I'm heading down to do the Driving Concepts Race School @ Willow Springs on 2/10-11. I've never been on this track before as it is near LA and I live in the SF Bay Area. Will I get everything out of the race school if I have spend time learning the track?

There is a track day @ Willow Springs that I could do, w/a group called Speed Ventures, 2 weeks before...but my wife won't be really thrilled if I'm away another night/day @ the track...

What do you think?

-CKKrause

Will I get everything out of the race school if I have spend time learning the track?

I wouldn't worry about not knowing the track. At some point in your future racing endeavors you'll end up on a track you don't know, and this is a great way to see how well you can learn a track.

WSIR isn't the toughest track to learn anyway. You may not be the fastest at the school, but that's not the point anyway. You'll be working on race craft and being in traffic is much better. By the end of the 2nd session on Saturday you'll know more of that track than a lot of people who've been going there for years. :D

See you there!

Hmmm, I'm going to say yes, you will still get everything out of it. The race school isn't so much about hot lapping, so knowing the ideal line is not necessarily a top priority. The school is more about rules, flags, passing on and off line (thus making the "driving school" line obsolete anyway), learning how to drive your own line (not the one of the car in front), race starts, etc.

Add into that the fact that Willow Springs is about the least technical track in California, I think you'll be fine. It is a fast track, though so stay within your limits and leave a cushion. It's a race school, not a race.

Some Willow Springs track tips, just for fun: Watch out for turn three, a medium speed uphill left hander. Too much speed combined with an abrupt move, and you'll spin. Same with turn 5, a downhill left hander where the entry involves a lot of braking and weight transfer. Easy to upset the car there. Don't change gears at the top of the crest for turn 6/7....short shift instead or you run a higher risk of a money shift or spin if you're not smooth while the car is unweighted. Turn 8 is deceptively fast, like flat out fast, and be ready for the entry to turn 9, which is a very fast corner where it's easy to run out of road on the exit. And as with all tracks....if you put 2 or 4 off, ride it out, don't try to bring it back on too fast.

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the comments!!!

-CKKrause

If your in the bay area, head just north and come to infineon raceway. You can do the Jim Russell racing courses, in their cars!!! Plus the car's that they let you run will be way faster then any street car, and you will learn car control so much better. Plus the instructor's are top notch!

http://www.jimrussellusa.com/

btw, I'm going to school there for the mechanical program, these cars are very well taken care of, and you do not have to worry about these car's failing on you while driving. Something that when going over 100mph can be a serious thing. But I would defenitly look into it, plus if you wreck, you'll still be able to drive home in your car and won't have to worry about it! but if you wreck you will be making lots more work for me haha.

I've done lots of laps @ Infineon and, while very technical, is big fun! I've never really considered a Russell school as I want to do the class in my own car... By the way, more power to you in the Mechanical school, I do all my own work on my track cars and find it very satisfying...If I could only drive as well as I wrench........

-CKKrause

My understanding is that you are doing this school in order to get your CR license, right?

If so, the BMW CCA CR school requirement is fulfilled by the Driving Concepts school and you would be allowed to complete the requirement for a CR license just by completing that school (as long as you don't do something dumb during the school, like crash).

Other racing schools can also fulfill the requirements, but you should check with the CR Registrar.

They may require other items above the minimums, including that your first race be at a track at which you have prior experience.

It's all outlined here: http://bmwccaclubracing.com/_forms/licensing_Policy.pdf

S. Lang-

Exactly why... I also anticipate doing some racing in NASA and they will accept this class as well. I thought about doing the NASA process,but to be honest it seems to be minimal... I'd prefer to build skills,(I need it!!!), and their race school seems to have been attended by most of the NorCal BMW racers......

Also, my first race should be at either Infineon or Laguna where I have lots of DE experience....

Thanks for our reply!

-CKKrause

The most important things to get from a race school are racing skills, like starts, passing, and getting used to running side-by-side through the turns, which places you off the ideal line. Anytime I race at a new track I do a practice day there, which (for SCCA anyway, I dont' know if that's as common for CCA weekends) are almost always held the day before a race weekend. That's when you can find the line and get to to lead-follow with some fellow racers to help each other learn.
Have fun!

CKKrause - what events are you planning on running this year? I look forward to racing with you. :)

Assuming I pass the race school and get my license, I hope to do either the Laguna 4/21-23 or 5/5-6 BMW club race as my 1st! If everything goes well, (a big if!!), I'll then do mostly NorCal BMW races and perhaps NASA GTS if I can. Depends whether I get the full addiction or not!!!!

-CKKrause

There's still also the SCCA drivers school, March 2nd to 4th at Thunderhill:

http://www.sfrscca.org/RoadRacing/drivers_school.htm

-FDj

FDJ-

Yes, I saw that, but I can't get 3 days.......

I took the Driving Concepts school at WS in Feb of 2005.

Here is my $.02-

It really helps if you have driven WS before, if you haven't you should watch some tape of the track (gofastvideo.com) and familiarize yourself with the proper race line. The instructors expect you to know how to drive the track - it is a racing school not just a track day or driving school.

Make sure you are ready to go. You probably won't have any time to check tire temps, pressures, lugnut torque, in car video, oil, clean windshield, etc. You will be rushed. So make sure you are ready to roll and check your stuff at lunchtime. Don't worry about having the perfect set-up as long as your car is safe and your tire pressures are in the right ballpark.

Get there early and get a comfortable seat near the front, it can be hard to hear with all the cars buzzing by.

Make sure you have all of your paperwork in order in advance.

When class is dismissed get in your car and to the grid ASAP. You won't have much time. Ironically you won't have any time to check the things that they tell you are important to check in the class.

