Ok, so I bought some used RA-1's(235/40/17) that looked like this newly used:
http://i7.tinypic.com/2198ndj.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/2198nis.jpg
They looked to be 3-4/32 when I got them, but now after 2 DE's(4 days, 4 25 minute sessions/day) they look like this.
http://i4.tinypic.com/2pt9kxd.jpg
http://i6.tinypic.com/2u6hbbm.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/2els5li.jpg
http://i5.tinypic.com/29msi7s.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/4gjgj2c.jpg
As you can see 2 still have some tread left, ones close to cording, the other has corded. I probably didn't rotate them enough for maximum life but whatever. I was talking to someone with an e36 m3 that I know and he got a used set that looked similiar(same size) and he's got 4 DE's out of them so far and will probably get another 2 or 3 out of them. That's 3 times the wear!

So what am I doing wrong? I don't think I'm overdriving the car or scrubbing off speed with the tires, but judge for yourself( http://videos.caught-on-video.com/video/wm/033f11d8-f694-4a5e-8a47-98320117b920.htm ). I was running 40psi hot, but that was after a cool down lap. Is it my alignment? I had the car street aligned and just max out the front camber plates camber when I go to the track. I got them used from a race team, maybe they use a different compound RA-1? Something else?

Thanks everyone,
Greg.

EDIT-If the pics aren't working try refreshing

What wheel position was the corded tire used on?

What wheel position was the corded tire used on?
Hmm, it was one of the rears, I can't remember driver or passenger. But like I said I rotated the tires around the car several times, probably not enough though.

Told ya, Greg, going R-comps is like digging a big hole in your wallet. Start scavenging for more tires!

Also, you can't compare tire wear with anothe driver/car. Different driver, different car, different wear rate. The other thing you can look at is alignment settings and tire temp profile.

Told ya, Greg, going R-comps is like digging a big hole in your wallet. Start scavenging for more tires!

Also, you can't compare tire wear with anothe driver/car. Different driver, different car, different wear rate. The other thing you can look at is alignment settings and tire temp profile.
I already have scavenged, 8 more RA-1's are on the way, giving me a grand total of 24 tires :alright . Half of those need to be thrown out though :shifty

But 3 times the wear is a huge difference. His car weights about the same as mine and we're pretty close to each other on the track. I beleive he runs 40 hot too, maybe a tad less, I forgot. I'm thinking I have way too much toe out in the front, not sure about the rear really. I've been meaning to get a pyrometer, I'll try to get one before the next DE(end of month).

I bought a new set of un-shaven RA-1's this year. I've, only been able to put 1 DE (MSR Houston) on them so far (1 auto-x also). I've only seen a little wear on the RR from MSR. I was cooking that tire for several laps, but no "eye-ball" damage like your pics. Got greasy for a few laps but never let go.

Overall, I was impressed with them. Track was wet that saturday morning and the grip was there.

track dried up and it was go-time Sat afternoon and all day Sunday

As others have said though , check your alignement. My wear seems good for another several DE's (8-10).

BTW, I was running 37-40 hot (40 was RR)

I used an unshaved set for the first time about a month ago. Bone stock E36M3.
They would build pressure (5-8) and get greasy if the cold inflation pressure was above 30psi.
They were better at at 35psi hot, suggested by pyrometer.

I did not shave them as rain is a factor.

m

Hmm, it was one of the rears, I can't remember driver or passenger. But like I said I rotated the tires around the car several times, probably not enough though.

I forgot to ask, is that the inside or outside edge? With your camber plates set in the max camber position for a DE what is the camber and toe?

Greg. several things, in no particular order:

=40 psi hot after a cool down lap is too high
=I recommend a pyrometer, as we discussed, rather than just going on pressures
=MSR's new section is EXTREMELY abrasive on tires, I have discovered
=RA1's are the same compound, but the team that had yours initially may have broken them in differently (although RA1's are pretty foolproof usually)
=You are driving a lot faster than at the BMW club event a month earlier when I rode with you, in large part because you are using 2nd gear in those 3 places I recommended now; using 2nd, I have found, puts a lot more wear on tires on the new section
=Your friend in the E36 may not be using 2nd gear, and is likely not driving as hard as you are
=For comparison, my RA1's were new (but shaved) at the BMW club event a month ago...and I corded 3 of 4 on this past Sunday when you were chasing me; this is a lot faster wear than I am used to, but then again, I usually get a lot more wear out of them when I mix in weekenda at TWS (very low tire wear) and even the original MSR course (only moderate tire wear).

