I see from my service records why I last paid so much for my oil change- synthetic. How often do you change your oil in this case?

I usually go 3000 miles on regular crude. I think I have heard that synthetics allow a far less infrequent service.

yeah, i wouldn't mind help with this either... i just got the car, and haven't had to change the oil yet. previous owner told me he used synthetic, and bmw told him not to worry about changing the oil until the light came on. and then when the light comes on, change it.

i found this odd, but it was straight from the dealership.

Do some research. BMW recommends ONLY synthetic oil, that has the BMW LL-01 rating. There are only three that you are likely to find, and they all have BMW LL-01 printed in the labels. BMW brand oil from your dealer, Mobil-1 0w40, Castrol European formula Synthetic 0w30 (both avail at AutoZone & other AP stores. Look on the labels for the BMW LL-01 rating.

Change interval - BMW recommends 15,000 miles. That's too long. I'd say 7,500 or if a lot of stop and go maybe 5,000.

Change interval - BMW recommends 15,000 miles. That's too long. I'd say 7,500 or if a lot of stop and go maybe 5,000.

Exactly.
The interval between oil services should vary from car to car.
I live in a suburban L.A. area with heavily congested traffic. I must
hit the brake few hundred times on one way commute every
morning. So, I change my oil at every 4000 miles. John Doe,
who lives in an area where his next door neighbor is 5 miles
down the road and he can get to his work 30 miles away
in 20 minutes, may change at every 7k miles. But I, too, think
15k interval is somewhat unhealthy for your cars.

Personally I do 7-8000 on syn.

synthetic, every 5000 miles or six months, whichever comes first...

I did 7500 miles and go in Friday for a change. Just wanted to check. Although I have a good shop that I trust, I still want to be an informed driver.

I take my Mobile 1 and filter to Jiffy Lube, and they knock it out for 30 bucks.

I take my Mobile 1 and filter to Jiffy Lube, and they knock it out for 30 bucks.

Give me the same deal and I'll glady change your oil and filter. :cool

Man, it wouldn't be the same deal if he'd have to drive 1,200 miles (about 18 hours 12 mins without a shut-eye) just to get his freakin' synthetic oil changed. That would be the most expensive oil change ever in automotive history!

psst..hey imaginis, i'll do it for $20.00 ...and a 6 pack.

If you just want to "know when to change your oil". do it when the light comes on. BMW says so, and the dealer says so and they make a good point about it too. But, if you are like me, and are sensitive about it or drive hard rather, I change it every 4-5, maybe 6 if I have been easy on it. Or a year, whichever comes first, but definately every year. I think the dealer said ~10,000miles but the computer monitors driving habits and adjust for oil life and inspections.

If you just want to "know when to change your oil". do it when the light comes on. BMW says so, and the dealer says so and they make a good point about it too. But, if you are like me, and are sensitive about it or drive hard rather, I change it every 4-5, maybe 6 if I have been easy on it. Or a year, whichever comes first, but definately every year. I think the dealer said ~10,000miles but the computer monitors driving habits and adjust for oil life and inspections.
All the computer monitors is how much gas has been burned since the last oil change. If you plan on keeping your car longer than the BMW warranty period (that is all they care about), then change your oil at least twice as often as BMW's ridiculous recommendation. Never use any oil that is not a synthetic with the BMW LL-01 rating on the label. And change the "lifetime" fluids at about 60,000. BMW definition of lifetime is 100,000 miles. So, if that is the lifetime you want your car to last, then fine, follow the BMW schedule.

If you just want to "know when to change your oil". do it when the light comes on. BMW says so, and the dealer says so and they make a good point about it too.
Most of the oil companies say it is okay too. So do most of the people who have done the extensive research where they test the number of particles in the oil over time. They've found that 12k-15k miles is no big deal.

every 8000 miles for me, I only drive 10K a year

I use mobil 1 10w30. I change the oil filter a 6000. I change all the oil at 12,000.

Blackstone labs did an oil analysis. look in the following thread for the results.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=650499

Just think logically about this for a second. If the oil didn't really last that long, wouldn't the oil company tell you that so they could sell you more oil? Duh. If you're really worried about it, you can feel totally safe by doing it ever 5k. Just make sure you're always changing the filter. Filters breaking down is the real reason for changing oil these days. The filtering element inside breaks down and will eventually find it's way out of the filter and into your engine. The oil will last. You could also drive 5k, send a sample to blackstone for analysis, and then extend your oil change intervals until blackstone tells you the lubricant properties of the oil have broken down slightly. Then you know exactly how long you can go. Case closed.

i guess everyone is putting in their 2 cents, so heres mine.

