim to but stock for stock M3s in their 328s all day long.

Sounddoctor, go and buy you a 328 and I will meet you at any track you want, we will see what kind of difference there is!!!:nutz:

95...I got it ;)

Watered down is a little ehh. It just makes you sound like the guys who claim to but stock for stock M3s in their 328s all day long.

somebody can tweak out a 328 and go out and race against m3's and be extremely competetive... one cannot do that in a e46 variant, no 8k rpms redline, no variable diff...totally different beast.

i will say it again, there is nothing wrong with owning a 328i and hopping it up. although you will never get dollar for dollar the total package an m3 will get you, you will still have a comparable car, AND YOU SHOULD NOT picture an M3 as the far superior car. i wont go so far as some, as to say that the M3 doesnt deserve its "m" bagde for not having a hand built motor with ITB's, but it the US cars certainly got the shaft in the power train department. that said, i STILL still loved both my m3's and will probably own another........but not before i drive a e34 m5 though........which also shares, for the exception of its motor, 90% the same parts as a 535i...but you buy this car mainly for its motor, i cant say the same for an e36 m3...think about that......coincidently their price differences are the same to that of a 97 328/m3, about 5k-6k and 10-12k respectfully.

Sounddoctor, go and buy you a 328 and I will meet you at any track you want, we will see what kind of difference there is!!!:nutz:


i was on soundoctors account.... really, the track? so when you are at your local bmw car club track events, how many e36 328/325's do you see at the track driving competitively? i will know if you have ever been to any driving events by your answer....i will wait. i will let soundoctor know that you enjoy kicking men in the balls to show your doMinance.

i was on soundoctors account.... really, the track? so when you are at your local bmw car club track events, how many e36 328/325's do you see at the track driving competitively? i will know if you have ever been to any driving events by your answer....i will wait. i will let soundoctor know that you enjoy kicking men in the balls to show your doMinance.

A few, but always out numbered by ///M's at least where I live. I am stating that the M out shines the 328 in every aspect. If it was so close do you think BMW would have developed the M3? Oh and I am compairing stock for stock, anyone can make something fast with mods!!!

Want to know my opinion sOuNd dOcToR? GET A FRIKKEN LIFE OUTSIDE YOUR 1 BEDROOM APARTMENT and STOP being a jerk to other members or guess what? HERES THE BIGGY!!! :ban:

dont beaf on sounddoctor...its not him...its m thrizl...

an m3 is nice car...a 328 is a less nicer car? SETTLED

CHA CHING

Want to know my opinion sOuNd dOcToR? GET A FRIKKEN LIFE OUTSIDE YOUR 1 BEDROOM APARTMENT and STOP being a jerk to other members or guess what? HERES THE BIGGY!!! :ban:


nobody is being jerk, just stating the facts for those who dont know any better.

and how old is thBmWBOy? 17 and a half? that gives you a lot of credibility in determining whos statements, reguardless of their rudeness, have relevancy? i accept your comment nonetheless, i do need a frikken life, my day shouldnt be spent responding to to kids who have never owned more than one car in their life and that live and die by the M badge.

dont beaf on sounddoctor...its not him...its m thrizl...

an m3 is nice car...a 328 is a less nicer car? SETTLED

CHA CHING

I guess you drive a really less nice car!!!:la J/K

Sound Doc is getting a bad rap due to his buddy!!

dang so much love between 328's and M3's...I love my 328...but dat doesnt mean I would not own an M3...I'd prolly keep both...IOM once u start moddin an 328 can come pretty close to a STOCK M3...but mod the M3 then is no contest...they are the same but different...come on we all no dat...they are a BMW but different :p

A few, but always out numbered by ///M's at least where I live. I am stating that the M out shines the 328 in every aspect. If it was so close do you think BMW would have developed the M3? Oh and I am compairing stock for stock, anyone can make something fast with mods!!!


not to many enthusiasts-like the 500k that visit this site-leave their cars stock.



so what happens when you take a e36 m3, scale(not water) down the motor a little bit, soften up the supsension for a more commutable ride, take away the ground effects for a more conservative look, reduce the diameter of the brakes/roll bars, retain a lsd, install a very similiar gear box(i dont remember telling a difference) remove the sport "vader" seats for some standard leather seats, soften(not water) down the compound in the ca bushing, install a little nipple in the struts to allow the sway links to attach for stability, alter the suspension geometry, castor, camber, toe, with a $100 strut hat?

