my saga continues. i was replacing my injectors and was down to the last one, for the #2 cylinder closest to the front of the car. the injector broke in two, and the bottom half is still in the engine. all i have in my hand is the nut and the threaded part of the injector is still in it. :(

i haven't sprayed it with wd40 or anything. the rubber was breaking up with i tried to pry it off from the edges.

the only other thought i have is that i may have to take the head off. that's pretty radical, so i thought i'd hold back first until you guys chimed in.

any suggestions would be appreciated. thanks in advance.

Actually taking the head off is pretty easy IMO I just replaced mine but my engine was out, I am sure you could do it with the engine in too

Since you're replacing the injector, you can drill into it about an inch or so and tap it, then thread a bolt into it for leverage.

Or try one of those cis injector removal tools, there are some for sale on ebay right now.

no real need to pull the head - I'll take a closer look at mine today and get back to you.

Dang thats bad luck!:eek: Is there any lip at all you can grab onto to pull it out, or is it all down below the head? You just might have to pull it, but I like the idea of drilling it out. Try that.

Joh

Thanks for the replies, guys.

The remaining part of the injector tops out at the base of the hole, almost flush with the rubber around it. Hence, no lip to grab onto.

I've thought about drilling too but was worried about introducing material into the cylinder head. If material falls into the cylinder head, then I'd have to remove the head to clean out the cylinder.

I've also thought about scraping the rubber off since it was dry and brittle to begin with.

Josh, is this the tool you were mentioning? link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kent-Moore-Injector-Tube-Removal-Tool-J45910_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43998QQihZ015QQi temZ250031365608QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)

Just trying not pull my hair out right now.

OK took a look at an extra injector and my extra motor:

You do not need to pull the head, that will get you no where you need to go.

1st bring that clynder to top dead center both valves closed - you can do this by pulling off the valve cover and looking at the cam while pulling or pushing on the fan belt. This is how I turn the motor when adjusting valves.

2nd try the drilling NOTE I would try to use a sheet metal screw and let it self tap and pull on with pliers.

OK if this does not work - take off the intake manifold and you should be able to push the injector out with needle nose pliers or a screw driver, if the injector pushed into the head when drilling it then you should be able to get it out through the intake runner in the head. The injector piece still in the head should be about 1 1/4" long or so.

The injector on 80 to 83 motors is pointing at the intake valve and can be easily touched through the intake runner in the head.

Hope this helps - good luck with the drilling, do not push very hard with the drill or you will push the injector into the intake runner.

OLDMAN - thanks for the suggestion. I'll do exactly that tonight. And thanks for wishing me luck.

Best,
FS

your welcome
added note be carefull with the rubber gasket - you do not want pieces of it down in the hole as well as drilling chips.

As long as you don't drill completely through the injector you won't get shavings into the intake port. I would put the motor at TDC in case you do, and only pull the manifold as a last resort if that does happen. I would use a bic pen taped to a shop vac before I pulled the manifold though.

This is the tool I refering to, but it probably won't work unless you have a bolt head to grab on to: cis injector tool (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CIS-Injector-Puller-Tool-VW-Volkswagen-Tools_W0QQitemZ4568020990QQihZ002QQcategoryZ43998Q QssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

How about epoxy a bolt or a piece of wire to the injector :dunno

How about epoxy a bolt or a piece of wire to the injector :dunno

Thanks for the link to the tool Josh. Good one to have regardless.

CJ, what epoxy would give that kind of resistance? I'll look into that as well.

So, TDC for that cylinder 1st before anything goes.

I'll let you guys know how it turns out tomorrow.

Any type really, just get a 2 part, stick a wire in there with a little coil on the bottom to act as bite/leverage.

It was just a suggestion I havnt done this or know anyone who has.

Okaaaay, didn't get anything done last night as the boss wanted some quality time. She's already calling the car a "mistress". I'm probably not the only one with this going on. But I'm smiling as I write this so I'm not as bummed as I was yesterday.

Anyway, here's a pic of what I'm dealing with, so we don't have to use our imagination:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/fullswing/Blue%20-%20E21%20Engine%20Bay/20060925a.jpg

It's not as clean as the usual OCD-owned engine but I haven't taken it out or cleaned it just yet. I'll do it after I get it running reliably. Maybe tonight's the night I can get this done...

