Well when the ground is dry i consider it hunting season in the 944. The car had been sitting for a little while and I decided I would take it out today. So I took it to work, the whole time looking for a car to go at it with. Coming home, i was getting on the busy off ramp when a new G35 coupe gets on my ass. He rides my bumper all the way up the ramp and when we get off he guns it by me and cuts me off. I was waiting for a little bit of space, so i just followed his bumper until he turned onto an open street(i went a little out of my way for this race). He turns the corner and steps on it, i turn the corner and do the same. My tires just begin to spin in 1st. It was cold and i had zero grip, after I put it in 2nd my car stopped going side to side and I took off. I pulled past him very hard in 2nd, by the time I hit about 100 in 3rd I had pulled countless cars on him. All in all i had a good time. I had been looking for a G35 coupe or 350Z to run but hadnt been able to find one for a while. I slowed down to talk to the guy, but he would slow down even more so he couldnt talk to me. I hate that!!! Just wanted to compliment him on a sweet looking car. But it felt damn good to get a kill. Its too bad its cold out and I cant get traction out!! Waiting for the damn summer to come around and more modding to start!

You beat a G35 coupe in a 944 non-turbo?

I had a 944 and am surprised to hear that, although, 3rd gear in that car just heaven...

PS if you have a 951 then nevermind...

Count, his 944 is not only a Turbo, but a seriously modded Turbo...

Nice kill!

Originally posted by SilverStreak
Count, his 944 is not only a Turbo, but a seriously modded Turbo...

Nice kill!

Aye - I dont think he's had it on a dyno yet, but if memory serves regarding his aftermarket goodies, comparable cars are making around 345 RWHP/TQ

Ditto kill, I havent even seen one of those around here yet (no Z's either)... I live in SUV land. :bawl

(Did see one badass 930 yesterday though... (and out on the salted roads!!! Who would DO such a thing!?!?) :confused:

Damn Dinan -- we need to run. I was in Chicago this past summer. I think you will have me -- plus, I can bug you about all of the questions I have re: 944 S turbo's. BTW- thanks for all of your suggetions.

One quick question though...I thought ALL 944 "S" models were "turbo's" and all "turbo 944's" were "S" models. Are these statements not true? It sounded like that you could have a "944" turbo model....but it would not be an "S" model. What is the "S" stand for then....upgraded suspension, etc...

I did a 200 mile search yesterday , no 88-89 944 turbo's...how sad.

Only the 88-89 turbos are S models with 247hp stock.

944s is just a 2.5 liter with a 16 valve head. 188hp stock.

944s2 is a 3.0 liter with a 16 valve head. 208hp stock.

944 turbo (aka 951) is a 2.5 liter with an 8 valve head and a turbo and 217hp stock.

"All" 944 S variants have the turbo look body with the much better looking front bumper, not the big black rubber things.

All S models are lowered, have better wheels, brakes, suspensions compared to non S models.

Thanks count--

So, if the 944 turbo is the 2.5 Liter engine -- is this a similar platform that the STi is built on achieving 300 crank hp??? So, a 944 turbo is called a 951 then?

Why exactly again is the years 1988-1989 the most preferable? Dinan was mentioning something about suspension and tuneability of the engine for those years.

Any tranny or rust problems?

Hey guys, just for clarifications, I have an 89 944 Turbo S, with a lot of mods. I have not put it on the dyno yet, but we are guessing it is right abotu around 345RWHP, like sttutgart said. It wasnt a fair race for the G35, but it was a fun run. Car is also gutted quite a bit! So it weighs very little!:devillook

Roughly, a 944 engine is half of a 928 engine.

In Porsche world, the number is the drawing board number. Design number 944 is a 944. Design number 951 is a turbo version of the 944. And the 968 is an even later design.

Porsche uses names now. Cayenne and Boxster cuz they ran out of 9 numbers!

The 1988 and 89 Turbo S models are pretty much race cars. Porsche quit making them because stock they were about as fast as a 911. With mods, they blew the 911 away and were much easier to drive. At Porsche, the 911 is everything and cannot perform worse than the lower models.

Galvinized body so rust is not typically a problem with these cars.

Isn't the Subaru based on a boxer engine? ie Horizontally opposed pistons like a 911 or a beetle?

The first 2 liter WRX here for sure was, not sure if the new 2.5 liter STi is a boxer or inline 4.

It would be nothing like the 944 engines other than both having great power from small displacement.

The 944 engines have Mitsubishi counter balancing! The 3 liter 968 was a pioneer in variable valve timing (varios) which is pretty much what vanos is for BMW.

Sube did have an H-4 but I think they've changed to a 6 and am not sure on the new config.

problem with an "H" engine is width, it's gotta be tough to get any kind of Rod/Stroke Ratio.

G35, that sounds very Nissan... am I close, what are the specs?

G35- same platform and engine as the Nissan 350Z. Except the G35 Coupe rides on a slightly larger wheelbase like the G35 Sedan.

