Ok Im getting ready to start saving up for mods for the m3, and I can't decide which way to go:

1. Forced Induction - price 10k. This method has its merits, best hp per dollar ratio of anything and has the biggest gains. However, reliability does scare me.

2. Build my own CSL - lightweight seats, wheels, battery, shave close to 300 pounds off the car. Also add some hp with bolt ons and stay true bmw's NA formula. Also get the shorter final drive from Dinan. Still will not be as fast as option 1.

3. Go all show, 19's, lots of shnitzer and audio video stuff.

Anybody got a recomendation?

Your question's a no brainer for me. :)

1. Just too damn dangerous. S54 are fragile as they are. Force them to push 400+ HP, and I don't see that engine lasting more than 10K miles, if it lasts that long. Kiss your warranty goodbye.
Also kiss 15 to 20G's goodbye to replace your engine. :nono

2. My choice. Minor mods shouldn't void your warranty that has now been extended to 100K. Loose 2 to 300 lbs and the M will improve it's handling, as well as acceleration. Dinan's aftermarket rims apparently go long ways to help alleviate the M’s characteristic oversteer. Shorter gears, and Dinan's S2 kit for the M will really be magnified with the weight reduction also. :buttrock

3. Show car? Ummmm no. Making the car go, or show IMO are two different things. Presume you want your M for go, not for show. Show's for ricers......IMHO of course. :nono

Originally posted by tlaselva
Your question's a no brainer for me. :)

1. Just too damn dangerous. S54 are fragile as they are. Force them to push 400+ HP, and I don't see that engine lasting more than 10K miles, if it lasts that long. Kiss your warranty goodbye.
Also kiss 15 to 20G's goodbye to replace your engine. :nono

2. My choice. Minor mods shouldn't void your warranty that has now been extended to 100K. Loose 2 to 300 lbs and the M will improve it's handling, as well as acceleration. Dinan's aftermarket rims apparently go long ways to help alleviate the M’s characteristic oversteer. Shorter gears, and Dinan's S2 kit for the M will really be magnified with the weight reduction also. :buttrock

3. Show car? Ummmm no. Making the car go, or show IMO are two different things. Presume you want your M for go, not for show. Show's for ricers......IMHO of course. :nono

I put the show aspect in there as I almost have given up on trying to modify the s54. So much money for such small gains, plus having to worry about reliability. Damn you bmw, why not make it bulletproof like it should be.

I'm following the #2 route... but I won't be going as extreme. I'm going to make it faster... without sacrificing the car's luxuries or amenities. It'll be fast, and it will be comfortable. It won't be the fastest thing out there, but it'll make me happy, and that's the important part.

All 3? :evil2

Originally posted by sticky2
I put the show aspect in there as I almost have given up on trying to modify the s54. So much money for such small gains, plus having to worry about reliability. Damn you bmw, why not make it bulletproof like it should be.

I feel your pain, bro.

Go out and flip the M3 for a Z06 now, or wait a few years till BMW comes to their senses and drops a sturdy V8 in the M3....:az:
Ah, decisions, decisions......

I would go number 2. (Ha ha, that's funny:D)

But seriously, wait on number one until others have proven it will work. For number three, if you are gonna do that why didn't you just buy a 330?:dunno

Give me a couple of weeks and mine will give a Z-06 a run and wonder "What's he got done?"

Z06's = :orangesle

;)

Originally posted by sticky2
Ok Im getting ready to start saving up for mods for the m3, and I can't decide which way to go:

1. Forced Induction - price 10k. This method has its merits, best hp per dollar ratio of anything and has the biggest gains. However, reliability does scare me.

2. Build my own CSL - lightweight seats, wheels, battery, shave close to 300 pounds off the car. Also add some hp with bolt ons and stay true bmw's NA formula. Also get the shorter final drive from Dinan. Still will not be as fast as option 1.

3. Go all show, 19's, lots of shnitzer and audio video stuff.

Anybody got a recomendation?

#1 is stupidity.

