Well, I was debating on whether or not I was going to put this on here, just because I don't like it when people get all upset about races and stuff. But I am taking a break from studying differential equations, and I thought that I would share my experiences from earlier today.

I was driving back from Sacramento to Berkeley today after visiting my girlfriend and I was cruising along in my stock 1995 M3. I have only had one race in the car since I got it. I don't like to beat on my car; I have taken it to redline only twice and even then it was like 6600, which is a little short, actually. Anyways, I see a silver Evo VIII come up from behind me and he starts to tailgate me. Not too much, but enough that I know that he wants to get in a little bit of a fun altercation. I quickly change lanes into the middle lane, and he moves into the same lane ahead of me; there were, however, cars around and in front of us. When the two lanes on either side of us opened up on I-80, I see him downshift and move to the left of the car in front of him. Already going 80, I floored it in 5th gear and went to the right. He moves back into the middle lane, and I stay in the left lane. We ran from 80 to about 125. I wasn't looking at the speedometer, but when I let off I was at 5600 rpms; after some quick linear interpolation, that regresses back to around 125. Anyways, He didn't gain an inch on me through this high speed run. I could hear his exhaust and watched the carbon billow from his tail pipe when he shifted during the run, so I am pretty sure that he was going for it. When I pulled up next to him, he had two people in the car with him.

After that, it made more sense. I have heard of stock Evo's falling flat at high speeds, and the fact that he had an extra 300 pounds on him, made the fact that I had kept up with him seem more reasonable in my mind. However, in closing, I just want to comment on how happy I am that these engines, the S50 and the S52, pull so hard all the way to redline. It is an unrelenting barrage of torque and, after driving an S2000 for all of high school, going to a car with more grunt is a very nice change. I love these cars, and I can't wait to get the Conforti package and the stromung exhaust, to make this car even more peppy than it already is.

Thats awesome that you beat him without even downshifting, proof that the awd turbo 4's fall flat on the their face at speeds north of 100mph.

Thats awesome that you beat him without even downshifting, proof that the awd turbo 4's fall flat on the their face at speeds north of 100mph.

Hardly. The AWD hs nothing to do with it. The psi dropping 4-5lbs the last 1-1.5K of the revband does. Hold 20lbs at redline=no more poor highway performance.

Good kill!!

Stromung FTW! Mine just kept getting louder and louder.... haha

Finally, proof an E36 M3 can at least keep pace with Evo's. People don't give E36 M3's enough credit, and give Evo's and STI's too much credit. Don't get me wrong, Evo's and STI's are bad ass cars, but too many people talk about them like they're McLaren F1's or something.

Good kill; those evos are good cars out of the box. The M3 is a very good car also designed to travel at the higher speeds (autobahn).<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Finally, proof an E36 M3 can at least keep pace with Evo's. People don't give E36 M3's enough credit, and give Evo's and STI's too much credit. Don't get me wrong, Evo's and STI's are bad ass cars, but too many people talk about them like they're McLaren F1's or something.

My only run from a stop was against an evo, a friend of a friend. He said he had intake, exhaust, cams and a tune and that he ran 12.1 on race gas and 12.6 on pump... He took me by 1/2 a car(my mirror was on his bumper when we passed the line according to onlookers) but I was gaining fast:devillook. God bless Dinan superchargers and having 330 whp. I can't wait til spring and some nice sticky tires rather then all seasons!

dude, the evo had two passengers. I don't think it would be competition if it just driver alone. Extra passengers + 4wd + boost drop weak high speed performance.

I honestly cannot wait to get the Stromung exhaust, expecially with the Conforti intake and HFM chip package. I heard that, not only is the sound to die for, that the combo actually adds a lot of power to the already torquey S50. When I have that on my car I can listen to the great sound of my engine while I am keeping right with the next Evo that I run on the highway. And then when I slow back down, the exhaust is supposed to quiet right back down, and be just as silent as stock. That is the perfect system, if you ask me. :)

However, in closing, I just want to comment on how happy I am that these engines, the S50 and the S52, pull so hard all the way to redline.

how do you know if you've only taken it near redline twice? you should start wringing the car out more often.

Nice kill

I dont like to beat my car either but these cars can handle it and are designed well enough to take it. Open her up more often. Good kill but you need to get some mods lol.