nothing happens, you just get a 328i wich is merely a watered down m3, plain and simple, you cannot argue this fact no matter how much stubborn love you have for an e36 m3. the biggest defference that is difficult to replicate is the M's giant rear trailing arms, everything else is pretty similiar. what are the quarter mile differneces anyways? 14 sec vs 15? as an indicator in the engines performance advantages. and what does it take to bring a 328i's handling prowess to that of an m3? not much, 1500 in springs shocks, strut hats.....hmm, alot of these parts are cross compatible, the only thing you will not be able to easily assimilate is like i said, the rear trailing arms.......but i already forgot what makes them different. does it make sense to buy a 328 and turn it into an m3 like performer? not for the money, but it can be easily done, many people do it, and they do it for one primary reason-THAT THESE CARS ARE VERY SIMILIAR, AND THE FACT THE MOTORS TOO ARE ALIKE ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE SIMILIAR PERFORMANCE. had the S54 engine made it to the us, you wouldnt see as many e36 owners trying to keep up with m3 owners.....becuase the performance gap would be to great.........just like it is with the e46's, much more technology that sets the e46 M apart from the other trims than the e36 does.

what cars offer more comparible performance when compared to their upper trim level cousins? think of this as a test of your perception, not you actual knowledge of cars, since some of you poeple dont have a clue and merely rely on your materialistic intiution.


v6 mustang, or v8 mustang?
v6 camero, or v8 camaro?
540I, or m5? 550i or v10 m5, 535i or m5-e34
c280, or c36?, 400e, or 500e? 190e 2.6 or 190e 2.3-16?, the mb list goes on and on.
911 c4s, or 911 TT? tough one aswell, since a c4s is a turbo without the turbo, but still offers more night and day difference
e500, or e55/e63?
325es/is, or e30 m3?
330i, or m3-e46?
s54 m roadster, or 3.0L z3?
cts, or cts-v?
xk8/xj8, or xkr/xjr?
a4 2.8, or s4-b5?
a4 3.0, or s4-b6, the audi list goes on aswell.
....the list could go on. BTW, i have driven all of the above cars with the exception of the e63 which is a 07 model and the cadi's, and the e34 m5 which is on my next to own list.

OR

328i, or m3-e36?


if you truly know and understand, and have actually driven these cars you would most likely comment on how similiar the e36 cousins are vs the rest of the list above which represent cars that have night and day difference in the way they perform. this doesnt slam an e36 m3 anymore than it commends a 328, SO DONT GET YOUR PANTIES ALL IN A BUNCH, and try not to be soo bmw biased, its a little immature....acceptable though, im a go hard bimmer fan, but i have driven, owned, and sold a shitload of cars and have a little broader knowlege/oppinion of cars than a majority of the members here, so i take a little personal when a younger and less knowlegeable member says something stupid like "you sir are a dumbass"

It is not that I have stubborn love for the E36. If you look at my sig I own all forms of M 3's. And to make it clear the E30 is the best of them all!! I would sell my other cars before her!! I too mod all of my cars and understand that you need to compair apples to apples. Either both moded or both stock. The 328 is a nice car but rather on the soft side for me. It is almost like saying that a Carrera is the same as a TT Pcar. They are just both different in many ways. I have too owned and driven a 328. I just totally disagree with you that it is a close match to the M3. You are intitled to your opinion that is what this forum is for. :love not to many enthusiasts-like the 500k that visit this site-leave their cars stock.



so what happens when you take a e36 m3, scale(not water) down the motor a little bit, soften up the supsension for a more commutable ride, take away the ground effects for a more conservative look, reduce the diameter of the brakes/roll bars, retain a lsd, install a very similiar gear box(i dont remember telling a difference) remove the sport "vader" seats for some standard leather seats, soften(not water) down the compound in the ca bushing, install a little nipple in the struts to allow the sway links to attach for stability, alter the suspension geometry, castor, camber, toe, with a $100 strut hat?

