You knew it had to be adressed soon. I have spent countless hours searching in the main forum for information on the tensioning straps giving out in the convertible top and losing their elasticity. It seems as if actually replacing the straps will cost a whole lot of $$$ (80$ per strap with VERY long install)

The only promising thing I read was to retighten the rivets on the back bow of the top. I already located the rivets and it seems like it would be easy enough to retighten. BUT im not sure if this works at all ( I have the usual problem of the back bow of the top hiting the storage bin cover when lowering the top)

If anyone has any experience with this technique or it has worked for them speak up so we can see if its worth while

I am in the same shape. I dont want to pay for the labor because I think I may need a new top within a year or so. The stitching in my bow at the back is completely out. And the stitching on the other bows are starting to fray. It surprises me that the stitching is not better for the top. I can get the top, straps, and labor for about $1000 or so.

Hell, I'll go for it! I'm in the same boat as well. I'm just going for it! I'll drill the rivets and see what happens! How much higher should I re-rivet the strap to the back? Lets see if I can save us all alot of $$$$

What I did, rather than drilling out the rivets & re-riveting, was to fold up about 1/2" of the tension strap near the end (by the rivets) then tightly zip tie the folded section. I figured it would be easily reversible if it didn't work right.

This helped a lot, but I still need to address the tension strap between the bow over the rear window & the one forward of that. I saw a few messages about tying some bungee cord (without the metal ends) between the two bows to get some extra pull.

I know this is a jury-rigged solution, but my top is otherwise in excellent condition so I don't want to mess with it any more than I have to.

I actually don't have a problem reaching back and giving it a hand, but my wife & daughter do, so ...

Hell, I'll go for it! I'm in the same boat as well. I'm just going for it! I'll drill the rivets and see what happens! How much higher should I re-rivet the strap to the back? Lets see if I can save us all alot of $$$$
I read somewhere in the forum that around 7mm was a good amount of take-up on the straps when re-riveting.

I had mine replaced. but, what material are the straps made of? Wouldn't you be concerned about them being stretched to breaking point then snapping?

no the straps are made of a wide strap much like a seat belt but about half the width. The elastic part is just attached on to that so if the elastic starts giving out the top will just pull on the non-elastic part of the strap. There is really no worry about them breaking. I will go home today and try the zip-tie idea out and see how it works and inform u guys as soon as i can

Thanks! Take lots of pics.
-J

I have no ideas what the tension straps even look like (well, maybe an idea). Reaching back to give the top a little extra pull and clear the rear lid isn't a problem, it's that when the top descends into the bay, unless this 'band' (don't know what to call it) is curving out away from the car, it won't fit in the bay correctly which means the top retracts 1/2 way, I get out the car and make sure the band is facing the right way on both sides, get back in the car and finish the deal.

Also, the plastic rim around my window is coming off and I can't get it to stay on. I've tried a hot glue gun, super glue, even JB Weld and it keeps coming off. The top is in good shape (other than tension straps) but I'm afraid that losing this trim will let water leak in and damage the top.
http://members.cox.net/ashlandj/Misc/PICT0496.jpg

Also, the plastic rim around my window is coming off and I can't get it to stay on. I've tried a hot glue gun, super glue, even JB Weld and it keeps coming off. The top is in good shape (other than tension straps) but I'm afraid that losing this trim will let water leak in and damage the top.


Mine is doing the same thing. I think it's time for a new window as that trim is part of the zipper window.
-J

Mine had almost all fallen off and my window was in bad shape...when I had my car at the stealership to have something fixed they cracked the back window in the process so i got a new window and seal. Try that lol

I orderd my window from emiata.com and it was awsome! Good guy too! 7 mm for new rivets huh? Ok you guys are the bosses!
I'll let you know!
zach

Tension strap trick deffo works!

Here you go:

http://www.e36coupe.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71292

I went about 10 mm....works great.....I did however replace my whole top.

^^

On what beam is where you losen them?

I'm still in the dark how the tension straps can make the rearwindow beam fold all the way up to vertical when tightened.

I mean, as soon as the window beam goes up, it slackens the tension straps.....or..?!?!?

Tension strap trick deffo works!

Here you go:

http://www.e36coupe.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71292

I registered at this site the day this link was posted and still haven't been validated. Anyone else?

I registered at this site the day this link was posted and still haven't been validated. Anyone else?

There's no validaton. Well not that I know off, unless it's something that was introduced after I joined.

I registered at this site the day this link was posted and still haven't been validated. Anyone else?

There's no validaton. Well not that I know off, unless it's something that was introduced after I joined.
I also registered and got a "welcome laserdude" message. However, everytime I try to access one of the threas or links in the forum all I get is another copy the page the thread is listed on. It does not go to the individual thread or topic that is listed. Any suggestions?

I went about 10 mm....works great.....I did however replace my whole top.
How difficult was the process of switching the top? I have heard that the headliner is a major pain to put back on. Also, do you have any more pictures of the process? Yours was the first I have actually seen of a vert with the top removed.

I also registered and got a "welcome laserdude" message. However, everytime I try to access one of the threas or links in the forum all I get is another copy the page the thread is listed on. It does not go to the individual thread or topic that is listed. Any suggestions?

Does it go to the .com version? That always gives problems.

Make sure the page is the .co.uk one and it should be ok.

Picked up a 99 Vert today that's in great shape, but the issue of the back bow hitting the storage bin when opening the top is present.

I also have to get out and tuck the folded portion of the top down into the storage area, particularly the ends, otherwise the top doesn't close flush.

From reading this thead, and doing the search, it appears my solution is to zip tie some slack out of the tension straps? anything else?
Thanks

WOW, I've never seen it naked like that.

I went about 10 mm....works great.....I did however replace my whole top.

Picked up a 99 Vert today that's in great shape, but the issue of the back bow hitting the storage bin when opening the top is present.

I also have to get out and tuck the folded portion of the top down into the storage area, particularly the ends, otherwise the top doesn't close flush.

From reading this thead, and doing the search, it appears my solution is to zip tie some slack out of the tension straps? anything else?
Thanks

Zip tie?!? :eyecrazy

Tension straps need to be unbolted, pulled tight and then rebolted.

I don't think the top fully fold inside the storage and the closing lid will push it in the final bit.
Or do you mean the fabric (headlinder) sticks out between the storage and the lid?

Thanks for the reply.

By the way..I still haven't received an activation email from the admin of that UK site..so I can't see the fix you referenced. Darnit!

Anyways..Here are my symptoms.

When I open the top, the back bow clunks against the rear lid. In viewing one of the PDF's, it appears my back bow is supposed to go completely vertical, and it's not.

In addition, after I let it clunk past the rear lid, and go down, the drivers and passenger sides of the cover don't fully close. When I look behind the headrests, I can still see material/headliner still poking out. If I stop the opening operation briefly before the top goes all the way back..I can manually "tuck" the material down into the storage area, then go back to the cockpit and press the button, and then everything goes in place just fine, and both sides of the cover are flush..driver and passenger side.

I did remove my "springy rod", and it was arc'ed. I straightened, but that didnt help. Sounds like I def need to tighten up my tension straps..but Im not certain of the procedure since I cant access that link.

Thanks

I've got exactly the same issues... :(

OK.

Went into the garage and did some more checking.

Upon further review, the rear bow IS completely vertical during the opening process. So that appears fine. But when the cover opens, and the rear bow falls down..the rear bow smacks the front edge of the cover on it's way down. Thunk.

Now..if I stop the process before the thunk...and I walk back to the back of the car and push the cover back (back towards the rear of the car) just a bit..it goes back perhaps an inch or two. I then walk back to the cockpit, finish pressing the button, and the top lowers and clears the top. No thunk.

Now there is still a slight amount of headliner pinched between the cover and back of the rear headrests. Im assuming 100% of the headrest material should be completely enclosed in the storage compartment when the cover closes. Correct?

So sounds like I need to find a way to slightly adjust the rear cover/cover mechanism so that it goes back a bit further when it opens, so the rear bow can fully clear?

^^

Indeed, sounds like your lid doesn't open enough. Maybe the gasshocks are worn? It should definitely clear the lid at all times.

Sometimes my headliner got a bit stuck too, but I never bothered. Headliner is still looking mighty fine.

I do recall (now) (read it here) that there's a metal pin right above the driver that attaches to the headliner and its job is to make it fold back correctly.

So my guess is that pin isn't sitting like it should be.

The gas shocks support the trunk (I think you guys call it a boot) lid, but there are no gas shocks to support the cover. It's a couple of arms that curve upwards, that are attached to the cover, activated by cables and such. I need to find out how to adjust that.

And I did remove that long pin that runs across the drivers head over to the passenger side, and it did have a bow or arc in it. Per this site, I straightened that long pin..but could tell minimal difference in the material settling down/folding completely into the storage compartment.

...but there are no gas shocks to support the cover. ....

Sorry, you are incorrect.

The arm is actuated by a gasshocks :)

What'd you think that lid weights? A couple of cables won't hold it up.

#5

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/s/z/5.png

Btw, the gasshock holds it up. The lid itself is opened and closed by one of the 2 motors.

*Owned*

A fine exploitation of a convertible newb if there ever was one. :-)

Thanks for the info. But I'm leaning towards thinking the Gas shocks aren't the culprit..otherwise the cover wouldnt stay up at all. Im thinking more along the lines of some type of travel adjustment for the rear cover. Again, I'm just hypothesizing.

