What I think can be an important thing to know:

Had a conversation the other day with a guy on here who PM'd me with pics of his convertible.

Well, to make a long story short, I had to make it clear to him he doesn't have the rear extendable roll over bars.

He assumed they were underneath the plastic behind the rear seatbelt plastics. (Obviously there is no show of a "breakaway" pannel I told him, so I asked did you think it would come right through the trim?).

So just in case people here assume they rear passengers are protected when they would in the worst case flip over, that is NOT the case.

So to make clear:

http://www.idon-industries.com/bimmer/rolloverbars.jpg

If you don't have these protruding covers (that cover the top of the rollbars), you don't have them. That's it.

To make it even more clear that it's not stock:

1: Check BMW's option list:

http://www.e38.org/OptionCodes.pdf (http://www.e38.org/OptionCodes.pdf)

Option #134 Rollover Protection System.

2: Y'all will probably know REALOEM.com.

Here's the page containing the Roll Over system:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...& hg=54&fg=20 (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BK71&mospid=47421&btnr=54_0183&hg=54&fg=20)

Pay special attention to the first sentence:

"CANNOT BE RETROFITTED"

Well, you have to agree with me, if ALL converts had these from stock, why would they tell you they can't be retrofitted? Exactly!

SOME countries MIGHT had them installed, because of laws that require such a system. But which ones that would be I don't know.

Very important option to have. When I was looking for my car the only thing I looked for was a stick shift with the rollover protection. Everything else including the color was secondary.

Very important option to have. When I was looking for my car the only thing I looked for was a stick shift with the rollover protection. Everything else including the color was secondary.

A wise man.

I will not even go into my must-have list (unless people are really curious) but let me just say I was asking for the impossible.

All in all, it took me 2 years (and in the meantime I could save up for a better example at the same time) to find an unmolested one with ALL it must have (and even more that I didn't even know at the time existed). (e36's have a bad reputation because of the kind of people who usually buy these. In the UK they are called Chavs, don't know the US slang for them).

Let me just say I am a very happy man since I found my dream car.

LOL at the chavs.

I have those protruding covers but cannot remove the headrests as instructed in the manual. I can't even adjust it like the front ones. I'm not sure why. Cannot even remove those plastic covers, I just want to verify that they are there in case I needed.

So just in case people here assume they rear passengers are protected when they would in the worst case flip over, that is NOT the case.

So to make clear:

If you don't have these protruding covers (that cover the top of the rollbars), you don't have them. That's it.

To make it even more clear that it's not stock:

I have those protruding covers but cannot remove the headrests as instructed in the manual. I can't even adjust it like the front ones. I'm not sure why. Cannot even remove those plastic covers, I just want to verify that they are there in case I needed.

If you have the plastic covers then you have them. IIRC, there should be a little rollover protection icon on the dash that will light up when you start the car as the rollover protection goes through a safety check (like the airbags do).

The plastic covers are glued on and should not come off. The rear headreast do not tilt like the front ones, but they should come off with a good tug straight up.

Well my vert appears not to have them, guess im pretty much dead in a rollover :(

Nah, you'll likely live as long as you are wearing your seatbelt. The windshield frame is supposedly reinforced on the Vert's, so it won't flatten out on a rollover. If it wasn't, the rear rollover protection couldn't be very effective, would it? Draw an imaginary line between the top of the windsheild and the rear edge of the top of the trunk and that's the area (minus a few inches for tweaking) of protection provided. The Rollover protection feature is really more for rear seat passengers than for the driver, but it still helps.

Well my vert appears not to have them, guess im pretty much dead in a rollover :(
I don't have them either. See you in hell....LOLhttp://images.bimmerforums.com/vb3images/icons/icon12.gif

Well my vert appears not to have them, guess im pretty much dead in a rollover :(

Only your mates will be, not you ;)

I have those protruding covers but cannot remove the headrests as instructed in the manual. I can't even adjust it like the front ones. I'm not sure why. Cannot even remove those plastic covers, I just want to verify that they are there in case I needed.

