Hey guys,

Its been awhile since I have posted on the kill forum. Maybe thats because I havent had a decent race lately. Anyways I have been reading a lot about S2000s vs M3 from standing starts on the street but I have not heard much about freeway comparos. Well, I got what I was looking for yesterday.

Coming home from my girlfriends house on the 1 south two lane. Tooling along at like 80 lazily cutting through traffic. I get into the fast lane and what do I see? A yellow S2000 Honda. Initially I dont think anything of it until I get right on his bumper. I notice that he has replaced his dual stock exhaust with an aftermarket one with a single large tip. Now I begin to think that he might want to play.

I see a opening in the slow lane and blow by him to get ahead of the three cars ahead of him. I slow to eighty and wait to see if he takes the bait. Sure enough within 10 seconds he is coming in behind me from the slow lane. He made the same mannuver that I did. He gets right up behind me and turns his HID headlights on. Now I know he wants a fight!

We continue on for four or five miles in heavy trafiic with him stuck to me like a fly on, well you know. Traffic is too heavy to really do anything but what I do notice is that when I stick in fourth gear at about 80 and take a hole shot through traffic it takes him a few seconds to catch up. Maybe his torque curve is a bit less usable than mine? Anyways we continue dodging through traffic at relativly slow speeds really no proving anything to each other. I am now wondering if anything will come of each others obvious intent...........

So then Highway 1 turns in three lanes just past La Selva. He speeds up in the fast lane but I find a hole in the slowest lane and break right to execute the pass. He is still behind. He gets stuck behind a box truck. I am still 2 or 3 spots ahead of him. I decide to wait. Once again I stick into the mid lane and watch as he executes a few manuvers to catch up. Seems to be a qualified driver, maybe lacking a little in aggresivness..:devillook I run ahead again and cut sideways through two cars in the mid lane and get into the slowest lane which has no traffic for about half a mile. I see him get speed in the fast lane and he begins to speed up....I wait for him to come to my door one lane away and we look at each other........Bam!.....third gear in the ///M and I am off. He falls behind quickly , although I was not pulling because I dont think he downshifted. I get to 100 and shut it down. He goes flying by in the fast lane and I get behind him. Lets see what he does now.......

We continue to be stuck behind traffic doing 80. I check my machine for rediness because I know the final round is coming within minutes. Temp...ok,fuel....half a tank,rear view mirror.....no cops. So we get past the first Watsonville exit and traffic clears! He begins to speed up and I see that he is going to cut into the slow lane and get into the clear past that fast lane. I drop into fourth, match revs and I am ready. He goes! Break right still on his tail and I think he is going to at most 100 mph. He is full on it in the now clear freeway. I have it to the floor redline then fifth gear, bamn! Shift done...we are now above 100 miles an hour. He keeps going; I am really amazed he is still on it. We are DEAD even until we shut it down at about 145. (traffic) I tried to pull around into the slow lane at 135 but it wasnt happening and we then hit traffic. After that I took the slow lane to blow by him and he was right back on my bumper. From there we were stuck in traffic and he turned off just before the freeway opens up again.

In conclusion, these cars are potent and should be approached with caution in a race. I was impressed with the freeway power and would have to say that this is where these cars shine. Interesting if not dangerous situation usually I can never get these cars to play. Opinions or related thought or stories anyone?

Nice run. I live in Capitola, I think i've seen your car around.

Nice race. I love S2000's, they look awesome

Interesting. I would think that S2000's would get the crap kicked out of them on highway due to their lack of torque. Did the exhaust seem to be the only mod? I have yet to race one an S2000 but I like to think that I would be able to pull. Anyway, good run and be safe!

hahaha very entertaining!

......I would think highway speeds are where the Sk's shine forth brightest........ Main reason is because they wouldnt have to wait as long to enter V-tec, and thats where their power is .... also too those cars are really light(compared to ///M) ... My sisters b/f has one, and i love the sound of that motor!!!! and the pull from 7,500 to 9,000rpm redline is fun fun fun!!!!