I'll look around in more detail this evening to see if I can see if there is any way to adjust anything back there. But replacing a stock shock from 1999 wouldnt be the worst shot in the dark.

Thanks again. And you've got a NICE looking vert there. Those BBS style rimes with that highly polished lip NEVER goes out of style. Had similiar ones on my old E36 318is back in the day.

^^

From the BMW file:

"The convertible top cover motor
unlatches the cover locks via bowden
cables and raises/lowers the
cover panel via a linkage rod."

The gasshock is the only thing holding the lid up. So unless some linkages are stuck, the cover should always open up to max, unless the gasshock can't hold it up anymore.

Only thing adjustable on the lid is the cover locks. (the cables).

Just my 2c.

Thanks again.

Another poster in the Mid Atlantic forum states that he had the same issue on his 99 Vert, and it's the Tensioner Straps that require replacing. Not sure I understand how the straps would affect the cover going back an inch further/providing that clearance though.

I'll price out a gas shock replacement and see how much. He states strap replacement is fairly complex, and costs around $600 to $800. Yikes.

By the way..what's the fix that works from that other forum? I still have not received a confirmation email from the admin of that site (the site referenced on page one of this thread) so I cant' see the details since I can't log in. Thanks.

Straps don't affect the cover at all, but the tension bow...the bow that hits it. But you stated it lifted to vertical....which is good (and can't go any further).

Yep. It definitely goes full vertical. The "collision" occurs right after the cover opens..and the rear bow begins it's drop down FROM the full vertical position.

I would take a pic or two..but I don't think newbies can post pics until a certain post limit.

Sounds like the tension bow drops too early.

You could try and ajust the tension bow rod. When the lid is open, the tension bow is easily ID'd from the 2 rods.

Thanks. I'll check it again, but I seem to recall the lid being opened as far as it will go (without me pushing it back that inch) before the top makes that drop down into the storage area.

But I'll definitely check that out more carefully. Thanks.

Thanks. I'll check it again, but I seem to recall the lid being opened as far as it will go (without me pushing it back that inch) before the top makes that drop down into the storage area.

But I'll definitely check that out more carefully. Thanks.

Than you have a non original hood ;)

Seriously, if the lid is fully open, the tension bow can never physically tough the lid.

I am having the same issue with my lid not going back all the way. My top also hits the lid. Its a real pain in the A$$. I will be interested to see what you find out. I have been told its the gas shocks also. Since its been cold here, I have been working more on the interior issues, but with spring around the corner, I will working on the top shortly.

Just an update. Did some checking, and after carefully and clearly describing the symptom to two local convertible shops over the phone, BOTH said "Tension Straps" before I could even finish the description.

Based upon all of the reading on this forum, as well as what the shops stated (one apparently is used by the local BMW dealership for all of their top work), it appears the Tension Straps are the issue. I may end up replacing the gas shock as well/first, as that would most certainly be the cheaper route. And if it solves the issue....

And at this writing, I STILL haven't received confirmation email from that UK site on the first page of this thread that apparently gives good info on how to tighten/adjust the straps. That would be a significant help at this time.

The tension strap can causes two main problems. One is that the back drops too quickly causing the top to stop half way when opening. The other is that the storage lid jams on the top when it is raising.

The first problem can be fixed by shortening the tension strap at the end of the roof. See the first attached file for the details. This may also help the second problem, but the fix BMW recommends for that is to replace the tension strap with the new version that came out in 5/99 (see second file). Note that is about the time they stopped producing the convertible. Finally got it figured out at the end I guess. :mad

If anyone has Repair Instruction 54 31 030 detailing how to partially remove the top cover, please share it.

thanks. The two "main problems" you describe..aren't my symptoms. My storage lid actually lifts up just fine, with no interference at all. Nothing actually jams. When the top drops and smacks the front edge of the storage lid..it's when the storage lid has completely stopped, and completed it's movement. The problem is..it has about 1/2 inch more that it could go, but never does. Once I get out and push it that 1/2 inch, then everything is just fine.

And..the production date on my Vert is 07/99. So I should have the updated tension straps..even though they are most likely original, and almost 8 years old now.

But thanks again. I'll drop the issue now, try to get the gas shocks and replace them, then report back.

Cheapest thing is retighten the tension straps. Free of charge.

Now that I read that pdf:

"
Locate the pop rivets that fasten the
tensioning strap to the rear bow on each
side.
Drill out the rivets to release the straps,
and pull the straps back 7 mm. Make
two new holes in the straps at this
location and rivet the straps in place."

I see it's a double-edged sword: this will also make the rear bow drop less violently.

I know it all works, but the tension bows are a mistery to me. It a strap that runs along the frame and onto the rear bow. How the hell can a opening top, which would slacken the tensionstraps, be able to pull UP the rear bow!?

I for sure must mis something here!

The tension strap can causes two main problems. One is that the back drops too quickly causing the top to stop half way when opening. The other is that the storage lid jams on the top when it is raising.

The first problem can be fixed by shortening the tension strap at the end of the roof. See the first attached file for the details. This may also help the second problem, but the fix BMW recommends for that is to replace the tension strap with the new version that came out in 5/99 (see second file). Note that is about the time they stopped producing the convertible. Finally got it figured out at the end I guess. :mad

If anyone has Repair Instruction 54 31 030 detailing how to partially remove the top cover, please share it.

Nordic, the straps can be reached from inside the car. Although tougher. But I am not gonna undo the canvas top from the frame...unless I would know that I could get it back... I can't see any fixing points.

You don't need new straps too. Just undo them and retight them (which will also slow rear bow dropspeed). This will not just shorten their lenghts, but also takes the 10 years of slack out of them.

If anyone has Repair Instruction 54 31 030 detailing how to partially remove the top cover, please share it.

Werd. :buttrock I just 'tried' to figure out how to fold back the sides and nearly decided to take it to a shop!!! :eek: I'm still holding out for a DIY.

^^

As said...you don't need to fold back the side to get access to the tension straps!! (although easier).

If you open the top a bit, you can see the straps right in between the headliner and rooftop.
Although where you need to undo them, can't be seen like that.

Yes, opening the top a bit allows me to see the tension straps. That's how I was able to look at them last night. Looking directly at the replacement tension straps also allows me to see the tension straps, but I want to REPLACE the tension straps, not LOOK at them, so I'll need to know how to REMOVE the old straps and replace the new ones.

Also, folding up the sides of the top puts some strain on the stitching. I popped a couple stitches just feeling around. How do you re-stitch?

I'd really like to know how to do the job the way the dealer does it.

I'd really like to know how to do the job the way the dealer does it.

So do I. Apparently Repair Instruction 54 31 030 details the process. Can anyone get their hands on this?

As said...you don't need to fold back the side to get access to the tension straps!! (although easier).

If you open the top a bit, you can see the straps right in between the headliner and rooftop.
Although where you need to undo them, can't be seen like that.

Sorry, but I'm a dumbass. I'm seen several posts where they say "Yeah, just tighten the straps..." which I don't mind doing, but I would like to know where is the best place to access them.

I apologize for the inconvenience, but a picture is truely worth 1,000 words.

OK.

Went into the garage and did some more checking.

Upon further review, the rear bow IS completely vertical during the opening process. So that appears fine. But when the cover opens, and the rear bow falls down..the rear bow smacks the front edge of the cover on it's way down. Thunk.

Now..if I stop the process before the thunk...and I walk back to the back of the car and push the cover back (back towards the rear of the car) just a bit..it goes back perhaps an inch or two. I then walk back to the cockpit, finish pressing the button, and the top lowers and clears the top. No thunk.

Now there is still a slight amount of headliner pinched between the cover and back of the rear headrests. Im assuming 100% of the headrest material should be completely enclosed in the storage compartment when the cover closes. Correct?

So sounds like I need to find a way to slightly adjust the rear cover/cover mechanism so that it goes back a bit further when it opens, so the rear bow can fully clear?
Mine does the exact same thing. It's annoying as hell. I wish my top was manual.

Sorry, but I'm a dumbass. I'm seen several posts where they say "Yeah, just tighten the straps..." which I don't mind doing, but I would like to know where is the best place to access them.

I apologize for the inconvenience, but a picture is truely worth 1,000 words.

Sadly, the pics no longer work on the DIY on the UK board.

You need to pull back the lining of the 3/4th quarter (C-pillar) lining and look up toward the framebows (top half open).

Then you can located them.

Did anyone having this problem ever replace the gas shocks? I havent tackled this project yet...but I know its coming.

I'll be able to let you know in a couple of days. I ordered the gas spring dampers (aka shocks aka Lift supports) from the dealer last Friday, and they are scheduled to arrive on Wednesday. Price at AutoZone was $56 each for the gas spring dampers for the convertible cover. (Not to be confused with the lift supports for the trunk and/or hood.) Pep Boys didn't carry them at all.

Gas spring dampers for the convertible cover from the local BMW dealer? $15 each, $12 each with BMWCCA Discount.

Again..I decided to try the gas spring damper option first because I have the "updated" tension straps implemented in 05/99, as my 'Vert has a production date of 07/99. And my top stays in a full vertical position, and allows the cover to complete it's opening motion prior to the top lowering down. And, once I get out of the car and gently push the cover backwards 1 inch or so with my hand, the cover stays back, and the top lowers down without impacting against the cover. This leads me to believe the 8 year old gas spring dampers need replacing.