Don't be the guy who spins it on the first lap of the first session, they ridiculed this poor guy who spun his M3 all weekend.

Don't lag on sending in your NASA license stuff after the school, you'll need to have a NASA medical form filled out by your doctor including a vision test.

Have fun!



I dug up my old post on Rennlist about it:


The Bad --- Even though you spend a bunch of time in the classroom talking about being prepared, you have almost NO time to make sure your car is ready (pressures, lugs, etc). We were typically let out of class 10 minutes before the flag dropped: just enough time to take a leak, walk to the car, and put on your helmet. I was late getting back to class couple of times, I think a few people complained because they gave us more time on the 2nd day. The instructors were really negative on the 1st day, basically saying that everyone sucked and no one had hit an apex all session. They eased up on the 2nd day and were more positive. If you did something stupid or spun they basically called you out in front of the class and made an example of you, including cracking a few jokes at your expense (thankfully I didn't loop it). Some of the instructors came across as very arrogant in the class, but were nice people one-on-one. I didn't do any ride alongs with the instructors, I wish I had because they are all good drivers and I think I could have learned a lot. There wasn't much personal instruction, basically the class was instructed and judged as a whole. I would have liked more personal instruction but it is a $500 class, not several thousand like Skippy or Bondurant. The book that came with the class contains good info but was missing a few pages here and there.

The Good--- I learned a lot in the class, I'm glad I took it. I think I am a better driver than I was before I took the class. A lot of the instruction was spent on where to look while driving and visual techniques that I found to be helpfull. The class taught you to be a better driver at any track and was not specific to WS. The driving exercizes, practice starts, and simulated races help you to get comfortable driving in traffic, passing (and getting passed) in turns, and driving off of the line. The time spent talking about getting prepared was good, although I'm pretty organized with checklists already. If you asked the instructors any questions they were helpfull. For $500 the price is right, and the class is worth taking.

Cory M-

Thanks for the feedback! I really wish I could get down there for a day beforehand, but it is 350 miles away and I'li already be gone from home several weekends about that time and my wife would not be thrilled!! So, the videos will have to do... One thing I've noticed is that it seems like a very fast course, but not extremely technical... I hope I can get up to speed reasonably quickly!

Thanks again!

-CKKrause

Firstly, thanks for the feedback on the race school. My collegues and I that assist Judy with the race schools love to hear what the graduates think.


It really helps if you have driven WS before, if you haven't you should watch some tape of the track (gofastvideo.com) and familiarize yourself with the proper race line. The instructors expect you to know how to drive the track - it is a racing school not just a track day or driving school.

Make sure you are ready to go. You probably won't have any time to check tire temps, pressures, lugnut torque, in car video, oil, clean windshield, etc. You will be rushed. So make sure you are ready to roll and check your stuff at lunchtime. Don't worry about having the perfect set-up as long as your car is safe and your tire pressures are in the right ballpark.

Get there early and get a comfortable seat near the front, it can be hard to hear with all the cars buzzing by.

Make sure you have all of your paperwork in order in advance.

When class is dismissed get in your car and to the grid ASAP. You won't have much time. Ironically you won't have any time to check the things that they tell you are important to check in the class.

All quite true. Just like a 'real' race weekend.

Don't be the guy who spins it on the first lap of the first session, they ridiculed this poor guy who spun his M3 all weekend.

Also true. But the ridicule (perhaps too strong a term) is to illustrate poor mental/vehicle preparation. First session of the day (a practice session on a real race weekend) is not the time to be setting a track record.


The Bad --- Even though you spend a bunch of time in the classroom talking about being prepared, you have almost NO time to make sure your car is ready (pressures, lugs, etc). We were typically let out of class 10 minutes before the flag dropped: just enough time to take a leak, walk to the car, and put on your helmet. I was late getting back to class couple of times, I think a few people complained because they gave us more time on the 2nd day.

If your car is adequately prepared prior to the weekend, then 10 minutes is plenty to check the tire pressures, fuel, oil etc. Some leeway is given after a session to attend to immediate issues (mechanical failure, damage etc), but again this is an education event, not a social one. There is a lot of information to impart (the racecraft side of racing) not covered in other race schools.

The instructors were really negative on the 1st day, basically saying that everyone sucked and no one had hit an apex all session. They eased up on the 2nd day and were more positive. If you did something stupid or spun they basically called you out in front of the class and made an example of you, including cracking a few jokes at your expense (thankfully I didn't loop it). Some of the instructors came across as very arrogant in the class, but were nice people one-on-one. I didn't do any ride alongs with the instructors, I wish I had because they are all good drivers and I think I could have learned a lot. There wasn't much personal instruction, basically the class was instructed and judged as a whole. I would have liked more personal instruction but it is a $500 class, not several thousand like Skippy or Bondurant. The book that came with the class contains good info but was missing a few pages here and there.

We taylor our feedback based upon the general behavior of the group. Perhaps your experience was based upon a few individual who were not ready for the class. It happens, and it does affect the group as a whole. Our first responsibility to to keep all the students *safe*. Racing at best is competitive, at worst is combative. We try to present a range of driving styles and attitudes which represent some of what *we* had seen at races.

The Good--- I learned a lot in the class, I'm glad I took it. I think I am a better driver than I was before I took the class. A lot of the instruction was spent on where to look while driving and visual techniques that I found to be helpfull. The class taught you to be a better driver at any track and was not specific to WS. The driving exercizes, practice starts, and simulated races help you to get comfortable driving in traffic, passing (and getting passed) in turns, and driving off of the line. The time spent talking about getting prepared was good, although I'm pretty organized with checklists already. If you asked the instructors any questions they were helpfull. For $500 the price is right, and the class is worth taking.

Thanx again.