15,000 miles is WAY too long, synthetic or not. Most I would go would be 7500 and those would be highway miles.

I dont think that the oil actually is breaking down, but rather picking up carbon and other particles that are too small for the oil filter to screen out. I remember a time when the car companies recommended changing the oil and not the filter every other time.

you guys not changing your own oil are throwing money down the toilet, heck its not that expensive and you barely have to get under the car but for 3 mins to let the old oil out. BMW makes it so easy to change the filter, its right there under the hood.

anyways thats my 2 cents...

james

I use the Castrol Syntec 5w30. I usually change around 7000. If you change out the synthetic at 3000 you're just wasting your money as it lasts a lot longer than that. Unless of course you put your car through some heavy punishment like tracking it or some such.

For a car using regular dino oil I always change at or before 3000.

Thanks for all of the input. I am leaning toward doing my own since the guy is now up to $85!!! for the change. What kind of filters are you using? Which ones are worth extra money?

Doing it myself will save me more than the cost of the change alone because they always find something else that they convince me to do.

i use 5W40 full synthetic on my 540I and change it every 3K miles

Synthetic does actually breakdown but it takes longer than conventional oils. That's the main reason it's changed.

That's not my opinion. You can read all about it by going to the site of Redline, Royal Purple, Valvoline, etc. Also some of the better magazines like Hot Rod and Popular Hot Rodding occasionally run articles on the what and whys of oils.

Thanks for all of the input. I am leaning toward doing my own since the guy is now up to $85!!! for the change. What kind of filters are you using? Which ones are worth extra money?

Doing it myself will save me more than the cost of the change alone because they always find something else that they convince me to do.

A Roundel article said that the OEM filters are the best, better than the Frams and all the other names. It's also possible to buy a permanent filter and housing that I've read are superior to all the throw-aways. You have to clean them periodically. Permanent means the filter media is re-used.

How often do you change your oil in this case?


I'd say about 7.5k miles should be good under most conditions. If you want to be sure that you're not overextending it or if you could go longer than that, do a UOA (used oil analysis).

I take my Mobile 1 and filter to Jiffy Lube, and they knock it out for 30 bucks.

As for JiffyLube, I would NEVER EVER take my car to those grease monkeys. Most of the time they say the do things and actually don't do them. Can you be sure that they actually install that filter that you give them? Can you be sure that they actually pour that M1 oil into your engine and not someone else's? I guess if you stand there and watch their every move, you can, but they hate that.

I'm planning to do my own oil changes using an extractor pump, FYI.

tough to get all the oil out using one of those...

WOW,
No shortage of opinions in this thread. From those who really believe BMW's 15,000 miles between oil changes is just dandy w/ synthetic, to some who even still use dyno oil, or some non-BMW rated synthetics, all the way to fully rated synthetic oil every 3000 miles. Time will tell who has regrets about which oil they used, and how often they changed it.

My choice? Use only oil recommended and rated by BMW and change it twice as often as they recommend. But, it's your car & your choice.

5k, just don't let the oil get dark before your next oil change if before 5k

Just think logically about this for a second. If the oil didn't really last that long, wouldn't the oil company tell you that so they could sell you more oil? Duh. If you're really worried about it, you can feel totally safe by doing it ever 5k. Just make sure you're always changing the filter. Filters breaking down is the real reason for changing oil these days. The filtering element inside breaks down and will eventually find it's way out of the filter and into your engine. The oil will last. You could also drive 5k, send a sample to blackstone for analysis, and then extend your oil change intervals until blackstone tells you the lubricant properties of the oil have broken down slightly. Then you know exactly how long you can go. Case closed.

Oil changes are free for the first three years you buy your new BMW. Therefore they would be giving away twice as much free oil and labor if they told you to do it at 7500 miles rather than 15,000 miles. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tough to get all the oil out using one of those...
Not true at all. You pull out exactly as much as you would if you let it drain from the bottom. That is what all the Mercedes Benz dealers are using nowadays to service all their cars, too. They no longer do it from the bottom.

Just think logically about this for a second. If the oil didn't really last that long, wouldn't the oil company tell you that so they could sell you more oil? Duh.
They're trying to differentiate synthetic from mineral by showing that you can go much longer on synthetic. If the oil company told you that you had to change the synthetic as often as mineral oil, nobody would pay extra $$$ for the synthetic.

Also, even though oil companies tell you that you can go 15-20k miles on synthetic, they also tell you to comply with your vehicle maintenance recommendations because they won't take responsibility if the dealer denies you warranty because you weren't changing the oil on time.