If this doesn't work, next step is to drill out the tension strap rivets, pull the straps back 7mm, then re rivet.

Sidenote: there appears to only be ONE Gas Spring damper for the convertible cover, and that one is mounted on the drivers side..per the .pdf file.

Please keep me up to date on that...exactly the same thing here. Pix would be great if you get a chance.

I'll be sure to snap pics.

Just a small update.

I went outside, opened the top halfway. Got out, went around, and ensured the rear bow/window section was full vertical. Then peeked under the cover, and saw the rivets where the tension strap gets connected to the rear edge of the rear bow. So I grabbed a couple of zip ties, and pulled the tension strap approx 2 inches or so (pulling so the tension gets tighter in the strap), and fold it together, and zip tie it. In effect, I temporarily shortened the tension straps.

Granted this was not a formal "fix"..but a temporary test. The rear bow still thumped against the rear cover (unless I first pushed the rear cover back that last inch during the opening process), and I actually still had some of the headliner getting slightly bunched up behind the headrests.

But more interestingly, the top wouldnt close all the way. It would get about 8 inches from closing, then I could audibly hear the motors straining. So I stopped it, got out, removed the zip ties, and things were back to the way they were. Again..just a test. I could have had the straps pulled TOO tightly, or zip tying them in that particular section could have caused the issue..as well as not "fixing" the headliner bunching issue.

This test was no substitute for the formal BMW "fix" of drilling out the rivets, adjusting the straps, then re-riveting.

I'll report back after the shocks arrive tomorrow.

^^

Carefull now!

Now I could be wrong, but I'd swear you tighten them by unrivetting them on the 5th bow and not the 6th one (the last).

Doing so would be okay if they would not be rivetted to the 5th bow. Which I'm sure they do.

You can imagine if that's the case, that doing what you did on last bow doesn't do anything for the "still touching lid".

have you tried any of this?

This photo shows the convertible motor linkage, which is located under the large, hinged convertible top cover. You can access this area by pressing the top-down switch and letting the cover rise up all the way. The blue arrow points to the cam that drives the bottom part of the convertible top. This is the part that lifts up so the convertible top cover can be raised. If the convertible top cover hits the edge of the top when the roof is being lowered, you can adjust the linkage to push the bottom part of the cover back further (green arrow). While you’re in this area, check to make sure your convertible top motor screws are tight (they were loose on my car when I checked them; yellow arrows).

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/101-Projects-74-Convertible/Pic2-01.jpg

Im pretty sure it's the rear bow. The PDF that shows BMW Service Bulletin 54 08 96 states "locate the pop rivets that attach the tension straps to the rear bow on each side, drill out the rivets, pull the straps 7mm, then re-rivet".

That pelican parts pic is interesting. I saw it last week, but sort of discounted it..because everything in that pic links to the actual convertible roof/top. I have no idea how that green arrow part has any affect at all on the convertible cover. I may go out and experiment with it though..just to see. I have no problem experimenting..within reason.

182062

Well, I dont recall that I made an "A" in geometry, and I know that I am not a rocket scientist, but it is my understanding that this rod is supposed to be straight.....i dont think this qualifies. After straighteing the rod, my top did fold down better. However, the lid and the top continue to hit each other on the way up and down. I have no doubt the straps needs to be tighten because my top is not completely vertical, but even with it vertical, top and lid still collide. I am going to try to adjust the linkage that palimino posted earlier and see if that helps.

My rod was the same way. Took a bit of wrangling, but I bent it back to a fairly straight condition. Made no difference in my issues.

Does your top collide with your cover..because your top begins to drop BEFORE the cover completes it's upward cycle? If so..one of the pdf's says that's definitely a tension strap issue.


Also..if you stop your opening process midway..after the cover rises..can you exit the car, and push the cover back a bit with your hand..then complete the closing process..with no thunk/collision?

I think we are having exactly the same problem. My lid has about 1 inch of play in it, and thats the difference between the top and lid colliding. Hopefully one of us can find an answer to this problem.

Ok..just went out and adjusted that linkage (green arrow) in the pic above. Made no difference. I adjusted it 3 full turns outward (loosened the end), re-attached, and tested..and I *think* it made the convertible top a tad less vertical (leaning more towards the rear of the car) at the position when the top pauses for the rear cover to open. Collision still occured in the same manner/intensity. I then turned it back to the original position..then 3 turns inward (tightening)..and it made the top go more towards the front of the car..

Had absolute zero effect on the storage cover, or the collision issue.

This has GOTTA be a worn strut issue.

Now..next question..how do I get to the strut tomorrow night/evening? Im guessing through the trunk, behind the carpet liner?

I think we are having exactly the same problem. My lid has about 1 inch of play in it, and thats the difference between the top and lid colliding. Hopefully one of us can find an answer to this problem.

we'll get this figured out. Damn if I'm paying the dealer or a local shop hundreds for this one.

That rod with the green arrow is the rod that controls the tension bar, the one that's hitting the lid.
In theory, lenghtening it should make the rear bow move (more towards) vertical.

Of course, this also means that when it lowers, it lowers back less, so could even end up not touching the lid when the roof is closed again.

But rod adjustment + retightening (or replacement) of the tension straps is the only thing you can do. If that doesn't work, the lid doesn't lift enough.

There's one last thing though. The rear bow moves forward in a slid (the pivot point). Check that it does so and does not get stuck along the way.

182062

Well, I dont recall that I made an "A" in geometry, and I know that I am not a rocket scientist, but it is my understanding that this rod is supposed to be straight.....i dont think this qualifies. After straighteing the rod, my top did fold down better. However, the lid and the top continue to hit each other on the way up and down. I have no doubt the straps needs to be tighten because my top is not completely vertical, but even with it vertical, top and lid still collide. I am going to try to adjust the linkage that palimino posted earlier and see if that helps.

That's the same pool table I used to have! Just sold it a few days ago.
-J

That rod with the green arrow is the rod that controls the tension bar, the one that's hitting the lid.
In theory, lenghtening it should make the rear bow move (more towards) vertical.

Of course, this also means that when it lowers, it lowers back less, so could even end up not touching the lid when the roof is closed again.

Great point. I think people do not think about the second part. BMW says 7mm, but the true change (if even necessary) will be different for each car.

Well the cover shocks arrived today. Dealer(Tischer..also an Internet parts dealer advertised on this forum) confirmed there is only one for the cover, so they kept the other, and credited my account for it.

Also..my Bentley manual arrived today, which is good.

I can see how to easily pop off the bottom part of the shock...but have NO idea what's holding the top part on, and how to remove it. I've removed the trunk carpeting which reveals how to get the lower part..but Im stumped on the upper part.

Any information on this?

Thanks

Great point. I think people do not think about the second part. BMW says 7mm, but the true change (if even necessary) will be different for each car.

What exactly is that 7mm refering to?

What exactly is that 7mm refering to?

Check out the pdf files I attached earlier. If the lid is hitting the top when opening, then BMW recommends shortening the strap by 7mm.

Check out the pdf files I attached earlier. If the lid is hitting the top when opening, then BMW recommends shortening the strap by 7mm.

True.


But when you fully read that .pdf, it goes into more specifics on the symptoms. For situations when the top is going into it's down position (into the storage cover too fast aka BEFORE the cover fully opens, then shortening the tension straps resolves the lid hitting the top issue.

In my situation, the cover does complete it's opening process before the top drops. It's just that the cover isnt going COMPLETELY back by itself.

Check out the pdf files I attached earlier. If the lid is hitting the top when opening, then BMW recommends shortening the strap by 7mm.

You said it in a reply to my rod adjustement post, so I thought it had something to do with the rod.

So I'm not sure what "great point" you were on about, since I was talking about the rod, not the straps.

Sorry, you are incorrect.

The arm is actuated by a gasshocks :)

What'd you think that lid weights? A couple of cables won't hold it up.

#5

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/s/z/5.png

Btw, the gasshock holds it up. The lid itself is opened and closed by one of the 2 motors.

Part #23 is what I'm having a hard time figuring it out. I can't fully see how it works with regards to holding the top part of the gas shock in place..

Looks like the testing of the gas shock/strut will be delayed. Just noticed that the part I picked up yesterday from the dealer (special order part mind you), has "E46" stamped across the side of the strut. Didn't notice it during pickup.
Dammit.

Heading back to the dealer today to return this one, and order the E36 equivalent.

Update:
Returned the E46 support shock, and they ordered the proper E36 parts.
I say parts, because I erred in my interpretation of the diagram. The parts computer definitely states that there are TWO shocks, one for each side. The E36 shocks cost twice as much as the E46..approx $32 each for the E36's.

I'll post an update on Saturday..which is when the E36 parts are due to arrive at the dealer.

One thing you can try, as long as you are poking around in there, is adjust the position of the cover motor. I had the same symptoms, top was in correct position but still hit the cover when closing. Seemed like the cover need to raise up another 1/2". I loosened the 4 mounting screws for the cover motor, pushed it forward as far as it would go (there is about 1/4" of play in the mounting holes) and tightened them up. Top no longer hits the cover.

Seems like a simple enough trick to try. I'll give that one a shot this evening.

hummmm interesting. I finally got a chance to read through the post and the pdf's. I had been lead to think that shortning the straps the 7mm would fix the problem where the top jams against the storage lid. I guess not.

Does someone have a fix for this issue other than replacing the straps completely?