Stock for stock there is no way in the world an E36 M3 will keep up with a '05+ Evo VIII

From a dig OR from a roll.

Stock my Evo put down about 240hp and trq to the wheels.

I owned a 98 M3 and did almost every bolt on imaginable before I went with a supercharge and there was no way my M3 would have kept up with my Evo.

Now that I have a few mods I crush E46 M3's all the time.

Nice kill, I am guessing it was an 03-04 based on the outcome. Evos fifth gear sucks until you get some good power. If you dropped it into fourth, you would have pulled a few cars. Both cars will trap around 100 so no complaining from me lol

Good kill.

I would think you'd lose to an evo

My friends E90 330i beat an E36 M3 at LACR drag strip by .2 seconds...if you need proof i have timeslips....but that same night he was being ass raped by EVO 8's and nines including some stock ones...
So i am going to call BS on this one....

My friends E90 330i beat an E36 M3 at LACR drag strip by .2 seconds...if you need proof i have timeslips....but that same night he was being ass raped by EVO 8's and nines including some stock ones...
So i am going to call BS on this one....
But thats racing from a stop where the 4wd has the upper hand.
highway is a different story

Why do people always "call BS"? It just leads to flames and arguments, and you'd have to give people more credibility than that. People don't just get bored and make stories, their story always has some truth to it even if it is stretched and twisted.

Good kill!!

Stromung FTW! Mine just kept getting louder and louder.... haha


mine too. And my smile just keeps getting bigger! :buttrock

Yea this is very true considering the speeds and people in the car for the evo. I have no problem believeing this. If this was from a dig or say much slower roll then I think everyone knows who would win.

good kill, i was amazed when i beat an EVO 8 on the high way from 50mph to 120, i never expected it because everyone talks them up so much

Stock for stock there is no way in the world an E36 M3 will keep up with a '05+ Evo VIII

From a dig OR from a roll.

Stock my Evo put down about 240hp and trq to the wheels.

I owned a 98 M3 and did almost every bolt on imaginable before I went with a supercharge and there was no way my M3 would have kept up with my Evo.

Now that I have a few mods I crush E46 M3's all the time.

+1

Stock for stock there is no way in the world an E36 M3 will keep up with a '05+ Evo VIII

From a dig OR from a roll.

Stock my Evo put down about 240hp and trq to the wheels.

I owned a 98 M3 and did almost every bolt on imaginable before I went with a supercharge and there was no way my M3 would have kept up with my Evo.

Now that I have a few mods I crush E46 M3's all the time.

Then explain how my Dinan M3 with 152k miles stayed dead even with a 2k mile 06 EVO? With both good drivers from a roll from 30 and highway from 65.

Stock for stock there is no way in the world an E36 M3 will keep up with a '05+ Evo VIII

From a dig OR from a roll.

Stock my Evo put down about 240hp and trq to the wheels.

I owned a 98 M3 and did almost every bolt on imaginable before I went with a supercharge and there was no way my M3 would have kept up with my Evo.

Now that I have a few mods I crush E46 M3's all the time.

yeah, because highway racing is all about the whp number :rolleyes

you have a looooong 3.15 diff on '95 M3. 4th gear in '95 M3 is endless. it actually ends at 126 mph if you have stock tires and rev to 7k. evo has to shift once maybe even twice to keep up or to win. bear in mind the guy didnt even downshift to 4th at 80mph, he just went from 5th.

you have a looooong 3.15 diff on '95 M3. 4th gear in '95 M3 is endless.



It's not that much taller than your 3.23

You're making it sound like he has a 2.93 rear-end or something.

i used to have a evo VIII (05') and im positive i would have killed my m3. from a roll on the freeway though the evo did lag it quite a bit but im pretty sure it would still beat my m3. anyways good race though!!

But thats racing from a stop where the 4wd has the upper hand.
highway is a different story

Correction: E90 330i s have RWD not AWD

Why do people always "call BS"? It just leads to flames and arguments, and you'd have to give people more credibility than that. People don't just get bored and make stories, their story always has some truth to it even if it is stretched and twisted.

Maybe cause the person calling BS has some sense in his head.....and can see that there is no way that two cars weighing about the same and one having about 25 more hp kept even with the one with less hp from a roll.....