And what other poster mentioned about long change intervals to reduce BMW's costs associated with providing free maintenance is true, too. Audi did the same thing. They used to recommend 5K mile OCI. When they started offering free maint, they went to 10K mile OCI. And if I'm not mistaken, in Europe BMW recommends changing oil every 15k km, which is about 9k miles.

Well I can tell you one thing, a good used engine for a 97-03 540i will cost you about 3-4+ thousand dollars.. and thats not installed or shipped.

thats enough for me to change it every 5,000 miles... costs about 40 bucks to DIY.. not a big deal for me, takes less then 10 mins.

Not true at all. You pull out exactly as much as you would if you let it drain from the bottom. That is what all the Mercedes Benz dealers are using nowadays to service all their cars, too. They no longer do it from the bottom.
My buddy has a 2002 740 that he got to replace his 97 528. He has spent time at the shop and said he has seen first hand that his dealer is using the siphon as well. He suggested I buy one and sent me a photo of what he called the "King of all siphons" which you can see at skymall.com and add the following since the forum does not allow me to add links shopping/detail.htm?pid=102152387&c

I am sure someone here can find it for less money than SkyMall, the over-priced in-flight shopping experience.

He wants to know if anyone on the board knows if the oil service light on the 740 can be reset at home like we can do with a paperclip on the E39.

i don't get the paperclip thing, for crying out loud a reset tool is not that much money...

[QUOTE=quattro PETE;

Also, even though oil companies tell you that you can go 15-20k miles on synthetic, they also tell you to comply with your vehicle maintenance recommendations because they won't take responsibility if the dealer denies you warranty because you weren't changing the oil on time.[QUOTE]


The liability issue again comes to the foreground.

i guess everyone is putting in their 2 cents, so heres mine.

15,000 miles is WAY too long, synthetic or not.
james

What scientific facts or expertise are you using to back up that factual statement of yours?





As for JiffyLube, I would NEVER EVER take my car to those grease monkeys. Most of the time they say the do things and actually don't do them. Can you be sure that they actually install that filter that you give them? Can you be sure that they actually pour that M1 oil into your engine and not someone else's? I guess if you stand there and watch their every move, you can, but they hate that.

I'm planning to do my own oil changes using an extractor pump, FYI.

I agree, taking your car to any quicklube oil change station is like sitting on a time bomb. You just never know when your luck will run out. I've seen so many stupid $1000 mistakes made by those places I could open my own shop with the motto, "we'll fix your quicklube stations mistakes!"

Oil changes are free for the first three years you buy your new BMW. Therefore they would be giving away twice as much free oil and labor if they told you to do it at 7500 miles rather than 15,000 miles. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you really think the oil company gives a crap about the manufacturers? If they could sell more oil, they would. A Manufacturer is just another client to them. They have nothing to prove to any of the car makers.

They're trying to differentiate synthetic from mineral by showing that you can go much longer on synthetic. If the oil company told you that you had to change the synthetic as often as mineral oil, nobody would pay extra $$$ for the synthetic.

Yes, they are trying to differentiate synthetics because they are different form mineral oils. It's quite obvious just by reading these threads on here how many people have no understanding of what they are talking about. And this is a car forum!! Can you imagine what a soccer mom thinks synthetic oil is and what it's advantages are? If there's extra value associated with a product, people will buy it. Especially if it's required by the manufacturer. Synthetics are obviuosly better than conventional oils, which means people will pay more for it. It doesn't matter if it last longer or not, they will still buy it.

He suggested I buy one and sent me a photo of what he called the "King of all siphons" which you can see at skymall.com and add the following since the forum does not allow me to add links shopping/detail.htm?pid=102152387&c

I am sure someone here can find it for less money than SkyMall, the over-priced in-flight shopping experience.

Not sure how much I paid for mine, but you can get it here for $45:
http://www.tooltopia.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=9892

[QUOTE=It's quite obvious just by reading these threads on here how many people have no understanding of what they are talking about. And this is a car forum!! QUOTE]

It is a sad state of affairs, I agree.

On the other hand it's possible to enjoy and appreciate a BMW w/o knowing a damn thing about how it works or what oil should be used and why. And if its those who are asking its a good thing they are here trying to learn.

Not sure how much I paid for mine, but you can get it here for $45:
http://www.tooltopia.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=9892

I've read somewhere that this thing should be avoided since gravity is better for removing sludge and/or heavy metallic particles out of the engine. Makes sense.

I've read somewhere that this thing should be avoided since gravity is better for removing sludge and/or heavy metallic particles out of the engine. Makes sense.

