Thanks! I just picked up a copy too.

Wish they drove my car now cause it drives at least ten folds better than before. :)

If you don't mind me asking, what was done to it? I thought it left ICS with the power figures in your sig? :confused

If you don't mind me asking, what was done to it? I thought it left ICS with the power figures in your sig? :confused

The car left us with MAXED out injectors, so the only way to rescale larger injectors and a retune was to send the car to AA @ that point in time.

The car left us with MAXED out injectors, so the only way to rescale larger injectors and a retune was to send the car to AA @ that point in time.

The article stated that ICS installed a proprietary fuel kit that addressed the fuel issues and that it was well tuned and ran great. I enjoyed the article, and am disappointed to learn that it was incomplete at a minimum and inaccurate or misleading at the worst. Can the owner of the car contact Pablo Mazlumian to get a follow up article on the work subsequently done by AA on the car to make it right?

Philip Bradley

The article stated that ICS installed a proprietary fuel kit that addressed the fuel issues and that it was well tuned and ran great. I enjoyed the article, and am disappointed to learn that it was incomplete at a minimum and inaccurate or misleading at the worst. Can the owner of the car contact Pablo Mazlumian to get a follow up article on the work subsequently done by AA on the car to make it right?

Philip Bradley

You're a funny guy..... its like someone we all know is talking through you. I know the deal. The car left us @ that time in point running excellent, the customer even stated publically on a thread my car never ran sooo good what should I do? Unfortunately the customer ran through a puddle of watter and damaged the air mass sensor. It was driven down to us we installed a new sensor and from there agreed since the injectors where being maxed out that something should be done about it. So @ that point in time it was sent to AA to install larger injectors and to redo the mapping. Would you personally like to see the run file when the article was written and when the car made the 533rwhp? :confused

What say we start a new thread to have a high school argument about Sean's car?

Then we can get back to the high school arguments between the twin screw kits on this thread.

"Springsteen, Madonna, and way before Nirvana..."

Back to high school we go!!

You're a funny guy..... its like someone we all know is talking through you. I know the deal. The car left us @ that time in point running excellent, the customer even stated publically on a thread my car never ran sooo good what should I do? Unfortunately the customer ran through a puddle of watter and damaged the air mass sensor. It was driven down to us we installed a new sensor and from there agreed since the injectors where being maxed out that something should be done about it. So @ that point in time it was sent to AA to install larger injectors and to redo the mapping. Would you personally like to see the run file when the article was written and when the car made the 533rwhp? :confused

I have no doubt that ICS can produce a 533 rwhp dyno sheet. I also have no doubt that after being tuned by AA with larger injectors and HFM elimination, the same car made 510 rwhp.

We just want the follow up so we learn what it takes to make 500+ rwhp reliably on an S54. You don't have to be so defensive. Sometimes success comes only through failure. Look at Pablo Mazlumian's turbo M3 -- it has been partially or fully rebuilt, had its turbo reconfigured, and been retuned more than once over the years. A follow up article with AA's repair and retune would help us understand what was not done as well as it could be done and how it was made right. After all, the goal in these forums is to further the BMW performance cause. If there is more to the story than meets the eye, let's flesh it out.

Philip Bradley

You're a funny guy..... its like someone we all know is talking through you. I know the deal.

Could you point out to me any facts I have referenced that were not in either the owner's posts or your posts? Then explain who is talking through me.

You seem very defensive and have a lot of excuses. I like the one about the puddle of water damaging the air mass meter, causing the shop that brags about how it builds 1000 hp cars to suddenly realize the tune on the 500 hp car is not right and being unable to do anything except send the entire car to another tuner 1200 miles away to get fixed.

Philip Bradley

Could you point out to me any facts I have referenced that were not in either the owner's posts or your posts? Then explain who is talking through me.

You seem very defensive and have a lot of excuses. I like the one about the puddle of water damaging the air mass meter, causing the shop that brags about how it builds 1000 hp cars to suddenly realize the tune on the 500 hp car is not right and being unable to do anything except send the entire car to another tuner 1200 miles away to get fixed.