#2 How? Theres not much you can remove to lighten it. The only thing I can see as marginally significant weight loss is swapping the seats. Everything else would not be worth the effort or cost.

#3 Video has no place in cars in my opinion, nothing wrong with beefing up the audio system as this will actually have some benefit while driving. Aftermarket 19s are not worth the money nor the added weight. ACS body pieces really don't do anything for me, the car is already styled well enough for me.

I'd suggest #4 Which is the path I am taking as soon as I find a job to get money to pay for it.

#4 Mod yourself, improve your driving skills and get to the point where you can tell exactly what your car is capable of. In the process you will be able to identitfy possible areas on the car where you could improve (e.g. suspension tire/wheel changes, brake upgrades, camber adjustment, strut additions etc)

Heres some places for info on driving schools.
http://www.thedriversedge.net/
http://www.bmwusa.com/site_layout/joy_of_driving/performance_center/mschool.htm

Brian

Originally posted by SilverStreak
Z06's = :orangesle

;)


Z06's = :orangesle, ah, no. :nono

Z06= mid 12's stock.
Z06= 1G grip lateral.
Z06= V8 sound and torque.
Z06= Bulletproof V8.
Z06= Easy modability when u want more in power.

No, Z06 = :evil2

I hope I'm not starting another M3 vs. Z06 debate......:blackeye:

I think Dave meant to him Z06s ain't nothing special cause he eats them alive in his little roadster on the regular.

Brian

Originally posted by dallasbboy
I think Dave meant to him Z06s ain't nothing special cause he eats them alive in his little roadster on the regular.

Brian

That he does. Nice to see a BMW that can hand a stock Z06 it's a$$. No easy feat. :cool:

Originally posted by MDriver315
I would go number 2. (Ha ha, that's funny:D)

But seriously, wait on number one until others have proven it will work. For number three, if you are gonna do that why didn't you just buy a 330?:dunno

I had a 330, wanted more power :D

Maybe he meant that the Z06 is a sleeper?:devillook


It has been said that the best mod you can do to your car is to go to a driving school. This way, you can learn where the 10/10ths of the car actually is. This is much better than just haphazzardly adding power to inflate your ego (not saying that this is the only reason we go for more power).

Once you have completed the driving school, then you can remove the 300lbs and see the difference.

Originally posted by sticky2
I had a 330, wanted more power :D

Then leave the A/V stuff where it belongs, in your living room.

Originally posted by dallasbboy
#1 is stupidity.

#2 How? Theres not much you can remove to lighten it. The only thing I can see as marginally significant weight loss is swapping the seats. Everything else would not be worth the effort or cost.

#3 Video has no place in cars in my opinion, nothing wrong with beefing up the audio system as this will actually have some benefit while driving. Aftermarket 19s are not worth the money nor the added weight. ACS body pieces really don't do anything for me, the car is already styled well enough for me.

I'd suggest #4 Which is the path I am taking as soon as I find a job to get money to pay for it.

#4 Mod yourself, improve your driving skills and get to the point where you can tell exactly what your car is capable of. In the process you will be able to identitfy possible areas on the car where you could improve (e.g. suspension tire/wheel changes, brake upgrades, camber adjustment, strut additions etc)

Heres some places for info on driving schools.
http://www.thedriversedge.net/
http://www.bmwusa.com/site_layout/joy_of_driving/performance_center/mschool.htm

Brian

God I truly hate when people say improve your driving. Go take a driving school, that shit. Look, I want more power, acceleration, pure and simple. The suspension is already more then good enough for me. Im not trying to sound like a dick, but I just hate when people say the best mod is driving school, because I dont track the car so I dont give a damn.

As far as lightening the car, you would be suprised. The seats are the first place to start. The battery weighs 50 pounds, a lightweight battery sheds 40. Lightweight wheels (ssr competitions) shed 12 pounds per corner. Euro rotors also save another 2 pounds bringing the total to almost 15 pounds at each corner! So we would have a total of 250 pounds or so right there, not bad.

Originally posted by M3 2 NV
Give me a couple of weeks and mine will give a Z-06 a run and wonder "What's he got done?"