I'm all for evos and believe me i would call bs if there was a need to...but this seems likely with the extra passengers in the evo and if it was a pre 05. The 03-04 put down 220-230awhp usually(lol mine was a freak and put 259 bonestock) and weigh 3300lbs.E36s put down a little over 200 i presume so with the added weight of the car plus the extra passengers i see this happening. If the evo was tuned i take back everything i said because they wake up big time.

Then explain how my Dinan M3 with 152k miles stayed dead even with a 2k mile 06 EVO? With both good drivers from a roll from 30 and highway from 65.

Because you have mods

Sounds like a good run. I'm not going to invent excuses but if you saw a puff of carbon out of the Evo's exhaust then he probably didn't downshift either, which doesn't take anything away from you. He couldn't have done any better from 4th. Just under 80mph is sort of a weird spot on these Evos. It's too high of an RPM for a downshift to 4th and too low of an RPM for an instant punch on the boost in 5th.

As far as performance, the Evo's 1st through 4th gears make performance sense. They are tuned perfectly to the engine's powerband. That's why they're nasty little cars from 0-115mph. But 5th gear is sorta like the common sense highway gear. There's a huge gap in gear ratio between 4th and 5th. If 5th was geared progressively (like 2nd is to 1st and 3rd is to 2nd) then these Evos would be churning about 4k RPM's at 75mph. Not practical.

You've have some nice cars. It sounds like the M3 pulls harder than the S2000. How does the handling of the two cars compare? Just curious. I've always loved what the S2K can do on a track but at 6'3" 230lbs my poops barely fit in the car. I've never had a chance to drive one. :(

at highway speeds there is nothing like an inline six. it just pulls so hard. of course my 323 gets left by my dads 400hp evo but i could see how atock m3 would stay even with a stock eveo. that torque is a savior

To Steiner:
Yeah, I am lucky enough to have some pretty neat little cars in my life so far. Both of which I really love, each for different reasons. The M3 pulls much harder than the S2000; the lack of torque on the bottom end of that little 2.0 litre engine make it sort of a dog below about 5500 rpm, however when you are above that and hit VTEC, it is a whole different ball game. I had my little brother run me in the S2000 against the M3 and, from a dig to about 100, it was pretty close.

As for handling, they are actually pretty comparable. The E36 M3 is known worldwide for its perfect 50/50 weight distribution, unbelievable stopping ability, and overall handling prowess. However, when driving the S2000, you really do feel like you are driving a go kart. It sticks to the road, and it feels like, no matter how hard you push it through the twisties, it will never let go. That being said, the S2000 is much newer and only has about 40k on the clock. My M3 has over 100k, but my first mod in store for the summer after school gets out is to totally refresh the suspension. All new polyurethane bushings, rear shock mounts, and bilstein sports with H&R springs. After that is done, I am sure that the real handling ability of the car will become apparent, and I think it might pass up the S2000 in that category.

All in all, both great cars, but really, you just can't beat the M3.

All in all, both great cars, but really, you just can't beat the M3.Sure you can! With an EVO!;)

Then explain how my Dinan M3 with 152k miles stayed dead even with a 2k mile 06 EVO? With both good drivers from a roll from 30 and highway from 65.

One thing you have to remember also:

The person could have something wrong with his car.

I have never run into an Evo yet that didn't have some kind of boost leak. Even stock.

A lot of times people start modding their cars and never pay attention to the upkeep of their cars.

Even a minor boost leak can degrade the performance by quite a bit.

I routinely perform boost leak checks on my car.

I'm not calling BS. I'm just stating my personal experience.

Good Kill

[QUOTE=Steiner;8206870]Sounds like a good run. I'm not going to invent
excuses but if you saw a puff of carbon out of the Evo's exhaust then he probably didn't downshift either, which doesn't take anything away from you. He couldn't have done any better from 4th. Just under 80mph is sort of a weird spot on these Evos. It's too high of an RPM for a downshift to 4th and too low of an RPM for an instant punch on the boost in 5th.

I think they were talking about the m3 dropping into 4th at 80mph, were the
s50 does pull pretty good. Btw i have run a stock evo with my old cammed 95 m3, and i walked it pretty hard. Not saying evo's are slow, as a matter of fact i wouldnt mind it being my next car. :D

Maybe cause the person calling BS has some sense in his head.....and can see that there is no way that two cars weighing about the same and one having about 25 more hp kept even with the one with less hp from a roll.....