Philip Bradley

Lets get something straight..... the original tune was from AA, all we did besides build the motor which produced 100rwhp more was clean up the fuel issue, if you knew BMW and knew them well, you would know there are only certain people who can tune the factory DME. Whats your point.... And yes we did change the air mass sensor which was shorted, why dont you just contact the customer, so you get your facts straight before running your mouth..... and making assumptions.

there was U2, and Blondie, and music still on MTV...

>> I like the one about the puddle of water damaging the air mass meter, causing the shop that brags about how it builds 1000 hp cars to suddenly realize the tune on the 500 hp car is not right and being unable to do anything except send the entire car to another tuner 1200 miles away to get fixed.<<

If you read the entire post from which this notion was extracted, youll learn that the reason it was sent to AA was NOT because ICS didnt know how to deal with a broken HFM (duh!) but because, and I quote from post #179, they ".. agreed since the injectors where being maxed out that something should be done about it. So @ that point in time it was sent to AA to install larger injectors and to redo the mapping. "

Since the car was to keep its native ecu, and because at this point in time, so far as I know, the only tuner who has ready made software for this S54 was AA, the tuning for it was handled by AA..

IF George seems defensive, its only because some of you otherwise perfectly intellegent guys seem to have lost the ability to apply your reading comprehension skills. Its the same thing that happened when you asked in the afr thread, "Why does ICS have to send one of its magazine feature cars (December issue of European Car) to AA for tuning"... Why is it the same thing? Because there, too, you apparently were unable to read the article and make sense of it.. The car wasnt tuned by AA.. it was tuned by Nick G... HOw could you really read that article, and then come to the conclusion that AA had anything to do with the tuning of that car?! Whats the common thread here? In apparent zeal to attack ICS, the facts get bent in both cases. IF there are legitimate gripes against a vendor, im not even sure this is the right place to air them.. But certainly, if you deem it to be appropriate, at least, please, get the facts straight.

No doubt.

4-5 years ago this forum was cool, and informative. Now it is pretty much one never-ending pissing contest. I peruse forums for other marques, and although they sometimes get a bit pissy, I must say that the BMW aftermarket, and the enthusiasts, seem to be the most petty of any group I have seen. All of the bravado and posturing is nothing short of amazing.

Hence the "back to high school" references.

I think it has to do with many other alternative being available, meaning more competition and more camps to go along.

I still think this is the THE FORUM for everything FI for BMWs and it attracts more people as days go by. I think as long as most active participants try to stay neutral and stick to truth rather than hearsay, this forum should stay strong as it always has been. :)

Lets get something straight..... the original tune was from AA, all we did besides build the motor which produced 100rwhp more was clean up the fuel issue, if you knew BMW and knew them well, you would know there are only certain people who can tune the factory DME. Whats your point.... And yes we did change the air mass sensor which was shorted, why dont you just contact the customer, so you get your facts straight before running your mouth..... and making assumptions.

According to the information you provided to Pablo Mazlumian in the article in December 2006 EC, ICS had a performance built lower compression engine built for the owner, installed the engine for the owner, and modified the fuel system so it could keep up with the other performance modifications, among other things. The article gives complete credit to ICS for producing a completed, finished car.

According to the owner, the car was not really complete and finished. It had to be shipped to AA for tuning. While I understand that only a few people can tune the stock DME, ICS has previously advertised itself as being capable of delivering a complete package. I believe at one time ICS had a relationship with AA to provide tuning, but that AA terminated its business with ICS. This was posted here in the forums. ICS then began a relationship with NickG, who can tune the stock DME. So why did AA have to fix this car?

It seems elementary to me that if a performance engine is built and other parts are modified, the original tune will need to be revised. Merely installing parts to ensure maximum fuel delivery is far, far from the sort of retune that should accompany the 100 rwhp power bump that you claim.

You still have not pointed out what facts I don't have straight. You have also said that I am running my mouth, without any basis for doing so. From what I can tell, you botched up a customer's car and had to get bailed out by another tuner. You are not the least bit humble about it. I think it is you who are running your mouth.