-J

hummmm interesting. I finally got a chance to read through the post and the pdf's. I had been lead to think that shortning the straps the 7mm would fix the problem where the top jams against the storage lid. I guess not.

Does someone have a fix for this issue other than replacing the straps completely?

-J

You don't appear to have read this entire thread thoroughly.

Please do..then let us know if you have further questions.

One thing you can try, as long as you are poking around in there, is adjust the position of the cover motor. I had the same symptoms, top was in correct position but still hit the cover when closing. Seemed like the cover need to raise up another 1/2". I loosened the 4 mounting screws for the cover motor, pushed it forward as far as it would go (there is about 1/4" of play in the mounting holes) and tightened them up. Top no longer hits the cover.

I assume this is the rearmost motor..correct? The Bentley manual is not very clear.

Yes, the rearmost & also easiest to get to, the top motor is tucked in there more.

Just tried it. The lower two silver nuts (horizontal) do indeed allow the bottom portion of the storage cover motor to slide to and fro a bit. The upper silver nots (facing vertical) have no adjustability.

Regardless...loosened the bottom two, slid the bottom portion of the motor as far forward as possible, re-tightened. Gave the roof 3 full cycles to try it out....




























No change at all. The thunk between roof and storage cover same as before. Stopped it midway, and got out to check the storage cover, and I can still push it back an inch or 2.

I am hopeful replacing the gas springs/shocks will resolve this.


I still can't see how to get the top part of the shocks off. The diagram shows some sort of small grey lever that appears to attach to the top portion/hold it on, but not sure which way to push it/pull it, or how to re-attach. It's TIGHT up in there and the Bentley is no help.

I have taken a hard look at the gas shocks for the vert lid. I have no clue how I would replace them. I dont see anyway to get to them. I am sure there is a trick, but I cant see it. I have you have better luck than me lseguy.

The bottom portion of the shock shouldnt be an issue. Withe the trunk open, I can easily see how I can get a flathead in there, and release the clip that holds the lower mount in place.

But that upper? I have NO idea. And have found no help here or in the Bentley. Tomorrow should be interesting.

Finally figured it out. Quite simple actually. No pics actually needed.

Once you pull back the trunk carpet on both drivers and passenger side, you will see the actual gas shocks through holes in the sheetmetal. They are the same type of gas shock used for the trunk and hood. To remove the lower portion of the shock from it's mount, you simply insert a flathead screwdriver (thin one) between the metal clip and body of the shock, and the lower part will pop right off.

Since it's so tight up top, BMW placed a small adapter onto the top portion of the shock. The adapter has a 3-4 inch metal lever attached. This lever is in a vertical position when the convertible top is fully closed or fully opened/storage lid closed. Place your hand into the sheetmetal hole, and gently but firmly push the lever outwards, towards the quarter panel. The upper mount portion of the shock will then pop off as well.

Gas shock removed. Installation reverse of removal.

Unfortunately I did not get a chance to test out replacement shocks, because the dealership ordered the wrong set of shocks..AGAIN. This time they don't have E46 stamped on them, but neither do they have E36 on them. They are shorter, and the upper mount has a bolt installed in it, vs the basic hole that they stock ones have.

Also, it appears the upper adapter I referred to might be a separate part, meaning, you simply pop it off the old strut, and place on the new one.

I will find out for sure on Monday, because before I knew how the lever worked, I attempted to turn it blindly, and it snapped off of the passenger side shock. Was able to vertically stick a flathead blade in there, and twist against the remaining portion of the adapter, and the shock came right off though. Scary moment for a second, blindly breaking a piece of metal whose purpose you had no idea of..

Thanks for the insight...i am looking forward to seeing if that solves your problem. Have you had any issues with the stitching coming out on your top. I foresee that as a future problem as well. I look forward to your post on Monday.

The local vert roof specialist (see other topic) I went to friday...also had a handy tip for me as an emergency strap solution.

You can pull the straps, look it and just zip-ty it snugly. This is the quick and dirty version of removing the rivets, pulling them back and re-revit them.
Guy helping me also showed my my metal headliner pin was out of the loops of the right strap, so I fixed that too. (easy fix, so I recommand everyone to check) This helps the headlining to fold up correctly so it doesn't stick out in between the storage compartment and headrests.

And I'm pleased my slightly sagging headliner above the sidewindows is now corrected. Turned out some plastic clip on the headliner was not clicked to the roofframe again. So it was a 2-second fix.
Damn, 11 months driving with it sagging before I found out....

Zip tie?!? :eyecrazy

Tension straps need to be unbolted, pulled tight and then rebolted.

I don't think the top fully fold inside the storage and the closing lid will push it in the final bit.
Or do you mean the fabric (headlinder) sticks out between the storage and the lid?

yeah...Zip Tie. ;-)

Finally figured it out. Quite simple actually. No pics actually needed.

Once you pull back the trunk carpet on both drivers and passenger side, you will see the actual gas shocks through holes in the sheetmetal. They are the same type of gas shock used for the trunk and hood. To remove the lower portion of the shock from it's mount, you simply insert a flathead screwdriver (thin one) between the metal clip and body of the shock, and the lower part will pop right off.

Since it's so tight up top, BMW placed a small adapter onto the top portion of the shock. The adapter has a 3-4 inch metal lever attached. This lever is in a vertical position when the convertible top is fully closed or fully opened/storage lid closed. Place your hand into the sheetmetal hole, and gently but firmly push the lever outwards, towards the quarter panel. The upper mount portion of the shock will then pop off as well.

Gas shock removed. Installation reverse of removal.

Unfortunately I did not get a chance to test out replacement shocks, because the dealership ordered the wrong set of shocks..AGAIN. This time they don't have E46 stamped on them, but neither do they have E36 on them. They are shorter, and the upper mount has a bolt installed in it, vs the basic hole that they stock ones have.

Also, it appears the upper adapter I referred to might be a separate part, meaning, you simply pop it off the old strut, and place on the new one.

I will find out for sure on Monday, because before I knew how the lever worked, I attempted to turn it blindly, and it snapped off of the passenger side shock. Was able to vertically stick a flathead blade in there, and twist against the remaining portion of the adapter, and the shock came right off though. Scary moment for a second, blindly breaking a piece of metal whose purpose you had no idea of..

once i hear of the outcome of this, ill add it to my thread-of-knowledge. :redspot







and change out the hood shocks on my car :paranoid:

Thanks for the insight...i am looking forward to seeing if that solves your problem. Have you had any issues with the stitching coming out on your top. I foresee that as a future problem as well. I look forward to your post on Monday.

No stitching issues yet.

And the update will most likely be on Wednesday. The storage cover lid shocks are a special order, and takes about 2 days to come in.

I'm feeling fairly confident the replacement shocks will have enough fresh force to push the storage cover lid 1 inch further back when that cover opens. That inch is the difference between clearing, and collision of the roof and storage cover.

And once that's taken care of, I have to dig into why my headliner still doesn't tuck fully into the storage area upon top opening. I have to tuck it down inthere by hand. I straigtened out that rod that runs above your head, but to not avail.

Its amazing how similar our problems are with the tops. As my earlier thread stated, I straightened my rod over my head and it helped some. I am going to wait and see how your shock replacement goes before I move forward on that...but I do need to tackle another project also. The pic belows shows the piece I am missing. I know the part number, but I am not sure how it it works. Also I am not sure if i need any other parts with...clips etc. Anyone dealt with this?

^^

You missing the piece that covers the main pivot point structure. That plate has a spring attached to it and when the roof is raised, it will push away this plate.
When lowered, the spring tension makes it slide back so you don't see any of the hinges.
The smaller cover (plate) below it, can be pulled out as this is where the hardtop fixing point are.

So I need to order the spring also.....is it possible to snap a pic so I can see where and how the spring attaches? Thanks.

So..the gas shocks (springs is what they are called) arrived today. Turns out the adapter I referred to above, is sold separately, but they also come installed on the shocks, so obviously you don't need to order those separately when you order replacement shocks.

I don't have the parts in front of me, but it's critical that you give the parts guy your VIN when ordering. It appears there may be multiple designs within the same year.

Gonna take me a bit of time this evening to install these, as they need to be installed in a compressed state. They come from the dealer in an uncompressed state. And there is NO room where they mount, to maneuver your hands or any tooling to compress them, move into place, then install.

So, I plan to stop at the local hardware store, find some sort of strong plastic adjustable zip-tie type strap, a large clamp/vise type device, and use that to compress the shocks to the precise amount needed to place the top portion on the mount, and the lower portion on the mount. I can then use snips to reach in and cut the plastic strap. Not rocket science..just need to get them compressed, and held into the compressed state temporarily.

I did an informal "test" between the old and new shocks. When I compressed them against the garage floor, the new ones "rebounded" with noticeably more force/quickness. In addition, the old shocks slowed their decompression about the last inch of distance, while the new ones popped out strongly the entire distance. Lastly, with both old and new shocks fully decompressed in my hand, standing them side by side, I could see approximately 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch difference in overall length, with the newer shock being the longer one.

I'll give an update later, but hopefully, this will eliminate the cover hitting the lid issue that I have.

Like everyone else, I'm waiting on the results...

But I happened to be trolling through the Parked thread about convertible issues on this site last night, and saw a mention that the shocks were to keep the lid from slamming down when closing (rather than pushing up when opening, though they could obviously serve a dual purpose).