I think my rear headrests were never removed before. Still haven't managed to do so.

They need a very heavy pull! (they also hold the rear backrests in place).

If you have the humps you have rollovers, 100%, period, fact, end.

...The windshield frame is supposedly reinforced on the Vert's,...

That is correct, as per all convertibles.

This is also the reason a semi-auto hood cannot be changed to a fully-auto hood.

The locking mechnism on top of the A-frame is different and part of the structure.

This would mean cutting/grinding/welding off the A-frame and weld on one from a fully-auto hood.

This will render the safety structure useless immidiatley. (and probably an automatic Total Loss of your car and void all waranty (if left)).

When I first got the car, there was no bulb in the little rollover protection instrument light. I just added it. It's possible that they took the bulb out because it was on. I swapped the essential bulbs and other holes without bulbs, such as the rear fog and rollover. I'll find out this weekend whether the light is on for the rollover bars.
If you have the plastic covers then you have them. IIRC, there should be a little rollover protection icon on the dash that will light up when you start the car as the rollover protection goes through a safety check (like the airbags do).

The plastic covers are glued on and should not come off. The rear headreast do not tilt like the front ones, but they should come off with a good tug straight up.

I must be getting old because I can't get those headrests to come off. I'm afraid of exerting too much force and breaking them. Any other ways?
but they should come off with a good tug straight up.

Just don't race with the dang thing, and stay away from cliffs :eek:
Well my vert appears not to have them, guess im pretty much dead in a rollover :(

dieseldriver, I'd still like to check out your car in person sometime since we're so close.

-Al.

I figure it was either "Al" or "Andrew", well, I was close. Yeah, we should set something up soon, can't drive it though, I have not registered it yet. Just sitting in the garage looking pretty and itching me to drive it.

LOL ok no problem then. Mondays Tuesdays Thursdays and Sundays work best for me, so we'll set something up soon.

very cosy ;)

... I'll find out this weekend whether the light is on for the rollover bars.

This is the checklight. So it could be they don't work, but you will have them :)

I must be getting old because I can't get those headrests to come off. I'm afraid of exerting too much force and breaking them. Any other ways?

I was thinking maybe a circlip holds them in, but since you can't get there without taking them off....

Just make sure the roof is down when you try :D

It's just like the gearknob. Can be on very snugly!

It's what makes German cars unique, it brings Americans together? Or the other way around...whatever... hmm.
very cosy ;)

I don't have them either :-/ Does anyone know if the hardtop helps in the event of a rollover?

Do you want to stop by next Sunday?
dieseldriver, I'd still like to check out your car in person sometime since we're so close.

-Al.

In my mind, it should. But I'm not sure if the roll is really bad, it might come off the hinges, which may perhaps cause more damage to the driver and passengers than if it wasn't there.

When I had a Z3, it had a fixed rollover protection bars. Again, I believe these were optional. I leased it though, so, I didn't really pay for them.

You most likely can retrofit the permanent one, you;d most likely want them to be welded to the frame with reinforcements. I'm sure it can be better than the factory one. Take a look at this picture of the Z3 I had (same color), this one had that triangular rollover protection bar.
I don't have them either :-/ Does anyone know if the hardtop helps in the event of a rollover?

I don't have them either :-/ Does anyone know if the hardtop helps in the event of a rollover?

The hardtop is from aluminium.

I don't dare putting money on it, but alu isn't the strongest although it will be a better protector than a piece of canvas.

Steel rollover bars obvisouly are the proper solution and it's strange BMW didn't fit these on all cars!

Aluminum is strong until it is bent, once it reaches the maximum breaking point, it becomes much weaker than steel alloy.
The hardtop is from aluminium.

I don't dare putting money on it, but alu isn't the strongest although it will be a better protector than a piece of canvas.

Steel rollover bars obvisouly are the proper solution and it's strange BMW didn't fit these on all cars!