Philip Bradley

Okay, before this goes on any more I will start a thread and give my version of what happened. :)

IF George seems defensive, its only because some of you otherwise perfectly intellegent guys seem to have lost the ability to apply your reading comprehension skills. Its the same thing that happened when you asked in the afr thread, "Why does ICS have to send one of its magazine feature cars (December issue of European Car) to AA for tuning"... Why is it the same thing? Because there, too, you apparently were unable to read the article and make sense of it.. The car wasnt tuned by AA.. it was tuned by Nick G... HOw could you really read that article, and then come to the conclusion that AA had anything to do with the tuning of that car?! Whats the common thread here? In apparent zeal to attack ICS, the facts get bent in both cases. IF there are legitimate gripes against a vendor, im not even sure this is the right place to air them.. But certainly, if you deem it to be appropriate, at least, please, get the facts straight.

Paul,

I have read and reread the article and both the Analyze that AFR and AA vs Eurosport TS threads. There is some overlap between the two threads, once the author of Analyze that AFR begins to post in the AA vs. Eurosport TS thread, which went off on a slight tangent to discuss dynos.

I just double checked all my facts, and cannot find any that I don't have straight, or anything I am unable to make sense of, or anything that I don't comprehend. I would suggest that you reread the article and the threads and then think again whether you are justified in accusing me of not being able to read and make sense of the article and get my facts straight.

Philip Bradley

I wouldn't normally create a thread such as this because it may seem self indulging in a way. But since there has been much talk about it lately, I figure it may be better to lay out what happened.

ICS delievered the car early this year (I believe it was in Jan/Feb) with 533 rwhp dynosheet. The car drove very well for a few months but I started to see AFR rising as weather getting warmer. When I started seeing high 13s to low 14s, I contacted ICS & AA (my car was built by ICS but still used AA software and its injectors). So my car made its way back to ICS. ICS had my car for two months or so and replaced dirty air filter and faulty fuel pressure regular along with more tuning.

I pushed for updated software from AA at the same time and ICS got the software from AA at the last minute. Call it a bad timing, ICS did not have the time to test new software and the car was delivered to me.

When I got the car and I ran it through my set of tests. After dealing with my car for 4+ years, I have my set of tests to see if everything is okay and they are pretty strict. I would say, many other FIed cars that I had chance to drive would not pass my set of "properly tuned car" test to my liking, I can be that anal when it comes to my car. :stickoutt Anyways, I found that the car was not drivable to my liking.

At this point ICS tried to have AA team come up to ICS's facility so my car can get bigger injectors and appropriate tuning for them. This did not come through and only other option left was sending my car to AA.

I admit, I did leave out some details that do not have place in this forum. But overall, ICS did their part to continue to support their magazine featured car and AA did an excellent job with larger injectors and appropriate tuning.

I hope this clears up misunderstanding that may have been circulating around. :)

I wouldn't normally create a thread such as this because it may seem self indulging in a way. But since there has been much talk about it lately, I figure it may be better to lay out what happened.

ICS delievered the car early this year (I believe it was in Jan/Feb) with 533 rwhp dynosheet. The car drove very well for a few months but I started to see AFR rising as weather getting warmer. When I started seeing high 13s to low 14s, I contacted ICS & AA (my car was built by ICS but still used AA software and its injectors). So my car made its way back to ICS. ICS had my car for two months or so and replaced dirty air filter and faulty fuel pressure regular along with more tuning.

I pushed for updated software from AA at the same time and ICS got the software from AA at the last minute. Call it a bad timing, ICS did not have the time to test new software and the car was delivered to me.

When I got the car and I ran it through my set of tests. After dealing with my car for 4+ years, I have my set of tests to see if everything is okay and they are pretty strict. I would say, many other FIed cars that I had chance to drive would not pass my set of "properly tuned car" test to my liking, I can be that anal when it comes to my car. :stickoutt Anyways, I found that the car was not drivable to my liking.

At this point ICS tried to have AA team come up to ICS's facility so my car can get bigger injectors and appropriate tuning for them. This did not come through and only other option left was sending my car to AA.

I admit, I did leave out some details that do not have place in this forum. But overall, ICS did their part to continue to support their magazine featured car and AA did an excellent job with larger injectors and appropriate tuning.