Where the 350Z makes 287 hp, the G35 Coupe makes an even 280 hp (the Sedan only 260 hp).

The 350Z is a 2 seater hatchback, the G35 Coupe has a back seat and a trunk, etc...

Oh ya, my buddy was working @ a Nissan Stealership... He seems to think that's the fastest car in the world...lol

He must think Mustang GT's are too, then... :laugh

All Subs have Boxer engines. That is one of their claim to fames. A while back Sub ran an ad extorting the virtues of boxer engine, how the boxer engine is something Porsche uses too and the Sub competition doesn't.

Even the six in the Sub is a boxer. (Their claim lower center of gravity, etc)

All Subaru Imprezas have flat 4s (horizontally opposed engines). The WRXs are turbo'd.

Porsche has always used three number model designations for their cars - the Boxster, for example is a Type 986, the Cayanne is the Type 999, and the new 911 will be Type 997 (2004 MY I believe)

The "upgraded" versions of the standard cars are as follows - Standard, S, Turbo, Turbo S. For example, 944 (944), 944S (944S), 951 (944 Turbo), 951S (944 Turbo S).

944's and 951's are night and day - they make look similar, but almost everything is changed - suspension, brakes, etc. The difference between a 951, my car, and a 951S, Dinan's car, is even more agressive suspension and brakes, tweaked engine mamagement, and a larger blower. The 86-88 951 are 217 HP 243 TQ stock, where as the 88 951S and 89-91 (90-91 Euro only) are 247 HP 263 TQ (think thats the right TQ number).

The displacement may be half of the 928 engine, but there is little similarity thereafter.

Stock, the 951's run about 12 PSI - most people, simply by chipping the car, will run 15-16 PSI, and after that, boost control can allow up to 18 PSI, but thats pretty much the limit of the stock blower. After 18 PSI and about 5500 RPM boost falls off to about 13 PSI until redline.

The reason 951's are so easy to get reliable HP out of, in the opinion of many, is because Porsche de-tuned them for two reasons - emissions, and the 911. 0-60, same year 911's and 951 are about even 0-60, at which point the 951 will walk away. In addition, the front engine, rear transmission P-cars are far more forgiving at the limit than the 911's.

They are kinda like the German version of a "Supra Junior." They take VERY well to mods and will run forever on high output setups... but you will never see a 1,000HP 951. At the end of the day, there is no replacement for displacement and 2.5L isnt alot to work with.

Ok... back to work.
:D

Originally posted by zenon
Oh ya, my buddy was working @ a Nissan Stealership... He seems to think that's the fastest car in the world...lol

Originally posted by SilverStreak
He must think Mustang GT's are too, then... :laugh

Y'all jest, but I've heard SOOO many comments from owners of these cars that indicate that these owners REALLY DO think their car is the fastest, best-handling, only-worthy car out there.

What is it with the owners of these? :dunno Now, let me add that I'm not saying ALL owners of said vehicles think this way, because I know there are some level-headed ones out there. However, this attitude seems to be disproportionately prevelant with them.

I don't get it.

Go read my thread in OT that compares the 350Z to the new Neon SRT-4, identical performance specs in all categories, acceleration, handling, braking, etc... :laugh

By the way, what do the 350Z guys say about that?

Not much, just the usual "Yeah, but it's not a Z, man..." But when they start talking about how well their car performs, and stand on that alone as their bragging rights, it's real easy to being them bakc to Earth with comparisons like the Mustang GT, Neon SRT-4, WRX, etc....

Wow, I'm surprised they even heed those comparos. I kinda figured they'd say something about how the magazine numbers are always off and blah blah blah blah blah...

Oh they do, and when they compare price it's always to the base 350Z for like $27K, which no one wants to own, it doesn't even have an LSD, etc...

Stuttgart951, DINAN3XI; I've been thinking about picking up a 951 in the future as a project car and the info on them in this thread has made me hungry for more details.

Can you point me towards some FAQs or sites with good 951 info? I'm looking for specfic details on ECU and boost controller upgrades and also other DIY upkeep on these cars.

In addition, would you guys care to comment on the handling compared to say... an E36 M3? I'm guessing the 951 would be quite a bit stiffer and flatter in a turn than an E36 M3, but is trickier at the limit. The rear suspension is semi-trailing arm, right?

I'd love to drive one and see for myself, but a 944 is a fairly rare car nowadays... and turbos even moreso.


-Apex

Man I love 951s!!!!

My cousin purchased his about 8 months ago. It's an 86 Turbo. He has Autothority chips, no cats, intake, MAF, BOV, K27/6 and a couple other mods.

There has never been a car that has given him a decent challenge. We raped a Viper RT/10 and I was there first hand to see it happen!! I mean car lengths, many of them!

DO NOT RACE 944s, unless they are non-turbo of course:)

nice kill man..........