nothing happens, you just get a 328i wich is merely a watered down m3, plain and simple, you cannot argue this fact no matter how much stubborn love you have for an e36 m3. the biggest defference that is difficult to replicate is the M's giant rear trailing arms, everything else is pretty similiar. what are the quarter mile differneces anyways? 14 sec vs 15? as an indicator in the engines performance advantages. and what does it take to bring a 328i's handling prowess to that of an m3? not much, 1500 in springs shocks, strut hats.....hmm, alot of these parts are cross compatible, the only thing you will not be able to easily assimilate is like i said, the rear trailing arms.......but i already forgot what makes them different. does it make sense to buy a 328 and turn it into an m3 like performer? not for the money, but it can be easily done, many people do it, and they do it for one primary reason-THAT THESE CARS ARE VERY SIMILIAR, AND THE FACT THE MOTORS TOO ARE ALIKE ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE SIMILIAR PERFORMANCE. had the S54 engine made it to the us, you wouldnt see as many e36 owners trying to keep up with m3 owners.....becuase the performance gap would be to great.........just like it is with the e46's, much more technology that sets the e46 M apart from the other trims than the e36 does.

The E36 328 is 50 hp down on the E36 M3. Part of it is the 0.4L displacement difference, part of it is the exhaust, and part of it is the cams. There are a few dynos of the 2.8 with M3 cams and exhaust floating around these forums. With a few mods, the gap is bridged considerably. Of course, the M3 can be modified as well -- there are a few wiith about 260 rwhp with all the possible bolt on mods. Stock for stock, though, there is no comparison.

Philip Bradley

Shhhhh!!! :rolleyes Don't tell thrizl that!!!

Actually I'm 19, and I do understand his logic....but this is a forum we are supposed to be sharing knowledge along and be friends. We are not supposed to be rude and blunt about things it just ruins the community. Yes M3's are performance machines and someone would rather mod an M3 rather than a 328 but both have their pro's and con's. Yet M3's insurance is very high for younger people who most likely would be modding these cars unless it was someone's hobby so therefore a 328 would be the best bet for insurance and also for modding. It all depends on the income, interest, and expectations of each person.

The E36 328 is 50 hp down on the E36 M3. Part of it is the 0.4L displacement difference, part of it is the exhaust, and part of it is the cams. There are a few dynos of the 2.8 with M3 cams and exhaust floating around these forums. With a few mods, the gap is bridged considerably. Of course, the M3 can be modified as well -- there are a few wiith about 260 rwhp with all the possible bolt on mods. Stock for stock, though, there is no comparison.

Philip Bradley


this is very true, and a couple grand will yeild 190 rwhp(almost to 3.0l m3 specs) on a 328, and the same money will yeild 220 rwhp on an m3. their potential for horsepower is identical, only displacement allowing the m3 for XX% more potential.

poeople make due with the s50/52 motors in the e36 m3, and they are good performers, BUT the lack of a real m motor, i.e ITB's, solid lifters, higher comp pistons, more extensive headwork, ect, doesnt make the E36 as special as some may think. and that make it no more than a bored out 328 block. the s50b30/32/s54, s38 motors all have race inspired engineering, thats is what makes them stand appart from their lower trim level siblings...........YOU CANNOT SAY THE SAME FOR A US SPEC M3, what dont you guys understand about this? the m3 is a great car, and i wouldnt change much on it, but if you think the m3 was a race version of the standard e36, you are correct, but not if you are US market buyer.

let me ask you a question.. what is the primary component of a sports sedan? is it the motor?

would you go out and praise a C class merceds AMG model if all it had for a motor was a strocked out 3.2 v6 with 50 more hp?

could rousch or saleen sell their version of a mustang if all the did was bore the factory motors out and bolt on some brakes and suspension? or do they actually rebuild the motor from scratch and typically only retain the stock block, NOTHING ELSE?

would you praise an s4, if all it was was a bored out 3.0 to 3.5, or would you want something more exotic? like a v8 or twin turbos?

amg hand builds their motors, THAT is what sets them appart from the standard MB models among other things.

you dont get that with the US spec m3 motor. what you get is a beefed up 328 motor, end of story. this is the point you guys are too blind to see when i refer to a 328i as a watered down m3.......its a pretty accurate description and i didnt mean to hurt your fragile egos. again, the m3 is a pretty impressive sports car, but dont pretend like it is the gods gift to the 3 series bmw........the euro e36 m3 is!





SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, like i originally tried to relay to the original poster. just becuase its an m3 vs an 328, dont expect the performance difference to be that of other makes and models(like the ones i listed) this is a pretty common misconception. i think most people think the e36 m3 put out alot more than 240hp just because of the brand recognition the M models recieve.


190 hp and 240 hp is not a huge disference at all, know a days its the differnce between the run of the mill base model v6 equiped car vs the next step up-run of the mill base model v6 car............dont expect 240hp to blow you away much more than 190 hp will...........fi you currently own a e36 and have wishes to own a m3 and this fact hurts your feelings, than i am sorry, but that shouldnt keep you from buying one. dude, i have ragged the shit out of some 328i's when i had them as demos, and when you drive them 10/10ths they can suprise a novice m3 driver........moreso in a straight line. i wouldnt say the same about anyother car in comparison to their "sport" model................YA FEEL ME? i doubt you do, but i've driven the dog shit out of so many cars that i can truely say i know what i am talking about. do you?

really? i hadnt noticed. yes! everybody knows that there is more differnces than a bored out 2.8 block some hotter cams, stiffer shocks, higher rate springs, different strut hats, sway bars/links, rear trailing arms, front control arm bushings, beafier gear box, blah, blah, blah, this is all common knowlege. variable steering is 95 m3 only,

a 328i a good car, an m3 is a better car, but they are not worlds appart like some of you think when you say "thats the stupidest thing i ever read" or "you sir are an idiot" in reguards to saying a us m3 is a watered down version of the european m3 and the 328i is a watered down version of the m3. so thats the point im making.


I didn't know beefier was spelled with an "a" and regards with a "u"...LOL, J/K...
No need to insult other members or become irate on an internet forum...Can't we all just get along:help

...

I didn't know beefier was spelled with an "a" and regards with a "u"...LOL, J/K...
No need to insult other members or become irate on an internet forum...Can't we all just get along:help

...


i admit, i never once won a spelling bee. beaf yeah, its a word!:D to my defense-I'm not the one the started the insults....unless ofacoarse my original statement stating the 328 and a m3 as being closer-than-most-think was considered a insult....its evident some took it personal, a stab at their bimmer pride perhaps?-which may not be backed by as much knowledge of the products as it is unconditonal love; one might consider that thought process as being naive, bmw biased elitism, general lack of knoledge without points of reference, or just plain internet diarhea(please correct me on the diarhea spelling)

Jesus man-send your posts through a spell checker-and this statement "190 hp and 240 hp is not a huge disference " is so compeletly subjective that it's actually inane. What are the torque differences?

Rogo

Jesus man-send your posts through a spell checker-and this statement "190 hp and 240 hp is not a huge disference " is so compeletly subjective that it's actually inane. What are the torque differences?

Rogo

so maybe i am too lazy for spell check, btu teh hmuan mnid is mroe tahn intlliengt enuohg to raed thrguoh mispleld wrdos, ulnses you all hvae readnig comrpohsesin prlbomes? yet pelpoe sitll feel the need to cmomnet on causaul inertet fourm potnsigs? seems too a litlte pttey too me.

190hp and 240hp is noticeable in a 2600 pound honda, less noticeable in a 3100 bmw.

i will pause here, since most if not all of you fail to understand, or moreso misunderstand my statements. soooo, we will go back to the beginning before all you guys blew your self richeous go hard M loving loads. so a R32 VW driver posts on here wondering about 328 specs in reference to weather ot not a 328 would be of any match on a performance level to his R32, i doing so he recieves comments on how his r32 would most definately roll out on any 328, and that an m3 would be a closer match---------True statements! i mention, well, i forgot verbatim what or how i said originally, but i basically let this uninformed VW owner than yes a 328 is not much of a challenge and an m3 is........but he should know that the difference in performance ina 328 and a m3 isnt as much as most would think, as i stated before most people have higher expectations of a BMW with a "M" badge than what the E36 actually has beneath its hood----------a bored out 328i motor with hotter cams.









back to Rogoz comment, where is your point of reference? is it maybe how you say "subjective"? as in comparison to cars not related to my initial statements? or are you considering your homo erotic experiences with saab ownership? -hey, ive bought and sold more than a few saabs, they are pretty interesting and well constructed cars, but you gotta be a school proffesor or a homo to actually like one well enough to buy one.........so stricltly based on suedo internet first impressions, i would have to not take your advice on anything car related-again just a perception, not always reality, so please dont take offense, and enjoy your quirky car. atleast provide some facts or personal experiences behind your comments, otherwise they kinda lose any relevance, dont ya think?

