I am starting this thread becouse it had become a hijack of another..

This is what I did becouse I have no life other than my cars!!!
I did use Lee's kit to start but then made some changes to rotor size and the calipers the kit is designed for..I have many freinds with big machine toys in their garages...and they have no other life.

I used Wilwood SPR rotors 11.75 x 20.6mm they are 8 LBS. with Lees hats.
The ultra light 11.75 x 31.8mm rotors are 9.6 LBS. And are for sure warp proof on our light cars.
I have not had any warping yet, but if I do I will switch to the bigger rotors and Superlight calipers.

I used Dynapro calipers now that do not have as large a pad area as the Superlights. The Dynapro is a radial mount that has dust boots,(read, lots more machine work) I live in a wet climate and got a GREAT deal on them..Or they would be just to much $$

Here are pictures of Lee's kit, using 31.8mm directional vane rotors, and Superlights with my front 15 x 6 Alpina wheels and the last picture is my current setup with 16" Hardy&Beck wheels. The Superlights fit without inner wheel weights.

http://e21.tricord.be/members/jdb/br1.jpg
http://e21.tricord.be/members/jdb/br3.jpg
http://e21.tricord.be/members/jdb/br2.jpg
http://e21.tricord.be/members/jdb/brake.jpg

Jeff

Dang, that is awesome. Is Lee a buddy or a parts supplier, or both?

I want to go to a larger 270mm rotor for my current volvo brake setup, any ideas on where to get a custom floating rotor like you have?

Dang, that is awesome. Is Lee a buddy or a parts supplier, or both?

I want to go to a larger 270mm rotor for my current volvo brake setup, any ideas on where to get a custom floating rotor like you have?

if you went bigger what would you do with your brakes you have on now?

Dang, that is awesome. Is Lee a buddy or a parts supplier, or both?

I want to go to a larger 270mm rotor for my current volvo brake setup, any ideas on where to get a custom floating rotor like you have?

Talk to Lee about machining, you some hats. Dont you work in a machine shop of some sorts? I bet he has CAD files of the hats.

Dang, that is awesome. Is Lee a buddy or a parts supplier, or both?

I want to go to a larger 270mm rotor for my current volvo brake setup, any ideas on where to get a custom floating rotor like you have?

So Jeff, I take it this kit is a direct bolt on?

What is the difference between the superlight calpiers and the Dynapro calipers ones..is price the only consideration?? Who sells them and what do they run?

Also do you need a master cylinder setup or t fittings like the volvo upgrade?

Hi Al

The Superlite caliper is a full race caliper that is very stiff. That extra stiffness comes with extra aluminum and therefore takes a bit more space. The Dynalite caliper is slightly narrower (0.25"), has a slightly smaller overall radius (by about 4mm), uses 16mm thick pads (versus 20mm for the Superlite) and uses a maximum of 1" thick rotors (vs 1.38" for the Superlite).

The Superlite sells around $120/$125 (I don't know how much is the Dynalite) and rotors are from $25 to $50.

Such a Monstrous brake kit is only required on the street for the "wow" factor. But on the track, it is a safety measure. You will outbrake anyone on a track, lap after lap. The power and consistance is phenomenal.

If there is any interest for a group buy on this website, I will ask permission to the administrators and pay a fee to them as a commercial sponsor. I currently design and produce brakes for the whole 3 series line-up, from the 2002 to the e46. And I race a 1969 2002... So, I am an enthusiast too. he, he.
I basically design and sell the basic kits but will soon distribute Wilwood products too. Jeff explored the possibilities around my kit and I believe it is great. The hats are the toughest part of the kit, so he only had to work around them and make some radial mounts. My kits come with stainless steel mounts for Superlite calipers and can be ordered without ($50 saving) if you want to design your own system. Anybody with fitting questions can email me and I will send you a pdf file of the kit mock-up. Print it on 11" x 17" paper, back it on cardboard, cut it out and apply to the back of your wheel. Jeff has acquired a lot of knowledge with his own development around the kit and has first hand expertise. If he wants, he could even supply the radial mounts for the Dyna calipers, while I supply the hats and bolts without the Superlite calipers.

BTW all hats are now anodized. Gold, clear or dark grey (gun metal) depending on the consensus...

If you guys want to see my production album. Those are not one-offs but either full fledge production, or testing.
(copy & paste)
smg.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/The%20Parts%20Factory/

if you went bigger what would you do with your brakes you have on now?

The Volvo calipers mounting holes are slotted to fit the stock 250mm (?) rotors. With them pushed all the way out I can run a 270mm caliper. Maybe it's a small difference but I figure it would be worth it on the track. For now my car just sees auto cross, I feel the volvo setup should be adequate for what I'm doing. However, I feel the stock rotors may have a weakness at high speed braking, meaning 100+ mph to the speed limit. This has not suprising happened much more often after the turbo.