Your m3 is going to be able to hand a z06 its ass? Please share what you are planning on doing.

Not bad indeed. However, if the suspension is more than you'll ever need, why do you need more power? If you aren't tracking it, I would think that 333hp would be more than enough for daily driving.

Originally posted by MDriver315
Not bad indeed. However, if the suspension is more than you'll ever need, why do you need more power? If you aren't tracking it, I would think that 333hp would be more than enough for daily driving.

A civic is more then enough for daily driving. I bought an m3 for the best of both worlds, extremely fast sports car that can seat 4 and be used everyday. I believe everyone with an m3 has a craving for more power. It is not slow of course, but a lil more to put it on par with a c32 amg, which it should, wouldn't hurt.

Originally posted by MDriver315
Then leave the A/V stuff where it belongs, in your living room.

Some people like having a nice audio video system in their car. Whats wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with it, but I personally don't see a need for it in the car.

Originally posted by sticky2
God I truly hate when people say improve your driving. Go take a driving school, that shit. Look, I want more power, acceleration, pure and simple. The suspension is already more then good enough for me. Im not trying to sound like a dick, but I just hate when people say the best mod is driving school, because I dont track the car so I dont give a damn.

As far as lightening the car, you would be suprised. The seats are the first place to start. The battery weighs 50 pounds, a lightweight battery sheds 40. Lightweight wheels (ssr competitions) shed 12 pounds per corner. Euro rotors also save another 2 pounds bringing the total to almost 15 pounds at each corner! So we would have a total of 250 pounds or so right there, not bad.

You asked for an opinion .... ;) Seriously if you are driving the car fast enough to be needing MORE power it might be nice to have some practice at speeds. You never know when a deer or debri will call for a high speed maneuver while you are flying down the road.


Don't forget to lose the M mobility system, ditch about 40-50lbs of the exaust system (maybe pick up a hp or two also), toss in a light flywheel... I should be able to hit ~3100lbs in comp trim when I think my skills are there to justify the efforts.

Originally posted by sticky2
Your m3 is going to be able to hand a z06 its ass? Please share what you are planning on doing.

4.10 gears. That just might be enough, if not it will be one hell of a run.:clap:

Originally posted by M3 2 NV
4.10 gears. That just might be enough, if not it will be one hell of a run.:clap:

I wouldn't expect gears to make any diffrence once you are out of 1st gear. Even there odds are you will be traction rather than power limited.

The only real reason to change the gears in the car is to reduce shifting at the track. 99% of the time they do NOT make the car any faster.

Originally posted by sticky2
Some people like having a nice audio video system in their car. Whats wrong with that?

Explain to me how the fuck can you view any sort of video screen while driving your car?

Brian

Originally posted by dallasbboy
Explain to me how the f*ck can you view any sort of video screen while driving your car?

Brian

That's the same reason that I don't like them. You can't look at one.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Enigma
I wouldn't expect gears to make any diffrence once you are out of 1st gear. Even there odds are you will be traction rather than power limited.

The only real reason to change the gears in the car is to reduce shifting at the track. 99% of the time they do NOT make the car any faster.


Gears will make a difference all the way to cutout. The ratio is 4.10 and that would mean quicker. If you went with a shorter gear you would shift sooner and get a faster 1/4 mile (doing the quarter would not require an extra shift. With the 4.10 gear you would be closer to the end of fourth and at around 7k rpm, right now you have just shifted into fourth and at around 6k rpm.

Domestics have been doing this for years. I have known people with mustangs and they put 4.11s in and they would be quick up to top speed but on the highway they would rev like animals and have crappy low top end. With our cars and it's 8k redline it makes it so much more senseable to change these gears to someting more to our advantage. Right now our cars are geared for 200mph and does not have the power to get there. If you put in a 4.10 you would be geared for 180mph. If you put in a 3.91 you would be geared for 190mph. Either way the car would be faster.