I'd say there is at least a 3:1 difference in wear rates between fast Spec Miata drivers and beginner Spec Miata drivers, and they're all driving the same cars with the same tires on the same tracks! There are lots of techniques that result in only slightly faster lap times (throttle steering, dropping down a gear for slow corner exits, trail braking, scrubbing speed on corner entry) but drastically increase wear, especially while you're still learning.

=I recommend a pyrometer, as we discussed, rather than just going on pressures


tell me about using a pyrometer. i have been told you want pressures within 10 degrees across the outer, middle, and inside of the tire. middle tells you how to adjust the pressures, and outer/inner means more/less camber. is this correct?

=You are driving a lot faster than at the BMW club event a month earlier when I rode with you, in large part because you are using 2nd gear in those 3 places I recommended now; using 2nd, I have found, puts a lot more wear on tires on the new section
=For comparison, my RA1's were new (but shaved) at the BMW club event a month ago...and I corded 3 of 4 on this past Sunday when you were chasing me; this is a lot faster wear than I am used to
Yea, I probably am alot faster now, I'm still taking rattlesnake in third though. I've tried experimenting with 2nd through there but it just felt weird, and my 2>3 shift point sucked. Next time...

Sounds like you're getting about the same tire wear as me, so maybe nothing is wrong then. Pyrometer is definitely the next thing on the list of things to buy.

tell me about using a pyrometer. i have been told you want pressures within 10 degrees across the outer, middle, and inside of the tire. middle tells you how to adjust the pressures, and outer/inner means more/less camber. is this correct?

Yes, a 10 degree spread or less between sections is best. You MUST take temps hot. No cool down lap, just come into hot pits & git er done. Last time I did mine (on a 104 degree day on a hard-on-brakes track) my brakes were visibly smoking as I took temps. LOL.

There are many guides on what to adjust (pressures, camber, etc.) based on how the temps read. For me, I leave my camber alone & adjust pressures in 1/2 pound increments, and then I write down the resulting cold pressures when I get it nailed. Saves mucho time the next time you are on that track in that car with those types of tires.

Maybe a dumb question, but are you getting the tires rotated from side to side at about half way through the life of the tire (keeping the rotation the same)? i.e. dismounting and remounting the tires?

I race on RA1s and we do this and extend the wear life a lot as you can imagine. I drive every RA1 down to the cord before discarding.

Once you get past 4/32 you don't have to worry about direction of rotation.

cheers,

Lance Richert
#135 Pro-3

No, I never got them dismounted and swapped. Direction of rotation only matters in the rain, in the dry you can run either regardless of their tread depth. And half way through their life would be after ~1 DE. I'm not sure if the $40 at that point would even be worth it. I mean I'm sure it would help them last longer, but $40 longer? They seem to be wearing pretty evenly as is. And yes, I'm a cheap ass :D .

Must just be your driving style, and track surface. I have a set of RA-1s from last year that I just can't kill ... they have probably 20 days on them, and still have 2 grooves. Great lapping tires!

On my M5, I get the outer shoulders pretty well worn and then flip them. Of course, my car kills the outside shoulders even with 2 degrees camber but I can get pretty much a season out of them (10-12 days? maybe more). I do pay attention to how they are wearing and what track I will be driving and move them around the car based on that.

For example, Sears Point this weekend. Right front does a bit more work on that track so the best one goes on that corner but overall it seems to wear the tires pretty evenly there. Whereas at Thunderhill you kill the right front in T2 and there are lots of other left-hand corners there.

Power oversteer,:) even in just a few corners is going to accelerate tire wear, sometimes dramatically.