Help, need thoughts/comments/suggestions....

My new toy checked out mechanically, but the blue top (original) has a problem, maybe a few. When it rained, the front seats were wet in the morning, the headliner was saturated and dripping through. I called the previous owner, but says she did not use it in the rain (it does look like it) and kept in the garage. On the detail forum, they asked if the water beeded up when washed and it did not. They recommended the Raggtopp kit which I bought and used. The next rain (over a month later) it was wet down the rib of the roof over the front seats and just starting to drip through. The group in detail stated that I should go see a BMW top mechanic or thought I needed new seals.

First top guy, oh you need a new top about $ 1K, would fix problem, need car for 2 days.

Second top guy. Leak probably coming through tread missing through rib on roof, might be seals but will replace headliner, and roof and silicone seals for about $ 2K. If seals are really needed, extra. About 2 days to be complete (10-12 hours).

So, since I'm new to verts, what sounds right - Prices for replacements? Something else? Is it the seals? Does a water proof cover meet the need? Good place to go for a thrid opinion in Tampa, Florida area?

A little overwhelmed - Chris

yeah, a fabric treatment wont solve this problem. water soaking into the outer fabric is perfectly normal and isnt the sole cause of leaks. that was a terrible recommendation. if it wasnt acceptable, bmw would have used vinyl instead of canvas.

its really tough to say what the issue really is. my car leaks through the front corners of the top sometimes, but its just little drops - nothing too bad.

you could try replacing the seals along the front of the car - the main one that goes across and the funny shaped ones that are at the top of the A-pillars where the front side windows, windsheild, and convertible top all come together. i would say try a rubber conditioner such as this stuff, but it sounds like your seals may be beyond repair. http://stores.homestead.com/einszettusa/-strse-13/gummi-pflege%2C-rubber%2C-weather/Detail.bok

if that doesnt work, then definitely spring for a new top ASAP. it will be worth it.

Palo,

Which ones?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/y/n/115.png

Is this DIY or top guy and what is the average cost?

For everybody else, how does the inside of a car look without a liner?

Average cost of installed top with and without liner, and include both straps?

here is a link of the same page but including what the number correspond to...

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BK73&mospid=47477&btnr=54_0181&hg=54&fg=10

id say maybe 3 and 24. i just looked down the list for gaskets and seals.

I think maybe #2 in this diagram is the funny shaped rubber piece at the top of the A-pillars. not too sure though. http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BK73&mospid=47477&btnr=51_2059&hg=51&fg=20

replacing the seals could be a DIY. i havent done it myself, but i cant imagine it being too difficult if you were patient with it. as for installing a whole new top - id recommend searching for an in-depth write-up from someone else that did it themself, preferrably with pics. after reading such a write-up, you can then decide if its something youd want to attempt yourself. id be up for trying it, since its only fastened in at 2 points on the car AND the guys at the shop are just people too. with the right instructions, if they can do it, why not you?

i guess it depends on how much of a DIYer you are and how much money you have to toss at this.

Chris -

Welcome to the forums and hello from a part-time St. Pete guy.

I sent you a private message with a name of a great mechanic in St. Pete as well as the name of a leather/ragtop guy (I haven't used the leather/top guy, but trust the mechanic who referred me to him).

What kind of top do you have - manual, semi-, or fully-automatic?

After you put the raggtop stuff on, did you wash the top with detergents, etc? Did you ever get a chance to see if the raggtop stuff worked? Car wash detergents can damage the waterproofing. Also, putting on that stuff can take more than one application.

If the top soaked clear through, a few things have probably happened:
the original waterproofing is gone, and the rubber membrane from the inside of the canvas tops is probably gone/rotted away as well. Do you get nasty little brown-flaky things in your interior when you open/close the top?

The rubber membrane is helpful for waterproofing but also provides some noise dampening as well. If you have the cash and think it's worth it, and if your membrane is gone, now is the time to get a new top. Pelican Parts has a lot of tops/seals/etc here (http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/catalog/shopcart/BE36/POR_BE36_BDYcon_pg1.htm#item1)at pretty good prices. Although if you decide to go for a professional repair, they may be able to get wholesale and save you some cash.

If the top soaks completely through, water actually wicks down through the headliner and drips into the car (voice of experience). Your seals may actually be fine.

Some suggestions to try as you sort this out:
1) Try the raggtop again, and apply a few coats on it. After it dries, try hosing the top and see how it works. If you don't like the results, try going to a West Marine boat shop and pick up some 303 cleaner and 303 waterproofer (2 separate bottles). That stuff works well.
2) Get some Gummi Pfledge (Pelican, Bavarian Autosport carry it) and treat your seals. I'm fairly confident the seals aren't your problem, but the Florida sun beats the crap out of them anyway, and preventive maintenance never hurts.

