s52
gt35r
8.5:1 cp pistons
Eagle rods
stock thickness steel head gasket
spa manifold
24x12x3 intercooler
ARP headstuds
AEM standalone

What kind of potential would this have? What would you say this motor could handle peak hp-wise?

The guy who was going to sell me his gt3076r decided to keep the turbo. While I still have the same goals I would like to know how far this motor could be taken and make sure I am not right there at it's limitation.

Matters on the turbo. This build and using the AEM should get you some pretty numbers.

I know the hp matters on the turbo. I just want a idea of how hard the motor can be pushed(best guess at least). 500s? 600s? 700s?

not too far, youll need supportting mod that arent listed youll need a fuel system and all the goodies that go with a high horsepower motor, you should be able to push well into the 800s however it doesnt matter what turbo you run because with that spa manifold your restricted to a T3.

What about injectors? You could probably reach 700s, but in my own opinion, I think that 8.5:1 is too low.

well the Eagle rods have been tested beyond 800 rwhp according to PPF

if you do a full motor build even with stock head internals the motor should be capable of sustaining 700rwhp.

you need to make sure you have a good fuel and ignition system.

I didn't list the variables like injectors, wastegate springs/sizes, turbo or fuel pump because I am not 100% on those. Those items I can go with whatever I want. So those are not my limiting factors. What I listed pretty much is tho. ;)

Do a T4 exhaust manifold instead with GT4094R and make 850whp with nice powerband. :)

I think that 8.5:1 is too low.

Can you expound on that?

I didn't list the variables like injectors, wastegate springs/sizes, turbo or fuel pump because I am not 100% on those. Those items I can go with whatever I want. So those are not my limiting factors. What I listed pretty much is tho. ;)

your biggest or near biggest turbo you can run on the t3 flanged manifold is a t67 which flows about 75lbs. that and the log style manifold will be some chock points, and the t3 back housing seem to be more limited up top.

Do a T4 exhaust manifold instead with GT4094R and make 850whp with nice powerband. :)

lol!

I am not wanting that much. The most powerful car I have ever driven is a 03 Cobra. I would definately want more experience before I go there. But I have no plans on something like that. I just want 450-500ish right now.

W/ my AEM I can always get another tune if I change my manifold, intercooler, turbo, ect.

lol!

I am not wanting that much. The most powerful car I have ever driven is a 03 Cobra. I would definately want more experience before I go there. But I have no plans on something like that. I just want 450-500ish right now.

W/ my AEM I can always get another tune if I change my manifold, intercooler, turbo, ect.

youll be able to achieve a very reliable(sp) setup.

lol!

I am not wanting that much. The most powerful car I have ever driven is a 03 Cobra. I would definately want more experience before I go there. But I have no plans on something like that. I just want 450-500ish right now.

W/ my AEM I can always get another tune if I change my manifold, intercooler, turbo, ect.
Okay, still get a T4 exhaust manifold so you can go big later. Get a .68 pt67 DBB turbo which will spool full around 3k and be an amazing turbo from 400-700whp. That would suit all your needs right there! Believe me, after riding in ParadigmGuys car, that is the turbo right there! :eyecrazy

Okay, still get a T4 exhaust manifold so you can go big later. Get a .68 pt67 DBB turbo which will spool full around 3k and be an amazing turbo from 400-700whp. That would suit all your needs right there! Believe me, after riding in ParadigmGuys car, that is the turbo right there! :eyecrazy

i think a pt61 will be alot better suited for this application, he would be running at the perfect eff/

Okay, still get a T4 exhaust manifold so you can go big later. Get a .68 pt67 DBB turbo which will spool full around 3k and be an amazing turbo from 400-700whp. That would suit all your needs right there! Believe me, after riding in ParadigmGuys car, that is the turbo right there! :eyecrazy

Can someone point me where I could read up on the manifold turbo brackets? I am lost when it comes to understanding what a T3 means or a t4...how about a t3/t4?:eyecrazy

i say gt35r t4 flanged. Super spooly and you'll get your 500whp no problem.

i say gt35r t4 flanged. Super spooly and you'll get your 500whp no problem.

gt35r = pt61 more or less :rolleyes

I think your motor will be limited by the MLS HG. As has been seen before:

1) If you have a poor tune (leading to detonation and HG destruction)
or
2) You have 10mm studs and boost too high (leading to the head lifting)

you will pop the HG.