actually Rogoz, i will take back my comment on your Saab, its not all that bad looking, wasnt aware of a 9-3 coupe of that generation, viggen coupe, whatever the F it is. slight improvement on the typical Saab, but still as quirky looking inside and out as its inherent engineering ques.

lemme try another angle.

if you race an R32 in your 328I and feel a little down for not being able to compete, DO NOT THINK THAT A STEP UP TO AN M3 IS THE MAGICAL SOLUTION FOR YOUR HP HUNGER, ALTHOUGH YOU WILL CERTAINLY BE BLESSED WITH A MUCH BETTER PACKAGE OF LOOKS AND HANDLING AND HOTSHIT VADER SEATS, DONT EXPECT THE INCREASE IN STRAIGHT LINE PERFORMANCE TO BLOW YOU AWAY, IT WILL NOT.

i know this, becuase i am very fickle with cars, and out of all the cars i've driven or owned, there are always cars that dissapoint me with their performance differences between trim levels when driving the base model(See the list of cars above) but there isnt a model of car that i have had more experience in driving than an e36, and i have yet to step into a single e36(in stick, and no 318's) that i drove and felt "cheated" in my driving experiences. go drive a e46 325i and then a m3, and you will never want to drive a 325 again. do the same in a e36 and it doesnt make you think "this 2.5/2.8 is a real dog" you will be delighfully suprised and may even think, hey this is kind of like my m3, only watered down.....and then your ego sets in and you realize that without vader seats, 17's, aggressive looks and more sports orriented suspension, and you say "fuck this car, i want my M back, but i could drive this car and be happy with it" tell me if any owners of the cars i listed a few posts above would say the same. then tell me if by understanding that comparison, you can understand my original comments on the performance similiarities between the E36's.

but i dont expect many of you to actually have the experiences to actually correctly comment to my statements, so i might as well stop arguing with you, since you prefer to argue speculation over actual experiences.......or even worse, you read something like "328 performance isnt far from an m3" and your adolecent unknowlegdable bmw pride tells you "this cant be true" it goes against common "i think i know everything about cars" and "my 18 year old car genius common sense tells me that cant possibly be remotely correct"<-----and i am sure that most of the general public thinks the same way, so dont be embarrased, just learn!

own a few e36's and start driving them back and forth, then go drive some of the cars i listed a few posts earlier. then tell me what your experiences are. then ask yourself if you could go drive that v6 mustang camero, e46 325, a4 3.0, ect, ect, vs the sport models. you cant, its not possible, the perforance differences spoil you from ever wanting to drive the base models again. then tell me if you would act the same towards the e36 cars(minus the autos and 318's). you wouldnt, in my experience in driving the E36's i have never once driven a nice e36 and felt cheated by its driving experiences....i would certainly miss the looks/drive/performance of the M, but i would be turned off by the non M models. and then ask yourself if mthrizl made any sense when he informed a non BMW owner of the performance differences,in relation to runs on the highway, of a 328 and a m3 not being something that one would consider a "huge difference", my choice of words may have been blunt......and know i am paying for it in my long winded ,run on sentance, non spell checking using, trying to clear up confusion while educating 18 year old M dreamer posts.

"thats the 1) stupidest thing i ever read" or "2) you sir are an idiot".

1) Dictionary.com
2) You, sir, are an idiot.

You're really smart yourself.

Ahhh geez... this thread's gotten out of hand. M3 > 328 allll day!

I'm not trying to be mean but these 328i vs m3 threads or posts are getting out of hand. Honestly want my opinion yes we all know m3 will beat a 328i stock vs stock but doesn't take much work for a 328i to beat a e36 m3, you guys are making it sound like its like 20 car difference which it isnt. i've seen shark injected, m50 intake manifold conversion, tb, cai, electric fan stomp on stock e36 m3 all day so dont make it sound like its a huge gap.