And? Is the truth going to come out of it? No.

So just skip it and go to the next thread.

Yes Yes. I had this same experience with this evo8 sneezing behind me on the I95 in NY a few months back. And let me tell you something, I took him up to 140 and the car could not keep up. My 4th and 5th Gears killed him. It was like it ran out of steam up top. That 4 banger was working very hard.

Hardly. The AWD hs nothing to do with it. The psi dropping 4-5lbs the last 1-1.5K of the revband does. Hold 20lbs at redline=no more poor highway performance.

Funny how all AWD cars have lower trap speeds than their ETs suggest. C4s, 911TTs, RS4s, etc. And dyno less than an RWD version. AWD has a lot to do with it.

A stock Evo on the hwy will get pulled by an E46 and slightly edge an E36. Story holds up.

nice kill

My only run from a stop was against an evo, a friend of a friend. He said he had intake, exhaust, cams and a tune and that he ran 12.1 on race gas and 12.6 on pump... He took me by 1/2 a car(my mirror was on his bumper when we passed the line according to onlookers) but I was gaining fast:devillook. God bless Dinan superchargers and having 330 whp. I can't wait til spring and some nice sticky tires rather then all seasons!

hahaha, i love your sig.

Also, in the AWD vs RWD highway debate, a great example that everyone could experience would be to drive an e30 325i up to 120, then a 325ix. The IX stops its pull at 95, feels like it has died. The 325i, while not fast, is consistently pulling up to 120.

Go test drive (probably some for sale nearby) both of those, you'll feel the difference.

the weight is what hurt that evo for sure.

fella's this guy just said he kept up with the Evo, he never said he killed it.

I am pleasantly surprised to see that there isn't too much BS flag raising going on here. I think that M3Chaser put it perfectly, I kept up with an Evo at high speeds when he had two people in the car. I didn't beat it, nor did he beat me. I am just happy with how my car performed. I wouldn't want anything else sitting in my garage, faster or not.

hey, just as a side note, I just fixed my sig pic to be the right size, how do I go about getting it re-enabled?

However, in closing, I just want to comment on how happy I am that these engines, the S50 and the S52, pull so hard all the way to redline. It is an unrelenting barrage of torque and, after driving an S2000 for all of high school, going to a car with more grunt is a very nice change. I love these cars, and I can't wait to get the Conforti package and the stromung exhaust, to make this car even more peppy than it already is.

Actually the US spec M3s are fairly power robbed up top. They do not have
the right stuff to breathe properly. The torque curve falls off a bunch
at the top. If you put the earlier version intake manifold and a cam
you will get a bit more grunt. It's not too hard to approach 300 bhp
with that engine, NA and it will hold up well in the 400 bhp range and
beyond with forced induction.

And I'm with the guys that say "wind it up" more often. Its an M3.
Its bulletproof. Unless you overrev it on a downshift or run out of oil,
you're not going to hurt it.

Enjoy your car!!!!

yeah, well I have a 95, so I have the M50 mani, so mine has a very nice flat torque curve up top. No power robbing from me!

Yea I have a 95 as well and it gets more powerful the higher I rev it of course I have the upgrades listed in my sig.

Yes Yes. I had this same experience with this evo8 sneezing behind me on the I95 in NY a few months back. And let me tell you something, I took him up to 140 and the car could not keep up. My 4th and 5th Gears killed him. It was like it ran out of steam up top. That 4 banger was working very hard. I thought u had a F/I m3?

I used to think most if not all evo's were slow on the HWY, until I ran across 1 guy with 3 passengers, 1 dude, two hot chicks (about 95 pounds each).. In a white 04,05 EVO, sweet as hell looking car in white... anyways we were both coming from racetrack, neither of us seen each other there for some odd reason, we hit it on a 2 lane HWY and fireball shot from his exhaust, and CONTINUED TO STAY LIT for about 7 seconds (especially on de-accel, solid flame), I though his bumper was gonnna melt... heheeh and yes all I seen was bumper.. I was at 17PSI on the SRT, EVO at 21PSI (evo had fuel pump upgrade and flash) so it was a monster, I thought he was gonna get pwned... hehehe taught me, NOT lol anyway he pulled approx 1.5-2 cars from 60-85, both on stock turbo.. after runs we pulled intop Wendy's parking lot, he used to have an SRT-4 traded it in for evo, I guess he knew of a few good tricks.


