http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=173607#post173607

420hp.

hmmm

what a bust. people will be better off buying the 335 Turbo, modding it and having a better car than the under-powered E92 M3.


another disappointment by bmw.. 440-450hp shouldve been the mark. we'll see. maybe its all bulls1it

420hp is low? arnt they using a similar motor fromt he E39 M5? just curious. well even tho.. its not bad. i think they should slow play the HP on engines rather than jumping 100hp per generation. remember for US.. E30 M3 has around what? 200hP? E36 240hp... E46 M3 333hp. i personally thing its better to slow play everything. but thats just my opinon..

I agree, if they run out of new technology by releasing it all now, we'll have nothing to look forward to.

420hp is low? arnt they using a similar motor fromt he E39 M5? just curious. well even tho.. its not bad. i think they should slow play the HP on engines rather than jumping 100hp per generation. remember for US.. E30 M3 has around what? 200hP? E36 240hp... E46 M3 333hp. i personally thing its better to slow play everything. but thats just my opinon..

seriously, what's going to happen when the next gas crisis comes around. Will we see a 4 cyl. 200 hp m3 again in the future? hmmmm....diesel m3 320si style?

420hp is low? arnt they using a similar motor fromt he E39 M5? just curious. well even tho.. its not bad. i think they should slow play the HP on engines rather than jumping 100hp per generation. remember for US.. E30 M3 has around what? 200hP? E36 240hp... E46 M3 333hp. i personally thing its better to slow play everything. but thats just my opinon..

Actually, the new v8 is supposedly based off of the v10 in the m5/m6, so anything north of 400hp is an improvement.

420hp.

hmmm

what a bust. people will be better off buying the 335 Turbo, modding it and having a better car than the under-powered E92 M3.


another disappointment by bmw.. 440-450hp shouldve been the mark. we'll see. maybe its all bulls1it

You have to remember: 95% of 335 owners aren't going to modify their cars. And even if you want to approach it from that angle, there is a strong base of owners who prefer NA, high-revving motors over forced induction. Now take into consideration that the M3 has flared fenders and will tuck more rubber, stock will have a superior suspension, superior brakes, superior transmission (7-speed SMG??), A LIMITED SLIP DIFFERENTIAL, and probably a schnazzy interior with sportier seats, you have to admit that the overall package is attractive enough for 95% of BMWs target market. So what if there are a thousand 335s out there that could get an M3 in a straight line. Since when were BMWs about straight line performance anyway?

I love the new 335 as much as the next guy, but the new m3 will be great.

looks just like the m coupe in the first 2 pics

I know what I'm getting in 10 years.

I don't like the new M3's look :P

Those are not real pics or real specs.

I hope not real pics, looks like re-touched e90/2 spy shots. If it looks like a iwde body 335 i'd be happy. Hopefully the v8 is light, please don't turn the m3 into a fat pig.

God I hope it's not real.
I cringed when THIS was the first thing I saw

http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/6757/feb07cover225pxwo6.jpg

That angle makes it look gross, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was close to the final product

love it have to get 1

the back of the car looks like crap. It's waay too busy with all the fins, tailpipes, and flame surfacing. Why couldn't they have just kept it clean and simple :(

So what if there are a thousand 335s out there that could get an M3 in a straight line. Since when were BMWs about straight line performance anyway?

BMW's arent about straight line performance which is why saying that a modded 335i is only a sraight line performer is stupid. I dont get these statements because for the 95% of the people you are talking also wont ever go even near the suspension limits of a 335i. Besides most handling gains found in M cars arent realized on the streets and the 95% you are talking about dont go to the track or AutoX either.

Lets be honest and admit that the number one reason why most( 95% ) people buy the M version is for the M itself, followed by the cool exteior and interior that makes it look unique, then probably the performance.

Jason

Saying 420hp is under powered is kinda lame.

This new e92 M3 will have a power to weight ratio like a C6 corvette.

That corvette had run low 12's. I expect the same for the new M3.