Your screwd:evil2

I vote for the drilling. Good luck with it, mang!
John

Your screwd:evil2

I vote for the drilling. Good luck with it, mang!
John

yes i am... and i'm not talking about the car either... "quality time", baby... :)

Did You Get It Out????

Did You Get It Out????

Probably not, but I bet he put it in!! Quality time.... :devillook

try and easy-out, you can get small ones - perhaps even small enough to fit inside the hole thats already there.
or you can enlarge the hole and try a bigger one.

It's still in... the injector that is. It's been quality time week as her birthday was last Wednesday... and I'm not complaining, baby. Not one bit ;)

Having thought things over, I'm replacing all my hoses... vacuum and water hoses, including the intake boot b/w the intake manifold and the air flow meter.

SO... I'll be taking off the intake manifold and will get the injector from there... It'll give me a chance to tidy things up too.

See you next time... same bat time, same bat channel!

Interested in a cleaned and painted intake? Looks like this one:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f344/waferman/Almost%20Done/DSCF0107.jpg
$25 and u pay shipping?

Its garage art right now and I'll never use it...
John

OT threadjack: John, what did you use for heat sheilding on the firewall?

Interested in a cleaned and painted intake? Looks like this one:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f344/waferman/Almost%20Done/DSCF0107.jpg
$25 and u pay shipping?

Its garage art right now and I'll never use it...
John

How much to 91320?

OT threadjack: John, what did you use for heat sheilding on the firewall?

At the risk of heavy dis-approval from the engineering types here, I will tell you..CJ might even recognise it as I got it at Home Depot. They sell this cheapish thermal barrier, meant to help deaden sound (a little) and reflect heat. Its basically plastic bubble wrap with foil on each side:rolleyes I bought metal tape and bound the edges once cut and patterened. I knew it would work for directly behind the engine, but over the header and going underneith I was worried it would melt. To my relief it hasnt yet! It doesnt get hot in the cabin either or my wife would complain. More than usual. :D

John

How much to 91320?

Now you are going to make me use my brain. :shifty I will try and figure out how much it weighs and stuff and let you know over the weekend- I work tomorrow. In the meantime you can get a ball park idea by going to fed ex or the shipper of your choice and guestimate the dimentions for the box and figure on about 20-25lbs, with a little packing and all. I'll PM you by monday- im off untill tuesday.

Cheers,
John

okaaaaaaaaaaay... removing the intake manifold has been fun so far... until i got to the bottom nuts of the intake runners... how the hell can i get to them?????

Unless you got some "fancy" tools, you have to take the rubber boot off, which is a royal pain in that ass. I've taken enough intakes on and off and that's what you gotta do.

nothing fancy about my tools... (smirk)... but it sure darn works :)

okay then, off with the rubber boot.

A long extension usually helps on a socket but I know that the underside is really tight to the runners, you might have to wrench a couple of them.

A swivel on your extention before the socket will help also. :)

Have fun!
John

Oooooooooooookkaaaaaaaaaaaay....

Now tell me, who had the bright idea of passing the frickin wiring harness throught the intake runners???????? C'mon, spill it out..... @#$%^&*)*(@$^ :mad

Sigh...

Good learning experience though (that's me, trying to be an optimist)...

Gotta stop all my OCD tendencies... or else I'll be taking out my 100 year supply of cotton swabs....

Finally got the intake manifold out... (pic taken by my happy wifey ;) )...
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/fullswing/Blue%20-%20E21%20Engine%20Bay/DSC00030.jpg

There has got to be an easier way than routing so many wires between the intake runners... I'll figure that out later...

Hmm... and why did I do this again??? Oh yeah, that stupid injector:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/fullswing/Blue%20-%20E21%20Engine%20Bay/DSC00033.jpg

There's the sucka! I can see her in my sights, captain!

Among other things to clean... (yecch):
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/fullswing/Blue%20-%20E21%20Engine%20Bay/DSC00013.jpg

So I suppose that injector breaking was a blessing in disguise... it was one heck of a costume though!