I have one, and trust me on the highway it's SOOOOO FUN

it sounds like an F1 car and you feel like the power is neverending

I raced my friend and we quit at around 135 and it felt like it could keep going. though I think it's gear limited to around 140 something

peace

Nick

ppl that just look @ hp/torque numbers aren't look at everything...

for the s2k/other vtec engines etc (most NA race engines in general---big hp and torque that isn't 'that much up there'....check the ferraris =) )

the torque/hp builds up, very linearly----usually up to whatever "high rpm" they're set for..


that way, the s2k has power all the way up to redline =)...

that matched with 'proper gearing' is excellent...(oh yeah and weight)...



now if only honda made some nice sixes/8's (12's!!!) in rwd form that we here in the US could use/slobber over...
torque to match the competitors, and HP to blow them away....

----yet another reason why i love Eurospec ///M's :love1 :love1 , and of course, our e46


im begging for a mere ~4000 cc NA V8,





:mdrbig :mdrbig :mdrbig

I used to own an S2000. On the highway is where they shine. They suck out of the hole with any launch short of a masochistic clutch drop.

All of what you guys said seems to be the case.....off the line I would not have any fear but on the freeway they can really stretch their legs. One of my fellow M3 friends was of the same opinion of 95DinanM3 , that is that a lightly modded M3 should moke the S2k. I kept telling him that once the S2k has the opportunity to get upstairs you have a problem or at least a match. Dont forget these cars are equal in 1/4 mile to the M3.

Hey Volfman,

We should have a local get together here in Santa Cruz. I was having the same discussion with TiAgM3. He lives in SC and told me that there was a few of us that should get together. Are you interested. If you dont respond to this I will PM you.

Later, Alex

Originally posted by ///Mr. Three
All of what you guys said seems to be the case.....off the line I would not have any fear but on the freeway they can really stretch their legs. One of my fellow M3 friends was of the same opinion of 95DinanM3 , that is that a lightly modded M3 should moke the S2k. I kept telling him that once the S2k has the opportunity to get upstairs you have a problem or at least a match. Dont forget these cars are equal in 1/4 mile to the M3.

Yeah, I dont doubt the S2000's capabilities at all. The only reason I think I could pull on one is because most of the people that drive them around here are spoiled rich kids who cant drive for shit in the first place, and the S2000 is a finicky beast as far as launching. From a roll or something, it could get very interesting.....

S2000s are fast on the beltway because you can rev allllll the way until 9G....they probably start at like 6-6,5. That's where their power is.....from a stop, you probably would have won, but from a roll, you shift at 6,8-7 and they shift at 9......it's logical.

They're quick.......especially on the beltways......nice run though..

Originally posted by 95DinanM3
Yeah, I dont doubt the S2000's capabilities at all. The only reason I think I could pull on one is because most of the people that drive them around here are spoiled rich kids who cant drive for shit in the first place, and the S2000 is a finicky beast as far as launching. From a roll or something, it could get very interesting.....

95DinanM3 I totally agree with what you are saying.:laugh

to get a good 1/4 the technique is a 6000rpm clutch dump

I've never had the heart to do it yet...just too insane

I love the car too much, but I want the euro M3 more, so it has to go. It is a thrill to cruse around in though.

Nick

Try 7700 rpm and riding the clutch for a good launch... it wasn't my car... :D

Originally posted by SilverStreak
Try 7700 rpm and riding the clutch for a good launch... it wasn't my car... :D

Didn't you get a 13.66 or something like that??

Yeah, 13.66. The best Kenny (the owner) could get was a 14.1 and he was launching at 6600 rpm and having wheelspin issues above that.

I tweaked his tire pressures and rode the clutch a bit more, no easy task, but a fun little car...

i used to have a "Spa Yellow" '01 s2k that i sold back in September. It makes me laugh when people talk about lack of torque, dropping the clutch at 6k...blah blah blah. When my car was stock i used to be dead even with 95 M3's on moderate to good launches @ 6200rpm. With a great launch i would be dead even with 96+ M3's. The problem with M3 owners who hop into s2k's is that they're used to the "power when you mash it" syndrome that the great torque our cars affords us. Also, it doesn't help that their test drives are usually your buddies new car or at the $tealer where you can't really feel free to err. explore? If you are not familiar with high-revving 4bangers (specifically Honda's) or have ever owned a 600cc to 900cc motorcycle it's very hard to appreciate the s2k. That analogy is the best i could come up with, 'cause that's what it's like. My favorite gear used to be third, i would wait for my victim at about 75-80mph and take that to 120 or so - as the kid's say, it would be a "wrap" at that point. The reason i sold it? The "M" just happens to do more things better - a more balanced car. Pros - go-kart like handling out of the box. Very sexy. Appeals to the racerboy in all of us. Droptop driving with ultrarigid chassis. Cons - snaps at the limit, not very progressive. Very harsh drive for daily-driver. attracts too much attention? if it ain't at least 50 outside don't come out on stock tires. LOL.