BMW's arent about straight line performance which is why saying that a modded 335i is only a sraight line performer is stupid. I dont get these statements because for the 95% of the people you are talking also wont ever go even near the suspension limits of a 335i. Besides most handling gains found in M cars arent realized on the streets and the 95% you are talking about dont go to the track or AutoX either.

Lets be honest and admit that the number one reason why most( 95% ) people buy the M version is for the M itself, followed by the cool exteior and interior that makes it look unique, then probably the performance.

Jason

What I'm also waiting to find out is exactly how different the new M3's suspension actually differers from the 335 sport package suspensions. I'd be willing to bet that the differences are minor and easily upgraded to M3 specs. Who knows, maybe the only difference will be diff, sway bars, spring rate, and wheel/tire width. All of which are pretty easily changed.

As far as the stying goes, I'm sure it will be awesome as always. BMW doesn't go for over the top aggressive styling, they use softer cues that are more elegant but still say "this car is special". The last thing I want is an M3 that looks like a Lotus.

Saying 420hp is under powered is kinda lame.

This new e92 M3 will have a power to weight ratio like a C6 corvette.

That corvette had run low 12's. I expect the same for the new M3.

It's almost guaranteed that the new M3 will weight AT LEAST 500 lbs MORE than the Vette, and have nowhere near the torque, so I don't see them running similar times.

It's almost guaranteed that the new M3 will weight AT LEAST 500 lbs MORE than the Vette, and have nowhere near the torque, so I don't see them running similar times.

I can't wait for this battle to happen. Should be fun.

Saying 420hp is under powered is kinda lame.

This new e92 M3 will have a power to weight ratio like a C6 corvette.

That corvette had run low 12's. I expect the same for the new M3.

you're crazy. ;)


the e92 M3 will be a fat cow. 3600+ lbs easy.

420hp too soft... especially with the 335i twin turbo stacking on 60-80hp with just software upgrade. I would feel better for the M3 to have 440-450 hp out of the box. that could justify a 70k+ price tag.

honestly, the E92 M3 CSL should be offered as a 'base' model. just like the 05 M3 Comp Package shouldve been the base model in 2001. It's an M3, it should be the pinnacle.

the gap between the 335 and M3 seems like its going to be small.


THIS is ALL speculation.:D

you're crazy. ;)


the e92 M3 will be a fat cow. 3600+ lbs easy.

420hp too soft... especially with the 335i twin turbo stacking on 60-80hp with just software upgrade. I would feel better for the M3 to have 440-450 hp out of the box. that could justify a 70k+ price tag.

honestly, the E92 M3 CSL should be offered as a 'base' model. just like the 05 M3 Comp Package shouldve been the base model in 2001. It's an M3, it should be the pinnacle.

the gap between the 335 and M3 seems like its going to be small.


THIS is ALL speculation.:D

I agree with you that the E90/92 M3 will be a bit on the heavy side, just as the E46 was. This is obviously a result of BMW making the M3 more marketable to a broader range of potential clients by adding amenities that 90% of bf.c members would rather do without. That's reality I'm affraid. It's also the reason I love to see wrecked e36 m3 parts cars everywhere, so I can keep mine on the road for a long time to come until I can just build a M3 GTR for myself.

As far as you statement about the CSL being the base model, that's just impossible. Just the carbon fiber alone in the CSL has to cost $5-7k more than the original parts. How can you make a car a base model when it costs much more to produce than the standard M3 offering??? Same goes for the zcp package, as it's wheels, brakes, and many other things are more expensive than the standard offering. I think I see what you're trying to say, but it's just not feasible in today's world. Too many yuppies want to be seen in a car labeled with an ///M on the trunk. It's become too much of a status car. That's why they offer the CSL and ZCP cars in the first place, to appease the now minority of clients who actually put performance ahead of luxury. It's sad, but it's the truth. That's probably why BMW isn't worried about the 335's power being so close to the M3 b/c they know 80% of clients just want a car that says ///M. Those clients won't even think about buying the 335 as a result. Many probably don't even know the 335 exists or what kind of power it has. And just forget about tuning potential, as those people don't care. Why do you think benz puts AMG logos all over there cars (including outside) even when it's not actually a complete AMG car, just has aero and wheel packages. They want to make that car appear like it's an AMG so it will sell better. Probably why SP bimmers have the ///M badge all over the interiors as well. Long as it stays inside the car, I guess I'm ok with it.

agreed, but it isnt right.