Good job, bro:cool

Your head looks really gummed up. How are you going to clean that out? I dont understand what about the harness bugged you..When I put my engine back together, I re-routed the harness so that it ALL passed under the intake runners and came out only where it needed to at the cs valve, etc. so that it is mostly hidden from view...

John

PM Sent.
-J

Gummed up it is. And here's that darned half of an injector... reminds me of an old cigarette...

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/fullswing/Blue%20-%20E21%20Engine%20Bay/DSC00001_edited.jpg

So I'm at a crossroads... because I cannot in consience put this thing back together after finding out how dirty it is inside, even if I'd like to get the car running already. Look how dirty the intake valves are... the intake manifold had crusty carbon inside... all that gunk in the valve train... maybe I'll take a poll...

P.S. The fuel injector's rubber seal is still where it was... stuck around the f.i. port, even if the injector itself is out.

clean +tune+compression test= piece of mind?

clean +tune+compression test= piece of mind?

my thoughts exactly...

however, does clean = take apart?

I would suggest for the top end, turn the cam so that the most valves are closed and use a varsol soaked rag to remove the gunk. As for the carbon and such, a wire brush and properly placed rags to protect the engine internals would be all you would need. Any more disassembly requires expensive gaskets, although if you have high mileage, replacing the head gasket might be good insurance against having to do this again to replace a head gasket and clean everything again. All you really have to do to get the head off now is unbolt the exhaust manifold, the cam sprocket---leave the chain on and tie it up. If you're ready to do that, you're almost there really!

do a head gasket while your at it. put a few cable ties through the holes in the cam sprocket around the chain to hold it in place, and take as many pics as possible so if you get stuck you can turn to them:)
if you really want to get stuck into it..pull the head apart and reseat the valves and go nuts with a die grinder(port matching ect.), just depends really how comfortable you are doing all that. by the looks of it you could have a few leaky valves anyway.
i would replace the valve stem seals, they like to smoke and make a mess to

Pull it.
By the look of things you are going to be ready for paint in the near future. pull the engine, give the head a quick rebuild,ie clean,reseat the valves and new valve steam seals. give the lower end a new nset of bigs, mains, rings, if you are carefull all this can be done with only a few gaskets being needed. paint the block. while the engine is out paint the engine bay the desired colour then slap fresh clean donk back in. This will give you a few more miles out of the motor, peace of mind that its done, and you will have a nice clean bay. If you are like some people i know this will be the only way to keep the OCD under control, you will just be unhappy and end up doing it soon any way. So do it all at the same time, much easyer than trying to do it all inplace.
:cool

At this point I would pull the head since you've done a majority of the work. My local machine shop will rebuild one for about $250.

If you are opposed to pulling the head, there are engine flushes (I like to use berryman's b12 chemtool in crankcase and fuel) that will help desolve a lot of that sludge. Just poor in before an oil change, bring up to temp and drain. I would poor in a lot, in your case. Regular use of a good fuel injector cleaner will help clean the intake ports, valves, and combustion chambers. Probably even better than b12 would be Seafoam (http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpTechGas.htm). It's pretty amazing stuff, can be used in fuel, oil, and even sucked into the intake through a vacuum hose on a running motor for a 100% concentrated cleaning of valves and chambers.

Of course none of that is as good as a rebuild and frequent oil changes thereafter to keep things clean, but it will go a long way.

Once more, thanks for the thoughtful replies.

I may have had some premonition this was going to happen. I just ordered a complete gasket set. I've been watching ebay for a rebuilt head (there's one now)...

So.............. I'll pull the engine and rebuild it.

I'll see if Barry can lend me his engine hoist. Might as well get a new cam too. I guess I'm more excited than worried at this point. Good thing I have a daily driver (my E36) plus some mechanical skills (I built a LOT of legos), haha!

I may need some handholding though as this is uncharted territory. As I am opposed to having someone else do this for me (what's the point?), the guidance of those who have rebuilt their engines (esteemed vets) will be most appreciated. A recommendation for an engine rebuild guide would help.

So, I suppose we can retire this thread and start a new one: The Rebuild, Fullswing edition.