Talk to Lee about machining, you some hats. Dont you work in a machine shop of some sorts? I bet he has CAD files of the hats.

I work as a manufacturing engineer in a manufacturing facility. I don't have access to a machine shop, the system is controlled very tightly... Unless I could convince them the hats are a new set of assembly tooling for a new work cell I'm putting in. :devillook There is a tool and die shop that I could probably have make them if I had a CAD file.

Lee, how much would a set of hats cost if I had you make them? Are you opposed to sending me a CAD file? Ah, you edited while I was typing. emailed.

Very nice.

Lee - Can we host the fitment PDF somewhere so others can check fitment? I have to check the 2 sets of wheels I have.

Very nice.

Lee - Can we host the fitment PDF somewhere so others can check fitment? I have to check the 2 sets of wheels I have.

Can I attach a pdf file here? I am currently having a website done and it will not be done before two weeks. The website will have ample pictures and will host the pdf files for each model. If somebdoy wants to host them for me, I can email him/her the pdf files.

Thanks

that's pretty awesome! haha, so Jeff, i guess it's only a matter of time before you install another set of Wilwoods on the rear? :D

When I come up w/ the funds, I'd be down for a group buy.

Seen these in person and all i can say is that they are the complete hotness! Well done Jeff!

swweet action! i'd be up with the group buy also.

Hi every one. This kit is now on its 4th generation. Every new generation sees a slight change in some details. For this group buy, if it happens, the hats will be slightly conical instead of going in straight. Cones make for even strong structures. Not that the old one had any problem, but why not improve if we can? Also, the new brackets will position the caliper parallel to its original position, instead than pivoted around the wheel's center. Email me for mock-ups in pdf format if you want to check the fit with your wheels. All fasteners are supplied, as well as the hydraulic fittings. 1/8NPT to AN4, AN4 to 10mmx1.

Thanks all.

How much of a benifit is the group buy? From reading on 2002faq I gather the total price to be $910, or $500 for your parts.

How much of a benifit is the group buy? From reading on 2002faq I gather the total price to be $910, or $500 for your parts.

Yes, the installation kit is indeed $500 (including the anodized CNC'd hats, laser cut stainless steel brackets, fasteners and fitttings, and there is about $400 worth of calipers, rotors and pads, that you can buy either from me (parts shipped from Wilwood) or for your usual supplier.

Yes, the installation kit is indeed $500 (including the anodized CNC'd hats, laser cut stainless steel brackets, fasteners and fitttings, and there is about $400 worth of calipers, rotors and pads, that you can buy either from me (parts shipped from Wilwood) or for your usual supplier.

the calipers you can find on Jegs, summit, or un ebay (under race car parts) same as the rotors. Pads jegs, summit, I/O port, Racer Wholesale, etc. I was already researching the parts prices... :cool :devillook
Consirering the vented calipers are 200 and 400(driver side) at bavauto, this doesn't seem too expensive. Lert mw know if you get thru with the group buy

If you guys want to ad your name to the list I started of 2002faq.com (classifieds section), or simply email me at massivebrakes@gmail.com, I can put you on the list. This is not a commitment from anyone's part for now. If you email me, I will send you a pdf file of the mock-up so that you can check fitment of the kit. BTW All similar kits are priced around $1500, so I guess I do not offer a bad deal. I will wait until Tuesday evening. I am trying to go ahead as soon as possible. I need two weeks to produce the parts, a few days to have them anodized (probably pimpy yellow, or techno Gun Metal) and ship them. The target is that everyone gets their precious little parcel by December 1st. Just in time to put under the Xmas tree... BTW I will take Paypal and bite the fee.

BTW here is the parts list if you want to shop around.

If you have a big MC (23.8 or 25.4mm): 120-7429 R/L with 1.75" pistons.
It has 160% more surface. Requires 160% more fluid than 1.38"
What is stock caliper piston size?

If you have a reg MC: 120-7431 R/L with 1.38" pistons



11.75" x 1.25" HD rotors: 160-3846/3847
11.75" x 1.25" UL directional vanes: 160-2898/2899

Pads: the compound you prefer with the 7420 pad shape
15Q 6829 Q compound from Polymatrix. Great all around, not too dusty. Smooth on disc.

I have a thick folder on brake specs for BMW stuff that I put together.
I did alot of homework before I bought the hats from Lee.
The price on them was resonable compared to the time and amount of chips I would have to clean up off the floor by doing it myself.