I agree with you that the E90/92 M3 will be a bit on the heavy side, just as the E46 was. This is obviously a result of BMW making the M3 more marketable to a broader range of potential clients by adding amenities that 90% of bf.c members would rather do without. That's reality I'm affraid. It's also the reason I love to see wrecked e36 m3 parts cars everywhere, so I can keep mine on the road for a long time to come until I can just build a M3 GTR for myself.

As far as you statement about the CSL being the base model, that's just impossible. Just the carbon fiber alone in the CSL has to cost $5-7k more than the original parts. How can you make a car a base model when it costs much more to produce than the standard M3 offering??? Same goes for the zcp package, as it's wheels, brakes, and many other things are more expensive than the standard offering. I think I see what you're trying to say, but it's just not feasible in today's world. Too many yuppies want to be seen in a car labeled with an ///M on the trunk. It's become too much of a status car. That's why they offer the CSL and ZCP cars in the first place, to appease the now minority of clients who actually put performance ahead of luxury. It's sad, but it's the truth. That's probably why BMW isn't worried about the 335's power being so close to the M3 b/c they know 80% of clients just want a car that says ///M. Those clients won't even think about buying the 335 as a result. Many probably don't even know the 335 exists or what kind of power it has. And just forget about tuning potential, as those people don't care. Why do you think benz puts AMG logos all over there cars (including outside) even when it's not actually a complete AMG car, just has aero and wheel packages. They want to make that car appear like it's an AMG so it will sell better. Probably why SP bimmers have the ///M badge all over the interiors as well. Long as it stays inside the car, I guess I'm ok with it.

here is the best looking pic i have been able to find. i fawking love the color two, an M exclusive no doubt. F' a 335, it never all about hp, the 335's looks are a bit understated anyways......

for Makeveli. one of my favs

Not a fan of the new M if this is it.

here is the best looking pic i have been able to find. i fawking love the color two, an M exclusive no doubt. F' a 335, it never all about hp, the 335's looks are a bit understated anyways......

I'm pretty sure that's a p-chop from a long time ago. I remember seeing it somewhere way back when. The color seems like Imola, which is currently offered and has been previously offered on non M cars just FYI.

i heard that this might be the last normal aspirated M that we'll see
here is the best looking pic i have been able to find. i fawking love the color two, an M exclusive no doubt. F' a 335, it never all about hp, the 335's looks are a bit understated anyways......
that PS is 10x times uglier


and for the guy who said that 420hp is too low for an M3.... :embarrasm

Some of these comments are just stupid.

420Hp is a lot of power for an M3 (most power so far) and just the right amount of jump from the E46 to the E92.

The new M3 is going to weigh similar to the 335 which does 0-60 is 4.8sec with an argued 300hp-330hp. I can only imagine that the M3 will sprint to 60 in around 4.5 sec with the extra 90 ponies... that is damn quick for an M3 and a BMW.

Its going to be fast, its going to look good, its going to handle well, and your going to want one.

Jason

Some of these comments are just stupid.

420Hp is a lot of power for an M3 (most power so far) and just the right amount of jump from the E46 to the E92.

The new M3 is going to weigh similar to the 335 which does 0-60 is 4.8sec with an argued 300hp-330hp. I can only imagine that the M3 will sprint to 60 in around 4.5 sec with the extra 90 ponies... that is damn quick for an M3 and a BMW.

Its going to be fast, its going to look good, its going to handle well, and your going to want one.