By the way there were 2 people in the srt, approx 480 pounds worth..

This thread sucks

This thread sucksYour car is slowwww! Yellow Evo's r slowwww!

damn...so many butthurt people show up anytime an evo doesnt walk the car in question. Bone stock evo's are nothing from 80mph+ rolls so why raise a bs flag? On top of that the guy had an extra 300lbs which is like losing 30hp give or take. So lets say a bone stock evo more than likely that already isnt impressive from 80+ with about a 15-20hp deficit (compared to a stock 1 passenger evo due to weight). VERY likely outcome if you stop and think about it sensibly.

I was cruising along in my stock 1995 M3. I have only had one race in the car since I got it. I don't like to beat on my car; I have taken it to redline only twice and even then it was like 6600,

You have only taken your car to redline twice in 100k miles?

Sucks to be you man.

damn...so many butthurt people show up anytime an evo doesnt walk the car in question. Bone stock evo's are nothing from 80mph+ rolls so why raise a bs flag? On top of that the guy had an extra 300lbs which is like losing 30hp give or take. So lets say a bone stock evo more than likely that already isnt impressive from 80+ with about a 15-20hp deficit (compared to a stock 1 passenger evo due to weight). VERY likely outcome if you stop and think about it sensibly.Did you read whole thread or just the first 2 or 3 posts? :rolleyes

Did you read whole thread or just the first 2 or 3 posts? :rolleyes

I skipped a little over the drivel that you keep talking about... Stuff like...



As far as performance, the Evo's 1st through 4th gears make performance sense. They are tuned perfectly to the engine's powerband. That's why they're nasty little cars from 0-115mph.

Look, I have a friend with a rather stock 03 evo that runs A Stock, and guess what? The car is slow enough that he gets beaten by 3100# no gas/no driver, 290 rwhp mustangs all day -- from a 30mph roll.

That isnt fast, thats slow. These are 13 second mustangs from a roll, and that isnt fast at all. I have a friend with a N/A 2.4L Neon that can run those times on street tires.


from a But 5th gear is sorta like the common sense highway gear. There's a huge gap in gear ratio between 4th and 5th. If 5th was geared progressively (like 2nd is to 1st and 3rd is to 2nd) then these Evos would be churning about 4k RPM's at 75mph. Not practical.Alot of cars with 3.1x final drive (transmission*rear end) end up ~4000 rpm. I fail to see what is the big deal about it, you have a 2.0L -- who cares. The M3 regularly gets driven on the highway @ 4000 rpm, and it has over a liter on the evo, not a big deal.

I know people with 4.56 rear gears in 99-01 cobras that regularly deal with 3500+ rpm highway, and they have nearly 5 liters...


You've have some nice cars. It sounds like the M3 pulls harder than the S2000. S2000s are slow, under 5500rpm they have nothing. What was it, 16+ seconds 0-60 if you shift @ 5500 rpm? Now a stock 1995 M3 is also slow, but it does not suck below ~5500rpm. The curbweight of a S2K is nearly as much as an M3, so weight isnt really an issue. (how a S2K weighs in @ 2950 is anyones guess)

This isnt complicated, the M3 is geared very well and has a huge powerband that does not drop off, but honestly saying that you didnt even drop 4th and you won seems to imply that he didnt drop from 5th either and just had crappy gearing and boost issues.

A bone-stock 03 evo isnt fast or amazing, not saying that a stock 1995 M3 is either, but I could see the m3 with just better gearing and no boost issues to deal with.

m. Already going 80, I floored it in 5th gear and went to the right. HeSee anything important here? 80mph is at least ~3500 rpm here, and not far away from 4000 -- and thats just the start speed.

there were, however, cars around and in front of us.that regresses back to around 125. Anyways, He didn't gain an inch on me through this high speed run. I could hear his exhaust and watched the carbon billow from his tail pipe when he shifted during the run,So, there was traffic ahead, the evo was not in front of you, and you were watching his exhaust? I know the m3 is slow enough to be booring, but I would hope that @ 125mph with traffic ahead of you that you might be looking at something more important than the exhaust of the car alongside/behind you? How can you even pretend to see that as a driver in the left lane?