E21 master piston dia. is 20.64mm Caliper pistons are 2 @ 48mm; 96mm total area.
E12 is 23.8mm... you would have to plug 2 brake line outlets

There is a 7 series master that I have no spec. for but it is alum. and has 3outlets, It was from the same vinage (80's) and I imagine it's specs are about the same as the E12 since the calipers have the same size pistons..
4 @ 40mm; 160mm total area

So the Wilwood's with 4-1.38 (35mm) have a area of 140mm
The 1.75 (44.5) have a area of 178mm
I used Dynapro's with 1.62 (41.1mm) area of 164.4mm with the stock 323 master and there is good pedal. It moves a little farther than with stock calipers of course, but it is very useable and the high speed braking is like a different car!
This is the real reson for doing this for me, I was able to overheat the rotors and stability at +100 MPH was not very good, even with high zoot heat treated,sloted, cross drilled high $$ stock size rotors....

I hope all these specs. help someone.. Hell I have alot more!!!
Jeff

Hi Jeff. You did some great work. Nonetheless, allow me to correct you on a few points. To compare pressures/fluid volumes between calipers when knowing the diameter, you must calculate the piston area, not just the diameter. It rises exponentially (sq.). Per exemple, a piston with twice the diameter will have 4 times the area. Here is how to calculate this area.

Let's use the case of the front calipers with two 48mm opposite pistons. Let's first calculate for one piston with pi=3.1415

(48mm x 48mm) x 3.1415 /4=1809sq.mm or 18.09sq.cm
The caliper may have two pistons, but the areas will not add, as they are opposite pistons. One piston will counter act against the opposite one.

So, to pick a Wilwood caliper that gives the same pedal feel and torque, one must find a caliper with similar swept area (and not swept diameter like was said on the previous post).

One Wilwood caliper has four 1.75" (44,5mm) pistons, or two effective pistons. (44,5mm x 44,5mm) x 3.1415 / 4= 15.55sq.cm x 2 pistons = 31,1sq.cm

The next caliper of choice has 1.38" (35,05mm) pistons. With 9.64sq.cm per piston x 2 for the whole caliper = 19,28sq.cm.

Comparing the 18.09 sq.cm piston area of the stock e21 caliper and the 19,28sq.cm piston area of the Wilwood caliper with 1.38" pistons, we can notice that they are about equal and that therefore, the smaller Wilwood will give the same pedal feel. One can highlight that thanks to the principle of hydraulic lever, the Wilwood 1.38" pistons caliper will have less torque than the one with 1.75" pistons.

Using the bigger caliper would mean more torque but more pedal travel too.

As far as master cylinders go, I strongly suggest the use of the 25.4mm 750iL master. It has two outlets and will require a splitter for the front linnes. That splitter is the same as the one used to split the rear lines under the trunk. Using a bigger MC will push more fluid, which means it will have less pedal travel for same fluid, at the expense of a stiffer pedal.

Racers will want a bigger MC and do not care how stiff the pedal is. If it were stiff and still as a brick wall, it would be perfect.

You mentioned you sell the hats, but i dont really see anywhere listed with a price just for them?

You mentioned you sell the hats, but i dont really see anywhere listed with a price just for them?

Hi MadHatter. It was mentionned, but perhaps not clearly. Anodized hats/laser cut stainless brackets/fasteners/fittings for $500usd. Paypal welcome. Email me if you want the mock-up in pdf format. Buyers who live in far-away isle may elect to have some custom rotors made locally to save on shipping. I can give all specs.

No, just hats. No fittings, none of the other stuff :) . Is that $500 each, or a pair?

[quote=jrcook320;7825491]The Volvo calipers mounting holes are slotted to fit the stock 250mm (?) rotors. With them pushed all the way out I can run a 270mm caliper. Maybe it's a small difference but I figure it would be worth it on the track. For now my car just sees auto cross, I feel the volvo setup should be adequate for what I'm doing. However, I feel the stock rotors may have a weakness at high speed braking, meaning 100+ mph to the speed limit. This has not suprising happened much more often after the turbo.



well i kinda ment what would you do with your old brakes?

No, just hats. No fittings, none of the other stuff. Is that $500 each, or a pair?

Price of $500usd is for the complete installation kit (2 hats, 2 brackets, 4 fittings, all bolts). I can sell just the hats and fasteners to the rotors. For $430usd + $35usd for 4-day shipping.

I am down for a kit..or the group buy provided it will work on 15 x6.5 BBS marhle rims.

I am down for a kit..or the group buy provided it will work on 15 x6.5 BBS marhle rims.

Simply email me at massivebrakes@gmail.com and I will send you a pdf file of the mock-up. Print it on 11" x 17", back it on cardboard and cut it out. Then just apply to the back side of your wheel. The fitmenty depends more on the shape of the wheel than simply the offset. The calipers clear my Kosei K1 with et27, as well as my Ronal ACT LS with et25. I am starting a batch of 12 kits this coming Wednesday after I end the GB. I already have the new design stainless steel brackets that put the caliper parallel to its original position.