Jason


Although I agree with you, aren't most 335's dynoing with over 300 whp, not bhp? B/c if that's the case...

300 whp = approx. 350-355 bhp using 15% drivetrain loss

420 bhp = approx. 360 whp with same 15% loss

That's cutting it close. Anyone know what kind of tq. the new M3 is supposed to put down? The torque curve/area of the 335 may actually be better than that of the new M3. I think we're just going to have to admit that both are just bad ass.

Although I agree with you, aren't most 335's dynoing with over 300 whp, not bhp? B/c if that's the case...

I have yet to see any stock 335s dyno at more than 275 at the wheel.

Show me a dyno chart that has a stock 335 dyno at over 300.

Christ in another month or two we're going to have people claim that the 335 makes over 335HP at the wheel at the current rate that these "fantasy dyno numbers" are showing up.

Came across this interesting post by a Car Magazine employee:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13337

Basically he explains how they came up with these pics. Supposedly from BMW blueprint designs or something

The back of it looks like a audi, but i still think its a cool looking car.

335 vs. M3....:sigh:


Firstly, like someone said 99% of 335 buyers will stay stock. Not everyone just runs out to vaild their warranty (esp on a BMW lol).

Second, remember there is no replacement for displacement...Put a TT or S/C setup ona 4.0 V8 and good luck grabing that 100 dollar bill of the dash board.

Third, After driving the 335 the suspension felt much softer, less responsive and disconnected from the road as compared to my stock 95 M3 with 114k miles...Im sure the suspension will be magnetic on the E92 M3. You all sound like a bunch of ricers here "Well the 335 will smoke it with some mods [in a straight line]"

Finally, its an M3 designed by professionals who work from BMW...There is a reason why they work for BMW designing there pure breds and we don't. Remember BMW hasnt been bought out by a huge company and has to make money to stay a float. I think we could sacrifice one fat M3 for a possibly more promising future?

I have yet to see any stock 335s dyno at more than 275 at the wheel.

Show me a dyno chart that has a stock 335 dyno at over 300.

Christ in another month or two we're going to have people claim that the 335 makes over 335HP at the wheel at the current rate that these "fantasy dyno numbers" are showing up.

I sware I saw numerous threads about the dyno numbers, I'll try and track them down when I have some time. I was kind of phrasing it as a question, not a statement of fact. Hence the question mark at the end of the sentance. ;)

I think we could sacrifice one fat M3 for a possibly more promising future?

We already did that. It's called the e46 M3. I can't wait another 8 years for the e90/92 M3 successor anyways.

Second, remember there is no replacement for displacement...Put a TT or S/C setup ona 4.0 V8 and good luck grabing that 100 dollar bill of the dash board.


Torque is what makes grabbing that $100 bill hard to do. Both the M3 and the 335 are going to be very close to 300. Chip that 335 and the torque will be much higher than the M3's.


Third, After driving the 335 the suspension felt much softer, less responsive and disconnected from the road as compared to my stock 95 M3 with 114k miles...Im sure the suspension will be magnetic on the E92 M3. You all sound like a bunch of ricers here "Well the 335 will smoke it with some mods [in a straight line]"

Did you drive a coupe or a sedan? If it was a sedan, was it a sport package car? All I know is that the rear suspension in your 95 is much different from the e90/92's. When I drove a 330i SP car, I felt much more planted at the limits than my modded 95 does. I even commented to my friend after one hard right downsloping turn that I didn't think I could wreck this car if I tried. It was that good.