LateApex:

First - E36 M3/951 comparision (Both Dinan and I have commented on this on numerous occassions) - Ill summarize it here - try a search - lots of info on Bimmerforums regarding this.

Acceleration: 951 hands down
Brakes: 951
Suspension: 951
Modability: 951
Interior: M3
Comfort: M3
Daily drivability: M3
Trans/gearing: 951
Road feel: 951
Steering feel: 951
Pedal feel: 951
Car/driver comm.: 951
Road course: 951
Autocross: M3 (lag is a bitch)
Drag strip: M3 (explained below)
Reliability: Close one...
Maintenance: M3
Chicks dig it factor: Close again. :cool:
Smile factor: 951 by far
Winter driving: M3

In a nutshell - everything the M3 does well on the track, the 951 will do better, and everything the 951 does well on the street, the M3 will do better.

The charectar of each car is remarkably different considering they are both classified as sports cars. At the end of the day, the E36 M3 is a great daily driver - comfortable, smooth, quiet, quick, and fun to boot. The 951 is a race car by comparision - the cars are so different, that its hard to even place them in the same light. If you do wish to compare however - The 951 is much harsher, requires much more physical effort to drive, is less refined, loud, and very... very fast. As a result, driver-car communication is excellent, the car is very predictable at the limit, but at the same time, its not "easy" to drive fast.

The major difference that I first noticed was that "at the limit feel." In the M3, I felt safe, secure, and very confident that the car was capable. In the 951, you tend to feel more "naked." The car wont think twice to tell you your doing something stupid - if you dont like feeling exposed, and in control (as opposed to disconnected and relying on the car itself) you wont like the car.

In a situation near the limit where one finds himself exceeding the cars' respective capabilities, the 951 is quick to show you what youve done wrong, but will return itself again with minimal driver input - its easy to catch - the M3 makes you feel invincible until you loose it... then youve lost it - hard to get it back if you've REALLY pushed it. (again, by comparision)

Both engines are phenomenal, and both cars hold up extremely well if properly maintained. Both have their weak points, and both have their strong points - they just cater to different drivers.

(Note) - Drag racing explaination - the 951 may be able to generate SERIOUS amounts of power, but getting it to the ground is more difficult - the car (as BMW's will also say) was NOT made to drag race (yes, it actually applies to the P-car) - the drive shaft is actually made to flex a good deal and the rear CV joints will pop with constant launches. Even if you do hook up, you'll blow something more... expensive anyway. That said - its more than possibile to get a 951 into the 11's if you really wanted to - but getting good times in the car is nearly impossible - whats really impressive is seeing someone get a typical crap launch in the car and then posting a 135 MPH trap speed.... thats impressive.

If you want to drag the car - buy an M3 - lightyears easier to launch - its frustrating to lose time because the car wasnt built for it.

(Ok, that wasnt much of a summary was it...) :dunno

Here are some websites you can check out:

www.autothority.com

www.rennlist.com

www.gururacing.net

www.huntleyracing.com

www.americaninternationalracing.com

www.speedforceracing.com/

www.gt-racing.com

forums.pelicanparts.com

www.paragon-products.com

www.racersedge-inc.com

www.starnet.net/~menelaos/cars.html

www.cowlishaw.net/~jim/video/video.htm


There are a bunch more I cant find at the moment regarding racing mod's, DYI projects, and maint tips - if you look through some of the bigger sites listed, however - you will find most of it anyway.

Hope this helps,

Cheers!!

:)

Bump for those who requested the info.

nice kill

Thanks for the detailed reply, Stuttgart951. Big help there. BTW, I already have an E36 M3 and while I love it, eventually will want something less compromised... something hairy, untamed and big fun. It also needs to be inexpensive to get started up. So far its between the 951 and 3rd gen RX7, but I'm leaning towards the Porsche. Thanks again for the info.


-Apex

No problem - BTW - I took some pic's of my car on Sunday - finally got around to uploading them - not bad, eh? :cool:

http://www.p-caronline.com/directory/images/stuttgart951/stuttgart951_image2.jpg

Originally posted by Stuttgart951
No problem - BTW - I took some pic's of my car on Sunday - finally got around to uploading them - not bad, eh? :cool:

http://www.p-caronline.com/directory/images/stuttgart951/stuttgart951_image2.jpg

Man that thing looks sweet!!! I wish mine was black as well. You got a hell of a good looking 951!!!

Gorgeous car. Hopefully, when the time comes, I can find one as clean as yours. Those are 993 wheels, aren't they? Did they come stock on the 944 ever?


-Apex

No, the wheels are not stock, and never came OEM on 944's - they did however (for one year I think on 968's). The wheels I have mounted are 17x8 and 17x9 Cup's that came off a 1996 993.

There are clean cars out there, just dont jump the gun, youll find one. ;)

Beautiful car!! :clap:

I've still yet to drive any Porsche of any type. That's my next goal, as I got to check "E46 M3" off the list this past weekend. :love1