I hope this clears up misunderstanding that may have been circulating around. :)



Sean..you are my bud...but..
If you are not currently a politician, you should become one....:)

You know me over the years. George knows me well over the years as well. I always try to stay neutral and avoid making a fuss about anything unless there is absolute need for it. :stickoutt

Cool, I got one vote, it looks like! :stickoutt

Oh, one more thing, when this article was being prepare for my car, that was early this year (maybe as early as Dec 2005).

Even if the article is being prepared now, I do not see much being written differently other than giving appropriate credit to AA as yellow car gave its credit to Nick G for tuning.

Paul,

I have read and reread the article and both the Analyze that AFR and AA vs Eurosport TS threads. There is some overlap between the two threads, once the author of Analyze that AFR begins to post in the AA vs. Eurosport TS thread, which went off on a slight tangent to discuss dynos.

I just double checked all my facts, and cannot find any that I don't have straight, or anything I am unable to make sense of, or anything that I don't comprehend. I would suggest that you reread the article and the threads and then think again whether you are justified in accusing me of not being able to read and make sense of the article and get my facts straight.

Philip Bradley

What Im really questioning, Philip, is this vendetta you seem to have embarked on, wrt ICS... The article was what it was...Do you think this is the proper forum for you to go off, waving at windmills, hell bent on exposing what you perceive to be some kind of impropriety? I personally do not feel this is the place for that... What next.. Do you want all the AA customers with particular issues with that vendor to start posting, so armchair do-gooders can try and bring them to justice as well? You can take solace in the fact that you deserve a good slap on the back for bringing such things to light if you want. But if youre going to be truely engaged in this activity, why not be fair and take off on witch hunts against all vendors... There isnt a vendor Ive ever known that is totally immune from all criticism... nobody's perfect... So lets not apply the screws in such a differential fashion. Its really not fair, nor objective.

That's all fine, but it's a big no-no for a tuner to get software, throw it on a car and then send it to the owner without testing it. They had it for several months, why not try it out for an hour or so and make sure they were delivering a car that was safe to drive?

That's all fine, but it's a big no-no for a tuner to get software, throw it on a car and then send it to the owner without testing it. They had it for several months, why not try it out for an hour or so and make sure they were delivering a car that was safe to drive?

There is much more than that believe me, its not what it seems. If you like you can p.m me.:)

George,

I spent the time to write this thread so there is no *other versions* since what I wrote is what happened (end results along the timeline) without speculations or every single details that do not have place in this thread.

If you could, please respect that by not spreading other versions. Because as you know already, one speculation results in 10 others behind the scene. I kind of know what you want to say about that software...but let's leave it that. :)

George,

I spent the time to write this thread so there is no *other versions* since what I wrote is what happened (end results along the timeline) without speculations or every single details that do not have place in this thread.

If you could, please respect that by not spreading other versions. Because as you know already, one speculation results in 10 others behind the scene. I kind of know what you want to say about that software...but let's leave it that. :)

Consider it done. :)

Paul,

It looks like you are determined not to let this die. Reread the threads and you will see (1) that I was not the only one questioning why the magazine tuner car had to go to another tuner for tuning and (2) that I am not the only one interested in learning about dyno variables and their effects.

Not all of us accept everything presented to us in life at face value, especially when it doesn't add up. Some of us question and learn. Now, where were those windmills you were referring to? You seemed to see them, but I couldn't find any.

Philip Bradley

What Im really questioning, Philip, is this vendetta you seem to have embarked on, wrt ICS... The article was what it was...Do you think this is the proper forum for you to go off, waving at windmills, hell bent on exposing what you perceive to be some kind of impropriety? I personally do not feel this is the place for that... What next.. Do you want all the AA customers with particular issues with that vendor to start posting, so armchair do-gooders can try and bring them to justice as well? You can take solace in the fact that you deserve a good slap on the back for bringing such things to light if you want. But if youre going to be truely engaged in this activity, why not be fair and take off on witch hunts against all vendors... There isnt a vendor Ive ever known that is totally immune from all criticism... nobody's perfect... So lets not apply the screws in such a differential fashion. Its really not fair, nor objective.