I'm pretty sure that's a p-chop from a long time ago. I remember seeing it somewhere way back when. The color seems like Imola, which is currently offered and has been previously offered on non M cars just FYI.

nah, imola is okay, but i was thinking about the color that is available on the M6's, more ruby red than pastel blood red.



all e92 M3 haters should be hung for blasphemy.

i gaurantee the car will be everything it is expected to be; M cars reputations precede them far to much to ever allow dissapointment........its not an AMG badge, its a M badge, there is a huge difference in what it signifies and the amount of design and engineering that comes along with it.


and yes, i would take mine with big wheels, a sunroof, navigation, and anything else a luxury sports GT would have to offer..........and at $70k id be pretty happy with it-happy enough never to second guess paying the extra money over a 335.

now a 535(when it comes out) vs m5 could be an interesting debate for those "ballers on a budget", myself included, that arent looking for a suedo street racer sports car, but just want something stylish, fast, and fun to drive.


um, more important than all this speculation-when the hell is this car coming to dealer showrooms so we can actually get real oppinions?

Torque is what makes grabbing that $100 bill hard to do. Both the M3 and the 335 are going to be very close to 300. Chip that 335 and the torque will be much higher than the M3's.




Did you drive a coupe or a sedan? If it was a sedan, was it a sport package car? All I know is that the rear suspension in your 95 is much different from the e90/92's. When I drove a 330i SP car, I felt much more planted at the limits than my modded 95 does. I even commented to my friend after one hard right downsloping turn that I didn't think I could wreck this car if I tried. It was that good.
Im sure youll pull more TQ out of a modded 8 then a 6...Remember im talking about stock.

I drove both coupe and sedan with sport on both.

nah, imola is okay, but i was thinking about the color that is available on the M6's, more ruby red than pastel blood red.


I think you're talking about Indianapolis Red.

Im sure youll pull more TQ out of a modded 8 then a 6...Remember im talking about stock.

I drove both coupe and sedan with sport on both.

Turbo motors make gobs of torque and the area below the curve is HUGE! I highly doubt the new M will have 300+lb.ft. from 1500 rpm to 6000 rpm.. That just doesn't normally happen on NA motors, unless maybe it's a big block v8. The 335 will make more tq. than hp. with mods due to it being a turbo motor. Both will have their +'s I'm sure.

Im sure youll pull more TQ out of a modded 8 then a 6...Remember im talking about stock.

I drove both coupe and sedan with sport on both.

What're you talking about.
Pull more torque as in MOD it? Stock as in DON'T mod it?

Either way, the turbo will always have more torque under the curve and potential for more. Displacement? Have you seen the numbers for the M5's S85? 10 cylinders, 5 liters of displacement, 500hp, but 380 ft/lb? Now the 335's N54 has 300/300 STOCK. There's a 80 ft/lb of difference between motors with a difference of 2 litres of displacement? Between the new M3 and the 335 there's only a difference 1 litre. Displacement what?

I don't know where you're going with modding potential. Ever seen the graphs for an E36 M3's S50/2 with exhaust, intake, and software? About a whopping 10-15hp gain. Ever seen the graphs for a forced induction Evo/Imprezza/GTI with those same boltons?

But maybe you're trying to keep it apples to apples, meaning if you turbo the E92 M3's bigger engine, you'll get more power. In theory a turbo 4.0 (or whatever the final number is for the E92 M3) will make more power than a turbo 3.0, but that's only if you can actually turbocharge it. If you noticed, it's really not that easy, in fact, it's a complete bitch. R and D, feasibility, cost, installation, cracking BMWs wizardry to map it all and get it to actually work. Then you have to worry about what's going to happen when you drive it down the block. This is the story of those trying to tune the S54, and only now are they starting to make significant breakthroughs, noting Horsepower Freaks. On the other hand, the tuner Vinshu (spelling?) bought a 335, did some basic bolt-ons like software, and pulled out an extra 50hp in some rediculous timeframe like a week.

Now that's pulling more torque out of a modified engine...stock...

whatever that means :rofl

Saying 420hp is under powered is kinda lame.

This new e92 M3 will have a power to weight ratio like a C6 corvette.

That corvette had run low 12's. I expect the same for the new M3.