That's not particularly true. Most metallic particles and some sludge should be trapped in the filter, not somewhere else in the engine. There shouldn't really be any sledge in the engine if your treat it right anyways. I've seen heads taken off 20 year old cars with 300k on them and almost no sledge buildup inside. Same goes for metallic particles. If you protect your engine properly, there's should be a significant enough buildup to do any damage. Other than maybe the first 500 miles of an engines life (and even that's a contraversy anymore with machine tolerances being what they are), there should be no reason for metal shavings inside the motor.

I've always used a topsucker to change the oil in my 540 and my Dad has used it for many years in his Mercedes cars, which is indeed how the dealerships do it as well. Not only is it much easier, it gets the job done just the same as long as the engine is designed for it. Just for kicks the first time I did it to my 540 I undid the oil drain plug to see if anything would come out. A drip or two from the plug and that was it. Went back on and hasn't come off since. I change mine every 5k - my thoughts are that it isn't very expensive and it isn't very hard, and there isn't really a downside. Even if it could go 10 or 15 thousand miles, why take the chance?

My buddy is about to send a sample of 10w30 amsoil synthetic that he ran for 10k miles. He drives very aggressively (pause for new x5 commercial on tv.....................sorry) and last time around he went 8500 miles without any breakdown present after analysis. We're going to prove for ourselves how long it can really go. So far, everything amsoil has told us has been 100% accurate. As of now, we have no reason to believe it may actually make it to 15k. We're just gradually increasing the intervals b/t changes until we see the slightest hint of breakdown.

waaay too much stuff to read through in this post but here is some info from a guy who changes bmw oil every day(well, except weekends... usually). i've noticed that when i drain oil from a bimmer with close to 8k or more on it, once the oil cools down and i pour it into the disposal, it looks and has the consistency of sludge! e39's are SIA3 cars and use only fuel consumption to calculate service intervals. they aren't like the new cars which are CBS(condition based service), and have an actual sensor which monitors oil life. comes to this.. oil is cheap, new engines are expensive.

i used to believe that i could out think the engineers that designed our cars and believed that fancy fluids like amsoil, redline, rp etc were better than the oem stuff. then i read up on an issue with redline d4atf swelling a rubber bushing in a getrag tranny causing a problem that a revert to the oem fluid cannot cure, it a supra trans but is very similar to the one in the 540's. apparently redline uses the maximum amount allowable of some sort of adative wich makes seals swell, helps stop leaking in some components but apparently can be detremential in others. suffice to say that a week later all the fluids in the car are now oem bmw fluids. i was actually quite suprised to see that the castrol dextron 3 atf fluid(the recommended fluid) in the tranny shifts smoother than the rp, or the redline mtl. you guys do what you will with your own cars, this is only my opinion and what i feel is best for mine.

This is in response to several of the posts above...

Before conventional oils, single weight oils allowed contaminants to settle out.

New (at the time but conventional to us now) multi weight oils changed that. They were called detergent oils because they were designed to keep the contaminents in suspension so they would come out with the oil. So conv multi wt oil was designed to be changed when the engine was at operating temp and immediately after the oil had been flowing.

Synthetics are the same. They should be changed hot and immediately after the engine has been running so that the max amount of contaminents, that the filter doesn't catch, are in suspension.

There is more to it all but these are the basic concepts. Bottom line, change your oil hot and right after it has been running. Yes some oil will still be in the engine but the majority of it will have drained down in 5 to 10 min. Anything left is very minor and not a problem at all if changes are regular and the oil grade is correct.

[QUOTE=nightkrawler;i used to believe that i could out think the engineers that designed our cars and believed that fancy fluids like amsoil, redline, rp etc were better than the oem stuff. i was actually quite suprised to see that the castrol dextron 3 atf fluid(the recommended fluid) in the tranny shifts smoother than the rp, or the redline mtl. you guys do what you will with your own cars, this is only my opinion and what i feel is best for mine.[/QUOTE]

Amazing that the engineers that work on designing your car as a fulltime job actually do know what they are doing.

Good post.

Amazing that the engineers that work on designing your car as a fulltime job actually do know what they are doing.


Unfortunately, the company is not just comprised of engineers. By the time Marketing and Finance dept. gets done with them, you end up having things like a "lifetime" tranny fluid in your car. :D

Unfortunately, the company is not just comprised of engineers. By the time Marketing and Finance dept. gets done with them, you end up having things like a "lifetime" tranny fluid in your car. :D

Yes, so true and its a damn shame.

I get my filters at the dealer.