I have no idea what this means ... or why it has been posted?

I have no idea what this means ... or why it has been posted?

There have been a couple of threads where people were asking questions about what happened with my car (since it's been featured in a magazine). Not to mention many speculations I heard from many directions. So I was just trying to answer all of questions in one in a way.

this thread is quite vague. i have no understanding at all what you are trying to say.

HUh?

Sometimes, in business, its best to leave the details of the transaction concerning the exact nature of all the details, arrangements made, etc, private between the customer and the supplier.

Sometimes, in business, its best to leave the details of the transaction concerning the exact nature of all the details, arrangements made, etc, private between the customer and the supplier.

I agree...but that other times, whole truth serves the community right. I hope all people who made an inquiry read this thread already.

I agree...but that other times, whole truth serves the community right. I hope all people who made an inquiry read this thread already.

I'm not sure if you had a bad experience with ICS or AA or whoever... but I wish more people came out and reported their "bad" experiences with vendors. I mean, we all aren't perfect and people do make mistakes, but does that mean they shouldn't be held accountable? Everyone who has "invested" into FI equipment knows that this stuff isn't anywhere near cheap, don't we owe it to the community to report both good and bad experiences?

I agree...but that other times, whole truth serves the community right. .

It might, but i think more likley is what happened here. A vendor is trying to please the customer, and the customer hopefully knows enough to behave in such a way as to get the best from the vendor. And somewhere in there, hopefully, a marriage is made. But add to that all the complexities involved with the vendor not just having to please the customer, but the entire BF community, it really places alot of undue pressure on the situation which by all rights, should be absent from the client-customer relationship, which by nature, is inherantly a private relationship.

I'm not sure if you had a bad experience with ICS or AA or whoever... but I wish more people came out and reported their "bad" experiences with vendors. I mean, we all aren't perfect and people do make mistakes, but does that mean they shouldn't be held accountable? Everyone who has "invested" into FI equipment knows that this stuff isn't anywhere near cheap, don't we owe it to the community to report both good and bad experiences?

the bad experiences usually get swept under "the rug" i know it did when i reported my issues back in january.

its all very vague. :confused

the bad experiences usually get swept under "the rug" i know it did when i reported my issues back in january.

My point exactly. I'm not trying to call anyone out here, that isn't my intention. Its just sad that perspective FI customers are vunerable because some people won't come forth with the truth..

It might, but i think more likley is what happened here. A vendor is trying to please the customer, and the customer hopefully knows enough to behave in such a way as to get the best from the vendor. And somewhere in there, hopefully, a marriage is made. But add to that all the complexities involved with the vendor not just having to please the customer, but the entire BF community, it really places alot of undue pressure on the situation which by all rights, should be absent from the client-customer relationship, which by nature, is inherantly a private relationship.
Paul have you got a vested interest in this matter or are you just commenting in general?

when most critical efforts are aimed primarily in one direction, its a vendetta. Are you really claiming ICS is the only place where you feel compelled to 'question and learn'? The only place where you find that things 'dont add up'? IF not, then to be fair, shouldnt you be pointing fingers in other directions too? Its youre overzealousness to attack ics which is the giveaway.

It might, but i think more likley is what happened here. A vendor is trying to please the customer, and the customer hopefully knows enough to behave in such a way as to get the best from the vendor. And somewhere in there, hopefully, a marriage is made. But add to that all the complexities involved with the vendor not just having to please the customer, but the entire BF community, it really places alot of undue pressure on the situation which by all rights, should be absent from the client-customer relationship, which by nature, is inherantly a private relationship.