Also, there was a message - actually several - that linked to PDFs about convertible tops (apparently BMW documentation?) - and at least one of those PDFs showed an adjustment point for the cover to increase the open swing amount. In particular, RAAdjustingelectricdriveforconvertibletoplid.pdf has a paragraph and illustration that says:
Adjusting height of convertible top lid:
The convertible top is stowed in the convertible-top box.
Open convertible top lid using motor.
Clamping brackets (1) on convertible top lid serve to adjust height.
Unscrew these completely for the basic setting.

I *thought* I had checked out all of those PDF's pretty closely, but may have missed that one. I will need to re-check. When they say "convertible top lid"..are they referring to the roof, or the storage cover lid?.

But just an hour or so ago, when I was testing, I can confirm that with the shocks COMPLETELY removed, the lid opens and closes in the same manner as when they are installed. The lid isnt nearly as open as it normally is..I'd say the open position was 2 inches lower than normal. Its the pressure from the gas shocks that pushes the lid up to it's final position.

But it closed the same way, as when shocks were installed. Nothing slammed at all.

By the way..were you referring to figure 2 on this page?
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/101-Projects-74-Convertible/101-Projects-74-Convertible.htm

If so, I definitely tried that, and it had no effect on my storage cover at all. And when you look at it..why would it? All of the linkages shown affect the actual roof/top.

ooohhh hurry up and get them installed! the suspense is killing me! i want that problem gone on my vert so bad!

No, that motor thing on the Pelikan site is a different issue entirely.

Ladies and gentlemen..after finagling and wrangling and cut hands (sharp sheetmetal edges under the carpet at the rear quarter panels)..I finally replaced both of the storage cover gas springs (aka struts) on my 1999 M3 Convertible with 79k miles.

And the verdict is in, as to whether or not this solved the issue of the rear bow colliding with the leading edge of the storage cover during opening and closing of the top.

And the answer is..








<drumroll please>


















IT WORKED. The rear bow of the top and storage cover no longer collide during opening or closing of the top! Tried 4 full cycles, and no collision at all.

Now let me clarify again. I've read on various threads that there can be a more common cause for this issue, and that's worn tension straps. (hence this thread). Apparently the main symptom for the colliding of the two parts when it's due to the tension straps, is the fact that the top doesn't complete it's upward cycle/go full vertical, before the storage cover comes up. In addition, when the closing cycle begins, the top begins to drop too early, causing the rear bow to hit the leading edge of the storage cover, before the storage cover completes it's upward cycle.

Those were not my symptoms. My top/rear bow would indeed go full vertical, and complete it's cycle before the storage cover went up, but the collision would occur when the rear bow would begin it's drop down into the storage area, and smack against the open storage lid cover on the way down. If I exited the car before the rear bow begain it's drop into the storage area, and I pushd back a bit on the storage cover, then re-enter the car and complete the opening cycle, no collision would occur.

Replacing the storage cover gas spring/struts with fresh/new ones now pushes the storage cover back that inch it needed.

Success.

^^

Nice work man! You finally did it!

How to replace the storage cover gas springs/struts on a 1999 M3 Convertible.

Head to the dealership, and provide the dealer with your vin so that the parts guy can provide you with the proper gas springs/struts for your particular model. Apparently there is more than one application for the 1999 model year M3, not sure about the 1998 model year M3. Can't speak for other year E36's. My gas spring was identical to the one shown in this graphic
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/s/z/5.png

In order to get to the mounting points of the springs, you will need to pull back/remove the carpeting on the left and right sides of the trunk. On both sides you will see open holes in the inner skin of the sheetmetal, and the gas springs/struts will be visible inside of these holes. On my 1999 M3, I was able to use a flathead screwdriver to slightly pull back the metal clip on the lower mount of the gas springs, and release them from their mounts. On the passengers side of the car, I was able to reach back through the hole just ahead of the radio antenna mounting, and push the black metal vertical lever that is attached to the upper point of the gas spring, outward. This releases the strut from it's upper mount. On the drivers side, you have less room to work with due to the motor that is mounted to the quarter panel just ahead of the drivers side tail light, so you may need to release the upper mount from the top. To do that, you must close the trunk, then open the convertible top halfway. Once the storage cover is fully open, stop the opening process, get out, and reach down into drivers side storage cover hole. Locate the gas spring/strut upper mount release lever, and press it outwards. The gas spring should release, and fall down. Close the top, open the trunk, and remove the old strut(s).

In order to install the new struts, you need to follow a two step process.

For the passenger side, I was able to pop on the upper mount of the gas spring/strut through the hole in the storage cover area. To do this, I opened the convertible top until the storage cover opened fully, then stopped the opening process. With the gas spring in my hand, I reached down into the hole (it's tight..if you have huge fat hands, you might have a problem here), and going by feel, was able to attach the strut to the upper mount. I then was able to reach all the way down into the hole, and press the gas spring/strut onto the lower mount. You should hear/feel audible clicks when the springs/struts are fully mounted properly into their mounts. In order to get the lower portion of the strut snapped onto the lower mount, you may need to push back fairly firmly against the storage cover, so that the mouting points line up properly. You may find it helpful to temporarily pop off the rubber stops that are attached to the arms of the storage cover, so the cover can go back as far as abslutely possible. You also may need to pull upwards on the bottom of the strut in order to get it upwards that last 1/4 inch it will need to snap onto the lower mount. This will require you to get your hand FULLY down into the tight hole.

Re-attach your carpet, and that's that.

I was able to do this without moving any of the motors or drivers side items ahead of the drivers side tailight.

On the passenger side, it was easier for me to unscrew that one nut that holds the antenna mount in place and push the mount aside, as it allowed me to reach through that vertical hole that faces the passenger side tailight.

Good Luck. and remember, this is how you do it if your struts have the black vertical lever at the top. Some of the struts appear to have a bolt threaded onto the upper mount, and I can't speak for the Remove and Replace process for those.



***************Update***************
04/07/2007.

Mparallel reports an easier way to reach the shocks.

"And now the biggest tip I can give....

...remove the lid!! It's just 4 10mm bolts (I had a friend help me for this)

This way (you need to insert something so the microswitch (on the right lock hinge) won't activate the interlock (I used a large allen key) you can have the hinges AND the lit FULLY open at once.

Why is this good? Because now you can install the gasshock while it's fully extended. So no need at all to try and sqeeze it together in a place where my hands won't go."

Thanks dude.


Now my other issue remains, and that's the bunching up of the headliner behind the headrests when the top opens. I have to get out, tuck it into the storage area, then finish the opening process. I removed that rod from above the headliner, and straighted it (it had a bend/bow), but to no avail. I have a feeling that rod gets weak over the years, and simply loses it's ability to maintain a certain amount of stiffness. Metal fatigue?

I'm going to try to locate a similar rod at the local hardware store and see if replacing it altogether helps. If that doesnt work, I'll see what the dealer charges for a brand new one.

Those were not my symptoms. My top/rear bow would indeed go full vertical, and complete it's cycle before the storage cover went up, but the collision would occur when the rear bow would begin it's drop down into the storage area, and smack against the open storage lid cover on the way down.
Success.

yeah, softtop hitting the storage lid is not the same as storage lid hitting the softtop!

glad we got this worked out. im adding it to my list at the top of the forum and my list of things to do.

:redspot :buttrock :alright :clap :clap
Awesome job!!!. As you know...I am having the exact same symptoms. I plan on ordering the springs/shocks tomorrow. Thanks for the detailed explaination. If you are in the Memphis area in the next few days...feel free to drop by and help install another set. Thanks again!

Couple of small things to remember:

Carpet comes out easier if you remove the black taillight covers that are inside of the trunk area.

On the passenger side, in order to fully move the carpet out of the way, you will need to disconnnect the manual fuel door release wire. Mine was a green wire attached to a black wire via a half connector. Top half of the connector goes to the green wire/bottom half goes to the black. Pull these two apart in order to release the wire, so that you can move the carpet out of the way.

I also STRONGLY suggest wearing some sort of gloves. Preferably ones with the fingers out. The metal edges of the sheetmetal are fairly sharp, and gave me a couple of nasty nicks. But, you will need your finger feel in order to mate up the hole in the top part of the strut to the mounting point up in there.

lseguy,

Great writeup. You saved us all alot of time and effort.

Thanks

No problem. Glad to share the knowledge.

Im just glad I got past trying to find a way to compress the struts in order to attempt to install them with the storage cover closed while laying in the trunk area. Those attempts were NOT fun. LOL.

As the ranking old timer with a 99 M3 Vert, THANKS lseguy!

I can now try to attempt to fix the common problems that we share as part of the brotherhood. :cool

lseguy,

Could you please check something for me, since you fitted a fresh gasshock...

There are 2 rubber bumpstops on the hinges of the lid. When opened, I would like to know if both bumpstops are against the chassis.

I ask, because this problem you found out was new to me...being the lid not opening far enough. I knew all the roof problems, tension bar not retracting to full vertical etc.

Today was awesome weather and 1st time this year of topless driving (fealt great!)

This also gave me some time to check the roof and all.

Strange things was, I needed to help raise the tension bow when I dropped the roof, but when I put the roof up, it never hit the lid.

Today, the bow hit the lid when the bow was dropped! After asking someone to push back the lid, no problems!
So....it looks as if my lid doesn't open up far enough! (who would have thought!)