If anybody else can add more please do because it's hard to explain.:confused:

Originally posted by M3 2 NV
Gears will make a difference all the way to cutout. The ratio is 4.10 and that would mean quicker. If you went with a shorter gear you would shift sooner and get a faster 1/4 mile (doing the quarter would not require an extra shift. With the 4.10 gear you would be closer to the end of fourth and at around 7k rpm, right now you have just shifted into fourth and at around 6k rpm.

Domestics have been doing this for years. I have known people with mustangs and they put 4.11s in and they would be quick up to top speed but on the highway they would rev like animals and have crappy low top end. With our cars and it's 8k redline it makes it so much more senseable to change these gears to someting more to our advantage. Right now our cars are geared for 200mph and does not have the power to get there. If you put in a 4.10 you would be geared for 180mph. If you put in a 3.91 you would be geared for 190mph. Either way the car would be faster.

If anybody else can add more please do because it's hard to explain.:confused:

Gears will make you quicker in 1st gear IF you can put the extra rear wheel torque down. However, after you are moving the earlier shifting eliminates and advantage of the lower gearing withing in a gear because you just shift earlier.

Again at the 1/4 you may see a gain IF you can get a good launch. However from a rolling start you do not gain anyting. From a rolling starts its all about power provided you shift into the correct gear. Final driver gears do not add power, they simply help to launch the car.

Tell you what. I have $100 that says you will not gain the 0.5s you need with a set of final drive gears. Want to take me up on it? :evil2

If you have extra torque in first, you also have it in every other gear as well.


Question: You have stock 3.62 gears and I have 4.10 gears and are side by side doing 50, if we both mash the peddal who will be pulling ahead?

Answer: Me, and I hope that other people have input regarding this as well. If I am wrong I have just learned something new and I thank you for that.:)

Is the .5 second the difference between me and a Z-06? Whatever the case I'm not sure what kind of gain (in seconds) I would get, but I know there would be a gain. I guess you took my statement from my earlier post

Originally posted by M3 2 NV

Give me a couple of weeks and mine will give a Z-06 a run and wonder "What's he got done?"

I never said I would take him, but I would give him a run for his money!

Also I don't have $100.:bawl

I would not go for either....
I plan on doing a hybrid between options 2 and 3...
Obvsiously, i want my M to look classy and sweet.. But performance is of utmost importance..
I didnt spend 50k+ for a slow cow that can get spanked by ricer boys....

Its a fine balance between the 2...
A classy, performance oriented vehicle :)

Originally posted by M3 2 NV
If you have extra torque in first, you also have it in every other gear as well.


Question: You have stock 3.62 gears and I have 4.10 gears and are side by side doing 50, if we both mash the peddal who will be pulling ahead?

Answer: Me, and I hope that other people have input regarding this as well. If I am wrong I have just learned something new and I thank you for that.:)

That depends on which gear each of you are in you are in.

The big advantage the 4.10 gears have is from a stop out of first they give you more torque earlier. After that your revs will be higher and the speed will be less in each gear than the 3.62 gears. The idea is you are always reving up more relative to stock hence putting more torque down and exploiting the fact that your engine can rev that high.

I'm not sure which car would pull from a 50 mph roll my guess would be the 3.62 if both were in the same gear at the same speed.

Brian

Question: You have stock 3.62 gears and I have 4.10 gears and are side by side doing 50, if we both mash the peddal who will be pulling ahead?

I think the 4.10 geared car would pull...
I am no car expert but i do know that HP is a function of Torque and RPM.... HP -> F(T,RPM)
Thus, if the 4.10 gears enable you to rev quicker, you will produce more HP...
Although this limits your top end, i see no fun in going over 170 mph....

I think we can compare the above situation with 2 stock M3s from a 80 mph roll..
Who would pull? The car in 3rd gear at approximately 7k, or the one in 4th at approximately 5k ??

From experience in a race vs MVR3332, the one in 3rd would instantly get the jump and maintain it..

Originally posted by M3 2 NV
If you have extra torque in first, you also have it in every other gear as well.


Correct


Question: You have stock 3.62 gears and I have 4.10 gears and are side by side doing 50, if we both mash the peddal who will be pulling ahead?