Forgot to mention ARP headstuds. Not sure if that changes what you said or not Rogue.

the set up you have will definately yield your desired HP level of 450-500...but once you get used to that you would want to go more...
simple way of explaining the t3, t4, t3/t4 would be t3= t3 exhaust flange with a matching smaller sized compressor, t3/t4= t3 exhaust flange with t4 (bigger compressor), t4= t4 exhaust flange with a matching big compressor...thats how i explain it to myself....

Forgot to mention ARP headstuds. Not sure if that changes what you said or not Rogue.
Some people say that ARP 10mm studs (normal size for the m50/m52 blocks) dont have enough hold and instead it would be better to machine the block for 11mm ARP studs. (Ulysses and the Bumble Bee have 11mm studs...)

Who knows for sure how much better/more effective the 11mm studs are...:confused

For 450 or 500whp you wont need 11mm studs, though. Im just saying that the limiting factor in your setup (eventually when you want big power) would be the HG and studs (considering the pistons and rods will last up to and through 850-900whp)

I am not looking to take the throne from any of those guys. So hopefully I won't be having the head wanting to lift issue.

so what t4 manifold are you going to run? I think if you're looking for a T4 manifold you're looking at PPF's, 666fabrication.com, boostlogic.com and looking at $1200+

I would look into the 600s on that setup and be happy with that...

so what t4 manifold are you going to run? I think if you're looking for a T4 manifold you're looking at PPF's, 666fabrication.com, boostlogic.com and looking at $1200+
One of the downsides to the T4 route is the price. Seeing as how there arent any Log-style T4 manifolds for the m50/52 motors, you have to go tubular which is generally big $$ regardless of whether or not its T3 or T4.

Ulysses made 635whp with his T3 Log Manifold and the GT35R....it sounds like the OP would be more than happy with a T3 manifold as it would be cheaper, easier to fit, wouldnt require an external oil pump (if done correctly), and would more than support his HP goals.

it seems like he wants about 500hp put of it but I'm assuming everyone is recommending a T4 mani to save money later on in case he decides to upgrade

Yeah my bad. T4 mani does cost more. I was just thinking about the walls that I set up for myself in the past and the money it took to knock down those walls for the next level of power. However, I have to remember that 600whp is usually plenty of whp for most people.

A T3 mani can support a pt67 p-trim making up to 700ishwhp.

I have the tools available to have a t4 manifold made for me. My brother is a pretty good welder.

T4 mani does cost more.
Not only that but it is somewhat detrimental below certain power levels. Essentially because the tubular will increase spool time, its not beneficial until the ceiling of the T3 is approached or reached. (high 600s whp)

However, I have to remember that 600whp is usually plenty of whp for most people. A T3 mani can support a pt67 p-trim making up to 700ishwhp.
Exactly. I think this forum jades people as 400rwhp is alot to handle....bump that to 700whp and its damn near unuseable on the street especially in the E36 chassis.

I have the tools available to have a t4 manifold made for me. My brother is a pretty good welder.
If you are shooting for 450whp, then a T3 is more than fine (as I reasoned above).

In fact, it will also allow you to get the itch and increase the boost atleast a few times after you get bored of 450whp. You could bump it to 550whp, then maybe 650whp should you so desire, all while hanging on to the T3 manifold.

One of the downsides to the T4 route is the price. Seeing as how there arent any Log-style T4 manifolds for the m50/52 motors, you have to go tubular which is generally big $$ regardless of whether or not its T3 or T4.