The S2K is a sweet car. No Doubt. I wonder what the RX-8 will sound like, I believe that's a 10K RPM limit...just be cool to see 10K rpm's...

I think even on the highway, with a modded M3 -- the S2K would put up a good ass fight. I don't see modded M3's beating a S2K by 3-4 CL's as people exclaim. I would think maybe 1/2-1 CL. My friend took me for a drive in one of those -- very fun car....felt peppy as hell!

I was just not thoroughly pleased with the interior of the car; but, other than that, very good price for a great car!

Originally posted by NoSoup4U
The S2K is a sweet car. No Doubt. I wonder what the RX-8 will sound like, I believe that's a 10K RPM limit...just be cool to see 10K rpm's...

I think even on the highway, with a modded M3 -- the S2K would put up a good ass fight. I don't see modded M3's beating a S2K by 3-4 CL's as people exclaim. I would think maybe 1/2-1 CL. My friend took me for a drive in one of those -- very fun car....felt peppy as hell!

I was just not thoroughly pleased with the interior of the car; but, other than that, very good price for a great car!

Although the RX8 will rev to 10k rpm it won't be loud or sound anything like a piston engine running at the same speed. Ever drive in an RX-7? They are too damn quiet. The engines have very few moving parts ie no pistons, rods, timing chains, etc.

NosoupforU-it did put up quite a fight, no doubt....

i was looking into an s2000 before i got the m coupe...they are a blast to drive but the lack of torque wasnt for me...i love the seating position and tranny but it is made to drift through a race track not drive fast daily

Originally posted by NoSoup4U
I think even on the highway, with a modded M3 -- the S2K would put up a good ass fight. I don't see modded M3's beating a S2K by 3-4 CL's as people exclaim. I would think maybe 1/2-1 CL.


Hey Soup: Well, it depends on how modded you mean. They certainly disappear in my rear view mirror pretty fast! I would love to get an S2000 along to our next "road test" to run it against some stock E36 321 bhp M3s and get a comparison.

The thing I don't like about them is that they make a whole lot of "engine working" noise without actually going very fast. Like it's all noise and drama without much delivery.

Originally posted by jcolem3
Although the RX8 will rev to 10k rpm it won't be loud or sound anything like a piston engine running at the same speed. Ever drive in an RX-7? They are too damn quiet. The engines have very few moving parts ie no pistons, rods, timing chains, etc.

Hey jcolem3: I can't believe you just said that rotaries are too quiet! They must be the loudest cars on the road. Even stock they are loud, but when bridgeported or - put your fingers in your ears - peripheral ported, they are deafening.

The very nature of the engine you mentioned - no pistons, valves, etc - mean the path from the combustion 'chamber' to the outside world is much more direct than in a conventional piston engine. And therefore a whole lot louder.

In stock form with a turbo hanging off it and with stock exhaust, mufflers, etc, they are a lot tamer. But show me a quick rotary that retains the stock exhaust and I'lll show you a slow one!

Blonde-

You do not count, your car is a monster. Plus, it's not really fair to take a euro stock E36 M3 versus a S2000. You need a US spec 240 hp M3 against a stock S2000. That as Dave mentioned, should come down to driving skill since they seem "numerically" matched (but, numbers vary from mag to mag).

I disagree with a part of your post, when the S2000 is moving (not from a stand still) and is around 6K plus RPM-wise, they tend to scoot along pretty well. *But, comparing it to the 321 hp M3 is not fair.....

"The thing I don't like about them is that they make a whole lot of "engine working" noise without actually going very fast. Like it's all noise and drama without much delivery"

This is true and not true. While the S2k can run respectable acceleration numbers, the flat tq curver (132 lb ft on the dyno) makes for very undramatic acceleration. No 'kick you in the pants' rush. So, most people perceive lots of noise and not a lot of excitement, but the car is still deceivingly fast.