Paul, I respect your opinion. But what you think you know about this situation, it is just scratching the surface, trust me on this. So I think it would be best to leave it at where I left it, with overall results on a time line to answer people who asked about how ICS and AA worked together to get my car finished. :)

Paul, I respect your opinion. But what you think you know about this situation, it is just scratching the surface, trust me on this. So I think it would be best to leave it at where I left it, with overall results on a time line to answer people who asked about how ICS and AA worked together to get my car finished. :)

Youre missing my point.. I dont know anything about your situation.. its YOUR situation.. reread what I said. I dont think its anybody's business cept the parties involved.. this is business. Kissing and telling is not a good practice.. I am leaving it where you left it. .its the others that are venturing hypotheses about what 'really happened' and all that crap that prompted me to state I think opening this whole essentially private matter up to public scrutiny was a big mistake... If after all this you can deny that, then you and I are from different worlds I guess.


>>Paul have you got a vested interest in this matter or are you just commenting in general?<<

Kenny, Im only speaking on the most general of terms.. Nothing specific wrt this case whatsoever.

Youre missing my point.. I dont know anything about your situation.. its YOUR situation.. reread what I said. I dont think its anybody's business cept the parties involved.. this is business. Kissing and telling is not a good practice.. I am leaving it where you left it. .its the others that are venturing hypotheses about what 'really happened' and all that crap that prompted me to state I think opening this whole essentially private matter up to public scrutiny was a big mistake... If after all this you can deny that, then you and I are from different worlds I guess.


>>Paul have you got a vested interest in this matter or are you just commenting in general?<<

Kenny, Im only speaking on the most general of terms.. Nothing specific wrt this case whatsoever.

Paul, no matter how you try to make it sound, you do know that you sound like someone who sees things in ICS way and no other way. This is why I mentioned that you would probably want to leave this alone. But if you are neutral, feel free to join the discussion. :)

Opening this thread is no mistake. It gives history of how my car went to AA to get it tuned which answers the question of many, many, people from last couple of days here without going into every emails/phone calls/and $$ exchanged in the process.

I could have just put it under the rug as you indirectly suggested but I chose the other way by telling the truth of what happened.

>>Paul, no matter how you try to make it sound, you do know that you sound like someone who sees things in ICS way and no other way<<

you just dont get it.. business relationships are private matters... pacts between the customer and the supplier. Thats all ive been expressing. for you to glean some kind of imagined support for one party or another in this is fantasy. Its not about that. Since you seem to be happy with the way you were treated by your vendors here, Im certainly not about to trump you, and say somebody was right and somebody was wrong.. But your threads have been torn apart by blame mongers and so forth, and its for that reason Ive said what I did...

>>Paul, no matter how you try to make it sound, you do know that you sound like someone who sees things in ICS way and no other way<<

you just dont get it.. business relationships are private matters... pacts between the customer and the supplier. Thats all ive been expressing. for you to glean some kind of imagined support for one party or the other in this is fantasy. YOur threads have been torn apart by blame mongers and so forth, and its for that reason Ive said what I did...

Dude, really...you should talk to George about this. Believe me, from where I am standing, you are the only one here accusing me for anything. Other people are just reading the thread as it said. Whatever they can make out of it is up to them. I can't do anything with people's imaginations.

My thread laid out facts without going into details that may mislead anyone in the process.

Besides, you know very well that packts you are talking about could mislead future FI junkies. Obviously you have not had *horrific* incident to understand this and how one might want to contribute by letting out more information as possible when needed.

What a Stupid Thread:rolleyes
All this side stepping...political correct BS....If something happened and its settled leave it alone...why even post this garbage....it just arouses interest in the negative. Or is the around about attempt for the whole story to come out....without you stating exactly what happened.

I know I'm new to bmw FI but isn't ICS a tuning company? Why are they using AAtuninng to tune customers cars? Please explain? Please apologize for my ignorance.

What a Stupid Thread:rolleyes
All this side stepping...political correct BS....If something happened and its settled leave it alone...why even post this garbage....it just arouses interest in the negative. Or is the around about attempt for the whole story to come out....without you stating exactly what happened.

Actually, if you read the thread, it's the truth of what happened. It's people like you who seem to be interested in dirt digging that arouses interest in the negative.

If you just caught up, there have been many people asking why my car made its way to AA, so rather than answering emails, PMs, AIMs, & messangers, I just wrote a thread.