Ulysses made 635whp with his T3 Log Manifold and the GT35R....it sounds like the OP would be more than happy with a T3 manifold as it would be cheaper, easier to fit, wouldnt require an external oil pump (if done correctly), and would more than support his HP goals.

if you HAVE to run any sort of oil scavange pump setup is usually due to the user constructing the oil return imporperlym t3 are no "easier" to fit then any t4, a t3 flanged and t4 flanged gt35 is eccesiontely(sp) the same size, and on top of that the mojority of t3 flanged turbo have a more restrictive back housing. is t3 was the best option other communities would run that (t3) as their flange of choice.

if you HAVE to run any sort of oil scavange pump setup is usually due to the user constructing the oil return imporperlym t3 are no "easier" to fit then any t4, a t3 flanged and t4 flanged gt35 is eccesiontely(sp) the same size, and on top of that the mojority of t3 flanged turbo have a more restrictive back housing. is t3 was the best option other communities would run that (t3) as their flange of choice.
All of what I said was in relation to the BMW Market. Im not talking T3 or T4 in general, but instead whats available in OUR marketplace.

Show me a T4 manifold for our M50/52 motors that mounts the turbo high enough to allow it to gravity-drain into the pan....;)

Outside of the BMW market you would be right, but then again why would we want to discuss other makes and models when his question SPECIFICALLY references BMWs? :confused

Eccesiontely= Essentially

All of what I said was in relation to the BMW Market. Im not talking T3 or T4 in general, but instead whats available in OUR marketplace.

Show me a T4 manifold for our M50/52 motors that mounts the turbo high enough to allow it to gravity-drain into the pan....;)

Outside of the BMW market you would be right, but then again why would we want to discuss other makes and models when his question SPECIFICALLY references BMWs? :confused

Eccesiontely= Essentially

boostlogic and 666fabrication both dont require and oil scavange pump.

boostlogic and 666fabrication both dont require and oil scavange pump.
How sure of this are you? I am/was nearly positive that the BL manifold required an external pump. (I also though Ulysses ran one with his 666 manifold..:confused )

How sure of this are you? I am/was nearly positive that the BL manifold required an external pump. (I also though Ulysses ran one with his 666 manifold..:confused )

ive ran the boostlogic manifold and have know too people that have not, its all about a proper drain.

ive ran the boostlogic manifold and have know too people that have not, its all about a proper drain.
:embarrasm Well, I stand corrected with regard to the BL manifold. The 666 Manifold may or may not need an external pump, but considering how similar it looks (and is designed) to the Radowski manifold and the fact that the Radowski manifold requires a pump, makes me think the 666 needs one too.

Regardless of whether or not a T4 manifold needs an external pump, you are still dealing with the increased spool time and costs of the T4, when under 700whp you would be better suited with a T3 (all things considered).

How sure of this are you? I am/was nearly positive that the BL manifold required an external pump. (I also though Ulysses ran one with his 666 manifold..:confused )
AFAIK, he does run one...or at least I saw one when I was looking at the car last time it was @ ICS.
:embarrasm Well, I stand corrected with regard to the BL manifold. The 666 Manifold may or may not need an external pump, but considering how similar it looks (and is designed) to the Radowski manifold and the fact that the Radowski manifold requires a pump, makes me think the 666 needs one too.
Your right, Rich. One day when I was talking to George, I asked him the same question and he said a pump is def needed.

AFAIK, he does run one...or at least I saw one when I was looking at the car last time it was @ ICS.

Your right, Rich. One day when I was talking to George, I asked him the same question and he said a pump is def needed.
Thanks Dave. Im glad I was right for 2/3 of the T4 offerrings. :)

Hopefully once I get my GT35R 332 sorted out we can run them "in Mexico". It will be roughly the same rwhp but two totally different forms of FI. :buttrock

Thanks Dave. Im glad I was right for 2/3 of the T4 offerrings. :)

Hopefully once I get my GT35R 332 sorted out we can run them "in Mexico". It will be roughly the same rwhp but two totally different forms of FI. :buttrock

Hell yeah, you know I'm down!!! :buttrock I plan on stopping by the shop in the spring to show the guys the car, I'm sure I'll run into you there. :evil2 We can even have one of the guys be the camera bitch! :D

Ok, it's settled. I bought a gt35r tonight. A guy sold me a 500 mile old one here on bf.com for $800. Too good of a deal to pass up.

So that's the plan....a gt35r.

go big or go home!

Ok, it's settled. I bought a gt35r tonight. A guy sold me a 500 mile old one here on bf.com for $800. Too good of a deal to pass up.

So that's the plan....a gt35r.