Good luck!

BB

p.s. If you aren't already a member, the Florida Suncoast chapter of the BMWCCA is fairly active and a good group. Consider joining...

1. Automatic top. Original blue.

2. Ragg topp protectant was put on about 3 timees (whole can).

3. Was recommended to vacuum top and rinse. Any other recommendations?

4. Just got the Gummi Pfledge in the mail from Pelican, will wait until it stops raining (will go check with towels) to answer the next couple of questions.

5. If anybody has replaced a top without the $435 liner, how does it look from the inside without it?? 3 series, not Z3 or 4. I've seen a few of those and it looks OK.

Thanks for the comments - Great Forum as always!

I would check with BAVAUTO.com and see what they say.
Help, need thoughts/comments/suggestions....

My new toy checked out mechanically, but the blue top (original) has a problem, maybe a few. When it rained, the front seats were wet in the morning, the headliner was saturated and dripping through. I called the previous owner, but says she did not use it in the rain (it does look like it) and kept in the garage. On the detail forum, they asked if the water beeded up when washed and it did not. They recommended the Raggtopp kit which I bought and used. The next rain (over a month later) it was wet down the rib of the roof over the front seats and just starting to drip through. The group in detail stated that I should go see a BMW top mechanic or thought I needed new seals.

First top guy, oh you need a new top about $ 1K, would fix problem, need car for 2 days.

Second top guy. Leak probably coming through tread missing through rib on roof, might be seals but will replace headliner, and roof and silicone seals for about $ 2K. If seals are really needed, extra. About 2 days to be complete (10-12 hours).

So, since I'm new to verts, what sounds right - Prices for replacements? Something else? Is it the seals? Does a water proof cover meet the need? Good place to go for a thrid opinion in Tampa, Florida area?

A little overwhelmed - Chris

I will wait to hear exactly where your car is leaking but I will hazzard a guess. I would guess it is leaking from the windshield corners and along the top too. This is caused because the rubber shrinks and will leak over time.
Solution is the rubber strip that goes along the cloth top, not canvas by the way, from about 10 inches back along the driver and passenger window at the top, the entire soft top where the soft top meets the windshield frame.
I got mine from Circle BMW for around 200 bucks shipped and it solved the leak issue. One other place to check and it might buy you some time is the rubber cap on each side the windshield frame at the top. The rubber cap is like 1 inch by 1 inch. Usually this shrinks too and the best solution is to get some double back sticky padded carpet tape and place it under the cap. That will build you more material that was there before and until you choose to replace that rubber piece it will help solve some of the most common leaks.
I don't know where the top would be leaking into the headliner area since you have used the waterproofing.
I also suggest using the Gummi Pheldge liberally on the rubber pieces as they will without some lube and regular use rub and stick on the metal. You might even hear a moaning noise until lubed up.

I am on my 3rd convertible and the leaks I have talked about have occured in all three convertibles I have owned...

Thanks to all the thoughts on the leak. It poured down here in FL for the Holiday weekend. The fronts seats towels (I bet it would leak) were pretty wet on Saturday mroning. It still appears to be leaking through the top. Please note that the stitch is missing along that rail above the front seats. Would that be were it is leaking, through the stitch holes??? The rail below the headliner is where it is wet.

I Gummi'ed all the rubber, and courtesy of the holiday I covered that half of the top. Sounds like new top time! Any good estimates out there? BMW is 2495 + 10 hours just for the top, no liner or replacement bands. What has been the average cost out there for top, liner and both bands installed?

Chris

neither my e36 nor e46 have had any leaks whatsoever (knocks on wood)

neither my e36 nor e46 have had any leaks whatsoever (knocks on wood)

Yet....

Mine started leaking, took it to my top guy and my troubles went away for $400-worth makeover.

yet... I had my e36 for over 5 years and it never leaked (it was outside most of the time i owned it)

as far as my e46. I had the top replaced when I got it, so it's less than 2 years old

My car has, I can only assume, it's original top. 10 years old now.

Leakage is zero to none.

I have found a golden tip on my Dutch BMW forum.

I have never had a cleaner, newlike top, like I do now. Screw all the marketing and special products.

The tip was use good old ancient green soap. It costs a Euro (1.32 dollar) and is of course a very old cleaner, used by our grannies.

But low and behold....this stuff works! Besides a waterproofer, this is all I am useing now.

One tablespoon in a bucket and you get a very soft and very foamy cleaner that works a treat!

It was so good I cleaned by wheels with it too and they look fooking brand new.

Highly recommanded!