Mabye the Evo driver missed 5th?

I skipped a little over the drivel that you keep talking about... Stuff like...



Look, I have a friend with a rather stock 03 evo that runs A Stock, and guess what? The car is slow enough that he gets beaten by 3100# no gas/no driver, 290 rwhp mustangs all day -- from a 30mph roll.

That isnt fast, thats slow. These are 13 second mustangs from a roll, and that isnt fast at all. I have a friend with a N/A 2.4L Neon that can run those times on street tires.

Alot of cars with 3.1x final drive (transmission*rear end) end up ~4000 rpm. I fail to see what is the big deal about it, you have a 2.0L -- who cares. The M3 regularly gets driven on the highway @ 4000 rpm, and it has over a liter on the evo, not a big deal.

I know people with 4.56 rear gears in 99-01 cobras that regularly deal with 3500+ rpm highway, and they have nearly 5 liters...

S2000s are slow, under 5500rpm they have nothing. What was it, 16+ seconds 0-60 if you shift @ 5500 rpm? Now a stock 1995 M3 is also slow, but it does not suck below ~5500rpm. The curbweight of a S2K is nearly as much as an M3, so weight isnt really an issue. (how a S2K weighs in @ 2950 is anyones guess)

This isnt complicated, the M3 is geared very well and has a huge powerband that does not drop off, but honestly saying that you didnt even drop 4th and you won seems to imply that he didnt drop from 5th either and just had crappy gearing and boost issues.

A bone-stock 03 evo isnt fast or amazing, not saying that a stock 1995 M3 is either, but I could see the m3 with just better gearing and no boost issues to deal with.

See anything important here? 80mph is at least ~3500 rpm here, and not far away from 4000 -- and thats just the start speed.

So, there was traffic ahead, the evo was not in front of you, and you were watching his exhaust? I know the m3 is slow enough to be booring, but I would hope that @ 125mph with traffic ahead of you that you might be looking at something more important than the exhaust of the car alongside/behind you? How can you even pretend to see that as a driver in the left lane?

Mabye the Evo driver missed 5th?

Was your girlfriend in the car when the Evo beat you? It sounds like it still stings a little. My condolences.

:rofl2

Was your girlfriend in the car when the Evo beat you? It sounds like it still stings a little. My condolences.

No, your girlfriend was with me when the evo lost. :eek:

Uh, nice job ruining the thread with an awesome arguement. Jesus.


Nice run, great to hear you held even with him. I have a similar plan regarding my suspension, I think it is still stock and unreplaced since 1996. I love it when people dont maintain their cars.

At least you have a s50, I am rolling with my m44, weaksauce indeed.

No, your girlfriend was with me when the evo lost. :eek:

Terrible comeback. You=teh lose

Did you read whole thread or just the first 2 or 3 posts? :rolleyes

are you an idiot...? There are 3-4 calling bs or saying there's no way it could beat it so wtf are you talking about? Try reading, left to right top to bottom..group words together to make sentences.

And smart guy..no one called bs on the first 2-3 posts :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes more like bottom of first page and part of 2nd page. all the "there's no way and arrrr i crush e46m3's now" lol..where did all you tools show up from?

are you an idiot...? There are 3-4 calling bs or saying there's no way it could beat it so wtf are you talking about? Try reading, left to right top to bottom..group words together to make sentences.

And smart guy..no one called bs on the first 2-3 posts :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes more like bottom of first page and part of 2nd page. all the "there's no way and arrrr i crush e46m3's now" lol..where did all you tools show up from?How did a simple "yes" or "no" question turn into that? All I was trying to find out is if you caught the tail end of the thread where things were being discussed. Congratulations on sounding like an angry a-hole though. And Merry Christmas too ya fricken newb. :stickoutt

the nicest cars in my High school parking lot is an E36 M3 and an EVO - it's cool to see them put head to head

the nicest cars in my High school parking lot is an E36 M3 and an EVO - it's cool to see them put head to head


High School?

Silverspoon Central, we have a Winner!!!!!

Oy.