Now...1st thing I checked was when I saw the bumpstops and noticed one is against the chassis (so can't go any further), but the other one wasn't.

Problem is, there's only one gasshock that needs to lift all the wait. So the side that doesn't have a shock (which is also the side where my bumpstop doesn't reach the chassis) the leverage on the gasshock is quite high!

So, with your freshly installed shock, could you please tell me if both bumpstops are against the chassis?

Greetings:
Just to be sure we are all clear: I have a 99 M3 'Vert, production date 07/99. I am not 100% sure if all E36 verts have the exact same setup.
Initially I thought there was only ONE shock, because I mis-read the printed diagrams which only show one shock located on the drivers side. I guess you are supposed to translate/assume there is one gas shock on each side...which there is, at least on my 'Vert. So I have one shock on the passenger side, and one on the drivers side. Both are identical. Are you absolutely positive you have only one shock on your 328??
So i replaced BOTH of them at the same time. Approx $35 each with CCA discount if Im recalling correctly. (Don't have the receipt in front of me).
Before I did the install, the rubber bumpstops attached to the arms of the lid were NOT hitting up against the chassis. They were both approximately 1/2 inch away from the chassis when the lid was in the fully open position.
60 degrees here in the DC area today, and the girlfriend asked to borrow the M3 for today to go visit relatives, so I can't go out and check the bumpstop positions right now/post install but I will later, and let you know.
And again..my rear bow would smack against the front edge of my lid every time I raised or lowered the top. EVERY time. I've since opened/closed the top approximately a dozen times since the install, and NO collissions between lid and top have occured at all.

I ordered my new spring/shocks Thursday, I expect I will try to install them sometime this week. I will keep everyone update on the install.

... Are you absolutely positive you have only one shock on your 328??...

Not anymore! Thanks! I must have misinterpreted that diagram than. I thought there was only one shock. That would solve my problem on the spot then, as this means one shock has given up the ghost, since only one side of the lid has the bumpstop againt the chassis when open.

Guess it's time to pull away all trunk linings and check!

And keep in mind the difference between the bow hitting the lid or the lid hitting the bow. Both are different types of problems (1st being the shock thing as the lid doesn't raise enough, 2nd being the bow that doesn't lift to (near) vertical enough.

Correct. My issue was definitely bow hitting the lid. It would smack the lid when going down into the storage compartment, and when rising up out of the storage compartment.

By the way, I'm going to go ahead and order a new replacement thin rod for the top. The one that goes horizontally across the roof from driver to passenger side that eventually develops the arc/bend in it. Even though I straightened mine out a couple of weeks ago, it has already arc'ed again. Im thinking the metal fatigues after a few years and a few hundred (thousand?) top cycles and just wears out, causing the headliner to bunch up behind the headrests when you open the top.

By the way, I'm going to go ahead and order a new replacement thin rod for the top. The one that goes horizontally across the roof from driver to passenger side that eventually develops the arc/bend in it. Even though I straightened mine out a couple of weeks ago, it has already arc'ed again. Im thinking the metal fatigues after a few years and a few hundred (thousand?) top cycles and just wears out, causing the headliner to bunch up behind the headrests when you open the top.

I have the same problem as you, the bunching up caused the plastic panel at the front of the top to break one of the clips. I repaired the clip, but in order to stop the bunching up I just push the area by the rod in a bit as the top folds, and I don't even need to get out of the car or stop the process to do it. Please let us know if the new rod solves the problem. Also part numbers/price would be great!

-Al.

Almost forgot. My passenger side clip (same one you speak of) broke as well. I tried gluing it, which held until the first time I put the top up/down. Im 2 seconds from doing the drill small hole and use black or grey zip tie method to "repair" it. Seems like the only REAL fix is to replace that entire big plastic section that runs around the entire front part of the headliner. I can only imagine what that costs.

Lseguy, is this what your shocks look like? I picked these up today will hopefully install them sometime this week.

Yep! That's them. That lever is kind of soft metal, so don't apply too much pressure on it when removing the old shocks, and installing the new ones. You push outwards on them to release the upper part of the shock from it's mount, and also push outwards on them to slip them onto the mount.

outwards away from the cylinder?

Yep. It will make more sense once you go in the trunk and pull your carpet back and view the ones currently installed. I suggest doing the passenger side first, since you have more room, and can get a better feel over there. You are going to want to push that lever outwards..towards the quarter panel..with one hand/finger, then with the other hand, push out on the shock itself. it will pop right out of that upper mount.

Thanks for the info....take a look at my new post about vert part.....see what you think.

Almost forgot. My passenger side clip (same one you speak of) broke as well. I tried gluing it, which held until the first time I put the top up/down. Im 2 seconds from doing the drill small hole and use black or grey zip tie method to "repair" it. Seems like the only REAL fix is to replace that entire big plastic section that runs around the entire front part of the headliner. I can only imagine what that costs.

lse, that part is exorbitantly expensive. Use a two part plastic epoxy and let it dry for at least an hour before lowering the top. From that point on as long as you fold the headliner as you lower the top, the clip should stay in place, as mine has for an entire year so far.

-Al.

Almost forgot. My passenger side clip (same one you speak of) broke as well. I tried gluing it, which held until the first time I put the top up/down. Im 2 seconds from doing the drill small hole and use black or grey zip tie method to "repair" it. Seems like the only REAL fix is to replace that entire big plastic section that runs around the entire front part of the headliner. I can only imagine what that costs.

I have one broken too. It's a common problem. When fixed...as long as you don't lower the roof, you're fine. If not...same as you. Problem is that when the roof is pulled inside the storage area and only one side of the whole mechanism has the linkrods, there's leverage on the roof, causing the slightly round headliner finisher (as it's called) to be pulled straight. When that happens, the weaker side will eventually break off.
Never drill a hole in it though as you permanentely ruin it. And as said, that piece is a fortune.
I haven't fixed it yet, but it needs some industrial strenght glue or velcro (or both) to stay in place, which is a bummer, as the fully-auto headline finisher looks so much better.
The clips itself can't be ordered seperately.
Whatever you do, please don't zip-tie it in place!

That thin metal rod...I know where it is (didn't check yet if it's bend as my headliner doesn't fold correctly either) but I wonder what this piece does to make the headliner fold properly.

btw Iseguy...I finally saw the gasshocks. Can youget your hand in where the hinges go in or is it only possible via the trunk?

lse, that part is exorbitantly expensive. Use a two part plastic epoxy and let it dry for at least an hour before lowering the top. From that point on as long as you fold the headliner as you lower the top, the clip should stay in place, as mine has for an entire year so far.

-Al.

Thanks. I will give this a try. But question: Can you clarify the "fold the headliner as you lower" part of the statement?

I think that rod's stiffness, is what forces the headliner material further backwards..towards the trunk (vs towards the backside of the rear headrests) during the closing process. After awhile, it bends, and doesn't fully do it's job. Again..that's just my theory. Haven't had a chance to hit the dealer yet and price/order a replacement. But taking mine out/re-straightening it didn't help much at all, I can tell you that.

And yes..it's a snug fit, but I was able to get my hand down in both of the holes where the hinges are..standing outside the car, reaching down. Kind of freaked me out a bit, because a couple of times, it felt like my hand was stuck down there. But that's the method I used.

I think that rod's stiffness, is what forces the headliner material further backwards..towards the trunk (vs towards the backside of the rear headrests) during the closing process. After awhile, it bends, and doesn't fully do it's job. Again..that's just my theory. Haven't had a chance to hit the dealer yet and price/order a replacement. But taking mine out/re-straightening it didn't help much at all, I can tell you that.

And yes..it's a snug fit, but I was able to get my hand down in both of the holes where the hinges are..standing outside the car, reaching down. Kind of freaked me out a bit, because a couple of times, it felt like my hand was stuck down there. But that's the method I used.

Ah ok! As I also so you mentioning that you went from inside the trunk to access them.

Thanks. I will give this a try. But question: Can you clarify the "fold the headliner as you lower" part of the statement?

Well, when I lower the top I push that part of the headliner in (closer to the outer top material) as it lowers. that little nudge is all it takes for it to fold properly... being that your break is on the passenger side it might make it a little more difficult.

Well, when I lower the top I push that part of the headliner in (closer to the outer top material) as it lowers. that little nudge is all it takes for it to fold properly... being that your break is on the passenger side it might make it a little more difficult.

You mean you push on the plastic finisher itself?

I thought on the headliner material.

Ok...got the passenger side shock off fairly easy...your instructions were right on. However, how in the hell did you get the shock to compress? The new ones are much stronger. I have not attempted the drivers side yet until I figure out the compression issue. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

I think he said he pre-compressed it and used zip ties. Then when he got it attached to the lid he maneuvered the lid until the bottom lined up, and then pushed that on. And then cut the zip ties. That may imply pulling the disconnect release...not sure about forcing the motors by pushing the lid by hand. Or perhaps pre-measuring and compressing to just that amount?

No, no no. Re-read my full post on page 4. I found it impossible to keep them compressed. The zip ties would slide off of the bottom portion during installation. Besides, you would only need to compress them if you have the storage lid closed, and you are working from inside the trunk.

I ended up CLOSING the trunk, and opening the storage lid, and working from the top. You will need to stick your hand down into the hole located on each side of the storage lid. With the storage lid raised, the shocks MUST be in the decompressed state. On the passenger side, it went on with mild pushing back on the storage lid..to make a bit more distance between the upper and lower mounting points.

