Ok Guys. This is cool. I just got done tuning Jeff Rosen's SC M3.
Over the weekend I installed the RMS Aftercooler Kit and the RMS 8-rib 10lb Pulley set. This car is SO SO Fast. For car details you can go to my Site. http://www.siastuning.com/customersbmw.htm

The Dyno runs from before Tec3 to today.

is that rwhp? Or is it crank hp?

whats the air/fuel look like?

Originally posted by Mitch P.
is that rwhp? Or is it crank hp?


RWHP.

Man, you blink and first gear is gone......even second must fly as well...you could probably start off in 3rd gear...Mmmmazing car!

Holy sh*t! RWHP? Does the clutch have the magic pixie dust on it? How does it survive?

Eugene

Notice the peak torque is only a hair over 300, the engine just breathes and runs very nicely on top. - Beau

Originally posted by eclou
Holy sh*t! RWHP? Does the clutch have the magic pixie dust on it? How does it survive?

Eugene

I did notice that - this is what originally confused me. Cool!

Vic,

Congrats with these results. Any other plans with this car? It's breathing so well... are you considering beefing up the valvetrain and raising the redline some? - Beau

How does the A/F look?

The Clutch is a Dinan stage2 Heavy duty with thier lightwieght Flywheel, seams to work well.

The AFR is good. But it looks like we need to up the fuel volume. I will be adding the second fuel pump to car soon (for handling purpuses) and that mite help. But more than likely he will have to go with a bigger fuel rail and line. But the car has a more than safe fuel curve.

We are talking about doing solid lifters and messaging the ports. Extrone honing the Schrick. Change back the rearend to 3.23 (3.73 is WAY to short with this much HP). etc.....

I think Jeff is going to be at Laguna in Feb for a track day.:buttrock

A Dinan Stage 2 clutch is an E34 M5 Sach Sport clutch. Probably good to at least 450 ft/lbs torque. Heavy clutch, I hated mine! Please communicate this to him when so when he needs a replacement he doesn't have to take it up the the ass from Dinan. - Beau

Thanks Beau! I am trying to help him spend money more wisely. Some of guys at Dinan are very cool (I worked there for a short time) but in general the prices are HIGH.

Here is the AFR from the last to runs.

BTW these dyno runs are all from a DynoJet and I happen to have the Winpep7 software.

FWIW, the RMS aftercooler appears to be quite effective reducing charge air temps. There was a 20 degree Cel. drop in intake temps at 10psi vs. the earlier 6psi datalog intake temps.

I got a chance to check out the car today. Wow. Awesome. The sound of that thing at WOT is insane. I want! He really needs to yank out the diff and get some taller gearing in there. I think that's going to happen this weekend. That dyno was in 5th gear!

I was looking at those power numbers, and no doubt, 400 rwhp is pretty awsome on this car. Ive been thinking about whether or not I wanted to try some thing like this TecIII tuning on my car. But since I think Im getting about the most out of it that I can with the given HFM and injectors, a SW tuning episode would naturally require hardware upgrades to boot. By and large, Im very happy with 345 rwhp for my mostly road use anyway. But still, I was curious....was it the Tec III alone which is giving him 50 more rwhp than Im seeing? So I went to Vic's web page to find out. When I saw that this 400 hp car has, in addition to the SW tuning, Cams, 500 cc injectors, Shrick Manifold, Headers, and more, well, I didnt feel so bad! I think that the Tec III is a good way to allow the added hardware to function optimally, and if Vic werent in Cal and I werent in NY, we might be able to get together!

I used to have a 944 Turbo and there was a guy on the Rennlist ("TurboTim"...now works at Huntley Racing?) that had the TecII on his 944 Turbo. He was putting out VERY impressive numbers.

If you have all the hardware you can get, electronic engine management like TecIII or Motec is the way to get the most power.

Wes
'95 M3

Paul,

I suppose you haven't noticed this, but previously Vic mentioned he would be putting together plug 'n play TEC-III kits.

With such there really is no software limitation and some nagging hardware limitations would be fixed. Your HFM is gone and I imagine the kit would come with the appropriate injectors for your end power goal. Tuning is easy and I'm sure Vic would provide a nice/safe baseline map. With just the addition of RMS intercooler you surely could get over 400 rwhp... with a compression drop of a couple points in the high 400s (restricted by rev limit of the blower)... and with significant headwork you may top out well over 500 rwhp. You might also need another injector stage at that point or have to deal with a high idle, but well - as you can see the sky's nearly the limit once you've removed the restriction of the factory engine management. Your main concern in getting more hp is finding ways to push more air through the engine. - Beau

Can the TEC3 work with any type (Likely Ford) of MAF Beau\Vic?... I'm sold on the aftermarket thing, just not a fan of MAP sensors.

HI Beau,

>> suppose you haven't noticed this, but previously Vic mentioned he would be putting together plug 'n play TEC-III kits. <<

Youre right...I never saw that. But if its true, then its the first attempt Ive seen that someone is making toward a dream I had a while ago. That dream basically was that given our basic setups, some tuner would develop perhaps between 3 and 6 kits representing the most popular power increase pathways many of us have taken. For instance, one kit might address Supercharged M3 owners who want to achieve, say 380 - 400 rwhp. Now Ive already done the pulley boost, so Id be looking for a kit which would include injectors, HFM or a replacement, a fuel pump only if necessary, and of course the holy grail, the software component. In this case, it would be handled by the Tec III. But since the pulley bump is currently making up to 11 psi, the only hardware needed would be the injectors, although, the current ones almost are up to the task. Theyre way rich right up to 6000 rpms. Too rich really. And theyre only very marginally lean and only right at redline, and its because of the hfm max causing not enough fuel to be ordered up.. So its borderline. I think the bigger problem has been teh hfm which maxes out at near 6K rpms.

