wHAT is the best driving school that offers the most instuction for beginners that want to learn and be better in all aspects of high performance driving? I'm talking about the basics of car control and how to get to learn to manuver a car through the track .

IMNSHO, BMW CCA driving schools.

Jim

I'd add PCA & NASA to that list of schools.

IMNSHO, BMW CCA driving schools.

Jim

Agree. I have found them a bit more conservative.

car guys is also good...

car guys is also good...

New Jersey Chapter BMWCCA (www.njbmwcca.org)

Genessee Valley Chapter BMWCCA (www.gvc-bmwcca.org)

Delaware Valley Chapter BMWCCA (www.delvalbmwcca.org)

if you have some money, I highly recc.:

http://www.skipbarber.com/

bmwcca

bmw cca


fixed it for you :stickoutt

sO whats the big difference between all of them , since skip barber school is more $$ is it better than the other schools??

CCA is the way to go especially for beginners. You get a lot of time with the instructor and they are very helpful.

for beginners, CCA is great. Skip can go quite far if you want several days of intensive courses. You can tell in their website what type of classes they offer.

sO whats the big difference between all of them , since skip barber school is more $$ is it better than the other schools??

Depends on which Skip Barber school you're looking at. Any school where you are using the school's cars is gonna be multi-times more expensive than a school where you drive your own car.

Stay away from 'open track' type events when starting out. Instruction can be sketchy and you may or may not be on track with people of a similar skill set.

As far as price difference between HPDEs, it'll depend on the track, the club, and on what kind of 'freebies' are included with your entry (banquet? Polo shirt vs t-shirt? lunch included? etc)

Being BMW nuts we are obviously a little biased. But for good reason. For rookie students the BMWCCA schools can arguably be said to be the best. They typically are very well run by people who have put on many events. They emphasize safety in a way that no other club I have worked for does. It is very structured. I would send my kids to a BMW school without hesitation. Once you get a few schools under your belt then look into the other options that are available. I have worked as an instructor for BMWCCA, PCA, NASA, Mazda Club, and the Audi Club. PCA around here is a little looser run and I get the most track time there. NASA is my favorite to run with socially and they have the race groups running which is fun to watch. But their track time is a little less than some of the others.

Pick a BMW club nearby sign up and have fun.

RB

If you're serious about your driving, Skip Barber. Don't touch the club retards with a 40-foot pole.



But if you wish to become one of said club idiots, then save yourself the money.

If you're serious about your driving, Skip Barber. Don't touch the club retards with a 40-foot pole.



But if you wish to become one of said club idiots, then save yourself the money.

So who does your driver education?

You do realize that there are a number of instructors for BMW CCA that are accomplished racers, right?

As for the OP going to Skippy....I'd do a couple of CCA or NASA schools, get the basics down, and then try Skippy. I mean, why go there and pay all that cash to learn about basic things like "the line"? You'll pull more from the experience if you already know that stuff when you get there.

So who does your driver education?

The laws of physics? :confused

You do realize that there are a number of instructors for BMW CCA that are accomplished racers, right?

I have no real experience with BMW CCA; just heard stories. But I do have plenty of experience with NASA, and I guess I lumped the BMW club stuff into the same category.


As for the OP going to Skippy....I'd do a couple of CCA or NASA schools, get the basics down, and then try Skippy. I mean, why go there and pay all that cash to learn about basic things like "the line"? You'll pull more from the experience if you already know that stuff when you get there.

Agree; the club stuff would be useful for some basics if you're really on a budget. BUT, even more budget-friendly than that, (and you'll learn way more about 'the line' and car control), is karting. Get yourself a cheap but decent 100cc kart, and get yourself quick & comfortable in that. Then go to Skip.

The laws of physics? :confused


I know it sounds rather obvious but not everyone wants to understand the laws of physics. These pple rather leave the job to someone else to disseminate the information in the most layman terms possible. I observe that some driving schools teach a list of "dos and don'ts" or rather a lists of "if and else" statements. Nothing wrong with that but for me, I can't stand it when I don't understand the theory behind it.

The real physics are left to those who want to pursue more. I am writing this from a personal experience having gone from 100% CCA events to 100% non-CCA events. For example, I wanted to know what constitutes an over/understeer not just verbally but mathematically. Hence I began picking up books on car dynamics, gathering real-world tips from race car drivers and trying out different lines and braking zones by myself. This approach has been extremely rewarding.

If you're serious about your driving, Skip Barber. Don't touch the club retards with a 40-foot pole.



But if you wish to become one of said club idiots, then save yourself the money.


:rolleyes :rolleyes

Guys... give the man facts not your assumptions. From personal experience I can tell you about several schools/training programs.

1.Skip Barber 2-day Driving school
Fun, Informative, in 1999 $1000, drive their cars, their tires, their insurance, very knowledgable instructors (best I've had).
2. Skip Barber 3-day Race school, even more fun, their equipment and insurance, great track, lots of instruction, encourage you to push and find out where limits are. In 2005 3000-600(discount)=2400. Well worth every penny.
3. Skip Barber 2-day Advanced race School. More, more, more of everything. Totally Awesome fun. They have a deductible you pay up to 5k if you trash a car. in 2006 about $2200.
4. BMW CCA schools, your car your tires, insurance....if it will cover, most will not, some will. Some outstanding instructors, some not so hot. THey push safe, safe safe, so it depends on how you feel. You will learn alot and you will enjoy yourself. Cost medium, usually about $300 per day $600 for weekend, depends on track etc, all said and done it will cost you $1000 for the weekend. (I know some guys will come on and say it does't cost that much but it does if you honestly add it all up.) You should definitly go to one and do some ride alongs. Cost your gas to get there. Just Do It.
5. Other Regional clubs schools: TCRA-Great group of guys, very helpful, your car and equipment, each track they run at, cheap $290 for the weekend. Total cost $600-700. Former and current racers teach.