In the drivers side, I REALLY had to push back HARD on the storage lid..as well as temporarily remove the rubber stops that are located on the arms of the storage lid. Once I pushed back HARD, I was able to get that last 1/4 inch of distance needed for the lower part of the shock to snap onto it's mount.

Ok...got the passenger side shock off fairly easy...your instructions were right on. However, how in the hell did you get the shock to compress? The new ones are much stronger. I have not attempted the drivers side yet until I figure out the compression issue. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Whats the latest? Any success?

Hey guys....well...it is done!!! It did fix my problem and the top and the lid do not hit anymore. I didnt post last night because I worked on it until 11:00, and still didnt finish. But after a couple of hours, bruised hands and forearms and a few failed attempts.....it works!!!!!! I tried the compressed route also.....no luck. I will say, if you have big hands or big forearms...I dont know if it is physically possible. Funny part I dont understand is how in the world the dealer ship would do it. Maybe they have some special tools or something. Lseguy...great instructions. I will re-read them again and see if there is anything I can add. Thanks for all the info.

Excellent.

Glad it worked out. Hope you heal quickly. :-)

You mean you push on the plastic finisher itself?

I thought on the headliner material.

Sorry, it took me a while to respond, but I meant the headliner, not the plastic finisher.

Sorry, it took me a while to respond, but I meant the headliner, not the plastic finisher.

So you just push against it when the top lifts away from the windshield?

I think that rod's stiffness, is what forces the headliner material further backwards..towards the trunk (vs towards the backside of the rear headrests) during the closing process. After awhile, it bends, and doesn't fully do it's job. Again..that's just my theory. Haven't had a chance to hit the dealer yet and price/order a replacement. But taking mine out/re-straightening it didn't help much at all, I can tell you that.

.

After some poking around with a bright flashlight, I noticed that I did NOT have the metal rod going through it's sleeve that is located the entire cross way across the top of the roof. I only had it going through the small loops on the drivers side, and passengers side. So in short, the rod wasn't able to do it's job.

Pulled it out, made SURE it was within the sleeve the entire way across the headliner, then tested the top. The headliner now folds away enough where the storage cover can close tightly/securely without manual intervention.

The headliner still isnt 100% tucked inside the storage compartment, but once the storage cover closes, you can barely see any exposed headliner. BARELY.

After some poking around with a bright flashlight, I noticed that I did NOT have the metal rod going through it's sleeve that is located the entire cross way across the top of the roof. I only had it going through the small loops on the drivers side, and passengers side. So in short, the rod wasn't able to do it's job.

Pulled it out, made SURE it was within the sleeve the entire way across the headliner, then tested the top. The headliner now folds away enough where the storage cover can close tightly/securely without manual intervention.

The headliner still isnt 100% tucked inside the storage compartment, but once the storage cover closes, you can barely see any exposed headliner. BARELY.

No kidding mate! How could you mis that. :)

Anyways...When my headliner didn't fold correctly (and when I was too lazy to tuck it in myself) I never had any problems with the lid not closing.

After bending the rod straight (for as much as possible) the headliner tucks in 95%. So if I don't tuck it in, it's like yours now.

Since I need to get out anyways to lift up the lid (as one shock is leak) I tuck it in myself so it won't damage (I'm suprised the headliner is still so nice even though I used to not tuck it in for nearly a year with lots of topless driving).
Now I just got a call from BMW that the shocks (I ordered 2 to be sure) have arrived, so I'm gonna pick them up on friday and hopefully replace them this weekend. (Iseguy, how the hell did you manage to get them out via the storage compartement!? I can't even get my hand in there!. So I guess I have to do it via the boot.) Do you know if I need to take out the plastic storage thingy on the left side to be able to pull out bootlinings?)

Regarding this headliner issue... My headliner does the same thing; just barely sticking up when the lid closes. I believe this is exactly what caused the clips on the windshield header trim to snap. So, be careful if your headliner isn't tucking in all the way that there is not any stress on that trim panel when your lid closes.

-J

Regarding this headliner issue... My headliner does the same thing; just barely sticking up when the lid closes. I believe this is exactly what caused the clips on the windshield header trim to snap. So, be careful if your headliner isn't tucking in all the way that there is not any stress on that trim panel when your lid closes.

-J

Nope that's not the case. The clips snapping has nothing to do with the headliner. You can even remove the headlining and the problem is still there: when the roof folds down, the side where the motor/rod is, is where the roof is pushed. So the other side isn't at all, creating leverage. This cause that one side retracts more/earlier. Anyways, when the roof is full retracted, there quite some tension on the trim piece. It's being bend straight, while it has a small arch shape when the roof is up. Well if you try to flatten this piece (as what happens) the weakest side will snap off. What happens a lot.
Shame, as the auto-roof trim is much nicer than semi-auto's.

Nope that's not the case. The clips snapping has nothing to do with the headliner. You can even remove the headlining and the problem is still there: when the roof folds down, the side where the motor/rod is, is where the roof is pushed. So the other side isn't at all, creating leverage. This cause that one side retracts more/earlier. Anyways, when the roof is full retracted, there quite some tension on the trim piece. It's being bend straight, while it has a small arch shape when the roof is up. Well if you try to flatten this piece (as what happens) the weakest side will snap off. What happens a lot.
Shame, as the auto-roof trim is much nicer than semi-auto's.


Ahhhh... ok. So is there a fix for this snapped mount other than a bunch of epoxy?
-J

Ahhhh... ok. So is there a fix for this snapped mount other than a bunch of epoxy?
-J

Nope. Even the guys at local vert specialist Cabrio Care told me that's what they do too.

Mparallell..is your entire top all original from 1996?

My M3 is a 1999. And although my exterior looks fine (except for the 4 small snakebites, which I can live with), the dogear area is looking a bit rough, but the headliner itself is still looking good. All original.

Just wondering if I can make it 2 more years on this original, or just one more year. And when the time comes, do I go with a full replacement? Or just headliner

Mparallell..is your entire top all original from 1996?

My M3 is a 1999. And although my exterior looks fine (except for the 4 small snakebites, which I can live with), the dogear area is looking a bit rough, but the headliner itself is still looking good. All original.

Just wondering if I can make it 2 more years on this original, or just one more year. And when the time comes, do I go with a full replacement? Or just headliner

Mine's the original. And I'm deffo not gonna replace it anytime soon. It'll be fine as is. Just a new rear window. (which is already expensive enough).

This is a very informative thread. My problem is the top doesnt go vertical and when the lid raises it hits the top. I have to reach back and pull the lid towards the front so the lid can raise completely. Im not sure if changing the shock/s will help that. Im leaning towards tension straps.

This is a very informative thread. My problem is the top doesnt go vertical and when the lid raises it hits the top. I have to reach back and pull the lid towards the front so the lid can raise completely. Im not sure if changing the shock/s will help that. Im leaning towards tension straps.

Based upon your description, I'd agree with you. Have you tried zip tying the tension straps as a test?

No kidding mate! How could you mis that. :)

Anyways...When my headliner didn't fold correctly (and when I was too lazy to tuck it in myself) I never had any problems with the lid not closing.

After bending the rod straight (for as much as possible) the headliner tucks in 95%. So if I don't tuck it in, it's like yours now.

Since I need to get out anyways to lift up the lid (as one shock is leak) I tuck it in myself so it won't damage (I'm suprised the headliner is still so nice even though I used to not tuck it in for nearly a year with lots of topless driving).
Now I just got a call from BMW that the shocks (I ordered 2 to be sure) have arrived, so I'm gonna pick them up on friday and hopefully replace them this weekend. (Iseguy, how the hell did you manage to get them out via the storage compartement!? I can't even get my hand in there!. So I guess I have to do it via the boot.) Do you know if I need to take out the plastic storage thingy on the left side to be able to pull out bootlinings?)

How did I miss it? That's what happens when you are fumbling around/tinkering at night, in a poorly lit garage, with no one to hold a flashlight for you. :)

I warned you..it's a TIGHT fit to get your hand in that hole..if you have large hands, there might be an issue. Or it's also possible that the 328 hole is smaller than the 1999 m3 hole? But I did get my hand in there, and once it's in there, had room to maneuver and get the shock on the lower mount, then the upper mount. (or was it the other way around?)

Hmm. Plastic storage thingy on the left side? I don't have one of those. Only thing on the left/drivers side of my trunk is carpet, the black device that is part of the convertible top motor...and thats it. No storage thing at all.

.....

Hmm. Plastic storage thingy on the left side? I don't have one of those. Only thing on the left/drivers side of my trunk is carpet, the black device that is part of the convertible top motor...and thats it. No storage thing at all.

Black device? Hmm.

I have no pic, but on my left side is the same kind of thing as on the right side (the battery cover) but instead of a cover...it's a tray for the first aid kit, warning triangle and small items.

Regarding you ziptying the straps. Yesterday I dicovered there's 2 straps above each other. One going from bow 3 to 5 and one from 3 to 6 (for as far as I could feel/see).

I haven't tried it yet, but I might actually just tie these 2 together with a clip or something and see what happens.

Where and how did you ziptie them exactly?

I REALLY need to break out the camera this evening. Let me snap some pics of a few things, and we can discuss. Snakebites, the black device Im referring to, where I ziptied my smoked lenses..

Let me photograph the stuff, upload it, then make some posts.

Black device? Hmm.