>>Your HFM is gone <<

By that, do you mean the Tec III system is going to replace the HFM with a MAP type of sensor instead? I wonder, do we lose any resolution by making the switch? I mean, the industry must have gone from MAP to MAF for some reason or other.... Dont want to throw the baby out with the bath water, although in this case, Im sure it doesnt matter much.

I'll be looking for news of this. Thanks for the tip.

nice #'s...gonna have to drop by the shop sometime and check out the facility!

I have no idea if the TEC-III can accept a MAF. You can find info here 'http://www.electromotive-inc.com/'.

I personally am a fan of a MAP sensor for high boost applications. I'll list what I believe are the strengths of both

MAP
- More consistent accuracy over a wide operating range
- Removes the danger of vacuum leaks causing catastrophic engine damage from going too lean
- Easier to program conceptually for the novice end user
- Since it works off a vacuum signal there is no device in the intake path causing extra turbulence/restriction

MAF
- More accurate/precise over a narrow operating range.
- Easier to program to keep in line with changes in the environment.
- Easier to get better fuel economy due to the prior two reasons.

- Beau

Thanks Beau. You said exactly what I was thinking on Maps and MAf's. As far As I know Electromotive went away from MAF and thay only use MAP sensors now. I had this map/maf dicussion with an ex-Dinan Engineer (he does some work on Jeff Rosen's M3) before I installed the Tec3 on this SC car. He was skepital of the map sensor untill he drove the car and saw the Dyno numbers.

Paul e- I do have the Plug&Plays kit for sale on a per order basis. It is really cool, just remove the stock ECU and plug in My Tec3 with a Map sensor a Idle motor and start the car. ;-) After that you can fly me out to "Fine" tune the car for you. I guess I need to clarify on my website all the Dyno runs from Jeff's car. The car gained 50 hp from the Tec3, Schirck manifold, and 500cc injectors. The car all ready had the superspring euro header/exhaust and DynoSpot cams and this is all on the stock Dinan boost 6.5lbs pulley. Then the 10lb RMS pulleys and Aftercooler add another 50hp.

I will be installing a Tec3 on a M3 that has a built motor and RMS's SC 14lb boost, aftercool, and waterinjection. I can't wait to see the Hp on that one.

zenon - Yes the Tec3 can work on almost any 1,2,3,4,6,8,12 cylinder car or thing.

Vic,

Is it possible to run the factory coils instead of running the TEC coils?

I see Jim O's car is setup with the TEC coils but some others arent.

Any advantage/disadvantages from going either route?

Also, just curious, how much do you charge for your plug and play wiring harness?

I have a question regarding the TEC 3. From my understanding its non adaptive, which means you need to fine tune it a lot. So, does that mean say I tune the car at a particular temperature that day, at a partucluar sea level, and have it all perfect that day. Well lets say another days comes and conditions are different, do I hae to fine tune it again. BAsically, do I have to fine tune the car every time the weather changes or I drive to a different area or state?

Thanks vic.
It's just that my daily driver is MAF and my dad's car has the same motor with MAP and I've become utterly OBSESSED with MAF's for daily around town driving. Shifting I don't need no stinkin' shifting, leave it in OD @ 60k's and give her 1/4 throttle and wait... In a few seconds you're hurtling along at a 120k's no effort, just torque.. The MAP motor won't do that, it always wants to go down into Drive, OD is for cruising only... It just refuses to accelerate in OD below 100k's:(

Since Ford MAF's (not sure about others) have a linear transer function (ie:signal voltage per lb air) @ the lower end, becoming exponential at the higher end, would it be possible to wire in a Ford MAF in the the TP input and use the TP/MAP idle smoothing feature?

Here's what I meant Vic.
http://www.flash.net/~rfm2/mafcha1.jpg

Zenon, is this an actual mapping? Im confused then. Ive taken many MAF readings with my scantool. Ive found that my stock HFM maxes just shy of 6000 rpms. The scantool which measures lbs/min airflow through the HFM measures 23.09 lbs/min at that 6000 rpm level, and the signal stays there right to redline. Now we know the HFM maxes out at near 5 volts, so, we can make the mapping that approx 5V = 23 lbs/min airflow. Converting to units in your chart, this equates to 5V = 515 kg/hr. On your chart, 515 kg is reached at about 4.3 volts. On my car, its reached at approx 5 volts which is reached near 6000 rpms, and where it flatlines from there to redline. Any idea why the difference between my tested values and those found in your chart? What's the chart from? Notice the steep acceleration in airflow between 4 and 5 volts!

Yes, this is an actual Ford MAF transfer function, you could make your own if you took various maesurements of voltage and mass air flow Paul.

Although the steep acceleration of slope between 4 and 5v makes this area non linear (up until 2.1 volts it's linear) as long as there was enough resolution, I still think you could tune that as a TP sensor with some clever wiring;)

I guess my re-phrased question for vic is: When you use the TP for the TP MAP blending does the TP signal affect ANYTHING once you are "out of TP blended territory" and into "pure MAP territory"?

This MAF has a different transfer function than yours Paul, this would likely be the same reason a Euro MAF would give you more metered air w/o breaching the 5v limit.