On my 528iT, engine oil filter ever 5K miles, engine oil and filter change every 10 K. Mobil 1 5-30 or BMW 5-30. I once had a neighbor, an aircraft mechanic, that had a Vette and would only change his oil filter and top off the syn oil and said he would NEVER change his syn oil. He said it's used on jet engines under 10x sever conditions as it is in a car. Just keep it clean was his motto.
On lifetime trans oil and filter, I do it ever 50K with the Texaco/ BMW recommended oil.
How ofter shoud we chane brake fluid? only once so far for me at ~50K

On my 528iT, engine oil filter ever 5K miles, engine oil and filter change every 10 K. Mobil 1 5-30 or BMW 5-30. I once had a neighbor, an aircraft mechanic, that had a Vette and would only change his oil filter and top off the syn oil and said he would NEVER change his syn oil. He said it's used on jet engines under 10x sever conditions as it is in a car. Just keep it clean was his motto.
On lifetime trans oil and filter, I do it ever 50K with the Texaco/ BMW recommended oil.
How ofter shoud we chane brake fluid? only once so far for me at ~50K

Aircraft and rockets were using synthetics way before cars. That's what synthetics were invented for. They were a reseach answer to their service requirements.

But the synthetics used in aircraft are way better, and more expensive, than what is sold in auto stores. Plus the conditions of an auto engine contaminate the oil much more than what occurs in jet engines.

The two are different applications with the only thing in common is the word synthetic. The aircraft stuff would not work well in a 4 cycle auto engine and vice verse.

Your neighbor was well intending but mis-informed.

Brake fluid is to be replaced every 2 years, as per the owner's manual.

As for the jet engines, I believe that they change oil about every 300 hours or thereabout.

How is he going to keep it clean if he keeps using the same dirty oil? With time, the oil oxidizes and the additive/detergent package in the oil gets depleted (that's what TBN measures in a typical used oil analysis, by the way) and the oil loses its capabilities to decompose/suspend dirt and excessive wear begins to occur. The oil also begins to thicken until it eventually turns into sludge. Now, if his vette engine burns so much oil that he has to put in a new quart every 1k miles, then it's another story... :)

I use the new NASA oil. It's 45 bucks a quart, and I last changed my oil in 2004. It's really good stuff.

Just kidding.

Do some research. BMW recommends ONLY synthetic oil, that has the BMW LL-01 rating. There are only three that you are likely to find, and they all have BMW LL-01 printed in the labels. BMW brand oil from your dealer, Mobil-1 0w40, Castrol European formula Synthetic 0w30 (both avail at AutoZone & other AP stores. Look on the labels for the BMW LL-01 rating.

Bill-

Coincidentally, I had sent an e-mail to BMW NA just last week, asking them if there were any updates to the recommended oils that are printed in the owner's manual. Here's their reply:

Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC regarding oil for
your 2003 BMW 540i. We appreciate your enthusiasm for our vehicles and
are happy to answer your question.

BMW recommends BMW High Performance Synthetic engine oil, Castrol
Synthetic, Mobil 1 Synthetic, and Valvoline High Performance Synthetic. The
engine oil you choose should have a weight of SAE 5W-30.


Not trying to be nit-picky...just thought you might want to know this while we were on the subject. :thumbup:

As for JiffyLube, I would NEVER EVER take my car to those grease monkeys. Most of the time they say the do things and actually don't do them.

Not to mention they put your drain plug back on with a freaking air wrench set at 120 ft. lbs....

^or not at all.....

Bill-

Coincidentally, I had sent an e-mail to BMW NA just last week, asking them if there were any updates to the recommended oils that are printed in the owner's manual. Here's their reply:



Not trying to be nit-picky...just thought you might want to know this while we were on the subject. :thumbup:

I guess BMWNA can't make up their minds. They rate oil as BMW LL01 compliant, tell you to use LL01, then recommend oils that are not rated as LL01. Thanks for the info.

I'm no chemical engineer but IMO synthetic oil gets fouled up as quickly as dino oil. Therefore I do a complete synthetic change in the M5 every 3-4 months regardless of mileage (not that many).
I have a high performance powerboat too. I do a synthetic change 4-5 times a summer. And I always put her away for the winter with a fresh oil change.

Combined city and somewhat highway traffic and using BMW oil, change about 5000 or 6000.

I'd suggest read the articles on these websites and use your graymatter and decide yourself how long the interval should be that you're most comfortable with:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/synthetic_vs_conventional_oil/

http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-change-and-filters.com/amsoil_articles/mineral-petrolium-oil-compared-to-synthetic/