I must be getting old because I can't get those headrests to come off. I'm afraid of exerting too much force and breaking them. Any other ways?

I have the same issue...I had 2 reload my roll top protection once & it helps if the rear headrest were off, but for 2 days straight I couldn't get those things off I just gave up cause I didn't want 2 accidentally break them & had a PITA time reloading the roll-protection bars @round them...:mad

You quoted one of my favorite movie character. One is Martin Riggs, and the other.. Maximus Maxiums Maximus!
I have the same issue...I had 2 reload my roll top protection once & it helps if the rear headrest were off, but for 2 days straight I couldn't get those things off I just gave up cause I didn't want 2 accidentally break them & had a PITA time reloading the roll-protection bars @round them...:mad

If you have rollover, there's an easy (vs. impossible) way to remove the headrests:

remove the plastic covers on the rollover bars. They pop right off. Then, use a pry bar under the headrest and leveraged off of the rollover bar. You'll be able to pop them right out this way.

Without rollover, I can't help. I could not "pull" them off any other way.

Bob

If you have rollover, there's an easy (vs. impossible) way to remove the headrests:

remove the plastic covers on the rollover bars. They pop right off. Then, use a pry bar under the headrest and leveraged off of the rollover bar. You'll be able to pop them right out this way.

Without rollover, I can't help. I could not "pull" them off any other way.

Bob

Hmm I'm not gonna try that procedure, although I still have a feeling that the rear headrests are locked in place by something. Could be as small as a circlip around one of the metal rods.

Also, I think the rollover covers are glued on?

Hmm I'm not gonna try that procedure, although I still have a feeling that the rear headrests are locked in place by something. Could be as small as a circlip around one of the metal rods.

Also, I think the rollover covers are glued on?

The covers are glued on. The covers have little tabs that are set into glue on the rollover bars. The tabs are pretty thin and will break fairly easy if you pry on the cover. The cover will fit pretty snug even when the tabs are broken. So you can remove the covers, but they will forever be detached from the bars. Not a big problem unless the rollover protection activates. Then they will fly into the air and land a good ways away from the car.

It's what makes German cars unique, it brings Americans together? Or the other way around...whatever... hmm.

Germans have been bringing Americans together since the early 40's!

the anti-roll bars can suddenly pop up through the rear window/softcopcanvas...... trust... if you roll you die... you get grounded down like carrot on shredding device!!!!! just drive localized.. not crazed!!!! autoX drivers you will NOT want THIS!!!!!

Having a roll bar made for my convertible this very moment--Hoping to take it to Laguna Seca with the local chapter of the bmw cca in a few weeks so I can stop abusing the family car (330zhp) and as you probably know, no verts at driver's schools without real roll bars (factory roll-over protection is not acceptable to most of the chapters in the us.)

I have them on my car, and I believe that all UK cars have them.

I have them on my car, and I believe that all UK cars have them.

Yes. Some countries-spec cars cars prolly have them all, because of laws that obligate verts to have some sort of overroll protection.

It seem that that is not the case for (among) US-spec cars.

Just purchased a 99 M3 vert and it has rollover protection luckily, and those rear headrests are hard as hell to get off. I wrestled with those things for the first time yesterday and finally got them to adjust after about 5 mins.

Two things, first. IF SOMEONE HAS AN AFTERMARKET ROLL BAR FOR THERE CAR PLEASE POST PHOTOS!!!

Second, to reset the roll bars, DON"T POP OFF ANYTHING OR REMOVE THE HEADRESTS!!!!!!! Just use a screw driver and push the little tab in (you'll see it, it;s a little tab just pres it in) then with it pushed in, lower the roll-ver bar with another hand and it will click back into place. VERY VERY VERY EASY!

Two things, first. IF SOMEONE HAS AN AFTERMARKET ROLL BAR FOR THERE CAR PLEASE POST PHOTOS!!!

Second, to reset the roll bars, DON"T POP OFF ANYTHING OR REMOVE THE HEADRESTS!!!!!!! Just use a screw driver and push the little tab in (you'll see it, it;s a little tab just pres it in) then with it pushed in, lower the roll-ver bar with another hand and it will click back into place. VERY VERY VERY EASY!

