So , where should one draw the line on a car with rust issues ? when is it beyond reason when a car runs great ?

I'd say if its huge in the worst places ie. towers, floor pans, sills, etc. Most of the time youy can probably get a clean shell and swap over all the running gear into it for less than fixing major rust.

Something that cant be patched up

badly roted towers (with big holes), bad rear 1/4s (a big one) , badly roted rocker panels (not the outer seal, the panels that are inside, and big holes instead of floors.

If you do the body work yourself you may get away with some of those "projects", but not if it requires all three.

Also remember about the paint. If the paint is done for, there is nothing to save....

paint? paint is the easiest thing to fix?!?

think of your 02 as a late 80's junk bond. It will be worth moe to yo than the market. How much do you want to love it????

id say forget it if the rockers are rusted. also the rear fender wells in the trunk. anythign else is minor to those repairs.

paint? paint is the easiest thing to fix?!?

The only reason I say that is beacause a quality full package job will run into $5000 and up. The paint on my car: all my panels are very straight, no old paint under the paint and it has been painted inside as well (Truck, engine bay, hood) including the door jambs. A few dings and scratches, neglect since then, it still looks very nice, considering that the paint is around 7 years old

I think replacement of the rockers, floors and towers would be closer to this sum.

Also I dont agree that rusted floors are that big of a deal. A cheap ass mig will do the job just right. Floor panels are avaiable form some sources. IF you are handy enought you can mold this 20-22 gage tin with some poor man's tools very easily.

The rocker panel skin, roted from outside, is a very easy fix and affordable. The thng is the if yours has rusted through from inside it might as well have rust on inside too. But in 80% cases it is usually treatable without major surgery.


I personally think that the major rust killer is the shock tower/wheel well rust that was neglected for too long. See the pic. This should well illustrate what I mean:
http://www.2002tii-restoration.org/images/quarter_passenger_10_800.jpg


(http://www.2002tii-restoration.org/images/quarter_passenger_10_800.jpg)

If you can do the work yourself...it can be a bit of a learning experience..it sure was for me. If you are paying someone else to do it..thats an entirely different ballgame. I was quoted $10k + just for the bodywork on my car, ready for paint. And that was a start. Keep in mind normal bodyshops don't really want to do this kind of work, they make way more money on collision work. So I just bought all the tools and supplies needed, and did everything myself, from metal to filler to primer and paint. Not a pro job, but extremly satisfying, kinda fun, and a hell of a lot cheaper. And now I have a bunch of cool tools, and even do some amateur bodywork on the side for friends. Painted our racecar and a couple others too. So if you have the option of space and some spare time, I'd strongly recommend trying some of this yourself. I had a 'bodyguy' friend of mine show me the ropes, as well as use sites like autobodystore.com and hotrodder.com..

Outer rockers aren't bad..but there is always the chance that when you open them up...some or all of the inners are bad too. Thats where the fun begins..you start replacing inners..then you take off the outer 1/4 arch..then realize the inner is shot, then have to rebuild inner wheelwheels, then may as well do the entre 1/4, etc etc.

My advice is to set limits BEFORE you start the work...if you open up an area and its worse than you thought...then simply cut your losses, part it out, and move on.

Ask me how I know :(

http://www.disimilar.com/album/v/matt/BMW2002/body/

Matt

I dont even consider paint when looking at cars this old, most will need a respray at least

if you want a show paint job, your gonna pay for it

If you can do the work yourself...it can be a bit of a learning experience..it sure was for me. If you are paying someone else to do it..thats an entirely different ballgame. I was quoted $10k + just for the bodywork on my car, ready for paint. And that was a start. Keep in mind normal bodyshops don't really want to do this kind of work, they make way more money on collision work. So I just bought all the tools and supplies needed, and did everything myself, from metal to filler to primer and paint. Not a pro job, but extremly satisfying, kinda fun, and a hell of a lot cheaper. And now I have a bunch of cool tools, and even do some amateur bodywork on the side for friends. Painted our racecar and a couple others too. So if you have the option of space and some spare time, I'd strongly recommend trying some of this yourself. I had a 'bodyguy' friend of mine show me the ropes, as well as use sites like autobodystore.com and hotrodder.com..