Answer: Me, and I hope that other people have input regarding this as well. If I am wrong I have just learned something new and I thank you for that.:)

No problem.

If you are in 4th, 5th, 6th gear and you just mash the gas at 50 you will accelerate harder with the new gears.

However, if you put the car in the right gear things are diffrent.
Both cars can run 2nd at 50. The diffrence is that the shorter geared car will need to shift to third at 54mpg where the reqular car will do it at 62mph. So what happenes is the the shorter geared car pulls for a bried second then loses ground as it shifts earlier. In the end they end up about the same

From an 80 mph roll the situation is similar. 80-90 the shorter car pulls then shifts early while the normal car maintins good acceleration until a little over 100.

If you start in the 54-60 or 90-100 range the situation is reversed and the shorter geared car loses at first and then gains it back when the normal car shifts into the same numerical gear.


BTW: The 0.5 second is from stock that you would need to catch a Z06. Stock M3 ~13.2, Z-06 ~12.7.

A few things. My Z06 comment was cuz I've had 9 races with them, 01's and 02's and I've never lost... yet. :D

Gears, it helps in the 1/4 mile. But I would not expect that you gain anymore than 2-3 tenths with lower gears, and that would be with a great launch. So word to wise, Enigma knows his stuff and he's baiting you- don't take that bet on 5/10ths, cuz you won't gain anymore than 2-3 tenths at most. And that's only if you can effectively launch, not fry the tires, etc...

Running from a roll, same car, one with 3.62 gears and one with 4.10 gears- totally depends on what gear you are both in, what rpm you are both at in relation to torque peak, etc. Even with 4.10's, if you're past torque peak and the guy with the 3.62's isn't, you'll blow your load so quick hit redline much faster, have to shift, and meanwhile Mr. 3.62 is walking away from you, cuz he was at torque peak and has more room/time before he needs to shift, etc...

Running from a roll is always totally dependent on gearing...

PS- The Z06's I've seen run, bone stock, are running more like 12.2-12.4 at Atco... just slap slicks on them, 11's...

When did a C32 become competition for an E46 M3? I'm always amazed at the guys you want more and more power, but never mention safety, ie. BIG BRAKES:eek: !!

Since some guys think it's all in the looks, why not stick some BIG REDS on your ///M and have "show and go."

For those of you who don't believe in driving schools and club events to develop your skills, please don't buy ///M cars. Stick with cars that will impress others . . . :complain

Originally posted by SilverStreak
PS- The Z06's I've seen run, bone stock, are running more like 12.2-12.4 at Atco... just slap slicks on them, 11's...

Stop it. :evil2

Who... me? :devillook

Originally posted by dallasbboy
Explain to me how the fuck can you view any sort of video screen while driving your car?

Brian

The way you are supposed to, when you are parked.

Sticky-

If you do go the f/i route. I would go with an E36 M3....it's proven reliable. I mean, how many people can claim they have 380-390 rwhp on a M3??? EVEN IF you supercharge the E46 M3 to around 450 hp at the crank. I STILL think I would be faster than the supercharged E46. Only b/c of the added weight and bigger 19 inch tires I think might hurt it a bit....

I like the BBK -- it's a nice addition as well, pricey; but nice. Although, I still think euro floaters grab pretty damn good for half the price.

Sticky, why not consider Phil's car...handling, performance, it's definitely got the go, ...AND it has the show as well....and he's spared no expense on that car.... I would definitely choose that before going to a Z06.

More than 2000 miles later after RMS Stage II SC on my S54 M Roadster, the engine was tested by Curry's and proved to be in excellent shape. I am supposed to pick up my car today and finally get the dyno and A/F ratio measurements. It will be interesting to see. Reliability is a big question without a doubt. But it's always nice to know that I am packing enough heat to leave Z06 behind not to mention all other unsuspecting foes with their "look at the tiny M, it should be an easy kill" smile.

But I agree with James. If I do this whole mod thing all over again, I would get a S52 M Coupe and AA it.

How much did that RMS stage II cost you Sean?