Your toolkit should have the special tool to "reset" the rollovers.

Just purchased a 99 M3 vert and it has rollover protection luckily, and those rear headrests are hard as hell to get off. I wrestled with those things for the first time yesterday and finally got them to adjust after about 5 mins.

Any tips on what you did exactly?

I'm still wrestling with mine and it looks like they have never come out, EVER.
I'm by no means the strongest man on earth, but I'm pretty strong the least, but no way I can get the rear headrests to pop out.

If I knew how they are retained, I might have an idea to "tilt" them to the front or back for example.

Any tips on what you did exactly?

I'm still wrestling with mine and it looks like they have never come out, EVER.
I'm by no means the strongest man on earth, but I'm pretty strong the least, but no way I can get the rear headrests to pop out.

If I knew how they are retained, I might have an idea to "tilt" them to the front or back for example.

Unfortunately I don't even know how I did it. I just went to check if I could do it again from inside the car with the hardtop on (since it's raining outside) and was able to adjust the one on the drivers side but not the other. I just kind of wiggled it side to side with a good amount of force and pulled it toward me with a little force while facing the front of the headrest and got it to come up. The other day when I got the rear headrest on the passenger side to adjust I had the top down and remember having to put it in a headlock-like move from above it and wiggling it around for a while, but I definitely got it to adjust eventually. I have a feeling it might not, but hopefully this helps you a little...just try not to hurt yourself! Haha.

Chris

Any tips on what you did exactly?

I'm still wrestling with mine and it looks like they have never come out, EVER.
I'm by no means the strongest man on earth, but I'm pretty strong the least, but no way I can get the rear headrests to pop out.

If I knew how they are retained, I might have an idea to "tilt" them to the front or back for example.

Mate if you are talking about getting the rear seats out it is easy.

1) Put the hood down this makes life loads easier.

2) Remove the rear centre pad that leads to the boot/ski hatch

3) Remove the seat base, just pull it up along the front edge and it will come out.

4) Now stand where the seat base should be and pull straight up on the head rests they may need a little wiggle.

5) Now pull the seat back forward, grab it at the top and the bottom and do one side at a time, make sure you pull the seat belts forward otherwise they may pin it in place.

I hope this makes sense and may help someone.

Mate if you are talking about getting the rear seats out it is easy......

Yeah the rear seat bases are a doddle to do. Love that system.

I know the rear backrests are too, but since the rear headrests lock them in place....

I don't have them either :-/ Does anyone know if the hardtop helps in the event of a rollover?

I couldn't track my '96 Z3 unless I had a Hardtop or roll bar and the '96 had no factory rollbars. I got an after market rollbar.
The hardtop does work as I have seen SCCA Spec Miata class that must have hardtops that have rolled and fared very well.

I couldn't track my '96 Z3 unless I had a Hardtop or roll bar and the '96 had no factory rollbars. I got an after market rollbar.
The hardtop does work as I have seen SCCA Spec Miata class that must have hardtops that have rolled and fared very well. That's good news!

[QUOTE=MParallel;8152465]What I think can be an important thing to know:

............
So to make clear:

http://www.idon-industries.com/bimmer/rolloverbars.jpg

If you don't have these protruding covers (that cover the top of the rollbars), you don't have them. That's it.

To make it even more clear that it's not stock:

1: Check BMW's option list:

http://www.e38.org/OptionCodes.pdf (http://www.e38.org/OptionCodes.pdf)

Option #134 Rollover Protection System.

2: Y'all will probably know REALOEM.com.

Here's the page containing the Roll Over system:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...& hg=54&fg=20 (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BK71&mospid=47421&btnr=54_0183&hg=54&fg=20)

QUOTE]

Great info- really helps. I did think that after 97 or in 98 all verts had some type of popup roll bar. Looking a pics of the M3 vert I'm buying I do see the rear humps throught the windows.