Conclusion you will need to go see some groups. Show up and meet the folks, see if you like them. Each experience is unique and fulfilling to different individuals. That is what makes the world go around. Talk to your buddies. Definitely go to a BMW CCA event and talk to folks and sit in on the meetings. do a ride along. If you can afford it do Skip Barber or Russell, etc.
Just Go Do It!!! You will get hooked!

I also agree that Karting is awesome!

The laws of physics? :confused

That form of instruction must come with some costly/painful lessons! :stickoutt

1.Skip Barber 2-day Driving school
Fun, Informative, in 1999 $1000, drive their cars, their tires, their insurance, very knowledgable instructors (best I've had).

I agree with your post. I'll say that the only thing I wouldn't advise him to do is what you posted in the excerpt I quoted above.

I really feel that you can get the same (or nearly the same) beginner-type instruction from CCA for a lot less money....from the Skippy site it looks like this program is now $1,700+.

in some of Skip's advance course, you get to drive some pimped out powerful cars :eek:

That form of instruction must come with some costly/painful lessons! :stickoutt

True, but it beats (literally) the bad habits out of you :)



Karting is a good place to start because it ingrains in you a fundamental understanding of what needs to be done to get everything out of the car. The dynamics of karts don't necessarily apply to cars, but for everything else, they're great.

I am simply relating my experiences. He needs to listen, learn and decide for himself. As you'll notice my strongest recommendation is go visit a BMW CCA event. Everybody is different. I have seen my friends get started in many different ways.

Several of my friends began their track hobby at 1 or 2-day SB driving schools and loved it. (Personally I believe all kids should do a 1-day SB driving school or the BMW CCA Teen Street Survival School before a license is issued.) If you have already done any of the other types of training, than I would not recommend it, unless you just want to drive a fun Viper and melt someone elses rubber! Cheers!

See post about Boston Chapter event at the Glenn end of this month.

So who does your driver education?

You do realize that there are a number of instructors for BMW CCA that are accomplished racers, right?

As for the OP going to Skippy....I'd do a couple of CCA or NASA schools, get the basics down, and then try Skippy. I mean, why go there and pay all that cash to learn about basic things like "the line"? You'll pull more from the experience if you already know that stuff when you get there.

Very good post, listen to this guy. That is the exact approach im taking myself. And it makes great sense, go take a few BMWCCA classes for fairly cheap, get the basics down and when you do shell out a few thousands for skip barber you will only have to worry about absorbing the more advanced skills, and your learning experience will be superior.

thanks for all of your input and hopefully I'll go to bmw cca because I think its a plus that I get to use my own car that way on the street I'll feel safer and I will be able to see the cars limits.

Don't touch the club retards with a 40-foot pole.

Given that I suspect more than half of the track drivers on this board have been BMWCCA or other club students or instructors, you might want to pass on that VP of Sales job offer. ;)

thanks for all of your input and hopefully I'll go to bmw cca because I think its a plus that I get to use my own car that way on the street I'll feel safer and I will be able to see the cars limits.

If you want to find the limits of your car very quickly and safely then start autocrossing the car. Track events are fun but it will be a long time (if ever) before you feel comfortable driving the car at the limit on track.

If you spin autocrossing no problem. If you spin on track bad things can happen.

Given that I suspect more than half of the track drivers on this board have been BMWCCA or other club students or instructors, you might want to pass on that VP of Sales job offer. ;)


And look at how far they've made it.... ;)

BMW CCA schools are really a good deal.

The instructor rides along until they feel comfortable that you understand the line, brake points and techniques, car rotation and throttle control. Some novis students don't get signed off at all. The class room usually takes two hours of your day to discuss turn in points, apex, safety, how to handle an off track experiance (we all have them), track awareness(eyes up, mirrors, flag stands), talk about tire preassures, and safe overtaking of you or other cars. Any off track is discussed as a learning experiance for the group in the most constructive way possible.

Not everyone is the same skill level or learns at the same rate. The one on one instruction really helps you to seek your level. The instructors evaluate you after each session and track day so you can be placed in faster run groups as your skill progresses. The driving school keeps a log on each driver for future refrence. This helps the next instructor know how you progressed in your last school.

The most important things are you learn about yourself, your car, make new friends, and have fun. Learn to drive your car as it is and then decide if you need modifications, a new car, or a different organization to drive with.

Personally I do one or two days a year with BMW CCA as a refresher then go and drive with other groups where I feel comfortable.

The racing schools are a very good place to learn more advanced driving and more powerful cars. These will let you know if it is time for more power or a new car.

Your first day you might not finish out the day due to all the new things comming at you and the mental strain from doing so many things at high speeds. You just get tired on that first day and have a great time talking about it.

Good luck and enjoy!

If I said to start with Mavis Beacon, would anyone get the joke?

Back OT: There is something to be said for learning over a period of time. If a racing license is the ultimate goal, I know that I feel safer on the track with people who have multiple HPDE's over the course of a year or so (who would then go on to racing school) than with the person who gets on a track for the first time and leaves 3 days later with a SCCA Provisional racing license.

On the other hand, to jump into "spirited" driving and not have to worry about equipment, etc. the Skip Barber type schools are a great way to go.