If you expected dirt from this thread, I don't think you will find it here because it is not about that. Sorry to let you down. :rolleyes

Both threads merged per Bimmerpwr's request

Much appreciated, Jason. :)

There have been a couple of threads where people were asking questions about what happened with my car (since it's been featured in a magazine). Not to mention many speculations I heard from many directions. So I was just trying to answer all of questions in one in a way.

SO HOW DOES YOUR CAR RUN TODAY ?

In comparison, it drove well when ICS delivered the car early this year.

Now without MAF sensor and 3 more psi on tap, it is much more lively. Power pick up is cleaner and more precise, throttle response feels better, and AFR seems more spot on everytime I press the go pedal.

I will have to put the car through a lot more test drives and put on some miles to give my full impression but so far so good. :)

there was U2, and Blondie, and music still on MTV...

...back when weeeeed was grass

In comparison, it drove well when ICS delivered the car early this year.

Now without MAF sensor and 3 more psi on tap, it is much more lively. Power pick up is cleaner and more precise, throttle response feels better, and AFR seems more spot on everytime I press the go pedal.

I will have to put the car through a lot more test drives and put on some miles to give my full impression but so far so good. :)

So you are running a MAP system that runs off of the vacumm somehow ? Excuse me I am just learning this option and am curious...Glad the car is running well....:)

I did not know it has 3 more psi of boost in addition to the less restrictive MAP based speed density tune. See how much we have learned by opening up the subject for discussion! Which brings me to the question below -- but this time I won't name any of the tuner shops involved to protect the business relationships at issue:

With the improved, less restrictive tune and 3 psi more boost, I would have guessed your rwhp would have risen from the 533 rwhp posted by the first tuner, which shall go unamed to protect the business relationships at issue, to over 600 rwhp. Instead, it went down to 510 rwhp after the second tuner, which shall go unamed to protect the business relationships at issue, retuned the car with the less restrictive MAP system and added 3 psi boost. What do you think happened?

Philip Bradley

So you are running a MAP system that runs off of the vacumm somehow ? Excuse me I am just learning this option and am curious...Glad the car is running well....:)

Thanks, it is running AA version of Alpha N setup. I found this article to be informative.

http://www.bayareamotorsport.com/alphan.html

I did not know it has 3 more psi of boost in addition to the less restrictive MAP based speed density tune. See how much we have learned by opening up the subject for discussion! Which brings me to the question below -- but this time I won't name any of the tuner shops involved to protect the business relationships at issue:

With the improved, less restrictive tune and 3 psi more boost, I would have guessed your rwhp would have risen from the 533 rwhp posted by the first tuner, which shall go unamed to protect the business relationships at issue, to over 600 rwhp. Instead, it went down to 510 rwhp after the second tuner, which shall go unamed to protect the business relationships at issue, retuned the car with the less restrictive MAP system and added 3 psi boost. What do you think happened?

Philip Bradley

Philip, I am not into camps and such and I for one think you bought up some legitimate questions and concerns before. But your post above just made me chuckle (not by the content but the way you wrote it!). :D

Anyways, one thing that I know, my car feels definitely stronger than when it had 533 rwhp. It is probably due to more boost coming in sooner, I would imagine.

As for why there are different numbers. As you know very well, dynos vary from one to another, even if they are SAE scaled. Maybe I will make my way up to ICS and measure the output again. One thing I know, my aftercooler setup is very sensitive to heat. Since my front mounted aftercooler heat exchanger does not have fan to pull in fresh air, in hot weather, the whole intake can get pretty hot and very prone to heat soak unless the car is moving.

On the other hand, when the weather is cold, (when 533 rwhp was measured at ICS), this intake can get cold to touch, and we are talking *cold*. And it takes a while for it to get warm (not even hot), more resistant to heat soak, I should say. I do not know how much of this could have played difference, to be honest with you.

But I do feel that, if there is a clone of my car from this year's january (with 533 rwhp), and if my current car can race against it, current setup should walk away, in my opinion. So to me, 510 rwhp Vs 533 rwhp on difference dynos do not matter too much. :)

Thanks, it is running AA version of Alpha N setup. I found this article to be informative.

http://www.bayareamotorsport.com/alphan.html

Thanks for the link...:)