Also stop going by what the freaking book says on HP on any car. To me no car dynos or puts out the same HP as what the book or internet says. I gotta say i've been noticing most 328i's underrated, how dont ask me but its what i've been noticing from my stand point. But my bmw is my pretty fast car, not crazy fast but decent enough because once my 240sx is done & Rb25det is in then that'll be my beast, no more comment. let the m3 vs 328i fighting continue.

lemme try another angle.

if you race an R32 in your 328I and feel a little down for not being able to compete, DO NOT THINK THAT A STEP UP TO AN M3 IS THE MAGICAL SOLUTION FOR YOUR HP HUNGER, ALTHOUGH YOU WILL CERTAINLY BE BLESSED WITH A MUCH BETTER PACKAGE OF LOOKS AND HANDLING AND HOTSHIT VADER SEATS, DONT EXPECT THE INCREASE IN STRAIGHT LINE PERFORMANCE TO BLOW YOU AWAY, IT WILL NOT.

i know this, becuase i am very fickle with cars, and out of all the cars i've driven or owned, there are always cars that dissapoint me with their performance differences between trim levels when driving the base model(See the list of cars above) but there isnt a model of car that i have had more experience in driving than an e36, and i have yet to step into a single e36(in stick, and no 318's) that i drove and felt "cheated" in my driving experiences. go drive a e46 325i and then a m3, and you will never want to drive a 325 again. do the same in a e36 and it doesnt make you think "this 2.5/2.8 is a real dog" you will be delighfully suprised and may even think, hey this is kind of like my m3, only watered down.....and then your ego sets in and you realize that without vader seats, 17's, aggressive looks and more sports orriented suspension, and you say "fuck this car, i want my M back, but i could drive this car and be happy with it" tell me if any owners of the cars i listed a few posts above would say the same. then tell me if by understanding that comparison, you can understand my original comments on the performance similiarities between the E36's.

but i dont expect many of you to actually have the experiences to actually correctly comment to my statements, so i might as well stop arguing with you, since you prefer to argue speculation over actual experiences.......or even worse, you read something like "328 performance isnt far from an m3" and your adolecent unknowlegdable bmw pride tells you "this cant be true" it goes against common "i think i know everything about cars" and "my 18 year old car genius common sense tells me that cant possibly be remotely correct"<-----and i am sure that most of the general public thinks the same way, so dont be embarrased, just learn!

own a few e36's and start driving them back and forth, then go drive some of the cars i listed a few posts earlier. then tell me what your experiences are. then ask yourself if you could go drive that v6 mustang camero, e46 325, a4 3.0, ect, ect, vs the sport models. you cant, its not possible, the perforance differences spoil you from ever wanting to drive the base models again. then tell me if you would act the same towards the e36 cars(minus the autos and 318's). you wouldnt, in my experience in driving the E36's i have never once driven a nice e36 and felt cheated by its driving experiences....i would certainly miss the looks/drive/performance of the M, but i would be turned off by the non M models. and then ask yourself if mthrizl made any sense when he informed a non BMW owner of the performance differences,in relation to runs on the highway, of a 328 and a m3 not being something that one would consider a "huge difference", my choice of words may have been blunt......and know i am paying for it in my long winded ,run on sentance, non spell checking using, trying to clear up confusion while educating 18 year old M dreamer posts.

so let me ask you one thing...were you blown away by the 24hp difference between the e30 325 and the e30 M3? how about the
6ft lbs of torque difference? how incredibly easy is it to get e30 M3 power out of an e30 325? or is an M car not just about the power?

I'm not trying to be mean but these 328i vs m3 threads or posts are getting out of hand. Honestly want my opinion yes we all know m3 will beat a 328i stock vs stock but doesn't take much work for a 328i to beat a e36 m3, you guys are making it sound like its like 20 car difference which it isnt. i've seen shark injected, m50 intake manifold conversion, tb, cai, electric fan stomp on stock e36 m3 all day so dont make it sound like its a huge gap.

stomp on them eh? were the M3s auto? a 328 with those mods isn't going to put ~210rwhp and let alone get even close to 200rwtq. they both weigh in very similarly so i'm gonna have to say that the race you 'saw' was due to driver error on the M3s part. for a 328 to hang with or beat an M3 it's going to need most bolt-ons, or gearing.

lemme try another angle.

