I am headed to a well established roll cage/race car builder to see about having a harness bar fabricated for my car. We are going to consider this with a minimum of modifications to the car. I have removed the plastic trim pieces behind the seats as I am also going to install a few chase cam bullet cams in this area. I doubt the harness bar can be installed without some dremel trim work to a few of these pieces so I am going to price them from bmw parts in case I ever want to put it back to stock. I've seen their work (they make all roll cages for Lotus Exige Cup 240) so I expect this job will be quite simple for them. Is anyone interested in this product for their car? I will post back with some pics and possibly some prices as soon as I know.

Here's how it looks now:

I would be interested depending on price and how much cutting I have to do to my car

I am very interested in this as well, especially the reversible part.

Doug N.

I'd also be interested, if they come up with a package that can be shipped across the country.

I just got home from Hyper-Sport. I am going to leave my car with them for a few days next week. After looking at the situation it looks like we are going to have a sweet setup that will be 100% reversible without any cutting of the factory plastics etc. The person who is fabricating the harness bar is going to make a template so others can be made. Their work is top notch and Ill post back with pics and a review.

I am ALL in for this.

I WILL take one.

Thanks for being the Guinea Pig.

Thanks for being the Guinea Pig.

There is nothing worse than being tossed around at the track. Of course, the harness bar is ultimately for safetly in a crash but after a long day at the track I've found my body is much less fatigued when I am not holding on to the wheel for support. Now my biggest issue is whether or not to change the seats. I love the m seats but I know they are heavy and a set of nice sparcos with the harness cutouts would be sweet. A little off topic but does anyone know of any fitment issues? I talked to a guy @ a local auto-x with a Z3 m Coupe that said a lot of seats wouldn't fit his car. Is the Z4 wider inside?

http://www.sparcousa.com/pseats_comp.asp?id=469
or
http://www.sparcousa.com/pseats_street.asp?id=193

I am bringing the car to have the harness bar fabricated tomorrow. It should be done by the middle of next week. This is happening sooner than I thought so if anyone who hasn't already posted their interest in this product could let me know I would greatly appreciate it. Obviously cost, ease of install, etc are still pending but I'd like to get a ballpark of how many to have produced. I am going to look at the Z4 Roadster up close to see if the exact same harness bar will work on either car.

I am in if it can be shipped and of course reasonably priced.

I should be picking the car up tomorrow. I'm told the seats are extremely heavy and they are going on the scale before being reinstalled. All is going well and I should be putting up some pics (and hopefully a price tag) tomorrow night.

I am bringing the car to have the harness bar fabricated tomorrow. It should be done by the middle of next week. This is happening sooner than I thought so if anyone who hasn't already posted their interest in this product could let me know I would greatly appreciate it. Obviously cost, ease of install, etc are still pending but I'd like to get a ballpark of how many to have produced. I am going to look at the Z4 Roadster up close to see if the exact same harness bar will work on either car.

I'd be very interested in a harness bar,pretty much count me in! Thanks!

I just got back a little while ago with my car. The harness bar came out perfect!!! I still have to put the black plastic trim back together in the rear of the car but I took a few pics for now. There was no drilling needed as it uses all factory mounting locations. The B Pillar trim pieces must be removed in order for the bar to nutsert into the pre existing holes. The center piece of plastic trim may need a notch dremeled out but I doubt it as the harness bar center support fits precisely against the plastic trim (see pic looking back). I need to get a few things done and Ill take some better pics asap. I am not certain of a price yet but I will try to put together something soon.

Wow nice work! I'm actually impressed how good it turned out.

I wonder how much stiffer this makes the chassis?......

I wonder how much stiffer this makes the chassis?......

I couldn't feel any difference but it sure can't hurt.

A few more angles...

It does look very well put together, bigger question is how much?

It does look very well put together, bigger question is how much?

I am working on a price now. There are a few things I need to consider so it may take a little time. I want to be certain this 1 off bar is perfect before I give the go ahead to make more so I obviously don't want to take that step forward without testing mine. The more interest in the bar the cheaper they will be so if anyone is seriously interested but hasn't commented or emailed me please do so. Right now I am figuring on producing 10-15. 7 People have shown interest but I figure it would be smart to double that number to be safe. I am also considering offering it in body matching color for an additional cost. I was going to offer it with a camera mount drilled and tapped but since I found this item I thought I'd hold off since this one can be moved and adjusted. http://www.sector111.com/handler.cfm?cat_id=20219&cat_id=20444&prod_id=1236&function=product

I'm working on a few things right now so please be patient. I don't want to make any mistakes that will come back to haunt me or you.

I'd be interested in buying one-I'm just south of Charlotte, N.C.

It looks like the price is going to be between $310 and $360 due to the low volume of production. I'm not looking to get rich on these things but I'd like to at least recover travel and time expenses. I've posted on Z4coupeaddicts in hope I can get a few more people on board. Does this price seem reasonable?