Sick ass deal bro...good luck with the set up ;)

Not only that but it is somewhat detrimental below certain power levels. Essentially because the tubular will increase spool time, its not beneficial until the ceiling of the T3 is approached or reached. (high 600s whp)

This is not neccessarily true.... moadster stated in his dyno thread he gained around 80 whp by stepping up to the BL T4 mani, w/his PT-61 .68 (journal bearing) he saw full boost ~3500rpm.. not too shabby. Not trying to start an arguement, but you make a T4 sound like such a bad thing. I'd rather not get a huge vertical spike by mating a GT35R to a T3 to make my 600whp... You will also most likely run out up top. Mike Radowski was running out on top w/a T4 GT35R... If you limit yourself to a T3 a GT35r 1.06 is as big as it gets. Granted Ulysses and ICS did some wonderful things with his T3 setup, but be honest, how many ppl here are willing to put in that much time, effort, and more importantly money into tuning time to make that happen. With a nice T4 Tubular, that power will be more easily attained. You see full boost around 3200rpm w/a PT-61 .58.... DBB would only improve on this. IMO a T3 mani would be better suited to a GT30R or the Hybrids that come with the TT stage 2 kit... All the tuners on here run turbos such as these on their T3's (spooltime, def, techno, nick G puts it on his kit) :dunno



If you are shooting for 450whp, then a T3 is more than fine (as I reasoned above).


want to add that I totally agree with this... just needed to defend the T4 a little bit :D

Are there any good clutches that would be good for 500-600hp that work well with a stock flywheel?

Right now I have the sprung-hub clutch disc clutch and flywheel made by Rogue. I doubt that will live to see many hours in this car.

Are there any good clutches that would be good for 500-600hp that work well with a stock flywheel?

Right now I have the sprung-hub clutch disc clutch and flywheel made by Rogue. I doubt that will live to see many hours in this car.

i have a UUC Ultrasmooth that would be great for you.

Are there any injectors that will be good for 475-600hp? Can 42# get me there?

Are there any injectors that will be good for 475-600hp? Can 42# get me there?
42# injectors are REALLY close to their max duty cycle at ~500whp. For 600rwhp you would be better off with 550cc injectors. (Ulysses made 635whp on his set of 550cc injectors)

42# injectors are REALLY close to their max duty cycle at ~500whp. For 600rwhp you would be better off with 550cc injectors. (Ulysses made 635whp on his set of 550cc injectors)

What # are 550cc injectors?

What # are 550cc injectors?

53lbs

53lbs

Where can I get them? I have done a search in google. But I am not sure what type I need.

Where can I get them? I have done a search in google. But I am not sure what type I need.

any top feed 14mm should work, rochester, rc, precision, accel, blitz, etc
i can also get them.

Are there any injectors that will be good for 475-600hp? Can 42# get me there?
You always want to be a littler bigger just in case. Better to overkill than underkill. Go with 60s to 70s. Some nice 720cc will handle what you throw at them.

You always want to be a littler bigger just in case. Better to overkill than underkill. Go with 60s to 70s. Some nice 720cc will handle what you throw at them.

larger injectors can be harder to tune a nice idle, also if he is going to be useing the stock ecu he will be limited to high imdence injectors unless he wants to run a resistor box. you can get high impendence injectors in that size but you pay mad $$$$$

My final list of parts is coming together. I have a few more questions though.

s52
gt35r .70 A/R
8.5:1 cp pistons
Eagle rods
stock thickness steel head gasket
spa manifold
24x12x3 intercooler
ARP headstuds
AEM standalone
55# injectors
fuel pump

What wastegate and bov should I get? I read the thread on the different sounds but that's not what I mean. I mean power-wise what hardware would work best for me?

How much boost should my motor and turbo be able to handle? What about HP. What would you guess I can get max?

Thanks again fellas!