if you race an R32 in your 328I and feel a little down for not being able to compete, DO NOT THINK THAT A STEP UP TO AN M3 IS THE MAGICAL SOLUTION FOR YOUR HP HUNGER, ALTHOUGH YOU WILL CERTAINLY BE BLESSED WITH A MUCH BETTER PACKAGE OF LOOKS AND HANDLING AND HOTSHIT VADER SEATS, DONT EXPECT THE INCREASE IN STRAIGHT LINE PERFORMANCE TO BLOW YOU AWAY, IT WILL NOT.

i know this, becuase i am very fickle with cars, and out of all the cars i've driven or owned, there are always cars that dissapoint me with their performance differences between trim levels when driving the base model(See the list of cars above) but there isnt a model of car that i have had more experience in driving than an e36, and i have yet to step into a single e36(in stick, and no 318's) that i drove and felt "cheated" in my driving experiences. go drive a e46 325i and then a m3, and you will never want to drive a 325 again. do the same in a e36 and it doesnt make you think "this 2.5/2.8 is a real dog" you will be delighfully suprised and may even think, hey this is kind of like my m3, only watered down.....and then your ego sets in and you realize that without vader seats, 17's, aggressive looks and more sports orriented suspension, and you say "fuck this car, i want my M back, but i could drive this car and be happy with it" tell me if any owners of the cars i listed a few posts above would say the same. then tell me if by understanding that comparison, you can understand my original comments on the performance similiarities between the E36's.

but i dont expect many of you to actually have the experiences to actually correctly comment to my statements, so i might as well stop arguing with you, since you prefer to argue speculation over actual experiences.......or even worse, you read something like "328 performance isnt far from an m3" and your adolecent unknowlegdable bmw pride tells you "this cant be true" it goes against common "i think i know everything about cars" and "my 18 year old car genius common sense tells me that cant possibly be remotely correct"<-----and i am sure that most of the general public thinks the same way, so dont be embarrased, just learn!

own a few e36's and start driving them back and forth, then go drive some of the cars i listed a few posts earlier. then tell me what your experiences are. then ask yourself if you could go drive that v6 mustang camero, e46 325, a4 3.0, ect, ect, vs the sport models. you cant, its not possible, the perforance differences spoil you from ever wanting to drive the base models again. then tell me if you would act the same towards the e36 cars(minus the autos and 318's). you wouldnt, in my experience in driving the E36's i have never once driven a nice e36 and felt cheated by its driving experiences....i would certainly miss the looks/drive/performance of the M, but i would be turned off by the non M models. and then ask yourself if mthrizl made any sense when he informed a non BMW owner of the performance differences,in relation to runs on the highway, of a 328 and a m3 not being something that one would consider a "huge difference", my choice of words may have been blunt......and know i am paying for it in my long winded ,run on sentance, non spell checking using, trying to clear up confusion while educating 18 year old M dreamer posts.

m thrizl, I commend you sir. However, speaking volumes of knowledge (as you have stated, and already know) on this or any other gathering ground of brand lovers is all for not. Tirelessly, they shrug through criticism with steadfast ignorance- much like a deaf black guy at a rally, who just likes to cheer. You really should be used to the whole knit-picking, and ad-hominum attacks here, you've been here long enough. *Why rebut someones thesis, when I could just point out that he missplelled a word? Zing, I'm a genius.* We've all read that 20 page gathering of teary eyed 5 year olds who didnt want to beleive that their dad was not an astronaut, but merely snakes toilets at NASA. Yes thats right the old 'us m3 is not a real m3' thread. And beleive it or not, it is what it is. So before the snarling dogs turn their hate upon me, I'm just going to stretch my post as long as I can. If you hadnt noticed, that's why I'm not really using proper paragraphs (and punctuation) so the kids here- who look at a post of more than 2 sentences and just scroll on by, will be on their way catching none of this. It's like broccoli to them. Anyway, just to make my post longer than it is (in keeping with my plan), I'd just like to state that I'm just a little hung over and skipped class this morning. And the weather here in california is awesome, and I need to do laundry. I'm very hungy, fck I have work later.

The poignant poet gets neither the fame or fortune, but what he really wants. For while the blade of truth is cutting, the double side comes back for more. Keep at it m thrizl and just know that some of us are listening,

chris :buttrock

No - fuck yeah, im lovin the weather here in cali!

fuck, smart people can spell, dumb people cant. shit, i just increminated myslef and allowed all my typed words to lose all credibility.....i give up.

Agreed. Thread locked.