Dear forum members,

I’m not claiming an understanding of the differences between the effective practices of small, medium, and large-scale businesses, nor do I believe I have an in-depth understanding of how these practices apply to the automotive after-market. I don’t believe the majority of customers of the after-market are really in the know, otherwise we’d be designing products and selling them competively. What I do believe is that we as dedicated customers and members of a vast community of enthusiasts, hobbyists, and just interested or even potential owners deserve service on par with, if not exceeding that given to customers of more mainstream companies.

Every year we as individuals shell out hundreds to thousands of dollars of our hard earned money to aftermarket vendors. We do it willingly. We do it lovingly for our cars, our hobbies, and our obsessions. But what worries me is that far too often when we pay for products, vendors immediately write us off as being customers. Up until you make your purchase, you are a prospect. Service is a second nature thing for a vendor to give a prospect. The problem comes when you turn over your money. You are now a customer. This is where the differences between vendors become very clear. How well the vendor continues service past the purchase can be the difference between an exciting addition and a true regret.

I’m not naming names or citing examples. I don’t have to because this sort of behavior towards customers is nearly universal. Yes, there are a few companies active today who give fanatical support to their customers, and I greatly appreciate their excellent records of service. For every one of these, however, there a dozen who fall into my view as being less than customer oriented. Though some of these companies are worse than others, you can find a thread on this board that outlines a conflict of this nature between a customer and almost any vendor. Sometimes products aren’t as advertised. Sometimes the product takes an inordinate amount of time to reach the customer, even though they managed to get all of their money to the vendor at the beginning of the transaction. Sometimes vendors do everything they can to get out of replacing or repairing defective products. And yet even worse, there are even more out there who seek nothing less than to rip of customers, preying on the uninformed.

Why do we put up with it? If I order a computer, it gets to me in the time frame I chose when paying shipping. After it gets to me, if anything breaks that was not directly my fault, they pay the cost of shipping and repairs, all with a downtime of a week or less. Again, maybe it’s just my ignorance of the industry, but if mainstream vendors can give their customers unhindered support then why cant the after-market’s vendors?

This isn’t so much in response to any one incident as it is to the cumulative offences I have seen in my short time on this and other forums. Maybe it’s just the nature of the business. Maybe it’s just the way things have always been, or at least the way they have been heading for a long time now. I don’t know, but whatever it is, I’m tired of it. I close asking a simple question: What ever happened to going the extra mile for the customer?



Mitchell Wall

Well written.


OT - you are now the last surviving member of bimmerforums to have those wheels, BTW.

I sold mine, for CSLs

My exact dilemma with Alienware.

Imagine not having your "G" key. It took me so long to type this. Now, I'm attempting to go to Google. All this is done with the head of a sewing needle.

Well written.
OT - you are now the last surviving member of bimmerforums to have those wheels, BTW.
I sold mine, for CSLs
Thanks.
I almost did the same (CSLs). I guess they make my car unique now. I just don't know if that's a good or a bad thing :stickoutt
We'll see how this goes.

Mitch,

Working currently in both sales and to some extant Customer Service at a major outdoor retailer has made me all too aware of which you speak. Luckily my company has a great return policy and therefore allows me to fulfill my beliefs that there should be no difference between a Customer and a Prospect when it comes to the level of service provided, but I wish I wasn't the only one who shared this view. My mechanic is great and stands behind all of his work but he can't provide me with everything and this is one of the things holding me back from spending money on serious mods. I work very hard for the money I put into my car and I want to know it will not let me down. The place I bought my car from (an used BMW dealer in NH, I will not mention any names) was wonderful until I handed them the payment. Then service was a bitch and things took forever. A year later my friend slammed my car into a tree and nearly totalled it. I had it towed to this same place where they let me store it and were extremely nice while they tried to convince me to take the insurance settlement and buy another car from them. Once I decided to keep my car and have it fixed it was the same story: everything took forever and cost twice what it should and they kept lying to me about things that needed work on my car. Fortunately I have now found a different mechanic who is much easier to work with but the fact remains that the parts we're installing are still coming from these aftermarket vendors...

Good luck man, I appreciate your sentement!

~Brendan

Well written post. Customer service is an issue in every industry. And the automotive aftermarket one is also filled with huge and small business. I have been fortunate enough to deal with excellent businesses so far. But that is all because of how much time I spend looking into a product and business before I make a purchase. Forums like this need to be here so that I can read about the issues people have had before with certain vendors. You have to look at ever complaint and ask yourself if that sounds like something out of the ordinary (like how my dinner order was totally messed up tonight but fine the last 10 times I ate there). If the product is not up to par. Or if the customer service is the bad part. I know I was extremely pissed about how long it took to have my car painted, almost no communication on their end and constant delays. but I received an amazingly low price and a quality job. I've also received speedy shipping and excellent over the phone service, only to receive a product that crapped out on me.

most important part of my rambling is that forums are the only way to voice an opinion. And even if the vast majority were complaints (which they are not) I would still feel fine, because when something goes right, most people don't post about it. Only when people want to warn others to avoid a problem will they post a vendor related issue. And I along with the majority of this board are probably smart enough to know that for every complaint we read there are plenty more happy customers out there. We don't need to be protected from an imbalance of negative topics if that ever arises.

There are two sides to every story ladies and gents!

Customer service went down started going down the drain once the internet, groupbuys, and Ebay was born. NO ONE pays retail anymore. Retailers are having a difficult time competing with the basement online "companies", Ebayers, grey market, and counterfeit product (see what Tein is going through?), and replica manufacturers.