Same power to weight ratio...? I dont think the M3 will come close to C6's 3170 lbs.

for FI, the 335i is by far the better choice.... i don't know how many turbo or SC M3's we will see in the future, maybe just as many as M5's with FI :rolleyes
their engine is already at huge stress, so FI a M3 is not easy... and very risky; we will def. see 335i's slamming M3's on the highway

in that order, i will take the M3 without a single doubt... just look at how much work they are putting into it, it's by far the most awaited moment in auto-industry this year

Why does everyone act shocked over *420HP* ?? LOL. It's obvious that it would have that much being it's essentially an M5 motor minus 2 cylinders. The extra 20 HP over what an 8 cyl'ed M5 motor would make (or 4 HP per liter more than 100hp/liter) is the improvement. I'm sure they'll bring a higher HP rare "CSL" model or something similar rated closer to ~450HP. But stop dreaming about anything more, it would make no sense for BMW to develop more. Yes, the 335i can be modded more readily but there's a whole lot of go-fast goodies that will come with the M3 that isn't an option on a 335i either. (i.e. significantly superior suspension, much bigger brakes, better aerodynamics & cosmetics, LSD, etc.) ...and it may take a whiiile, but I'm sure someone will develop a supercharger or turbo kit for them down the road which will mean BIG HP...

Why does everyone act shocked over *420HP* ?? LOL. It's obvious that it would have that much being it's essentially an M5 motor minus 2 cylinders. The extra 20 HP over what an 8 cyl'ed M5 motor would make (or 4 HP per liter more than 100hp/liter) is the improvement. I'm sure they'll bring a higher HP rare "CSL" model or something similar rated closer to ~450HP. But stop dreaming about anything more, it would make no sense for BMW to develop more. Yes, the 335i can be modded more readily but there's a whole lot of go-fast goodies that will come with the M3 that isn't an option on a 335i either. (i.e. significantly superior suspension, much bigger brakes, better aerodynamics & cosmetics, LSD, etc.) ...and it may take a whiiile, but I'm sure someone will develop a supercharger or turbo kit for them down the road which will mean BIG HP...

I guess when you drive a Viper, there aren't a lot of cars that will surprise you in terms of raw power :stickoutt

As for mods, the chances of forced induction being developed for the E92 M3 within a reasonable timeframe from now for a reasonable price is very slim. You want go fast for the M3? Well there's Dinan's supercharger for the E46 M3. Just about $12,000 or something for around 420hp/320lbtq. It's been said, power will not come cheap when working on these high strung motors. An aftermarket that favors the informed enthusiast over the rich businessman probably won't be around for at least another 6 years from now.

I know I'd take an M3 over the 335 for the same reasons, better handling, brakes, cosmetics, etc. But really it's just status and badge for most. I bet if you (general term, not just YOU) were thrown in two different cars not knowing which was which, one being the 335, the other being the M3, you'd be hard pressed to create a marginal difference of laptimes. There are people here who obviously can, but for the rest of us, what does an LSD and better suspension mean if we obviously can't benefit the difference?

I sware I saw numerous threads about the dyno numbers, I'll try and track them down when I have some time. I was kind of phrasing it as a question, not a statement of fact. Hence the question mark at the end of the sentance. ;)

You're thinking about modded 335s. Stock is about 275, with piggyback has been north of 300.

It's not a bad looking car, but I don't like the fact that it's a V8. They strayed away from the humble inline six.

It's not a bad looking car, but I don't like the fact that it's a V8. They strayed away from the humble inline six.

The inline 6 strayed away from the humble 4 cylinder in the ORIGINAL M3. What is your point? :rolleyes

Car looks very sick! Wonder what some of the tuning companies will get power wise out of this car?

The inline 6 strayed away from the humble 4 cylinder in the ORIGINAL M3. What is your point? :rolleyes

People always forget that the e30 M3's s14 was a 4 pot.

It's the same story with the m5. Inline six was ditched in favor of a v8, which was later ditched in favor of a v10. No biggie.

If the 335 vs E92 M3 arguements to date are any accurate indication of where this sub forum is going in the future...we're not going to have many E92 M3 owners that hang out for too long.