Thanks again.

yeah, if anybody's wondering, my car does NOT have rollover protection. You need the bars behind the rear headrests. No rear headrests = no rollover protection, period. They look like a PITA to retrofit to, though I'm sure it could be done with great effort. BMW sure as hell isn't going to retrofit them though.

Great info- really helps. I did think that after 97 or in 98 all verts had some type of popup roll bar. Looking a pics of the M3 vert I'm buying I do see the rear humps throught the windows.

Thanks again.

Thx. That's why I'm here ;). It's amazing how many people didn't know and just assumed because they have a vert is has a rollover mechanism.

Oh and to clearify: there's no "some type of popup roll bar". The one shown is the only e36 vert rollover protection system. Cars before 1994 over here (Euro) had these.

...look like a PITA to retrofit to, though I'm sure it could be done with great effort. BMW sure as hell isn't going to retrofit them though.

They're not a pita to retrofit.

They can't be retrofitted at all (see my original post) It's the 1st line and marked by a "!" that these can not be retrofitted. (see realoem, like is in my initial post)

Hey, folks in the East Coast, do we want to arrange a Meet sometime this year?
dieseldriver, I'd still like to check out your car in person sometime since we're so close.

-Al.

They're not a pita to retrofit.

They can't be retrofitted at all (see my original post) It's the 1st line and marked by a "!" that these can not be retrofitted. (see realoem, like is in my initial post)
they can be retrofitted, it would just take a lot of effort and a lot of knowledge.

+1 Anything is possible, it depends on how much $ you have and how much time you can spare!
they can be retrofitted, it would just take a lot of effort and a lot of knowledge.

Hey, folks in the East Coast, do we want to arrange a Meet sometime this year?
I'd like to do this too.

Hey, folks in the East Coast, do we want to arrange a Meet sometime this year?

That sounds like a great idea, but please make it after this month as I'll be really busy moving !!

Don't we want to do this when it's warm? So we can have the top down or up, depending on what kind of top you have? Also, do we bring Sam Adams or Spaten?:)
That sounds like a great idea, but please make it after this month as I'll be really busy moving !!

I don't drink so you can bring "whomever" you like. ;-) I'm fully booked every weekend until February :(

they can be retrofitted, it would just take a lot of effort and a lot of knowledge.

Yeah well...that means chopping the chassis and all. Sure ANYthing is possible if you throw enough money at it.

But I'm sure BMW doesn't state that for fun that they can't be retrofitted. I mean if they could sell them...


My guess is, it's the same with the semi to full-auto hood conversion. Yes, is physically possible, but since the different windshield frame is part of the chassis and functions as the front roll over bar, welding this off a car to fit a new one, renders the car total-loss instantly.

I'm sure it's the same with the rollovers. They needed to be factory fitted...

I bet you are a, uh, glass half empty kind of guy, am I right MParallel?

I bet you are a, uh, glass half empty kind of guy, am I right MParallel?

I think you're half full of it!

;)

No MParallel, I think you're a Classic, like Coke!

Are these really that common to flip? Has it happened to anyone on the forums?

Any vehicle can flip under the right conditions, so it's wise to have some sort of rollover protection. Usually it's when the car is run off the road and into and embankment or ditch. Just driving spiritedly will cause the car to slide rather than flip in almost every case.

According to Edmunds from 1997 traction control is standard and from 1998 side airbags are standard.

Also found here a news release stating that rollover protection is standard from 1997.
http://www.autoworld.com/bmw3series.htm

Is there a way to know whether a car has a rollover protection from the VIN number?

According to Edmunds from 1997 traction control is standard and from 1998 side airbags are standard.

Also found here a news release stating that rollover protection is standard from 1997.
http://www.autoworld.com/bmw3series.htm

Is there a way to know whether a car has a rollover protection from the VIN number?

Whoa there-- No need to go that far... YOu have it if you have 2 little bumps, maybe 10-12 inches long and 3 inches tall and wide running parallel to the rear head rests, and immediately behind them. Can't miss 'em.