Outer rockers aren't bad..but there is always the chance that when you open them up...some or all of the inners are bad too. Thats where the fun begins..you start replacing inners..then you take off the outer 1/4 arch..then realize the inner is shot, then have to rebuild inner wheelwheels, then may as well do the entre 1/4, etc etc.

My advice is to set limits BEFORE you start the work...if you open up an area and its worse than you thought...then simply cut your losses, part it out, and move on.

Ask me how I know :(

http://www.disimilar.com/album/v/matt/BMW2002/body/

Matt

Matt,

The quarter 7 dialog cracked me up.:help

In truth, it is only funny once you have been there, looked into the abyss made your decission and pushed on past the issue. I have to admit that there were many times years ago when I wanted to vommit when I encountered something like that.:lol

Word of advice, find a shop that specializes in repairing old cars, preferably 2002s. A general autobody repair shop may cut into your car and have no idea what they are going to find. If you are not going to do the work yourself, spend the extra cash to transport your shell to an experienced 2002 body shop.

My cabriolet looked nice when I got it. 9000.00 later it really was nice. Lots of new metal etc. Guess what 2 years after the complete body job, rust is popping through on the rear qtr. As far as I know except for washing, it was never wet. It was already in there waiting to rear its ugly head again.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b372/merlin530i/1600%20cab%20original/img004.jpgbefore
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b372/merlin530i/1600%20cab%20original/img008.jpg during
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b372/merlin530i/1600%20cab%20original/SuperChargedCar00120.jpg
After

if your looking for a rust free or semi rust free car look for the loved "cali" car

Yeah, I got lucky when I bought mine. Me and my father didn't really know what to expect when looking for an 02. It just so happens that the one we picked up is COMPLETELY rust free, all except for around the sunroof, which has already been taken care of ;)

Its also FS btw :D
$1500 with a swapped in rebuilt motor

thats because yours is a Cali car and a 76'. Why are you selling it?

I found a MINT condition 91 318iS that the guy will basicly give me for $1000!
I love my 02, but E30's are wayyyy sexy :rolleyes

I found a MINT condition 91 318iS that the guy will basicly give me for $1000!

I hate you

hehehe :D it has no forsell sign on it either, and i highly doubt the guy put it up on craigslist :rryum

I found a MINT condition 91 318iS that the guy will basicly give me for $1000!
I love my 02, but E30's are wayyyy sexy :rolleyes

Lies, nothing is sexier than an 02, especially those big bumpers.. mmm mmmm.

hahaha
I don't like the bumpers, I wish I could take em off but my papa won't let me
owells
stock E30 > stock 02 :D

O2 is the ultimate driving machine

idkkkk. my friend keeps telling me his 1985 AE86 Corolla GTS will smoke me all day once he gets suspension and breaks put on. even if i get a S14 swap with suspension + fiberglass hood/trunk, i'll still lose. But iono. does anyone know what car im talking about? He keeps telling me it's because his car is balanced, and also because of the wheelbase the car has.

maybe if he's done engine work, those cars have 110 hp stock, and weight 2300 pounds

the e30 is a bit porky for the 318i engine though

I think they have 130... but he put a higher compression 4AGE in it. so its packin like 145 now. i dont really like this guy, because he talks soooooooo much trash and thinks he's completely superior to everybody because of the car he has. i wana get that E30 and show him whos boss :mad

that E30 is probably slower than a mildly tuned 02

How bad is rust?

Imagine Death was chasing you, with an IRS audit in one hand, a used ball gag in the other, and a doctor with a colonoscope behind him.

That is how bad rust is.

As the saying goes, (as far as the E9) I can hear it at night, rusting.

A resto shop will usually give you a far better deal than a general body shop, since as others mentioned, a body shop is more into collision, not resto. Most body shops wanted a leg, an arm, my first born, and 15k to fix up my coupe, which was in slightly rough shape. In comparison, the resto guy currently working on my coupe was much more reasonable at 7.5 for the body+paint. He normally does motorcycle collision for his cash flow, but restos for dead periods.

Imagine Death was chasing you, with an IRS audit in one hand, a used ball gag in the other, and a doctor with a colonoscope behind him.

That is how bad rust is.


Nice analogy but I'm sure it varies depending on where you live. But your analogy does sound like my area(midwest w/snow) :D

idkkkk. my friend keeps telling me his 1985 AE86 Corolla GTS will smoke me all day once he gets suspension and breaks put on.