Brian

There has been many changes on different stage designations.
The latest I heard is following:

Stage I = SC with intake strengthener, running about 6 psi
Stage II = SC with RMS custom intake, Aftercooler, and additional injectors, running from 9-12 psi depending on the setup.

I have an intake with 2 injectors and some others have 6 additional injectors. According to Osh, 6 injectors should prove better throttle response but not much in performance.

As for pricing, I was told by another SCed S54 owner that Stage I is around 10k and Stage II is around 18k. But I would check with RMS to make sure. Also, stage designation may have changed? Osh keeps on improving the kit and it's hard to keep up. ;)

Originally posted by NoSoup4U
Sticky-

If you do go the f/i route. I would go with an E36 M3....it's proven reliable. I mean, how many people can claim they have 380-390 rwhp on a M3??? EVEN IF you supercharge the E46 M3 to around 450 hp at the crank. I STILL think I would be faster than the supercharged E46. Only b/c of the added weight and bigger 19 inch tires I think might hurt it a bit....

I like the BBK -- it's a nice addition as well, pricey; but nice. Although, I still think euro floaters grab pretty damn good for half the price.

Sticky, why not consider Phil's car...handling, performance, it's definitely got the go, ...AND it has the show as well....and he's spared no expense on that car.... I would definitely choose that before going to a Z06.

You know, you are correct. I considered many cars before the m3, and I think I am going about this the wrong way. If I wanted power I should have gotten a supra plain and simple. What I am going to do in this case, is just do minor mods to the m3 to increase my overall driving experience. This is my daily driver, so I will just work on making it more fun. I think in the long run, I am just going to save up for a 996 turbo as a weekend car, and have fun modifying that for power.

sticky, if you love your M3, keep it, and just make it faster, mods will come out, it's a new engine (01) give the tuners time, etc...

Ok Im getting ready to start saving up for mods for the m3, and I can't decide which

I have been going through the same for quite a while. This is what I suggest.

I had my car for 21 Mmmazing month, its just time for more power. I've been runing Hartge 19" classics and eibach pro kit springs for this time. After adding an OEM strut bar, I felt the difference in front end body flex, shes just much more responsive. Next I'm changing my Hartge classics (which weigh 26 for the 19x8 and 31 for the 9.5) to the M3 CSL rim, which looks like the BBS RG-R, but no lip and different center. Well the important thing is I'll save atleast 5lb from the front and 9lb from the rear, thats a total of 18 lb of unsprung weight. Next the eibach swaybars are to be fitted. After several track sessions, the PSS9 coil overs will be installed. I believe its important to experience incremental devleopment, this helps in your future grasp of different areas of you car especially on the track. Understanding the change in your cars limit based on each new add on is the most rewarding experience. After that the front brakes must go in place for a big brake kit, I chose AP-Racing 13.5" 6 piston w/ S.S. brake lines. You can go with the common Brembo ro stop-tech F-40 size 14" 4 piston, but I'm a fan of the 6 piston kit, they are all very good though. This will again drop another 10-12lb from you brakes and susp mods. Get back on the track and get about 500 to 1000 miles and then comes the HP games. Its a good idea to start with changing those ristrictive OEM headers. Your choices here are the factory EURO OEM (CAT-LESS) header good for 5 Hp for around $1,000, or you can pick a lighter aftermarket header like MK-Motorsport for about $1,700 for 8 - 10 HP and about 5 lb lighter. You also have to replace your standard center factory resonators with either Euro Cats for $1,500 or again a lighter aftermarket freer flowing piece like MK-Motorsport for about $1,700 for about 7 HP gain. So far your gains are up to 20 HP with an exhaust muffler, and your weight savings is about 45 lb.
Now is the point of choice. From here you choose 1 or 2, forget about choice 3, M3s are for driving, maybe add an AMP and NAV if you don't have the factory unit but thats enough weight there. I guarantee you when you have replaced the complete exhaust system, you'll forget what CD's are in your changer. ITs not just the 20 HP, but those sounds that S54 can make with a free flowing system.
Now by then (lets say thats a few month down the line) the supercharger kits would have spread around the place, I promise you many M3 drivers want more than 500 HP. So you can either choose to fit one of the kits.