Before you might make 30% or so markup on an item, and you were more than willing to spend time with the customer. Before AND after the sale. Customers were loyal. They brought in more customers. They told everyone to go to you. Customers were much more important in those days, and it was well worth the time you spend with them.

Today,I have friends that own shops and have to sell items at damn near cost to get people to come in. People STILL bitch. "I can get it for $3 less on Ebay!"

I am sure the pricing structure/profits are different in different industries...

BUT if I sell you a damn shift knob, and I am making a net profit of oh, let's say... $3 - Do you REALLY think I want to sit there, and explain for 30 minutes how to install the damn thing? Then you go home, can't figure it out, and come back to return it? LOL!We have to eat too!

I quit dealing with retail right about the time the internet became a household product. Now it's all about volume. Quantity of customers... not quality anymore. Why do you think there are companies selling POS $200 kits that are DOING WELL? I have watched many manufacturers that produced high quality components basically have to either shut down, or move their production to China.

You don't EVEN want to know all the "USA" companies already making parts there, or setting it up right now. How do I know? I am an agent that helps US companies find factories to manufacture parts overseas, after they cannot compete!

So basically, people want a REPLICA Reiger this, and a REPLICA BBS that, and all the other replica crap that hurts the real deal companies. On top of that, they only want the retailer to make 10% profit (people complain about that too), AND you want Grade A customer service? GOOD LUCK.

I want my cake and eat it too!

When you cut out the retailer, and basically go straight to a "wholesaler", you are cutting the pay of the person who would normally give you that great customer service you are looking for. You want service, pay for it!

I do pay for it. Now where is it?

I, and I think a lot of BMW enthusiasts, want parts that will last and perform up to the standards already set forth by the engineers who originally designed our cars. I try to buy genuine parts wherever possible because, in my experience, most of them work better than the replicas. I completely understand the desire to cut costs, but doing so at the expense of your personal safety makes no sense to me.

I expect customer service only where it should be given. Your right if i buy a 100$ rip off of something and want to yell about it sucking i hold my tounge because i realize i should have spent the extra money and bought the legit product from the real, good company who wants to deal with me. ex: i could have gotten a lower quality, off the shelf software kit and what i got was what i got, but instead i went with AA and threw down the extra doh. The first ECU flash i got was running a little rich and throwing CELs... what do i do? call AA. They tell me to send the ECU back and how its running better than ever. I have a custom ECU tune for my exact mods without any CELs and running stronger than i believe it could have with another lesser company. And if there was a problem with the software i dont think i would have gotten the same service that i did with AA

BenDF,

I'm not talking about small bill items. I couldn't care less about customer service for items under $200. Nor am I talking about replicas and knock-offs. What I'm talking about is the real deal companies, the larger items, $500-800 headlight packages, $800-3000 suspension packages, $3-10k turbo and supercharger packages, and things along those lines. You won't be hard pressed to go into the FI section to find stories of motors not built to the specifications the customer outlined, turbo setups from x vendor that were poorly engineered to the point of engine failure, supercharger setups from x vendor that don't show after three months of trying to get in touch with the vendor who took their thousands up front, then nearly cut off all contact with the customer. Situations where the customer's mistake was paying upfront and having good faith that the vendor would give them the same attention as, if not more than, a prospect. "I can find it cheaper on eBay" doesn't affect these companies. In ways they're offering things that very few people, if anyone else at all, can.

Mitch

Rant gets a 7.5: mostly for content. More cussing and a few angry smilies would have put you up to about 8.5.

p.s. if your problem is with a BMW dealer, then there is a secret weapon which will make any dealer quiver in their loafers: BMW North America. A good rant to BMWNA will result in some unwanted attention towards the offending dealer in most cases.

Like I said, this isn't a problem I am having with any one vendor. It's a problem I am having with the industry.

BenDF,

I'm not talking about small bill items. I couldn't care less about customer service for items under $200. Nor am I talking about replicas and knock-offs. What I'm talking about is the real deal companies, the larger items, $500-800 headlight packages, $800-3000 suspension packages, $3-10k turbo and supercharger packages, and things along those lines. You won't be hard pressed to go into the FI section to find stories of motors not built to the specifications the customer outlined, turbo setups from x vendor that were poorly engineered to the point of engine failure, supercharger setups from x vendor that don't show after three months of trying to get in touch with the vendor who took their thousands up front, then nearly cut off all contact with the customer. Situations where the customer's mistake was paying upfront and having good faith that the vendor would give them the same attention as, if not more than, a prospect. "I can find it cheaper on eBay" doesn't affect these companies. In ways they're offering things that very few people, if anyone else at all, can.

Mitch

Not THIS, I have experienced. In short, yes it sucks bad. Heard of Harman Motive? We had a motor/turbo installed, and tuned there. Big high dollar job. We went to pick up the car, it's parked outside all nice and clean.

We go inside and pay. Drive off only to find 2nd gear to be GONE. The basically fuxored a Kaaz tranny, and didn't say a damn thing about it. They took no responsibility, and didn not offer to do anything about it.

"It was fine when we dyno tuned it, and test drove the car."

SUUUUUUURE! It broke while sitting in the parking lot!

The car has sat in a garage for about a year now.... Not because we can't get another tranny, or just rebuild the Kaaz. More like we are just sickened by what happenned, and the fact that we just did not have the time/energy to take his ass to court.

I think the problem is that even the $3-$10K purchases are still small fish for companies selling such products (among a larger line). The problem is, that so many customers are actually unprofitable, and few have a positive lifetime value. Companies continually struggle to isolate those customers and cater to them.