Honestly, that price is very reasonable. IIRC, the Sparco harness bar for the e36 costs around $400....on a good day.....so your price is pretty darn good if you ask me...

Price sounds reasonable to me-I'm still in for one. Thanks

I'm still in as well. Does that range include paint; powdercoat I assume? If so, has any decision been made to whether or not it will be available in other colors? Thanks again for doing all the testwork!

Honestly, that price is very reasonable. IIRC, the Sparco harness bar for the e36 costs around $400....on a good day.....so your price is pretty darn good if you ask me...

Agreed!!

If you are including everithing (hardware,paint or powder coat,good fitment,etc..) that is a good deal ,please include me in for one..
when the time comes,if you accept paypal,you'll get your payment immediately!

Ray

I have a track day on March 3rd @ Road Atlanta. I am going to test the harness bar at this event and then we are going to start producing them as long as I am 100% happy with the design. At this point I don't see why I wouldn't but I'd rather put some seat time on it at the track before we go ahead and make more. I will have a final price and start taking payments in the coming weeks. As far as paint goes I think I am going to keep things simple and leave them black. I checked with my local body shop friend and his shedule is such that it could put a bad delay on those wanting body color paint. All parts will be included as well as installation instructions. This will be a very easy install and should take less than 30 minutes to install the bar itself. Paypal will be accepted. I'll be back in contact with each of you shortly. Thanks!!!

Unfortunately this is not looking good right now. I have to get liability insurance and it throws a wrench in the gears as I wasn't planning on creating a long term company to sell harness bars. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Why do you have to get liability insurance?

If I sell a harness bar to someone and they were to have an accident they could sue me over it if the bar didn't hold up well. The bar appears to be designed and built very well but if someone were to have a bad wreck and they wanted to go after someone I could be the fall guy. I have too much to lose over very little money so I have to be cautious. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Unfortunately this is not looking good right now. I have to get liability insurance and it throws a wrench in the gears as I wasn't planning on creating a long term company to sell harness bars. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I went through a similar experience when I had a harness bar made for E46 M3s, which also used all factory mounting locations. I was ready for production and was in the process of starting an LLC for the intent purpose of selling the harness bar. Unfortunately, after a few discussions with an attorney, it was still impossible for me to separate myself from the company and thus would be included in any lawsuit. This was still true, despite the fact that the bar would include a liability waiver.

I finally gave up on the idea, even though I had all the jigs ready. I also spent a fair amount of my own cash to produce the bar. The ironic thing is that I had a major shunt at the Glen while I was using the harness bar. It worked flawlessly and I walked away from the accident without harm. The car on the other hand did not fare so well and was totalled. (<7mo E46 M3). The bar worked perfectly and did not even show signs of stress from the accident.

My recommendation is that see how much liability insurance would cost you. I never looked that route, but would have if it was reasonable. I'm in the process of trying to design a roll bar for E46s that wouldn't require any drilling and would still use factory mounts. If I decide to make it into production, I may go this route, along with the waiver and plenty of warnings and print indicating risk of use.

Good luck, you've designed a great product. I wish you the best.

Thanks for the advice Harold! I am not giving up yet.

Let me ask what others are probably wondering. Why is a liability wavier not be good enough?

Why is a liability wavier not be good enough?

Because ANY half way decent lawyer will be able to poke all kinds of holes in it. All a liability waiver can do is discourage litigation, not PREVENT it.

What you'll need is LIABILITY INSURANCE, not waiver...Because someone will sue. It's just the nature of the society we live in.

StateFarm insures my current business for liability so I have them looking into it. I am beginning to wonder if it's worth it but I suppose I'll check into insurance and see. It's no wonder things are as expensive as they are sometimes.

Because someone will sue. It's just the nature of the society we live in.

I REALLY wish that statement wasn't true. I believe that part of our society is wrong but that is a whole other topic.

Silly question (i'm no lawyer), why not just sell them as something completely different. I dunno, a bit of artwork for all I care.

Oh, and it just happens to bolt up as a harness bar in a Z4 Coupe.. :)

Unfortunately I tore my ACL last week while snowboarding so I was unable to use the harness bar at the track yesterday. I am still waiting while my insurance company does a little research.

As far as selling it as a piece of art I don't think that would hold up in court if someone wrecks their car. I think the saying goes like this, "ignorance is the worst defense." I really wish this complication wasn't putting a damper on this project.

How about instead of being the purveyor of these, you simply create a guide on what one needs to do to get it accomplished? It seems like all you'd be doing is taking the orders in to your builder, so just bypass this and let the readers do it themselves.

I don't think you can get successfully sued for creating a guide.. at the end of the guide, you can include a list of roll-cage builders who have been contacted and are interested in furthering their business.

What if you sell the various parts, then the purchaser can have it welded and powder coated. This may remove you from the liability.