RMS offers 2 stages at this point. Stage I is advertised at 445 HP to the crank with 6 psi boost, that would be about 460 HP and around 380 lb-ft with the full exhaust. It seems safe to run this 6 psi of boost at around 7,900 with the stock 11.5:1. Stage II for RMS promises us with 503 HP at the crank, thats around 520 HP and around 460 lb-ft with the full exhaust. This has 10 lb of boost, 6 extra fuel injectors for a total of 12, after-cooler with water injection, and a thicker head gasket to lower compression ratio to 10.6:1 with a new rev limit of 7,500 RPM. This kit sounds the best for $$$ since it goes for around $15,000.
Lets just wait and see all the reviews. My suggestion, is wait somemore, be patient, I know its very hard. Delay the supercharger kit, and after your done with the full exhaust, susp and brakes, go the CSL route.



Here is what I suggest:

-Carbon Fibre Hood (12 lb drop)
-Carbon Fibre Trunk (22 lb drop)
-M3 CSL OEM seats, wait till it comes out in Europe and get the p/n or something like the GT3 seats (about 150 lb drop)
-M3 CSL carbon fibre airbox (about 15 HP) or if too Xpensive or unavailable go with one of the proven ones, MK-Motorsport or GruppeM, when Dynos show up you can judge better.

So far your total weight drop is around 219lb, that around 100 kg. You can go further with alum doors, CF units are avilable but not recomended. Maybe even take out the sound insulation, but IS THIS A TRACK CAR??? When modifying always address the main objective. ITs possible to maybe drop a total of around 250 lb reasonably without taking out the AC or insulation or changing the glass for lexan.

After this you can find out if TMS cams or schrick cams work with your airbox, add an ECU mapping for this kit and you'll hit around 390 HP and around 290 lb -ft, you might even crack 394 HP, which is 400 HP (DIN). This is the way to go if you are concerned about the Forced induction approach.

Otherwise, if you still feel the urge for BIG HP, then be prepared to shed out some money, I'm talking around $30k to $35k. I call it Stage III. Take the RMS Stage II, add a pulley with bigger boost. Find out what is the safest boost and go about 3 points less, so if max safe boost is 19 or 20 psi, then go with 16 psi, thats 1.1 Bar of boost. Well with that boost and the full exhaust your looking at over 630 HP. Now why is this more expensive than RMS stage II by about $15 to $20k. Well you need to spend about $8k-$10k for a complete low compression engine rebuild. You need low compression forged alum lightweight pistons (around 9.5:1), Titanum or chrmoly con rods, stronger crank shaft bearing, with crank shaft strengthening. Engine is then blue-printed. The top end should be completely redone with port and polish and blue -printed bigger valves and tit reatainers. Forced ind. spec cams are then installed. Then comes your drivetrain around $5,000 on lightweight flywheel, upgraded heavy duty clutch, drive shaft, and final drive ratio around 3.94:1. Now you spend another $3k-$5k for extra cooling. Big Alum racing radiator, additional oil cooler for diff. w/dry sump. Your hood better have some exhaust vents too. Listen the point is modifying your car is a big addiction and it could very easily get out of control.

Remember always what your aim is and too much HP doesn't always help your acceleration or lap times. Also keep in mind how much $$$ you want to spend. for choice 2 you can spend easily $15k - $20k, choice 1 could start at $20k but easily go up beyond $30k. If you are thinking of keeping this car for good, I say go with 2 and sample some real NA M Power at its peak, 390 HP i saroun 120 HP/L Normally aspirated, then when you are really bored of that kinda HP go for the big +500HP. Start on the track and then decide what needs to go first and what is last, you'll find out as you go that your initial plan is developing very well but in a different schedule than you expected. Enjoy your car always and drive sport with no DSC.

I say incremental change for 2 reasons:
-learning along the way
-giving time to performance kits to develop and mature

So I say go 2 and maybe then 1.