What wastegate and bov should I get? I read the thread on the different sounds but that's not what I mean. I mean power-wise what hardware would work best for me?
ICS recommends a Turbosmart 48mm Wastegate. Here is a recent thread on Wastegates where some (UrineMachine) feel a Tial 38mm is fine for most any setup while others think going Tial 44mm is better to keep things on the safe side..kind of a "just in case": http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=662976&highlight=wastegate

How much boost should my motor and turbo be able to handle? What about HP. What would you guess I can get max?
The max hp will be determined in this setup by your injectors. Given the proper fuel and with a good tune, Andreas says the Eagle rods are good for ~750rwhp. (he said 900hp on an engine dyno)

What I cant really figure out is exactly how much boost these motors can handle, even with a stock thickness HG. Some say that over 20psi the head will lift when you are using 10mm studs, others say you can push it harder than that. Does anyone have a definitive answer on when the head begins to lift (at what PSI)?

Thanks for the info. What kind of hp can be made on this setup at 20psi?

^^^

looking at the 55# injectors, ~500, if you go bigger on injectors, you might go high 500s

thanks!

looking at the 55# injectors, ~500, if you go bigger on injectors, you might go high 500s
The 55# injectors should actually support in excess of 630rwhp. (Card Counter made 635whp on 550cc injectors which are smaller than 55# injectors). The Walboro 255LPH tops out at that level, as well.

I think at 19psi, with the proper injectors you should make somewhere in the neighborhood of 580whp. I believe an old member named "iceman633" (who ended up being a deadbeat ass) made around there on 19psi on a fully built S52. 20psi might get you to 600rwhp.

What should I do about metering?

I didn't even think about how that will be handled. MAF? HFM? What size? Go with a 993tt hfm? Blow-through? Pull-through?

im obdII as well and im running tec3r, which uses MAP instead of HFM, since there arent a lot of obdII tuners and i dont live anywhere close to anybody that does, also remote tuning is pretty expensive, i was forced either tec3r or convert to obdI, which it almost comes out to the same, when you include tuning in the conversion....

What should I do about metering?

I didn't even think about how that will be handled. MAF? HFM? What size? Go with a 993tt hfm? Blow-through? Pull-through?

If you are looking at big numbers, you might have to go MAP. I doubt you will get over 450rwhp with the 993tt MAF.

go big or go home!

unfortunately that often means go big, go pop, go home sad and broke.

I prefer the go home, then to work, then home, then to work... repeated as many times as I'd like in my fairly quick daily driver that is turn key reliable... ;)

For the goals JC expressed, a T4 manifold doesn't make sense. Even the 35R may be slightly oversized, but not horribly so. He seems to want a given (very achievable, and fairly low by some standards) power level, and is building the motor to make that 100% reliable... not to try to set records. Making a very reliable 400-500 rwhp is doable. Most of the 400+ hp cars on here wouldn't survive 30 minutes of track use. Making 600hp is great, and only needing it to do that for ~13 seconds at a time makes it MUCH easier.

The use of the car should be considered in the design.

If you are looking at big numbers, you might have to go MAP. I doubt you will get over 450rwhp with the 993tt MAF.

993 maf meters more than the 540 maf, correct? Rafa is using the 540/euro maf and making ~450...

AEM standalone

What should I do about metering?

I didn't even think about how that will be handled. MAF? HFM? What size? Go with a 993tt hfm? Blow-through? Pull-through?
What happenned to the AEM Standalone idea? If you go that route you can take advantage of the AEM Map-Based metering which will eliminate the need for an HFM or MAF meter.

What happenned to the AEM Standalone idea? If you go that route you can take advantage of the AEM Map-Based metering which will eliminate the need for an HFM or MAF meter.

iirc, the AEM can use either MAF or MAP. MAF is a more precise way of doing things, especially if the car is likely to see a wide range of operating conditions.

What happenned to the AEM Standalone idea? If you go that route you can take advantage of the AEM Map-Based metering which will eliminate the need for an HFM or MAF meter.

I am still on a steep learning curve. I had no idea I could make it w/o a maf/hfm. But what Mike says might sway me to use a maf is I will get better results.

Does anyone else have experience with standalone and metering the air?

Making a very reliable 400-500 rwhp is doable. Most of the 400+ hp cars on here wouldn't survive 30 minutes of track use.



Mike what type of setups are you refering to here?

Those 2 statements are fairly contradictory.

Mike what type of setups are you refering to here?