I got frustrated when I would put friends in my S2k and take them for a balls-out ride. They'd sort of look at me like, 'huh, this is all she has?'

Jeff: Yeah, the actual seat of your pants experience is sometimes quite different to the look or sound of the car. Like a Porsche 996 twin turbo. It all seems so sedate inside the car, and on the outside it seems so quiet. But try to run with one!

Originally posted by 95DinanM3
Interesting. I would think that S2000's would get the crap kicked out of them on highway due to their lack of torque. Did the exhaust seem to be the only mod? I have yet to race one an S2000 but I like to think that I would be able to pull. Anyway, good run and be safe!

in reality they do quite well on the highways. It is the launching they have trouble with due to their 7000rpm or something like that for the peak torque, thus resulting in a 9000rpm redline

great run by the way

thanks all for responding!

Originally posted by comptechgsr
now if only honda made some nice sixes/8's (12's!!!) in rwd form that we here in the US could use/slobber over...
torque to match the competitors, and HP to blow them away....

3.2 DOHC VTEC :D

Originally posted by sensasian
3.2 DOHC VTEC :D

Acura TL Type-S ?

yep:D

Originally posted by sensasian
3.2 DOHC VTEC :D


nah nah, screw da 3.2 cls...


more like an engine that does more than 100hp/liter (for the 6's/8's)...

more than the nsx, bigger displacement, like a 4.0 v8 making 460hp/400tq

lol, an s2000 tried to pick a race with me on almaden expressway while the streets were wet, needless to say, he floored it, i didnt, he lost traction, car turned sideways, hit the curb divider, did a 3 foot hop and couldnt drive away, poor guy

Don't underestimate the 3.2 in the CL Type S, when matched with the 6 spd, that car moves pretty well... 14.1 in fact...

Yes, but don't expect a 14.1 out of 99.84% of the drivers on the road. Most will run no better than a high 14, I would imagine.

I'm not THAT good, Ron, although I'll say thanks for the compliment... ;)

Well, it wasn't SO much a compliment (it was, but not solely) as it was a statement of my lack of confidence in the average person to launch a car with any skill.

As I've found out myself, it's not easy to get a good start with a car that has some power. Hell, my first 1/4-mile run was a 15.1. Bleh...

Maybe it's the crowd I hang out with, I'm good, but I'm no where near "great" if you know what I mean, I have friends doing a lot more with a lot less than me, etc....

Originally posted by SilverStreak
Don't underestimate the 3.2 in the CL Type S, when matched with the 6 spd, that car moves pretty well... 14.1 in fact...

And dont forget that you can get an extra 30hp just H/I/E.
They're pretty fast in a straight line.

Originally posted by comptechgsr
nah nah, screw da 3.2 cls...


more like an engine that does more than 100hp/liter (for the 6's/8's)...

more than the nsx, bigger displacement, like a 4.0 v8 making 460hp/400tq

I agree. But Honda is really stubborn sometimes. I guess thats one of the things with being such a small car company.
It will be interesting to see what they decide to do with the NSX. I hate how Honda is so secretive.!

Originally posted by Estoril Blue
lol, an s2000 tried to pick a race with me on almaden expressway while the streets were wet, needless to say, he floored it, i didnt, he lost traction, car turned sideways, hit the curb divider, did a 3 foot hop and couldnt drive away, poor guy

They can be a lil sassy if you don't respect them. No traction control, etc..

Originally posted by sensasian
3.2 DOHC VTEC :D

actually, the TL-S is SOHC.

J32A2 engine.

""I have friends doing a lot more with a lot less than me, etc....""

thats true, when my brother used to have his acura integra 94' (intake/stage 2 clutch/short shift/17"/big brake kit/good suspention setup) well he killed numerous GSRs CLK430s/500 and other upscale/fast cars that should've killed him if they knew how to shift better, but my brother took that poor LS motor to the limit, he was constantly above 6k rpm...
well he sold it at 202 k + miles and we still see the car passing from time to time... those LS engines are very strong from what i've heard and my prother proved it to be right...