It looks like if this is going to happen it is going to be delayed now. I tore my ACL (knee) snowboarding a few weeks ago and I go in for surgery in 2 days. Recovery is going to take some time so if this is going to happen it won't be for at least a month or two. I know some of you want to get this harness bar soon as the track day season is waking up but I haven't had a chance to track test or lock in on liability insurance and now I can barely drive an automatic without a lot of pain. Of course, this had to happen 3 days before the track day!

Man,feel your pain ,get better fast !!!!

I am still in for the bar,willing to wait..

I'm sorry for the delay everyone. Between surgery, recovery, and the fact that I can't get an insurance company to take this seriously I am going to have to bail on the project. I trust the product but my attorney says I have too much to lose if the product should fail it's intended purpose. Anyone is more than welcome to use the photos I've taken to have one made but that's as much as I can do. I've removed the passenger seat (weighs over 70lbs!) and started to mount the eye bolts so the job should be done in the next week.

Are you going to strap someone to the floor? ;)

Yes, your mom.
:buttrock

at www.bimmershop.ca (http://www.bimmershop.ca) are harness available for good price.

Well, I've finished the job. It took a total of about 5 hours with just me working on it. If anyone is interested in doing this to their M Coupe I'd be glad to take some close up pictures and give a parts list. I used eye bolts so the waist harnesses are easily removable or tucked under the seat. I've also kept the stock seatbelts in tact so it can easily be used for daily driving. I am debating on changing out the seats but that will have to wait until afer the up and coming track day as the car is pretty much ready and I don't want to start a last minute project now. I have moved the traq-mate to the rear of the car so I should have some accurate data with the RA-1's in a couple of weeks.

I first want to say, awesome job, looks great.

Now I want to say that running just a harness bar without a hoop of some kind is dangerous. If you roll over the harness will keep you upright and will not allow you to submarine into the seat and prevent your head from being crushed, especially with a helmet on.

I am looking for a half cage with harness bar.

But again, great job.

Id' obviously like to avoid becoming fertilizer so is there another option to avoid submarining?

Take a good look at the Schroth 4 point harness. It has a small bundle of extra shoulder strap folded up inside of the special plastic case for the inside shoulder on each harness (they have designated driver and passenger side sets). In the event of an impact this allows your inside shoulder to be able to duck away from the outside roof support in a similar fashion to the OEM 3 point harness.

The following link shows a Rally 4 ASM harness which is ideal for this application.

http://www.schrothracing.com/products/streetlegal/1575

Thanks. Ill check it out. Does anyone object to using the stock seatbelt in conjuction with my current Sabelt setup? (on track of course)

Why don't you tell the people that want one the name of the shop so it can be made for them? I have my own LLC, maybe I can be of some help.

Well, I've finished the job. It took a total of about 5 hours with just me working on it. If anyone is interested in doing this to their M Coupe I'd be glad to take some close up pictures and give a parts list. I used eye bolts so the waist harnesses are easily removable or tucked under the seat. I've also kept the stock seatbelts in tact so it can easily be used for daily driving. I am debating on changing out the seats but that will have to wait until afer the up and coming track day as the car is pretty much ready and I don't want to start a last minute project now. I have moved the traq-mate to the rear of the car so I should have some accurate data with the RA-1's in a couple of weeks.


If you do decide to replace your seats, I'd be interested in buying your M seats. = )

Thanks. Ill check it out. Does anyone object to using the stock seatbelt in conjuction with my current Sabelt setup? (on track of course)

I know I'm late to this party, but this is not a good combination. Do not use both restraint systems at the same time. I'm no expert, but the Schroth safety expert in the area has explained this to our club.
The OEM seatbelts are engineered to work on their own with the seat. The allow a degree of moment and they have the ability to stretch (to deselerate) in a way that will safe your life. They become ineffective when you use the harness.
Also, just informational, the 4 point system you have is NOT safer than the 3 point harness. I'm not saying is bad, just saying that don't believe that you're safer, because it's not true.

Bottom line, do not double use restraint systems, you're not double safe, actually the opposite could be true.

PS. I want one of those harness bars!

This is really too bad it didn't work out. I'm going to look into having a shop fabricate this harness bar - well done, it looks awesome! I also plan on changing the seats to Recaro SPG's.

Unfortunately this is not looking good right now. I have to get liability insurance and it throws a wrench in the gears as I wasn't planning on creating a long term company to sell harness bars. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Post up details of the bar and attachement etc. and get a feel for folks that may be interested. Then you could (in theory) come up with some sort of a "as-is" statement that gets you off liability ...

Depending upon how your design is and the price etc., I would not mind picking one up with your disclaimer statement in there. Not sure what others think?

The idea to make more has been thrown out. The person/company that fabricated mine is too busy racing to work on them. Thanks anyway.
Dan