Those 2 statements are fairly contradictory.
Probably because he is referring to "most" as in a lot of the systems he has not built himself, yet if he builds it making a very reliable 400-500 rwhp is doable. :)

993 maf meters more than the 540 maf, correct? Rafa is using the 540/euro maf and making ~450...

If that is true, then by all means, I recommend JC staying with the Motronic and using the 993 MAF instead. The only downside to MAFs are the power restrictions. Even though you are a track whore and enjoy every bit of your setup, there are people out there that get boost happy and will want more. Also, you can not say that there are no reliable setups that use MAP metering out there. The 335i uses a MAP, no?

I wonder if there is a calculation that can be used to support both MAF and MAP metering. I know with Megasquirt, you can set Alpha-N to work with idle and low RPM, then have Megasquirt switch over to MAP when higher up in the RPM, especially to account for WOT, which Alpha-N sucks at doing. If you can find out the limit on the MAF and then switch over to MAP, do you think it could create a better tune and support more power?

Probably because he is referring to "most" as in a lot of the systems he has not built himself, yet if he builds it making a very reliable 400-500 rwhp is doable. :)

lol so every non-techno built system is a time bomb?

I hope thats not what he is refering to... I'm assuming he means tuning, but I'll wait for the man himself to answer.

I am still on a steep learning curve. I had no idea I could make it w/o a maf/hfm. But what Mike says might sway me to use a maf is I will get better results.

Does anyone else have experience with standalone and metering the air?
good luck with tuning obdII and mafs...;)

good luck with tuning obdII and mafs...;)

I'm not tuning anything. I'm leaving that to someone who knows what they're doing. But, I want to supply my tuner w/ what hardware he needs to net me a awesome tune.

I am still on a steep learning curve. I had no idea I could make it w/o a maf/hfm. But what Mike says might sway me to use a maf is I will get better results.

Does anyone else have experience with standalone and metering the air?

Here is some info for you:

Different Types of Metering

MAF: Mass Airflow Metering
Info: Found on most stock BMW setups. Actually meters amount of air going into the engine which can be very accurate. It can adapt to major changes with the engine, because it reads actual airflow. The only 2 downsides are the restriction it can create when wanting more power and the cost.

MAP: Manifold Absolute Pressure Metering
Info: Found on a lot of standalone setups. It meters the vacuum of an engine and uses a VE (Volumetric Efficiency) Table. Like the MAF, it uses speed density but instead of an actual value of air, it uses a calculation (Engine Mass Airflow Rate = RPM*MAP/absolute temperature). A downside would include having to retune the VE table when changing something with the engine. A second MAP sensor maybe added to adjust for the altitude (Mountain driving), which could also be considered a downside to a single MAP.

Alpha-N: Alpha-N Metering
Info: Alpha-N bases its metering off of the Throttle Position Sensor. It's pretty much metering based off of how open your Throttle plate is. Alpha-N provides great throttle response. Downsides include the lack of finding the effective WOT and it is very hard to tune. It's great for big cams and ITB (Individual throttle bodies). DOES NOT WORK WITH FORCED INDUCTION. Calculation: PW = reqFuel * VE(TPS,RPM)

Hybrid Alpha-N: Alpha-N + MAP Metering
Info: This uses both the TPS and MAP sensors to calculate for airflow. This helps anyone with big cams and ITB that also have FI applications. Instead of using the generic Alpha-N calculation, it uses (PW = reqFuel * MAP * VE(TPS,RPM)). The MAP value was tossed into the equation. The downside would be the same as the MAP metering, it is not dynamic to engine changes. A cool fact is that the Ferrari F40 uses this style metering.


Hopefully this helps some. ;) Not all types are supported by every standalone/EMS.

993 maf meters more than the 540 maf, correct? Rafa is using the 540/euro maf and making ~450...

I made 469rwhp on my 993tt hfm.

Mike what type of setups are you refering to here?

Those 2 statements are fairly contradictory.
Contradictory? Most of the setups here that make great peak power wouldn't do so reliably for 30 minutes of continuous track use. Mostly illustrating the difference in the needs of various builds. If you have a daily driver, or a drag car, running through the RPM range with a lot of the time spent at WOT for prolonged periods of time probably isn't a consideration.