Whoa there-- No need to go that far... YOu have it if you have 2 little bumps, maybe 10-12 inches long and 3 inches tall and wide running parallel to the rear head rests, and immediately behind them. Can't miss 'em.

Unfortunately I do not have the vert yet :( . The reason I am asking about the VIN is because my uncle's friend is a used car dealer and he can get cars for ridiculous prices from an auction. But the auction usually gives very limited info or pics so finding out through VIN would help a lot.

Seriously guys and girls, what's the odd of a car that flips during an accident? 1%, 5%, 10%, 20%? And what does the data from NHTSA says about 92-99 E36 BMW's in general about any kind of serious accidents? Only historical data can tell if you are likely to have a serious accident following the vehicle overturning. If you're talking about vehicle such as previous generation Ford Explorer, Aerostar, or even Econoline models, yeah, I'd say it would have higher percentage of either crashing on it's side or even getting flipped. But, I just can't picture an E36 flipping over.

glad i saw this im in the market for a vert now so was it an option that all years had or was it like a all models after 95 had them thing?

can u guys help me out with this real quick lookin to buy this vert but does it have roll bars
heres a pic looks like it but not sure. http://images.autotrader.com/images/2007/3/14/218/540/1770265083.218540385.IM1.03.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

can u guys help me out with this real quick lookin to buy this vert but does it have roll bars
heres a pic looks like it but not sure. http://images.autotrader.com/images/2007/3/14/218/540/1770265083.218540385.IM1.03.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

Yes, you can see the little humps behind the rear head rests.

glad i saw this im in the market for a vert now so was it an option that all years had or was it like a all models after 95 had them thing?

I was researching more on this and found another article that said it was standard on 328 in 1999 but still an option for 323 for same year. So yeah, look out for those "humps."

you would think that would come on all verts...o well at least know what to look out for now thnx guys def. feel more educated...

Wohoo I have them! I was told by a vert guy that works as a stealership mechanic that these will eject easy if you take the car fast over railroad tracks or basically make your car catch air. Anyone had this experience?

Wohoo I have them! I was told by a vert guy that works as a stealership mechanic that these will eject easy if you take the car fast over railroad tracks or basically make your car catch air. Anyone had this experience?

It does happen, but you really have to give the car a big jerk to do this.

It does happen, but you really have to give the car a big jerk to do this.

Actually seen it happen quite regularly at autocross on a very smooth surface. Now the guy is a teriffic driver ahd has tightened up the suspension a ton, but on hard autox corners he'll regularly pop a bar- (wish it slowed him down, so I'd have a chance to beat his times...)

Actually seen it happen quite regularly at autocross on a very smooth surface. Now the guy is a teriffic driver ahd has tightened up the suspension a ton, but on hard autox corners he'll regularly pop a bar- (wish it slowed him down, so I'd have a chance to beat his times...)

I see. Could it be some countries have a lower treshhold for the bars to pop up?

=( i dont have them either. how much do the hard tops go for?

=( i dont have them either. how much do the hard tops go for?

Anywhere from around $700 - $1200 depening in condition and opularity of color.

BTW I have noticed that the comment on the rollover bars "Can not be retrofitted" has been removed.

i still see the comment there. :dunno

i know that one guy retrofitted it without problems, so it probably shouldn't be there.

i still see the comment there. :dunno

i know that one guy retrofitted it without problems, so it probably shouldn't be there.

The bars are easy bolt-in items, but to wire up the sensors to all specific modules and all....


Where did you see it stil? RealOEM? That's old. In the lastest ETK it's no longer there unless my eyes went really bad.

Anywhere from around $700 - $1200 depening in condition and opularity of color.

BTW I have noticed that the comment on the rollover bars "Can not be retrofitted" has been removed.

depends, but yeah I have seem them from $900 to $1500

and I also saw the comment still there

The bars are easy bolt-in items, but to wire up the sensors to all specific modules and all....