I have no pic, but on my left side is the same kind of thing as on the right side (the battery cover) but instead of a cover...it's a tray for the first aid kit, warning triangle and small items.



No tray in my trunk..

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5146942

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5146941

No tray in my trunk..

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5146942

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5146941

Hmm interesting. Looks your left side has some sort of module (phone?) or CD Changer there?

I'll try and take pics of mine (still have no digital cam, shame on me and my good old Nokia 6100 also lacks one).

Here's a pic I found for reference.

http://www.europeanautosource.com/forum/dice_diy/e46/eas_diceinste460001.jpg

You can see the little tray. Mine extends towards the front of the car, as I don't have that bulky thing that's in front of it (this could be a Saloon)

Ahh. Gotcha. The US models have those little black discs that reference a phone/cd changer option, but the actual devices arent where the little black discs are. My changer is actually mounted in the trunk, but directly behind the rear passenger seat. I have no idea if I even have any sort of phone connection.

That looks like the E46 trunk, with the little tray & CD changer on the left.

Many thanks for all the useful posts. For months now my soft top storage compartment lid has jammed against the rearmost bow when opening (bow should have been vertical but wasn't) and I have been dreading the garage bills looming to sort this out. After an hour (and my first) on this forum, and 20 minutes DIYing, its now fixed.

One post mentioned using something like bungee straps (but without the hooks of course) to support the action of the tensioning straps in pulling the rearmost bow to the upright vertical position when opening the soft top. I asked in my local parts shop (Slaithwaite!!) if they had anything like a very thick elastic band and explained why. They didn't, but as I was leaving the shop my now best mate behind the counter who was still thinking hard called out ("Bicycle inner tubes!") And what a perfect solution it turned out to be. Got home and got an ordinary 26" mountain bike inner-tube. With a pair of scissors I cut across the tube either side of the valve to get rid of it then cut the remaining length in half. I then raised the roof until the rear bow was in the upright position and just before the storage lid was to begin opening. In this position it was very easy to see and get to the tensioning straps both sides of the roof. The straps between the rearmost two bows have loops in them towards either end. For each side I simply threaded a piece of inner tube through the two loops, pulled it tight, double knotted it, trimmed off the ends and pushed it between the liner and the roof. It works absolutely perfectly: the rearmost bow is now pulled vertical to allow the storage lid to raise without touching it and when the roof lowers into the storage compartment it no longers throws itself in with a thud but settles backwards in a very controlled manner.

It may be that come winter I may have to think again in that the thickness of the inner tube touching both outer hood and liner may mean water ingress but I'm going to see. The mend is so easily reversible that I'm not worried and there remains the option of using thinner racing cycle inner tube or something similar.

Many thanks to my parts shop man for his brainwave and to all posts on the soft top jamming/tension straps threads. Nice one and much appreciated.

Great fix!.

If the inner tube does end up giving you an issue, another option is to use two zip ties. Grab the tension strap at the same location, fold it slightly in half, then use the zip tie to wrap around the fold, and pull/cinch the zip tie tight. Do this for both tension straps, and it effectively reduces the length/adds tension, to both tension straps.

Great fix!.

If the inner tube does end up giving you an issue, another option is to use two zip ties. Grab the tension strap at the same location, fold it slightly in half, then use the zip tie to wrap around the fold, and pull/cinch the zip tie tight. Do this for both tension straps, and it effectively reduces the length/adds tension, to both tension straps.

I still wonder, did you put the ziptie right through the band or around it?

(..)

Many thanks to my parts shop man for his brainwave and to all posts on the soft top jamming/tension straps threads. Nice one and much appreciated.

Great fix.

The problem I had with pulling the straps tight with the rear bow verticalis that I pulled them so tight, the rearbow couldn't get fully down anymore!

So I think it would be better to do this with the rearbow being horizontal.

Where did you access the straps? I did mine when the roof was half open in between the C-pillar and the dogears.

I also have one thing left I want to try. I notices that above the dogears, there's 2 straps on top of each other. But not sewed together. I might try do make them sit in top of each other and check what happens then.

And nice that the rea bow doesn't drop (I thought this was normal!). Can never be good for all the glued and sewed parts because it drops with quite some force.

I still wonder, did you put the ziptie right through the band or around it?

I grabbed the tension straps from the rear, folded in half (or actually less than half), then wrapped the zip tie around, and squeezed tight.
I'll take a pic tonight of how I did it, and post it. Keep in mind, I removed after I determined it was the storage cover shocks, not the tension straps that was my issue.

Thanks for the ziptie option: will use this if there are any future problems.
Got to the straps from the rear with the roof opened to the point where the storage lid was about to open. Roof and liner are very slack at this point and everything's accessible. Rear bow still went down enough after the fix: maybe I was lucky to get the tension right when tying the tubes off and/or the elasticity of the tubes meant that weight of the rear bow section of the roof was enough to pull everything nicely back down into place on closing the roof up again. I'll count my blessings that the fix went well! Be back soon to see the ziptie pics. Need to find a thread now on 318s kangarooing in first gear. Take more than a bicycle tube for this one I'll bet...

I grabbed the tension straps from the rear, folded in half (or actually less than half), then wrapped the zip tie around, and squeezed tight.
I'll take a pic tonight of how I did it, and post it. Keep in mind, I removed after I determined it was the storage cover shocks, not the tension straps that was my issue.

I'd swear you did the zipties right through them (as I did) because you mentioned them being elastic enough to do (which is indeed the case).

Anyways, I have two new lidshock, but f**cling HELL :mad they are in an unreachable spot for me.

They could have easily enlarged the gaps in the boot to acces them. And I can't get my hand in the holes in the storage.

Also, while trying to pull that sort of lockhandle thingy on the top points, I just broke it off.

It also took me an hour to find out they need to go off by pushing them outwards, not inwards! (Stupid!).
I should've read your procedure again (what I will do now).

I will take of my cover lid so I can have the boot open while the shock are extended. I think they will do much damage if I try taking them off while on full load my the closed lid.


But I have a bigger issue now. (see new topic)

Iseguy, (and others)

I replaced one of the gasshocks of the roof lid and yes, it worked a treat.

Was definitely leak. And while it still doesn't push the bumpstop fully against the bodywork, it's enough to make the rear bow come down without bumping against it.

And now the biggest tip I can give....

...remove the lid!! It's just 4 10mm bolts (I had a friend help me for this)

This way (you need to insert something so the microswitch (on the right lock hinge) won't activate the interlock (I used a large allen key) you can have the hinges AND the lit FULLY open at once.

Why is this good? Because now you can install the gasshock while it's fully extended. So no need at all to try and sqeeze it together in a place where my hands won't go.

Now all that's left is do the tension strap trick and my roof should be FULLY ELECTRIC again :D

Hi all,

Just found the forum the other day looking for a solution to the same exact issues. Thanks for all the good advice!

1. Gas springs replacement. I've read the entire thread, and actually ended up replacing both springs from the outside!!! Now, in the passenger side I still had to take the carpets and stuff out, since the spring jumped on me ad fell somewhere unreachable from the outside. In the driver side it worked like a dream. NO work in the trunk, and with the lit fully on. All I did was to remove the bump stops as recommended below. To get off the spring I tool it off at the bottom first using a long hedge cutter (yes to cut hedges). At the top it's really easy just pushing the black metal bars as described above. Mounting the new one I reached down and pushed it on at the bottom first, and then mounted the top while pushing against the lit. Easy.

On the tension straps I tried a paper clip trick to shorten the straps. It didn't work, since the tension straps are too old and inflexible. I've added a short bungeestrap in each side incl. hooks and everything holding on the same bars as the tension straps. Now it works like a dream. Why the worry about using the bungee straps?

Thanks again.

Here is where I tested ziptying the Tension Straps. I grabbed the straps at the last bow, folded, then while still pinching together the two sides of the strap, I used the other hand to ziptie.

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5166762

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5166761

Perhaps this was the wrong place? Either way, when I foldeD TOO much during my test, the top would not open all the way. The roof would get 1/3 way open, then freeze. So I removed them completely, especially after I found it was my gas shocks that were the issue.

The Remove the Lid tip is excellent. Never thought of it. I'll edit my original writeup and put that line in there..with credit to you of course.

Also, while trying to pull that sort of lockhandle thingy on the top points, I just broke it off.

It also took me an hour to find out they need to go off by pushing them outwards, not inwards!

doh!

LSEGUY wrote in the writeup:
Yep! That's them. That lever is kind of soft metal, so don't apply too much pressure on it when removing the old shocks, and installing the new ones. You push outwards on them to release the upper part of the shock from it's mount, and also push outwards on them to slip them onto the mount.

doh!

LSEGUY wrote in the writeup:
Yep! That's them. That lever is kind of soft metal, so don't apply too much pressure on it when removing the old shocks, and installing the new ones. You push outwards on them to release the upper part of the shock from it's mount, and also push outwards on them to slip them onto the mount.

Must have missed that part. Also, with the new shock in hand, I thought I needed to pull the lever upwards, not to the side.
But after examining it later (when one was already fitted) I saw that lifting the up does "free the hole" on one side but not the other.

Oh well, you learn something new everyday :)

LOL. I did the SAME thing you did. Broke my drivers side off the EXACT same way you did. Fortunately the new shocks come with the levers installed, so I was able to re-use an old one from one of the old shocks. So no harm done.

Are you going to replace the other shock that wasnt leaking? You should..