The inline 6 strayed away from the humble 4 cylinder in the ORIGINAL M3. What is your point? :rolleyes

I just prefer the inline 6. IMO, it has a better sound and better balance.

For me, it will really depend on pricing. If it comes in at $70K at the door -- I think that is WAY to expensive regardless of the upgrades.

I was kind of shocked to see how expensive the 335i is out the door ...

For me all m3s are underpowered. I feel that for the handeling that comes from BMW particularly the M series demands more power.

As far as price goes. Take a look at the Audi RS4 with a base of 66,000 and the E63 AMG (exponentially more). Simply put, you have to pay to play.

-Scott

420hp.

hmmm

what a bust. people will be better off buying the 335 Turbo, modding it and having a better car than the under-powered E92 M3.


another disappointment by bmw.. 440-450hp shouldve been the mark. we'll see. maybe its all bulls1it

Warranty > risk blowing what'll surely be a wtfomgexp$$$$$ to replace turbo setup.

335i modding seems like it'll be reminicent (sp?) of the b5 s4. 60hp and 90+ft/lbs is fun and all, until you have to replace them (the turbos) due to the ECU reflash upping boost from 8psi to a max of 17psi (GIAC).

Time will tell, I suppose.

that rear might be the ugliest thing i have ever seen i am sorry to say

Sucks to be BMW.

In a world of hybrids, slushbox's and hum drum styling BMW blows us out of the water with 420hp, sedan, featuring the latest in transmission advancements bolted to a high revving exotic power plant, in a uniquely styled sedan.

To the styling Nazi's, draw a concept...wait draw 8 concepts to fit BMW's entire brand line. While doing that make sure the brand identity is clear. Then make sure every car looks fast... what that means I don't know but somehow do it. Then after that make it pass safety crap, and hit the interior space numbers so the magazines don't bitch. After that make sure we can package a kick ass engine/drive train in it so we can make it an M car.

Before I forget please all the web experts who will fill your life with all sorts of styling advise. They mod angel eyes on there older cars, and put e46 bumpers on e30's but trust us listen to them they know what the hell there talking about.

They must.... after all they spend there lives talking about BMW's not designing them.

I mean this all out of love :)

Josh

Oh man, I think I just died a little inside. Fuck Bangle.

The car will sell and sell and sell. 4 door, hard-top convert, etc., etc.
Has all the right showroom and ad space spec - V8 w/ 400+ hp, etc.
Will be best-selling M car ever. Non-enthusiasts (95% of the market) will love it.

I hate the look. Could have been SO MUCH better looking. The rear half of the car is just plain horrible. The side character line "swoosh" is already PLAYED - almost every new car has the same swoosh line. The front bumper looks stupid - but can be replaced - there will be aftermarket shit galore for the car to make it more aggressive-looking.

I see it as I saw the e46 when it came out. A flawed car that might be cool to buy as a used car 5-10 years down the road for 50% the new cost. However, I skipped the e46 altogether and will likely pass on this one too. The car just does not look right.

P-Car convert on the way . . .

P-Car convert on the way . . .

A lot of us are already there my friend ... But, I agree with all of your comments. I think the E46 M3 is a fun car -- if they go to the $20K range in the next 1-2 years -- might be a great car to have.

I still cannot see paying $60-65K for this ... Then again, I was never sold on paying for a brand new E46 M3 either. Perhaps it's me; but, I'm not sold on the new E90's. A lot of people like them, I see one every morning (335i) and it is not growing on me. The M3 may be a lot more aggressive; but, overall, the back end will retain it's shape and I hate the back-end. Something about the front-end as well on the E90 I do not like -- it just looks kind of weird from the side, at least to me.

I still think the E36 M3 and E34 M5 are two of the best overall cars I've ever driven for the price point (used) that combine luxury, performance, and style all for under $20K. One could own an E36 M3, E34 M5, and an E30 M3 rather than the new E92 M3 :)