Where did you see it stil? RealOEM? That's old. In the lastest ETK it's no longer there unless my eyes went really bad.

one guy that used to post here said he added them to his e36. i think it was a dakar 318 in portugal? i cant remember. he even tested them out somehow and they deployed perfectly.

oh, i was referring to the original post. it still says 'not for retrofitting' or whatever under the picture in teh first post.

...

oh, i was referring to the original post. it still says 'not for retrofitting' or whatever under the picture in teh first post.

Has yes, my original 1st post. Like I thought, that was before bmwfans and I still used RealOEM then It's not shown in the latest ETK anymore.

=( i dont have them either. how much do the hard tops go for?

A hardtop won't save you when it's removed... But then again, I seriously doubt the roll over bars would either... But they are nice to have.

A hardtop won't save you when it's removed... But then again, I seriously doubt the roll over bars would either... But they are nice to have.

You mean won't save you when fitted (as a substitute for the roll over bars).

The rollover bars DO work. It would be straight up bogus to design a safety system which would work, but is nice to have. To have for what then? Show?

That's just ridiculous. I wonder what makes you think they won't work. When the car flips over and on the bars, the bars will not collapse. Same goes for the windshield

A hardtop won't save you when it's removed... But then again, I seriously doubt the roll over bars would either... But they are nice to have.

really? i think they would definitely help. i think a car is definitely better off with them than without them. however, anything is possible and there are lots of ways a car can be damaged in an accident. i dont think they guarantee safety in a rollover accident, but i also think survival chances are a lot higher with them than without them.

as for hardtops, they wont save you when they are installed either. they contain zero structural supports or reinforcements.

....

as for hardtops, they wont save you when they are installed either. they contain zero structural supports or reinforcements.

Remove "either" from that sentence as it seems to refer to the rollover bars, which ARE structural reinforcements.

They are the difference between your passengers getting beheaded or not in case of a flip over.

What I meant was that even if the hardtops provided a lot of extra structural support, it wouldn't matter if you were driving around without one -- which we do often, considering it's the purpose of having these inherently less safe cars.

I'm sure the roll-over bars pop up quickly, and can support the cars weight, and I wouldn't have bought my vert if it had not come with a set... However, I think it's a bit naive to think they'd make all the much of a difference in a serious accident which would merit needing them.

A hardtop won't save you when it's removed...

as for hardtops, they wont save you when they are installed either.
Remove "either" from that sentence as it seems to refer to the rollover bars, which ARE structural reinforcements.

They are the difference between your passengers getting beheaded or not in case of a flip over.that is how i meant for it to be read.




I'm sure the roll-over bars pop up quickly, and can support the cars weight, and I wouldn't have bought my vert if it had not come with a set... However, I think it's a bit naive to think they'd make all the much of a difference in a serious accident which would merit needing them.

that's my opinion as well. nothing is a guarantee. if there was a way to guarantee accident survival in any solid-roofed car, never mind convertibles, im sure everyone would have heard about it by. extra precautions & measures dont hurt though.

No-one ever rides in the back of mine, so I really see no need for them, unless I grow a foot taller. It is extremely rare for these cars to flip anyway. If you have them, great, if not I don't think it's worth the money to retrofit them. IMHO.

:}

No-one ever rides in the back of mine, so I really see no need for them, unless I grow a foot taller. It is extremely rare for these cars to flip anyway. If you have them, great, if not I don't think it's worth the money to retrofit them. IMHO.

:}i agree with this. if i didn't have them but wanted them, i'd probably just get a different car before trying to retrofit them.

I have those protruding covers but cannot remove the headrests as instructed in the manual. I can't even adjust it like the front ones. I'm not sure why. Cannot even remove those plastic covers, I just want to verify that they are there in case I needed.

remove the back center boot lining. you can see them from there.

you could also try pressing and pulling on the back seat, as it is held in by the rear headrests and could be jammng them. they are stiff. plastic top covers can be pulled off. just give them a really good tug.