Probably because he is referring to "most" as in a lot of the systems he has not built himself, yet if he builds it making a very reliable 400-500 rwhp is doable. :)
Not basing that on systems I have or haven't been involved with. Just an observation based on the components of the build and state of tune of most cars. Tuning actually not being the big thing... what is asked of the car power wise being the big one.
Example: A 2000 hp M50 as a drag car would be fine with the stock radiator. A 600 hp track car would be rather unhappy with a stock radiator.

The heat stress is just one example. How the engine and other components respond to prolonged stress makes a big difference. Many of the cars on here don't see lots of prolonged high stress. If its a daily driver, no problem. if its a drag car, no problem. if its ever tracked, thats when it becomes a problem.

If that is true, then by all means, I recommend JC staying with the Motronic and using the 993 MAF instead. The only downside to MAFs are the power restrictions. Even though you are a track whore and enjoy every bit of your setup, there are people out there that get boost happy and will want more. Also, you can not say that there are no reliable setups that use MAP metering out there. The 335i uses a MAP, no?

I wonder if there is a calculation that can be used to support both MAF and MAP metering. I know with Megasquirt, you can set Alpha-N to work with idle and low RPM, then have Megasquirt switch over to MAP when higher up in the RPM, especially to account for WOT, which Alpha-N sucks at doing. If you can find out the limit on the MAF and then switch over to MAP, do you think it could create a better tune and support more power?
If you have a MAF, why would you need to use anything else?

Alpha-N is great for an NA motor under all conditions ASSUMING its very well calibrated, and recalibrated often. Alpha-N is more commonly used on race cars since the constant recalibration bit is not an issue. Alpha-N has the added benefit on a race car of not needing any *fragile* sensors.


lol so every non-techno built system is a time bomb?

I hope thats not what he is refering to... I'm assuming he means tuning, but I'll wait for the man himself to answer.
Not at all. I was just saying that an *overbuilt* engine with a *low* goal doesn't mean its a waste. Building a strong motor that could do 1000 hp on the dyno or at the drag strip and running it at half that reliably isn't a waste either if its actually reliable.

My mention was to that most here build a motor for high power with intentions of high power. None seem to build a motor that is really strong to make a very reliable low power setup.

how do you use a map sensor when tuning stock OBDI ECU. im planning on boosting 20psi with my gt35r S50. what are the options too make it work.

thanks,
mat

how do you use a map sensor when tuning stock OBDI ECU. im planning on boosting 20psi with my gt35r S50. what are the options too make it work.

thanks,
mat

You don't. You use whatever size MAF you'd need for your power goals. If you want to use a MAP sensor, then you'd need to get a different ECU.

Not basing that on systems I have or haven't been involved with. Just an observation based on the components of the build and state of tune of most cars. Tuning actually not being the big thing... what is asked of the car power wise being the big one.
Example: A 2000 hp M50 as a drag car would be fine with the stock radiator. A 600 hp track car would be rather unhappy with a stock radiator.

The heat stress is just one example. How the engine and other components respond to prolonged stress makes a big difference. Many of the cars on here don't see lots of prolonged high stress. If its a daily driver, no problem. if its a drag car, no problem. if its ever tracked, thats when it becomes a problem.
I absolutely agree. If you have any extra advice for my car road racing, I would love it. I will be using a 56mm thick radiator core with custom aluminum end tanks and a custom overfill tank. I have two very efficient Spearco 650hp intercooler cores that are fused into one. I have two Naca ducts and will add louvres behind them on the hood. I plan to install an oil cooler before I road race the car. The car will have a fantastic fuel delivery setup. Anything else that will help to keep it cool, please let me know.
Not at all. I was just saying that an *overbuilt* engine with a *low* goal doesn't mean its a waste. Building a strong motor that could do 1000 hp on the dyno or at the drag strip and running it at half that reliably isn't a waste either if its actually reliable.

My mention was to that most here build a motor for high power with intentions of high power. None seem to build a motor that is really strong to make a very reliable low power setup.
I agree. I built my engine to make 1200whp with the right turbo and wild cams added. However I plan to run 700-800ish on the street and 500-600ish on the road course. Sound good? I want it to last.