MPILOT, badass post. You hit on many things I have myself considered. I do not think going with your Stage 3 idea is practical. If we were to do forced induction, and do it right, that would be the way, however, for much cheaper, an m5 swap would be possible! The FI setup would blow the m5 swap away on power though. I do not think anyone is ready to spend 25k for supercharger + internals.

I have another option however:

Full NA buildup. Forged internals, which will run 8k, will allow the engine to spin safely to 9k rpm. Port the heads and get a cam to let the engine breathe that high, and the car should be at the 400+ hp mark while still being NA and being much safer then stock. A good shot of nitrous also could be added in case anyone is seeking 1/4 mile times. The problem with this setup is lowend would suffer, and the car would start being more of an s2000, all upper end power.

a) Turner Motorsport 390 Hp kit which include cams, ECU, groupeM carbon airbox, EURO OEM Headers, free flowing metallic cats, resonator by-pass, supersprint/Eisenmann S.S. muffler.
This kit looks very good filled with quality and performance. It maintains the OEM look with reliable natural aspirated performance. Performance numbers of 0-60 in 4.3 sec. and 0-100 around 11 sec. with 1/4 mile probably around 12 sec. (about $8,000)

b) MK-Motorsport 390 Hp kit. This one includes MK-Motorsport full S.S. exhaust (headers, free flowing cats and muffler), ECU, Carbon airbox. Here the carbon fibre airbox replaces all the factory air box components including the plenum where it ends at the throttle bodies. Here you get similar performance to the turner motorsport kit but the air intake is totally different which might enable better results at the higher RPMs. Quality is very evident on these components and natural aspirated marvel shines even further here than stock. Performance numbers of 0-60 in 4.3 sec. and 0-100 around 11 sec. with 1/4 mile probably around 12 sec. (about $10,000)

c) NOWACK auto + sport N400 engine-kit (EVO III), complete with:

NOWACK exclusive special sports-camshafts
NOWACK exclusive special forged pistons
balanced crankshaft
balanced connecting rods with adapted weights, -polished- completely prepared cylinderhead (in and outlets)
NOWACK exclusive special valve-springs
optimization of single throttle bodies
NOWACK exclusive complete sports exhaust system incl. stainless steel headers, high-performance motorsport catalytic converters, stainless steel rear silencer
optimization of air-intakes (RAM-air) and air flow special sports-air-filter
optimization of engine software including v-max. de-limitation (v-max. > 250 km/h)
complete assembly and adjustment on our Dynojet chassis dyno including power measurement before and after the conversion

power:
297 kw / 404 hp at 8,400 rpm

Rev limit: 8,800 rpm

max. torque:
400 Nm at 5.200 rpm. (300 lb-ft)

price:
€ 15.200,-- (about $15k US)

d) Well Oliver Nowack, the owner, told me that they are developing a N400 plus kit, which will have the same components for the N400 plus either the M3 CSL OEM CF airbox, or their own Nowack CF airbox, the cams are of different specs and expected output would be over 420 HP and around 9,000 RPM redline. Price about $20,000



Choices c and d are the most comrehensive and most expensive, but thats the best. With all the internals strengthened including that "weak" crank/conrod revised, these should really be the best naturally aspirated choices if all the money is available. YOu don't even have to send your car to Germany. They'll send a completed and dynoed engine to your spec N400 or N400+ and you'll then send your engine for a calculated rebate.

But when RMS Stage II costs around $15,000 for over 500 HP and over 400 lb-ft.....And if you want to consider the S62 V8 from the M5, expect to pay around $30,000 for the stock engine swap. Then you can get 525 HP kit from Nowack for another $20,000. It might be the golden choice out there but for a total of around $60,000 (with drive train and cooling mods) that just becomes too much gold for me.

MPILOT, I really like choice C, is there anymore info? I would be very interested if they give new internals and a higher redline. 15k is a lot, but I would have peace of mind, plus much more power.

If i were to mod it now, i would prabally get only a few partd.
1. Headers
2. X pipe
3. Wait for csl airbox, or get a Gruppe M
4. Schrick cams
5. A hiop chip