It's all in the driver. People concentrate too much these days on mods and not enough on improving their driving skills. It sounds like your friend has been watching too many Best Motoring videos with the Touge runs. :rolleyes

BTW, Spring "Break" <> "Brake" Calipers LOL. :stickoutt

It's all in the driver. People concentrate too much these days on mods and not enough on improving their driving skills. It sounds like your friend has been watching too many Best Motoring videos with the Touge runs. :rolleyes

yah he has. but his profession drifting buddy who makes custom aircraft aluminum suspension parts tells him that once he gets full suspesion, hes going 2 beat his s2k on certain touge's. hands down. i think its funny tho, cuz he'll try and outrun me sometimes, and i'll stay right on his tale :lol3

that E30 is probably slower than a mildly tuned 02

hehe wouldn't be surprised

i doubt that

m42 > m10
+ the E30 has a 5speed and a LSD
:dunno

and extra weight, that's the problem

How much more weight is it?

the 2002's run about 2200 pounds at 110-130hp depending on version

the e30 318is's weight 2500 pounds at 140hp


funny how 10 years and FI/Spark control only gained 10-20 hp!

you wont find many stock 2002 engine cars anymore, most have carb/cam upgrades, I've got a korman stage 2 setup, that puts mine around 140hp, a build tii runs 160hp

240 hop S 14 in a reduced weight 02, ahh the life.

but your selling it

you'll regret it

i doubt that

m42 > m10
+ the E30 has a 5speed and a LSD
:dunno

My Tii: 5spd w/3.91 LSD, ~140 hp at the crank, ~2100lbs
My 318is: 5spdw/4.10 LSD, ~130hp at the crank, ~ 2600lbs

there is noway my 2002 is putting down 110. my friends stock honda 4door dx burns me by like 3 car lengths if he is trying... and hes only pushing 90-100. But I am most likely going to keep it...*sigh*

probably needs a tune up, when was the last time the points were cleaned and the valves adjusted?

Here is an example of cutting your losses and getting another chassis which I am happy to say is in the workings. I found a guy about 200 miles from me with a car that had an engine fire but has a small amount of rust on it. Working on making a deal and then going to pick it up.

I can fix rust and have done to school for auto collision/ auto restoration but some times its just way easier to get another car. As cheap as these are your dumb not too. Its it was a late 60's muscle car I'd say different.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/kesslerbmw/My%20cars/IMG_7794Large.jpg

Does that car in the pic has its rocker skins cut out? And why is it sitting so high?

if your looking for a rust free or semi rust free car look for the loved "cali" car

X2

A resto shop will usually give you a far better deal than a general body shop, since as others mentioned, a body shop is more into collision, not resto. Most body shops wanted a leg, an arm, my first born, and 15k to fix up my coupe, which was in slightly rough shape. In comparison, the resto guy currently working on my coupe was much more reasonable at 7.5 for the body+paint. He normally does motorcycle collision for his cash flow, but restos for dead periods.

mmmm....I should try and find one. I also got a high quote from a body shop on painting my 320i (no panels replaced)

Rust is a PAIN. It is expensive and little can be done to stop the spread. The longer you wait to repair the rust the more there will be

Hey, I got a white 73' 2002, I had it tuned and fixed the clutch and brakes about a year ago, that was the last time I drove it. It has a rusty floor panel on the driver side, other than that, its in pretty good shape.I've owned this car since '77 (2nd 0wner),I took real good care of it until the windshield leaked in water to the floor panel.I stopped driving it regularly after I got married and have a family. I need the space for my garage, can't afford to do a full restoration now with family needs. I had many wonderful memories and want to keep it as long as I could. A good home is what she needs, where should I start? thank you

Hey, I got a white 73' 2002, I had it tuned and fixed the clutch and brakes about a year ago, that was the last time I drove it. It has a rusty floor panel on the driver side, other than that, its in pretty good shape.I've owned this car since '77 (2nd 0wner),I took real good care of it until the windshield leaked in water to the floor panel.I stopped driving it regularly after I got married and have a family. I need the space for my garage, can't afford to do a full restoration now with family needs. I had many wonderful memories and want to keep it as long as I could. A good home is what she needs, where should I start? thank you

If you are interested in keeping it, I can give you the names of a couple of restoration shops in the Atlanta area. (well... a little bit beyond the Atlanta area, 1hr+ drive to some of them)